Open world PvP only works if the penalties are severe (IE - Permadeath).  Desipte what many people would believe, the harsher the death penalties, the less likely people are to go around attacking everything in sight - there's always a fear that you'll end up on the wrong side of a blow and "lose all your stuff".

As you reduce the penaltyo to dying, then you need to increase the restrictions to PvP.  Picture not losing anything and simply respawning 5 seconds later on an open PvP server.

The best system I saw restricted PvP to a certian level range +/- your own, but had no restrictions as to where you could attack.  You would lose all your stuff when you died... and I do mean ALL of it, no banks, no bound items or anything.  You would also recieve an exp penalty, which could put you "in exp debt" if you died too often.

Ah this is a good topic. I'd like to see an MMO that implements ffa-pvp but as above with potentially harsh penalities: You'd have to weigh the risk/reward ratio etc... it could be a great gaming experience: "Safety is on the shore; royal pearls are in the depths of the ocean."

Originally posted by Lerxst

Open world PvP only works if the penalties are severe (IE - Permadeath).  Desipte what many people would believe, the harsher the death penalties, the less likely people are to go around attacking everything in sight - there's always a fear that you'll end up on the wrong side of a blow and "lose all your stuff".

There is also the question of balance when it comes to those death penalties in a PvP setting.  Often the actual death penalty is much more severe for the 'non-aggressive' players and easily mitigated by the 'kill everyone for the evuls' crowd.

I'd like to see a game that has FFA PvP everywhere, but where PvE and PvP characters don't directly interact.

For example, consider a game where the PvP players form into factions, similar to EVE Online.  They control territory that has resources, settlements and so on.  That constitutes their empire.  The PvP players fight to defend their territory and to expand it into neighboring territories. The PvE players operate within those empires to do all the PvE stuff.  Harvesting, manufacturing, researching, etc.  That could even include fighting NPCs.

The twist is that when a PvE character spots an enemy PvP character, it will automatically run away.  Or hide.  Or cower in fear.  A PvE character is a non-combatant from the standpoint of the PvP game.  If the enemy PvP guy wants to take stuff from the enemy empire's settlements, he can do that and he'll know that the PvE guys won't bother him while he does it.  It's the job of the PvP overlords to ensure that the enemy raids fail.  All the PvE guys can do is call their PvP overlords to come over and help.

The stuff that a PvP raider could take would be anything that has been warehoused by the PvE guys.  That could be raw materials, finished goods or anything else in the PvE game that supports the PvP guys.

Oh, I guess I left that out.  The success of the PvP players is dependent on the success of the PvE guys.  If the PvE guys can operate without interruption then they can supply their PvP overlords with the equipment that they need.  Perhaps one farm raising feed for war horses can support 2 war horses.  If you have 20 PvP players who want war horses, then their empire must have 10 feed farms.  The PvE guys manufacture the gear that their PvP guys use.  Because combat breaks gear, there's a constant need for new gear.

There are issues with such a system, but I offer it only as an illustration of the sort of interaction that I'd like to see.  EVE Online could implement something like this and I'd be happy to play it.  I want to play, and I'm willing to sacrifice the ability to fight back or even to leave my empire's territory if that means that I don't have to worry about other players attacking me.

Daoc was the best PVP game i ever played. The concept of seperate pve and pvp zones is an amazingly sound one. Having 3 factions also made the game so much more fun.

In a 2 faction system you have population imbalances that there really is nothing you can do anything about. In a 3 faction system like Daoc if one faction was overpopulated, the other 2 would gang up on the overpopulated side.

FFA pvp is not that much fun for me. I like my pve to be safe and relaxing, something i do when i need a break from Pvp. Mostly its just higher level or greater numbers ganking people, often while they are already in combat with npcs.

There is nothing to fight for really.

Designated PvP zones make so much more sense. 

Originally posted by JB47394

I'd like to see a game that has FFA PvP everywhere, but where PvE and PvP characters don't directly interact.

For example, consider a game where the PvP players form into factions, similar to EVE Online.  They control territory that has resources, settlements and so on.  That constitutes their empire.  The PvP players fight to defend their territory and to expand it into neighboring territories. The PvE players operate within those empires to do all the PvE stuff.  Harvesting, manufacturing, researching, etc.  That could even include fighting NPCs.

The twist is that when a PvE character spots an enemy PvP character, it will automatically run away.  Or hide.  Or cower in fear.  A PvE character is a non-combatant from the standpoint of the PvP game.  If the enemy PvP guy wants to take stuff from the enemy empire's settlements, he can do that and he'll know that the PvE guys won't bother him while he does it.  It's the job of the PvP overlords to ensure that the enemy raids fail.  All the PvE guys can do is call their PvP overlords to come over and help.

The stuff that a PvP raider could take would be anything that has been warehoused by the PvE guys.  That could be raw materials, finished goods or anything else in the PvE game that supports the PvP guys.

Oh, I guess I left that out.  The success of the PvP players is dependent on the success of the PvE guys.  If the PvE guys can operate without interruption then they can supply their PvP overlords with the equipment that they need.  Perhaps one farm raising feed for war horses can support 2 war horses.  If you have 20 PvP players who want war horses, then their empire must have 10 feed farms.  The PvE guys manufacture the gear that their PvP guys use.  Because combat breaks gear, there's a constant need for new gear.

There are issues with such a system, but I offer it only as an illustration of the sort of interaction that I'd like to see.  EVE Online could implement something like this and I'd be happy to play it.  I want to play, and I'm willing to sacrifice the ability to fight back or even to leave my empire's territory if that means that I don't have to worry about other players attacking me.

The main problem with this setup is that the PVE players would have no incentive to play this game since they would be merely serfs to be robbed by any PvP player.  They do all the real work and the PvPers just steal it or extort it.   I don't play video games to have the bully 'steal my lunch money'. 

  Not interested in FFA - at all.  I'm another one in the "DAOC camp"  Best game for me out there yet.  I can pvp on my terms, and if I don't want to, I don't have to.

FFA everywhere but without huge disparity in player "stats"  meaning if you play longer you can fine tune your character more to your playstyle but not roll every noob.  Also with this. . .  .no flagging system so that people can attack griefers who would abuse it.  (think red anti-pks in UO).

The amount of exploits etc though these days make this almost impossible to implement without the FPS "I want to kill crafters while complaining about carebears" crowd swooping in.

I want a virtual world and it will never happen.

Originally posted by mrcalhou

I, personally, love Eve-online's pvp system. While it's technically ffa-pvp everywhere, the consequences in many systems makes random pvp happen extremely infrequently in those areas, while pvp is actually encouraged in other parts of the game map.

Seconded. I love EVE's take on pvp.

I also like WOW's ruleset on pvp servers: when you were careful you were able to sneak into enemy capitals on a rogue. I had a blast with that.

As long as I can experience the added excitement of having players stalking around to get me when out in the open world.

I think FFA PVP ought to be limited to certain hardcore PVP games or to certain servers in other games.

I'll add to the intial reponse I posted.

The best PvP system I found was in Aliens Online... and I bet I'm one of the only people who played that.  It wasn't an MMO and it wasn't even an RPG, but a FPS with two sides - one fo the first to do it.

LOTRO had a promising system that I thought failed miserably.  The concept of having player-controlled mobs, is one I would still support though.  Being given a skill and stat bank you could spend on each mob you could control and then choose a region that had player-adventurers wandering through and being transported to a mob in that region (with your skills and stats being transferred) would be a huge break from the typical PvP debate and mob grind in most MMO's.

Think of what it would be like if 1 out of every 10 mobs you pulled and were grinding had a player controlling them with a slight boost to their base skills.  Rift had huge potential for doing this and then... they didn't.

I like FFA, but I also favor the game world to be more lifelike as well meaning consequences exist as appropirate and can be played out through the NPCs as well as the players.  Dont really want to see perma-death, but if an NPC catches and defeats a known criminal then perhaps auto auction of stuff on the character and not claimed by others and a nice picturees walk to the gallows/headsmen before rebirth.

Originally posted by Torik

The main problem with this setup is that the PVE players would have no incentive to play this game since they would be merely serfs to be robbed by any PvP player.  They do all the real work and the PvPers just steal it or extort it.   I don't play video games to have the bully 'steal my lunch money'. 

PvP players don't attack or steal or extort PvE players.  They attack, steal or extort from PvP assets.  It's up to the PvP guys to protect their assets, their lines of supply and so forth.

I've played EVE Online pretty much in the way I just described.  I'm suggesting a formalization based on that experience that would allow PvE player to focus on PvE and allow PvP players to focus on PvP.  That seems to be what each group really wants to do.  By trusting their player group, they can specialize in the activity that they most enjoy.

FFA sounds great in theory, but the way it is implemented in most games allows douche bags to camp noobs until all the new players quit and the game dies.  The people that want it destroy it before it really has a chance to succeed. /shrug.

I like what EVE, UO and Puzzle Pirates currently offers - safety when I want it and insane helldeath when I want it. Players are able to manage the leve of risk they are comfortable with, which goes a long way toward adding variety to gameplay as well.

Consensual in a PvP area ala DAOC RvR

PvP anytime/anywhere in reality means randomnly and not often.

Give me an area, even if the area is large, so I know everyone that comes to that area, comes there to pvp. As opposed to Darkfall, UO, Shadowbane where it happens everywhere and not often enough to sattisfy.

Originally posted by erictlewis

It should be consentual.  The way I see it is as this.  Games should set up pvp servers. If you want to pvp then pvp, otherwise let the pve folks go on a pve server.

I like and hate this idea because some people join a pve server and never try pvp because of it, however a server for just pvp lets the competition thrive alot more. 

I guess i pretty much agree with this.

I like having it so you can not be PvP flagged until ready or once you reach a certain level, have PvP disabled areas(like trade or social areas), and the range of security to lawless areas like in eve- all this in a FFA PvP server.

Im one of the Daoc-lovers too and i dont understand why most games run with the wow-battleground concept.

To me its really boring...

I liked the whole Earthrise concept though, full loot ffa pvp and i really hope they are gouing to make it better and fix all the "badness" in the game. It has the best and most fun pvp system at the moment IMO.

Originally posted by rottN

Im one of the Daoc-lovers too and i dont understand why most games run with the wow-battleground concept.

I'd guess that battlegrounds grew out of people's enjoyment of Dark Age of Camelot's dueling system.  I recall more than one player bemoaning the fact that only individuals could duel.  Why not groups?  Next thing we know, battlegrounds show up.