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SWG Veteran Refuge  » Why SWG hasn't bounced back (part 2)

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64 posts found
  TeknoBug

Novice Member

Joined: 10/13/07
Posts: 2166

 
OP  4/09/11 5:41:45 PM#21


Originally posted by Bizzlebuff


Originally posted by Dagryn2010


Originally posted by kobie173



Originally posted by OSF8759

I actually feel bad for SOE if they're pinning their future hopes on Planetside, an IP that at its height was a niche title at best.


I thought SOE was hitching their wagon to DC.


DCUO is already dead...Planetside 2 and EQ Next will be their next monster failures.


DCUO is not even close to dead.


It is according to lots of players writing posts about Europe servers being dead and one of the highest populated servers being a "ghost town", and although not a very accurate measurement, it's #300 on Xfire while older games like CoH, Champions Online and SWG are hovering around #100.


  kobie173

Novice Member

Joined: 8/05/06
Posts: 2240

4/10/11 8:21:45 PM#22
Originally posted by jeremyjodes

SOE will never recover. Us vets have killed the entire company and any future products they make. Smed should have never messed with us. he doomed his his own company for the NGE. We will doom any title the company makes. we will never forget we will never forgive.

Not going to say much more. or i will get banned.

No, you didn't. Their shitty business practices and poor products "killed the company." The "vets" did not.

So I started to walk into the water. I won't lie to you boys...I was terrified. But I pressed on, and as I made my way past the breakers, a strange calm came over me. I don't know if it was divine intervention or the kinship of all living things, but I tell you, Jerry, at that moment ... I was a marine biologist.

  ktanner3

Master

Joined: 3/19/06
Posts: 4146

Trolls will be ignored

4/12/11 5:59:19 PM#23
Originally posted by kobie173
Originally posted by jeremyjodes

SOE will never recover. Us vets have killed the entire company and any future products they make. Smed should have never messed with us. he doomed his his own company for the NGE. We will doom any title the company makes. we will never forget we will never forgive.

Not going to say much more. or i will get banned.

No, you didn't. Their shitty business practices and poor products "killed the company." The "vets" did not.

Agreed. The "vets" simply exercized their rights as consumers by choosing to no longer play the game.  Based on what I'm reading from people who have played DCUO they still haven't learned how to release a stable game and give good customer service. Why would anyone want to give them their money again after experiencing SWG?

Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  TUX426

Inquisitor

Joined: 8/04/09
Posts: 1971

Always remember that you're unique. Just like everyone else.

4/13/11 9:50:13 AM#24
Originally posted by jeremyjodes

SOE will never recover. Us vets have killed the entire company and any future products they make. Smed should have never messed with us. he doomed his his own company for the NGE. We will doom any title the company makes. we will never forget we will never forgive.

Not going to say much more. or i will get banned.

Don't give yourself so much credit. There simply aren't enough "pissed off vets" to overcome a good quality game. WoW has had more players start and leave than SWG could ever hope to have, yet they're still growing.

So, as much as I wish we had the power you think we do, we don't. SOE, and ONLY SOE is responsible for their current state of affairs. Smed believes there is a continual turn-over in gamers because "kids" are an infinite source of future revenue (his words, not exactly, but from a recent interview).

Bottom line, SOE won't recover because they make bad games. DCUO took 5 years and cost $50-60+ million dollars. It represents the absolute BEST work they are capable of. Smed has completely lost touch with his customers.

  kwai

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/27/04
Posts: 845

In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti.

4/13/11 9:55:56 AM#25
Originally posted by sookster54

 


Originally posted by BurntvetAnd theirin lies the word. When SOE crapified SWG they took away most of that choice. People had the choice of playing the NGE or quiting. More than 90% quit.

Had they put a real choice for people by now, by way of a classic server, the people would have it. As it is, players don't. Instead, former players choose to stay away from the pile that is current SWG-NGE.

Had Smed and the tard circus that is SOE done that one thing, even to the tune of a couple classic severs with "limited support", much of the well deserved SOE hate would have likely moderated by now.

SOE hasn't and they can enjoy their well-earned and much deserved terrible reputation in regards to treating "the customer".



SOE is releasing PlanetSide: Next, they said no Battle Frame Robotics in this version (that's what killed PlanetSide 1). Hopefully SOE is starting to learn what and what not to do with their games now, it's far too late with SWG and their other games, now they have DCU and so far the feedback on that game is tipping on the negative side.


:( "necro" posting rule.

 

I actually like your signature so much , the SOE lies , that im gonna steal it , but good post none the less.

  musicmann

Novice Member

Joined: 12/25/05
Posts: 1122

4/13/11 10:16:49 AM#26

SOE are a bunch of jackwagons. The game would still today probably have a few  hundred thousand still playing if they would have left the origional mechanics and systems alone and added more content and such. LEC may have the final say so on what a developer can put in the game concerning certain lore and such, but it was SOE that has the say so on the game and the way it played or plays. The funny thing is, the NGE version has been live longer than the origional one and after all this time there is no way to go back. 

I still laugh that SOE didn't have enough forsight like CCP had and understand that even though at that time had what was considered a huge amount of subbed players, didn't follow the path of EVE and just continue to build on what tney had. They got spooked from what WOW was doing and just flat out made a huge mistake.

Even though SWG was light on actual SW lore and content, it still was a great mmo that in it's early days hasn't been matched yet on that certain community and open world feeling that it contained.

  TUX426

Inquisitor

Joined: 8/04/09
Posts: 1971

Always remember that you're unique. Just like everyone else.

4/13/11 10:31:22 AM#27
Originally posted by musicmann

SOE are a bunch of jackwagons. The game would still today probably have a few  hundred thousand still playing if they would have left the origional mechanics and systems alone and added more content and such. LEC may have the final say so on what a developer can put in the game concerning certain lore and such, but it was SOE that has the say so on the game and the way it played or plays. The funny thing is, the NGE version has been live longer than the origional one and after all this time there is no way to go back. 

I still laugh that SOE didn't have enough forsight like CCP had and understand that even though at that time had what was considered a huge amount of subbed players, didn't follow the path of EVE and just continue to build on what tney had. They got spooked from what WOW was doing and just flat out made a huge mistake.

Even though SWG was light on actual SW lore and content, it still was a great mmo that in it's early days hasn't been matched yet on that certain community and open world feeling that it contained.

SOE didn't get "spooked" by WoW, they got envious. They were so concerned about all those players they DIDN'T have, that they willingly accepted the risk of losing their entire current customer base to attract them.

  Obee

Novice Member

Joined: 8/07/06
Posts: 1560

4/13/11 4:16:18 PM#28
Originally posted by TUX426
Originally posted by musicmann

SOE are a bunch of jackwagons. The game would still today probably have a few  hundred thousand still playing if they would have left the origional mechanics and systems alone and added more content and such. LEC may have the final say so on what a developer can put in the game concerning certain lore and such, but it was SOE that has the say so on the game and the way it played or plays. The funny thing is, the NGE version has been live longer than the origional one and after all this time there is no way to go back. 

I still laugh that SOE didn't have enough forsight like CCP had and understand that even though at that time had what was considered a huge amount of subbed players, didn't follow the path of EVE and just continue to build on what tney had. They got spooked from what WOW was doing and just flat out made a huge mistake.

Even though SWG was light on actual SW lore and content, it still was a great mmo that in it's early days hasn't been matched yet on that certain community and open world feeling that it contained.

SOE didn't get "spooked" by WoW, they got envious. They were so concerned about all those players they DIDN'T have, that they willingly accepted the risk of losing their entire current customer base to attract them.

 

According to Jeff Freeman, on this very forum, they didn't risk losing their existing player base, they fully expected to.  The NGE did what SOE intended it to, except that it failed to attract new players, because it wasn't, and still isn't, fun to play.  More effort was put into trying to make the NGE a success in the year and a half after it was inflicted on the game, than was put into improving the game the entire time previously, and the NGE still isn't any fun to play.

  BullseyeArc1

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/25/08
Posts: 416

4/14/11 2:18:28 PM#29
Originally posted by Obee
Originally posted by TUX426
Originally posted by musicmann

SOE are a bunch of jackwagons. The game would still today probably have a few  hundred thousand still playing if they would have left the origional mechanics and systems alone and added more content and such. LEC may have the final say so on what a developer can put in the game concerning certain lore and such, but it was SOE that has the say so on the game and the way it played or plays. The funny thing is, the NGE version has been live longer than the origional one and after all this time there is no way to go back. 

I still laugh that SOE didn't have enough forsight like CCP had and understand that even though at that time had what was considered a huge amount of subbed players, didn't follow the path of EVE and just continue to build on what tney had. They got spooked from what WOW was doing and just flat out made a huge mistake.

Even though SWG was light on actual SW lore and content, it still was a great mmo that in it's early days hasn't been matched yet on that certain community and open world feeling that it contained.

SOE didn't get "spooked" by WoW, they got envious. They were so concerned about all those players they DIDN'T have, that they willingly accepted the risk of losing their entire current customer base to attract them.

 

According to Jeff Freeman, on this very forum, they didn't risk losing their existing player base, they fully expected to.  The NGE did what SOE intended it to, except that it failed to attract new players, because it wasn't, and still isn't, fun to play.  More effort was put into trying to make the NGE a success in the year and a half after it was inflicted on the game, than was put into improving the game the entire time previously, and the NGE still isn't any fun to play.

 I agree they wasted so much time with combat mechanics, SOE devs and LA producers do not mix well.    I know how a office works but you gotta imagine what that meeting was like?      Can you make the combat faster?  Yes, it will look like crap, but yes we can.   Can you totally mess up player interactions to make it simpler for new players?  Sure, but where are these new players?    Oh thier out thier somewhere.    

It still persists today, I unsubbed again, this time Im not going back, Ive learned and pretty much everone else has that SOE can do alot, but LA wont let them.    This game would have been totally differnt if LA wasnt involved.   Latest example is the population on the game is terrible its horriblely skewed, StarSider the big bump on one side the other little servers on the other side.      Producers latest response after 4 months of players begging, we are aware and are waiting for the ok.   

Thats the sad state of the game today, no money for development, no future plans besides we are working on old systems to improve on them, GCW2, and it takes months of crying from customers to get a slight response that we know and we are looking into it.     LA code for piss ant producer cant get  $ outta LA to fix the game.  

  TUX426

Inquisitor

Joined: 8/04/09
Posts: 1971

Always remember that you're unique. Just like everyone else.

4/14/11 2:39:09 PM#30
Originally posted by BullseyeArc1

 I agree they wasted so much time with combat mechanics, SOE devs and LA producers do not mix well.    I know how a office works but you gotta imagine what that meeting was like?      Can you make the combat faster?  Yes, it will look like crap, but yes we can.   Can you totally mess up player interactions to make it simpler for new players?  Sure, but where are these new players?    Oh thier out thier somewhere.    

It still persists today, I unsubbed again, this time Im not going back, Ive learned and pretty much everone else has that SOE can do alot, but LA wont let them.    This game would have been totally differnt if LA wasnt involved.   Latest example is the population on the game is terrible its horriblely skewed, StarSider the big bump on one side the other little servers on the other side.      Producers latest response after 4 months of players begging, we are aware and are waiting for the ok.   

Thats the sad state of the game today, no money for development, no future plans besides we are working on old systems to improve on them, GCW2, and it takes months of crying from customers to get a slight response that we know and we are looking into it.     LA code for piss ant producer cant get  $ outta LA to fix the game.  

Lucas Arts? Can you please provide me ANY shred of evidence that Lucas Arts is the one "holding back their great ideas"?

zombies = SOE

NGE = SOE

Flying pink Ewoks with purple hearts = SOE

Fairy Wings = SOE

Colorable Fairy Wings = SOE

Bat wings = SOE

Invasions where Ents lead the leaderboard = SOE

Zone flipping that can be done AFK = SOE

Ignoring the populations = SOE

Year wasted on Hoth = SOE

6 months wasted on Battlefields = SOE

I'm not saying LA hasn't maybe held them back on something, I just haven't any idea what they would say no to after the above ideas?!

  Obee

Novice Member

Joined: 8/07/06
Posts: 1560

4/14/11 4:05:39 PM#31
Originally posted by BullseyeArc1
Originally posted by Obee
Originally posted by TUX426
Originally posted by musicmann

SOE are a bunch of jackwagons. The game would still today probably have a few  hundred thousand still playing if they would have left the origional mechanics and systems alone and added more content and such. LEC may have the final say so on what a developer can put in the game concerning certain lore and such, but it was SOE that has the say so on the game and the way it played or plays. The funny thing is, the NGE version has been live longer than the origional one and after all this time there is no way to go back. 

I still laugh that SOE didn't have enough forsight like CCP had and understand that even though at that time had what was considered a huge amount of subbed players, didn't follow the path of EVE and just continue to build on what tney had. They got spooked from what WOW was doing and just flat out made a huge mistake.

Even though SWG was light on actual SW lore and content, it still was a great mmo that in it's early days hasn't been matched yet on that certain community and open world feeling that it contained.

SOE didn't get "spooked" by WoW, they got envious. They were so concerned about all those players they DIDN'T have, that they willingly accepted the risk of losing their entire current customer base to attract them.

 

According to Jeff Freeman, on this very forum, they didn't risk losing their existing player base, they fully expected to.  The NGE did what SOE intended it to, except that it failed to attract new players, because it wasn't, and still isn't, fun to play.  More effort was put into trying to make the NGE a success in the year and a half after it was inflicted on the game, than was put into improving the game the entire time previously, and the NGE still isn't any fun to play.

 I agree they wasted so much time with combat mechanics, SOE devs and LA producers do not mix well.    I know how a office works but you gotta imagine what that meeting was like?      Can you make the combat faster?  Yes, it will look like crap, but yes we can.   Can you totally mess up player interactions to make it simpler for new players?  Sure, but where are these new players?    Oh thier out thier somewhere.    

It still persists today, I unsubbed again, this time Im not going back, Ive learned and pretty much everone else has that SOE can do alot, but LA wont let them.    This game would have been totally differnt if LA wasnt involved.   Latest example is the population on the game is terrible its horriblely skewed, StarSider the big bump on one side the other little servers on the other side.      Producers latest response after 4 months of players begging, we are aware and are waiting for the ok.   

Thats the sad state of the game today, no money for development, no future plans besides we are working on old systems to improve on them, GCW2, and it takes months of crying from customers to get a slight response that we know and we are looking into it.     LA code for piss ant producer cant get  $ outta LA to fix the game.  

 

As TUX said, the NGE was SOE's baby.  According to Jeff Freeman, on this forum, the NGE started out as a demo zone (the space station) that could be put on a disc and included with game magazines.  The crappy combat system was mocked up by Dan Rubenfield, the lead designer at the time (and the first lead designer of DCUO), in his spare time.  Mr. Freeman stated more than once, here and on other forums, that nobody from LucasArts ever told them to implement any part of the NGE.

Brandon Reinhart, a former SWG developer who posted on the OBoards as GreenMarine, stated in the comments section of the Broken toys blog that the major problem with SWG's development were the SOE producers, specifically mentioning the LEC producers were not a problem.  He said the SOE producers didn't like or understand the game.  That would explain why the main complaint of a lack of content as the major reason for cancelled subscriptions (according to Raph Koster) lead to the combat system and skill based system being changed.

I'm not sure why the false notion of LEC being the evil mastermind behind all that is wrong with SWG is popping up again.  It has appeared on the SWG Oboard and among the DCUO faithful lately.  Given everythig SOE has done wrong with SWG has been done to every one of their other games, to a much lesser extent, mostly, I'd expect that canard to be long dead.  Then again, considering there are still a large number of people who willing pay money to SOE for their sub par products and horrendous customer service, i guess I shouldn't be too surprised...

 

 

  Obee

Novice Member

Joined: 8/07/06
Posts: 1560

4/14/11 4:09:13 PM#32
Originally posted by TUX426

I'm not saying LA hasn't maybe held them back on something, I just haven't any idea what they would say no to after the above ideas?!

 

The only rumory things I've heard that LEC vetoed were a Yoda themepark , Lando, and moving the game's timeline in relation to the films forward.

 

  Daffid011

Old School

Joined: 1/03/04
Posts: 7652

4/14/11 4:17:28 PM#33

You might as well blame Lucas Arts for DCU, EQ2, Planetside, Vanguard, The Matrix and most other soe games for not bouncing back.  Lucas Arts is just as involved in coding, designing, funding and staffing those games as they are SWG. 

 

SOE is funding the game.  Employing all the designers, developers and artists.  They just need to submit their ideas to Lucas Arts for approval.  Not much beyond that. 

  TeknoBug

Novice Member

Joined: 10/13/07
Posts: 2166

 
OP  4/16/11 10:46:36 AM#34


Originally posted by TUX426

Flying pink Ewoks with purple hearts = SOE
Fairy Wings = SOE
Colorable Fairy Wings = SOE
Bat wings = SOE


Someone told me about these when they first came out, I literally thought they were joking and trying to be funny, until I read the announcement section on the SWG forums.


I mean seriously? Although the bat wings don't look so bad on my Bothan when I got them via free vet time.


  hipiap

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/20/06
Posts: 451

Don't Prove Mark Twain correct by opening your mouth and removing Doubt.

5/06/11 4:29:55 PM#35

 


Originally posted by TUX426

Flying pink Ewoks with purple hearts = SOE
Fairy Wings = SOE
Colorable Fairy Wings = SOE
Bat wings = SOE
ALL APPROVED BY LEC/LA........the Former Rebel GCW Senator neglects to Mention


 

MMO History: 2528 days in SW:G

  Daffid011

Old School

Joined: 1/03/04
Posts: 7652

5/07/11 9:08:45 AM#36
Originally posted by hipiap

 


Originally posted by TUX426

Flying pink Ewoks with purple hearts = SOE
Fairy Wings = SOE
Colorable Fairy Wings = SOE
Bat wings = SOE
ALL APPROVED BY LEC/LA........the Former Rebel GCW Senator neglects to Mention


 

If those are the best ideas that Lucas Arts approved, it really begs the question of what concepts they turned down.

As the old programming saying goes, Garbage in - garbage out.

  User Deleted
5/07/11 9:30:18 AM#37
Originally posted by OSF8759

I actually feel bad for SOE if they're pinning their future hopes on Planetside, an IP that at its height was a niche title at best.

 

Planetside was a niche game at best because it was buggy as hell when it started and that turned a lot of people off and sent around a reputation that it was unreliable...they also suicidally mucked it up after they got the formula right.

After they got their act together it was truly one of the most amazing games of all time. Continuously fun to play, properly strategic like nothing else I've played, zealot-like allegience of solid, involved players. Some of the hard won base fights will stay in my memory forever and I can't say that about any other game. My most fun gaming memories hands down. Then they got it into their heads to introduce giant invincible mechs and pointless yet strategially necessary underground combat on zipwires *groan*. If they did plantside 2 properly: advertise it better, iron out the bugs and exploits early on and keep it fairly true to functional PS1 (minus giant ghey robots) I can promise an experience second to none to anyone who picks up a copy. They'd also make a shed load of money now that the legend of the first one has grown. 

 

FIngers, toes, ears and nads crossed....

  Kooshdin

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/27/09
Posts: 220

5/07/11 10:21:10 AM#38
Originally posted by sookster54

 


Originally posted by BurntvetAnd theirin lies the word. When SOE crapified SWG they took away most of that choice. People had the choice of playing the NGE or quiting. More than 90% quit.

 

Had they put a real choice for people by now, by way of a classic server, the people would have it. As it is, players don't. Instead, former players choose to stay away from the pile that is current SWG-NGE.

Had Smed and the tard circus that is SOE done that one thing, even to the tune of a couple classic severs with "limited support", much of the well deserved SOE hate would have likely moderated by now.

SOE hasn't and they can enjoy their well-earned and much deserved terrible reputation in regards to treating "the customer".



SOE is releasing PlanetSide: Next, they said no Battle Frame Robotics in this version (that's what killed PlanetSide 1). Hopefully SOE is starting to learn what and what not to do with their games now, it's far too late with SWG and their other games, now they have DCU and so far the feedback on that game is tipping on the negative side.

 


:( "necro" posting rule.

 

 

 

 

WHAT ???? The battle frame robotics were awesome ! it was amazing to see heapas of ground troops try take down a battle frame ! Come on what was wrong with the battle frames ?

 

http://www.speedtest.net/result/1651869499.png

  Kooshdin

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/27/09
Posts: 220

5/07/11 10:22:16 AM#39
Originally posted by OSF8759

I actually feel bad for SOE if they're pinning their future hopes on Planetside, an IP that at its height was a niche title at best.

 

 

 

Only because they released Star Wars Galaxies about 2 months after ! That was the reason planetside  didnt grow for me

http://www.speedtest.net/result/1651869499.png

  Kooshdin

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/27/09
Posts: 220

5/07/11 10:28:01 AM#40

How could SOE not know that reducing the player professions from 30+ to 9 would cause people to leave is beyond me. Somehow it seems as if it was intentional :(

http://www.speedtest.net/result/1651869499.png

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