Here is poll 2.

Part 1: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/311507/page/1

Part 3: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/4157314/thread/311510#4157314

Combat in an MMO is just an abstraction.  There are soo many things that can and have been done, and you sum it down to 3 options(third being useless).

If I have simple combat mechanics obviously free form under most conditions.   If many things are happening at one time obviously some form of auto targeting.

______

Basically it comes down to the fact that human working memory is 5 + or - 2.   So if you have 3 things the player needs to keep track of very conciously and quickly you're probably going to lean towards a very free form combat system without targeting(IE the core mechanics of a FPSer).   If I have 7+ things that need to be kept track of you're pretty much forced as a developer to have auto targeting(After you bring in status effects, various types of energy, and allies).

Originally posted by anemo

Combat in an MMO is just an abstraction.  There are soo many things that can and have been done, and you sum it down to 3 options(third being useless).

If I have simple combat mechanics obviously free form under most conditions.   If many things are happening at one time obviously some form of auto targeting.

______

Basically it comes down to the fact that human working memory is 5 + or - 2.   So if you have 3 things the player needs to keep track of very conciously and quickly you're probably going to lean towards a very free form combat system without targeting(IE the core mechanics of a FPSer).   If I have 7+ things that need to be kept track of you're pretty much forced as a developer to have auto targeting(After you bring in status effects, various types of energy, and allies).

Well I am not sure if you like what you play or have played. You say there are so many that have been done but for one reason or another you dont play that game anymore. If there is something else you would like then comment and it will get added to the pool.

Large groups of mobs do not need auto targeting fyi, having attacks that can do multple targets within rage for a reduced amount of damage depending on how many targets are within range is perfectly sensible. It all goes with play style and wether people want the same ol, or something a bit different and challenging to a point that it will encourage people to try and learn, but not turn people away at the same time.

age of conans combat system has been my favorite style so far.

I vote manual aim. It doesn't have to be precise aiming but enough to feel like you are in control.

Originally posted by Unknown23

age of conans combat system has been my favorite style so far.

Agreed.

Originally posted by Burnt_Rabbit

Originally posted by anemo

Combat in an MMO is just an abstraction.  There are soo many things that can and have been done, and you sum it down to 3 options(third being useless).

If I have simple combat mechanics obviously free form under most conditions.   If many things are happening at one time obviously some form of auto targeting.

______

Basically it comes down to the fact that human working memory is 5 + or - 2.   So if you have 3 things the player needs to keep track of very conciously and quickly you're probably going to lean towards a very free form combat system without targeting(IE the core mechanics of a FPSer).   If I have 7+ things that need to be kept track of you're pretty much forced as a developer to have auto targeting(After you bring in status effects, various types of energy, and allies).

Well I am not sure if you like what you play or have played. You say there are so many that have been done but for one reason or another you dont play that game anymore. If there is something else you would like then comment and it will get added to the pool.

Large groups of mobs do not need auto targeting fyi, having attacks that can do multple targets within rage for a reduced amount of damage depending on how many targets are within range is perfectly sensible. It all goes with play style and wether people want the same ol, or something a bit different and challenging to a point that it will encourage people to try and learn, but not turn people away at the same time.

I'm not just talking about number of Mobs(the human mind can easily abstract away a huge number of identical things), I'm talking about what the player needs to keep track of(and how much so).

Allies, status effects, energy(mana, focus, or whatever), health, allies, conditional skills(IE if health below 50%), status effects, varity of status effects, number of mobs, variety of mobs, variety of attacks, number of available attacks.

Also area of effect spells actually are more preferable on an auto target system, because placing a greater variety of effects are more taxing on the player(unless other parts of combat are simpler).   

Pretty much the closer to an RPG your game is the less preferable to a designer it is to have it manually targeted.

It has to be free form , pressing button 1 that does 50 damage for each toe on your foot and a chance of critical for you big toe has been done over and over, if i swing  a big axe at your chest thats covered in solid steel it wont do much, However if i swing it at your hand i expect it to either come off or at the very least do some damage and maby drop your weapon.

I think your going to have your hands full asking what we really want  in a game.

I went for the WoW style, which I believe is the same as the style in most MMOs from EQ through WoW and on to Rift. I know people complain about this being done to death but I don't think it's that fact that ruins it or makes it stale. I've been playing EQ and it has sticky targetting with combat abilities, but it's fun. It's fun because you are limited to what abilities you can have access to at any one time, promoting tactics or quick changing of spells, and EQ has a variety of somewhat fluff abilities that are often necessary. In no other game have I been inconvenienced by a tank being too big, and not being able to pull in a confined dungeon, until he is shrunk by a shaman.

Modern MMOs have gone down the route of allowing players to have access to all spells and abilities at all times, and that promotes the commonly seen 1,1,1,2,3,1,1,1,2,3 that people complain so frequently about. Make players choose their abilities and you promote tactics. If you can't fit 3 on your hotbar then you can't use it, and you need to make a choice. Neither do modern MMOs have abilities that aren't there for the sole purpose of damaging an opponent or healing/buffing an ally, and there are too many of each. Modern MMOs have removed the variation. Bring back the shrinks and levitates.

I'm not a fan of the freeform combat with no hard targets, but sadly it looks like it's way ahead here. That would likely put me off a game, regardless of who has made it and how amazing it looks. I think that staleness in modern MMOs has delivered us to a point that people feel a change is necessary. I think we just need to go back to how it was. It isn't hard targetting and combat abilities that is stale, it is the lack of inventiveness by developers.

Make it a PVE (targeting) PVP (freeform) It can be done. I have been studying hero scripting and even that game engine can do it.

I would think if world PVP is in your game?, all non flagged players could target and all flagged players could freeform.

We need a hybrid system that incorporates both for the above I described.

Originally posted by jeremyjodes

Make it a PVE (targeting) PVP (freeform) It can be done. I have been studying hero scripting and even that game engine can do it.

I would think if world PVP is in your game?, all non flagged players could target and all flagged players could freeform.

We need a hybrid system that incorporates both for the above I described.

Yes PVP will be available and it will be world wide with the exception of specific areas. There will be no instanced PVP.

Originally posted by Burnt_Rabbit

Originally posted by jeremyjodes

Make it a PVE (targeting) PVP (freeform) It can be done. I have been studying hero scripting and even that game engine can do it.

I would think if world PVP is in your game?, all non flagged players could target and all flagged players could freeform.

We need a hybrid system that incorporates both for the above I described.

Yes PVP will be available and it will be world wide with the exception of specific areas. There will be no instanced PVP.

Glad to hear that there will be no instanced  PVP , there is just something about open PVP that makes it so much better, it gets your heart pumping :) 

I like AoC's combat also but i vote for free form.

This poll is bad, the categories are poor.  They should be:

1. FPS / TPS (First / Third Person Shooter and Button mashing)

2. RPG (Tab Sticky Targeting and face rolling)

3. Other (Some Sci-Fi Tech that Doesn't exist)

The FPS player who are complaining about RPG targeting don't know anything about MMO mechainics.  FPS mechaincs don't work in an MMO environment.  The data dependencies limits the number of players  to double digits (Multi Online).  FPS favopor the fastest connection and NOT the skill of the player.  In the first poll only 6% voted for FPS / TPS.  I don't want to list the names of MMOFPS that failed, becuase some one out there loved or played those failed games.  But they still have two things incommon FPS and Failed.

I find that open pvp does train the player to be aware of their surroundings, and also they learn how to scooby doo behind a tree when they see a group role through. It was always a fun aspect of the pvp games that were smart enough to leave out mini maps that showed where people are. Personally I hate that in games, give me a map yes but leave the people and animals off of it unless I have the tracking skill.

As to the pole I prefer the idea of a hybrid blend, the games today actually feel worse than the old mud's used to. I prefered the idea of being able to cast on any target on the fly by going I wana hit that one, then turn around and hack away at the thing that was in melee range to me. To modern mmo's, even the sandboxes, are all getting gummed down in the idea of these skills = this type. I loved my Dragon Realms war mage, being able to hack things to death while nuking other things and CCing the area as well as buffing myself was very difficult to manage at times. Yet, for all the speed typing it involved it was one of the most enjoyable things I ever did.

Mainly because it was a hybrid between what we now see as theme park and sandbox games. I feel bad that the modern games actually fail to grasp that hybrids arn't knew and that they can be fun.

I'd say darkfall with guns.1st with ranged 3rd person melee. !st or 3rd unarmed. or maybe global agenda.

Depends on the game. If all you do is kill kill kill all the time...i may rather have combat where i can watch tv too. I prolly wont play it either then so i dont care.

and to the "WoW style targeting/combat - 22.1%" voters...

seriously guys.. http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/4158775

I voted for free form w/o stickey targeting. I think that a mix of the 2 depending on the combat manuver would be ideal.

Sticky, simply because without it I've never seen healing that is worthwhile.  It becomes spam heals, AOE heals, and is so un-fun to play that no one does besides to heal themselves.

You could do both, but sometimes sticky targetting (Im assuming this does not mean taking control of you and moving you to face the target, as i do not enjoy that at all) is preferable.  Plus it's something a lot of people are used to and unless you design a free form system very very very well, they will want another option.

I don't think it really matters what you choose. It really depends on how well it fits within your world, and the amount of resources you have available to make it work. I have only seen 3 distinct forms of combat with variations of each.

WOW- single auto target

PSU/PSO- sticky targets and directional attacking (FPS also in PSU)

Darkfall- FPS