Trending Games | Elder Scrolls Online | WildStar | Star Wars: The Old Republic | Heroes of the Storm

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,643,587 Users Online:0
Games:681  Posts:6,077,305
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Everquest Next: Landmark Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

News & Features Discussion  » General: LFM

3 Pages « 1 2 3 » Search
45 posts found
  daelnor

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/16/04
Posts: 1467

3/04/11 5:16:07 PM#21

Dunno, RIFT seems pretty chaotic as far as the Rifting goes.  I am still pretty low level, but I don't think anyone really cares all that much about stealing boss mobs.  There are dungeons and what not also that have more formal grouping.  The Rifting is a nice break from "Kill X wolves" or "fedex this from a to b" quests.  It allows a nice variety.

  trancejeremy

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/30/08
Posts: 1204

3/04/11 6:03:48 PM#22

The trouble is, these days there is a hardcore vs casual mindset.

The hardcore will cry and bitch and moan about anything (like this) that helps casual players actually have fun in MMORPGs.

But at the same time, it's pretty much this same attitude that has forced things like this to become necessary. Hard core/elitists never want to group with anyone outside their friends list or guild.

LOTRO is a perfect example. It's got a lot of group content, but no one ever wants to group outside of their guild. Or talk even. You can be lined up to kill a boss for a quest, even but people just will not group to kill it together.

R.I.P. City of Heroes and my 17 characters there

  User Deleted
3/04/11 8:04:24 PM#23

When I look at the second to last screenshot, the one above the baby, I think to myself: 'where the hell is the game, hidden behind the add-ons?'

When I look at screens that are similar to that it is just one more reason that I think add-ons are a problem, security issues aside. At that point and points close to it you lose the feel of the game, you lose the game world, and are just looking at a bunch of  charts and numbers. I understand completely that it can be helpful and make difficult encounters easier but at the cost of losing the game to some kind of frantic math session.

I know that this isn't relevant to the content of this post but since the screen was there I thought I'd say something about it. I pray to God that add-ons do not come to RIFT.

  devacore

Novice Member

Joined: 11/12/06
Posts: 406

3/04/11 8:10:07 PM#24

yea, I agree I liked the open group concept.  Personally, I still think the holy grail is to be found but doesn't shake any of the good off the open group concept.

  jmcdermottuk

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/10/06
Posts: 764

3/04/11 8:30:34 PM#25

Rift has the open group just right, easy to use, hard to abuse and generally fun.

 

As for dungeon groups, the soul system and the ability to acquire more souls and "roles" also helps a lot. Need a tank? Fine I can click a button and adopt "Tank" role. Need DPS? No problem, swap role again and you can DPS. In my Cleric's case I can tank, heal or DPS as the need arises.

 

It's a vey flexible system that allows group places to be filled easliy and quickly. It's a fun game and well worth trying out.

  holifeet

Novice Member

Joined: 10/09/05
Posts: 530

3/04/11 9:14:17 PM#26
Originally posted by an0maly33

"humdrum of Rift"?!?!

I played eq1 since kunark released and loved it.  That said, I can't play it anymore.  It feels SO kludgy and out of date that it's impossible for me to immerse myself in it.  I would honestly be better off in a straight up text adventure.  When something as simple as mouse look is all messed up (fast right/left motion but horrendously slow vertical), I just can't do it.  

And I'm not sure which game YOU played, but it wasn't Rift that's humdrum.  It does indeed have elements we've seen before, but the level of polish and the addition of little details makes me go "Why the hell haven't developers been doing THAT this whole time?!"

Anyway, I love the Rift grouping model.  Oh look, there's a rift!  *button pops up to join the group already in the area*  Ok good work everyone! drop group and go about my business.  I can even merge my group into that existing group, just can't pull the group back out when we're done.  If they had a way to "group leave" to preserve your original membership that would be fantastic.

It also comes in handy when some d-bag is trying to ninja a boss that you had to fight off 10 trash mobs to get to.  Click the offending a-hole, merge your "group" (1 player) with his and bam. You get credit too.

Well this topic isn't actually about how the games play...even though Rift is humdrum tediousness. This topic is about PUGs versus automatic grouping systems.

Modern MMOs are all about quests and it is that that inhibits the grouping mechanic in MMOs. People aren't going into dungeons specifically to have fun, although fun can be a by product of what they are there for. What they are there for is a very specific goal, be it a kill or a drop, that they need for a quest. What causes problems with PUGs is that more often than not every person is at a different stage or some have even finished a quest when others haven't. It's therefore difficult to get people together  that are after the same thing. Player A won't want to help player B catch up, for example.

In that case it is the questing emchanic of the game that is restrictuive to grouping, not problems associated with getting people together. Getting people together is easy, though it does seem more often the case in this day and age that making people get on in MMOs is harder. All these examples of why PUGing is hard or problematic are just excuses. The problems are these tedious game mechanics that keep popping up in MMOs.

Like I said I have been playing EQ again for the last three weeks. In that time I have had plenty of splendid PUGs. Last weekend I spent something like 5 or 6 hours in a group in a few dungeons. I had a blast and everyone got on superbly. Just now I had a group in Lavastorm with quite a few changes to the group make up. Never were we inconvenienced (unless you count multiple groups in one spot due to population) and replacements were quick and easy to find. EQ has none of this quest rubbish, where achievements are the erason for grouping. EQ is a game where you get together with likeminded people to just have fun. There are no objectives bar the obtaining of maybe some armour and the next level.

PUGs work and EQ is aperfect example of it. It is dull, repetetive and same old, same old mechanics in every single MMO that have ruined grouping and made these open group systems necessary.

 

I'll finish by quoting a friend. I'm sure he won't mind. Just because a game tricks the mind by providing open grouping, it doesn't mean it is good grouping. Good grouping is getting together with friends or people you just met and having any amount of time's fun and remembering it the next day...or even the next month. Hell, I remember groups from EQ 7 years ago. I don't remember a single second of the time I spent in any group in Rift...it was just quest grinding that I happened to need a little help for.

All hail the Pixel, for it is glorious Orange!
.

  Adamai

Novice Member

Joined: 4/06/10
Posts: 457

3/04/11 10:01:59 PM#27

oh wow thaty 4th pic is just blinding. what i mean is its stupid. why even bother playing a game you cant see for icons and tabs. thats not a game its a websight thats interactive. with just far far too many buttons and options.

 

not simple enough to many skills to many other things on the screen at the same time.

 

el crapo!! wont be playing rift purely on this basis. its just another wow!!

  holifeet

Novice Member

Joined: 10/09/05
Posts: 530

3/04/11 11:14:18 PM#28
Originally posted by Adamai


oh wow thaty 4th pic is just blinding. what i mean is its stupid. why even bother playing a game you cant see for icons and tabs. thats not a game its a websight thats interactive. with just far far too many buttons and options.

 

not simple enough to many skills to many other things on the screen at the same time.

 

el crapo!! wont be playing rift purely on this basis. its just another wow!!

 

Err I'm pretty sure that is WoW.

 

But, yes, Rift does look pretty much the same.

All hail the Pixel, for it is glorious Orange!
.

  reanor

Novice Member

Joined: 5/30/04
Posts: 431

Ba-na-na!

3/05/11 12:38:48 AM#29

MMO already has massive in it, what MMOs miss these days is RPG part. Every MMO full of dumb grind. Take any MMORPG today and its full of grind... Make some story developers! Raids and PvP is not everything. Thanks Bioware finally will release first MMO that really has RPG part in it... Every other MMO - sucks buttocks. Played a lot of other MMOs, everything is grind.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 12768

3/05/11 2:09:53 AM#30
Originally posted by holifeet

 A lengthy group deep in the depths of some dungeon and with people you only met two hours ago will always be fun.

That's what blows up your whole argument.  You assume that everyone has at least two hours that they can set aside to play continuously.  A lot of people have other real-life responsibilities that make it impractical to do that more than once in a while.

Spending ten minutes to get a group if you're going to then spend a few hours doing something with that group isn't so bad.  If you've only got half an hour available, then spending ten minutes to get a group is a big problem.  And if you've got half an hour available and it sometimes takes 45 minutes to get a group together, well, it's time to quit and find a different game to play.

  MurlockDance

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/20/10
Posts: 1065

3/05/11 5:32:32 AM#31

Great article!

I do like my fair share of grouping, soloing constantly gets boring unless my time is extremely limited. The problem to me for EQ1 was that outside of a couple of classes, you couldn't solo at all. I like having flexibility of choice. If I know that I will only be able to play for an hour, I usually do not bother getting a group. If I do have time to play a lot, I get a group. I don't usually find it that difficult to scrounge one up, though I do remember the times in AO where I could spend easily 40 minutes waiting for a doc the right level to log in.

In WAR, the PQs really shone, though it could be a bit daunting to be in an area when a PQ just started and get swamped by mobs. The added benefit was that those who contributed the most to completing the PQ in all of its stages got a chance to get loot. Those people who just happened by towards the end would get nothing but xp. I enjoyed the open grouping system, especially in RvR. I'm guessing Rift is the same?

In WoW on the otherhand, the DF tool makes it trivial to group up but the problem is its cross-serverness. In most games, I find my ingame friends by grouping up and starting to talk. Once we realize we've got common interests and like each other, then guild invites are proferred or we /friend each other and group in the future. It's a very good way to make strong community ties. I find that the DF tool undermines this because you end up with people from other servers that you will most likely never see again. With no alternative, you can't really make friends in the game like one could before.

I'm pretty happy in EQ2. I moved onto the Crushbone server and find it not so bad for grouping, even before the server merge. With the server merge, it has gotten even better. The mentoring and AA system really is conducive to people mixing it up with characters of lower level though, and that is something that I think is outstanding in this game.

Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

  Beegs

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/16/07
Posts: 96

3/05/11 6:24:49 AM#32
Personally im not really against open grouping. However im very much against open grouping being used as a replacement for your traditional group content - Rift being a shining example of this. The notion that open groups where a group of people all happen upon the same area and co-operate is slightly misleading - the content is so dumbed down and straight forward that it just requires force of numbers and little else in order to achieve it, generally playing out the same way each time. Content where everyone is in a group but essentially continues to do their solo thing is neither rewarding or what I would call group content.
 
Zerg content would be more appropriate, and its not really for me.
 
The sad thing about Rift is that in theory with its class system it could have mitigated some of the issues with the traditional class/group system. It would have been much easier to get groups going as people could switch roles around in order to make the group work. The game is so relentlessly focused on solo questing though group content has been sidelined.
 
For me group content is about classes working together, fulfilling their roles and succeeding because of this. Its about overpulls and getting through it by the skin of your teeth because everyone pulled out all stops and excelled.
 
Your anonymous zerg content does not have this - generally the answer isn't to approach it differently or change tactics, its simply to wait for more people to turn up.
 
As in the rest of our world this desperation to cater to the lowest common denominator, with fear of excluding anyone, does nothing but water things down for everyone.

r.i.p. c!

  KyBo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/31/09
Posts: 144

3/05/11 9:07:14 AM#33

     I personally think that open grouping will soon be an essential mechanic for MMO's.  It's a way to get players who are new into groups for things that they may not have been able to group for alone.  There can be issues with under-geared players being added to more elite groups, but it only becomes a problem if the group members are elitist douche bags, and grief that player rather than politely explaining that they're not ready for that high level content.  Conversely, you could also have problems if said player is an arrogant l337 noob, and goes Charlie Sheen on the group for rejecting him.

     On a side note, I totally agree with Ysharros about that 4th pic.  Seriously, how the F*CK can someone play with so much crap on the screen?!  You can't even see the characters, LOL!   

  Ysharros

Novice Member

Joined: 9/08/05
Posts: 87

"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks" -- Dorothy Parker

3/05/11 10:02:32 AM#34

Ysh = Iz.Parsley ;) 

I just wanted to see if I could coax SBFord out into the light. :D  I can just about see again, anyway.

Looking at it again, I probably have that many screen elements going when I'm doing the PvP stuff in WoW these days; the difference is, I have a 28" monitor and play at 1920x1200 as opposed to whatever weedgie rez is being used in that screenie. I don't think I could stand to have that many elements crowding the main part of my screen.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 18364

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

3/05/11 10:15:32 AM#35

I enjoy the open grouping in Rift, and maybe someone else invented it, but Trion's mastered it.

Yet, while I do enjoy grouping up for Rift events, there's still so much activity going on (very fast and furious trying to get your participation points) that there's zero time to chat with your new "friends" at all.

Still need to figure out a cure for that problem.

"The discrepancy between what we know is possible and what we currently have to choose from is beyond disappointing" - GeezerGamer
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 12768

3/05/11 12:17:08 PM#36

The proper question about open grouping in Rift isn't, how does it work today?  That doesn't particularly matter.  The proper question is, how will it work in a year, once players have figured out the quirks and how to game the system, and the playerbase has spread out a lot more?  And for that, we don't know.  It is highly probable that there will be some glaring problems with Rift's open grouping system a year from now that simply aren't apparent today.

-----

Some games do have inexcusably bad grouping mechanisms.  And that does need to be improved upon in many games, as the article discusses.  Sometimes there is simply no practical way to communicate and find the other people who want to do what you want to do.  In WoW, I typically had to resort to using /who to find players of the appropriate level, and then sending unsolicited /tells to them.

Worse, some games split the playerbase so that even if players want to group and do particular content at the same time, they're stuck on different severs and can't.  Some people like rigidly separate servers, claiming that it lets you get to know the other people on your server.  But that only lets a handful of the hard-core players get to know each other.  The overwhelming majority of the playerbase doesn't get any such effect, and will nearly always have to group with strangers, anyway.

Level differences or gear differences are another major problem.  If there are 500 people on the server looking for a group, but only 20 of them can reasonably group with you because of level and/or gear differences, then that makes it much harder to find a viable group--especially as those 20 may want to do very different content.

And then there is travel time.  If it takes 5 minutes to find people who will agree to group with you, and then 15 minutes for them to travel to the dungeon entrance, then it takes 20 minutes to get a group.  For the large majority of the playerbase that doesn't routinely spend hours at a time playing the game, that's a horrible thing to do.

-----

But often, the bigger problem is bad content design.  Game companies design content that works great if you have a particular group composition.  The problem is that the needed group composition is one that cannot and will not be readily available.

One way that this happens is by requiring a group composition that doesn't reflect what portions of the playerbase want to do the content.  For example, if a dungeon requires a 6-man group and is built for two healers, two tanks, and two damage dealers, then what happens if only 20% of the people who want to do the dungeon are healers, and 50% are damage dealers?

This can easily vary from one dungeon to another.  What if one dungeon has a couple of really great gear drops for healers, while another has nothing of interest to healers at all?  Maybe there will be too many healers who want to do the former, and not enough for the latter.

Another problem is that of splitting the playerbase too broadly.  What happens if there are a hundred different things that players group for, all of which require a five man group, and 300 players looking to group for something?  For an awful lot of the players looking for a group, there simply won't be five players out there looking for a group for the same content.  And even if there are eight people looking for such a group, three have to be left out and stuck without a group.

I'd submit that the problem is that games often start by designing content with particular group compositions in mind, and then only consider how players will actually get such groups after the fact, if at all.   Trying to match players for groups when there aren't enough players or they have the wrong proportions of classes is an intractible problem.  If you have such badly designed content, then no grouping mechanism can fix it.

If you're going to make group content that is easily playable on the game's live servers, then it has to be done the other way around.  You start by saying, this is how players can assemble groups.  And then, once you have some idea of what sort of groups players will easily be able to form, then you design content to be doable by those groups.

But even this is very hard to do.  If you're going to have content that only a few people want to start a group for at any given moment in time, then those few people have to be the appropriate number and class composition, regardless of what they are.  And note that it's often only the ones looking to join a group for particular content, not everyone looking to do do that particular content.  If want to do a particular dungeon, it doesn't help you a bit if there is a group already formed and full and 20 minutes into it.

Making most group compositions viable means you have to either get away from the healer/tank/damage dealer scheme, let players readily switch their role on the fly (and be perfectly good at their new role, too!), or be able to conjure up arbitrary extra AI party members as needed.  It also means that the content has to either readily scale to an arbitrary number of players or else, again, allow you to conjure up arbitrary extra AI party members.

Guild Wars managed to make this work by allowing henchmen and heroes, so that you could grab a few players with reasonable builds, without any care for whether they complemented each other, and then fill in the holes with heroes.

Guild Wars 2 is going to try to make it work by making dynamic events scale to arbitrarily many players, and having no dedicated class roles, so that nearly any group composition should be viable.  Rift tries to do the same thing with the rifts scaling to arbitrarily many players, and allowing players to change their role by changing which souls they're using.

But this is very hard to do, too.  What do you do about players who show up and are simply the wrong level, or have the wrong gear?  What about players who are in the area, but not actively fighting?  Something that works well on launch day when everyone is trying to play the system as it was intended to be used may not work well a year later when half of the low level players are trying to abuse the system any way they can, in order to level as quickly as possible.

And scaling content is difficult to do properly, as you'll inevitably make the content much harder with some numbers of players than other numbers.  Having twice as many players and twice as many mobs doesn't often leave the difficulty unchanged, as there are area attacks and debuffs, group heals, and so forth.  And how do you scale a single boss like that?  For any content that is remotely difficult, players will figure out that this number of party members works better than that one, and refuse to form groups of the "hard" sizes--and then your content no longer scales with the number of players involved.

-----

This is wandering off-topic somewhat, but the reason for the popularity of solo content often isn't that people dislike grouping for its own sake.  It's that you can usually do solo content by just logging on and playing.  If the alternative is to spend half of your time sitting there looking for a group, then being able to spend all of your time playing the game for real is an attractive option.

  Isane

Novice Member

Joined: 5/24/06
Posts: 2691

"Some do , Some don''t , Others just cry"

Jean Sali

3/05/11 12:43:14 PM#37

Sadly I think we may be close to the end with respect to MMOs..... The whole adventure and social gaming aspect has all but gone. No community no gameplay , just insta mass ganks and troops appearing out of no where.

The next triple AAA title coming out (SWTOR) goes down the other route with groups from what I can see and aligns more with gameplay and some sense of being we will have to see.

I am slowly coming to the conclusion that if you wnat to play a good game you have to find a good MUD. As most fo the games at the momemnt seem infested with insta end game no persistance required players.

The games are so paint by numbers these days that why have an immersive massive world, because in context it doesnt really matter unless some complexity and gameplay exists and a need to form communities.

Rift is fun but in no way should be classed as an MMO or RPG maybe a never ending gank fest but not a lot more, it doesn't offer up a real persistant world in any way. Fun for some but not a good MMORPG... not a lot of thought required.

________________________________________________________
SWTOR and COS games that could deliver !!

  jayarte

Novice Member

Joined: 8/21/09
Posts: 449

3/06/11 1:54:25 PM#38
Originally posted by Ysharros

PS -- I don't usually know what the article pix will be till they're in -- and OMG that 4th one! My eyes! They bleed!

I was wondering how anyone could play with their UI like that, lol ^^  Busy, busy, busy would be an understatement.

 

Another enjoyable article.  The ability to hop in and out of Rifts is one of the main things that drew me to Rift, and I also enjoyed that aspect of Warhammer.  Like you, I don't have the time to log into a game and then spend ages getting a group together for a specific task.  When WoW was my home, and I ran a lovely guild there, grouping for instances etc was fun and relatively easy using to arrange using our website and ventrilo.  I tend to mmo-hop these days, though, so I don't have the same network of players to draw on for grouping. 

 

It certainly works well for me being able to easily join and leave groups in order to have that sense of working together for a common goal without the arduous hassle of spending hours lfg.

  holifeet

Novice Member

Joined: 10/09/05
Posts: 530

3/06/11 3:30:21 PM#39
Originally posted by Isane


Sadly I think we may be close to the end with respect to MMOs..... The whole adventure and social gaming aspect has all but gone. No community no gameplay , just insta mass ganks and troops appearing out of no where.

The next triple AAA title coming out (SWTOR) goes down the other route with groups from what I can see and aligns more with gameplay and some sense of being we will have to see.

I am slowly coming to the conclusion that if you wnat to play a good game you have to find a good MUD. As most fo the games at the momemnt seem infested with insta end game no persistance required players.

The games are so paint by numbers these days that why have an immersive massive world, because in context it doesnt really matter unless some complexity and gameplay exists and a need to form communities.

Rift is fun but in no way should be classed as an MMO or RPG maybe a never ending gank fest but not a lot more, it doesn't offer up a real persistant world in any way. Fun for some but not a good MMORPG... not a lot of thought required.

 

Sadly I think you are almost right, Isane. The social heart and soul has gone out of MMOs and I can't see them getting much better unless either GW2 or SWTOR can do something to change it.

 

There is hope on the horizon though, in the form of Archeage, and the behemoth that is EQ has got it spot on with Fippy Darkpaw and Vulak Aerr. I was actually chating about how the social side of MMos has disappeared from the genre these days just yesterday. Both myself and the person I was chatting to couldn't help but agree that EQ had a social aspect to it that none of these latest MMOs has. Where else can you find people willing to go out of their way to help you just because they want to?

 

Not in Rift, for certain. One of my most resolute memories of my time in Rift was how I decided to join in on a rift that was being tackled by just two people. When I joined in they hung back and let me get annihalated by the first mob I tackled. This was an elite rift and I stood no chance. I figured they just wanted this content to themselves. And one of those people was someone that had been a member of the Rift community since the new forums open up in April last year, not a new breed of MMO player certainly.

 

I'll stick with EQ and hope that maybe there's a brave development team out there that are willing to do what seems to be so frowned upon of late. That is to bring back the social heart of MMOs rather than having to resort to false mechanisms such as open grouping.

All hail the Pixel, for it is glorious Orange!
.

  grimfall

Novice Member

Joined: 4/25/07
Posts: 1147

3/06/11 8:40:27 PM#40
Originally posted by holifeet
Originally posted by Isane

Rift is fun but in no way should be classed as an MMO or RPG maybe a never ending gank fest but not a lot more, it doesn't offer up a real persistant world in any way. Fun for some but not a good MMORPG... not a lot of thought required.

 

Sadly I think you are almost right, Isane. The social heart and soul has gone out of MMOs and I can't see them ge

 

I'll stick with EQ and hope that maybe there's a brave development team out there that are willing to do what seems to be so frowned upon of late. That is to bring back the social heart of MMOs rather than having to resort to false mechanisms such as open grouping.

 Sorry about cutting down those posts, scroll up to read them all, because they're pretty good.

The great irony in the death of EQ is that people hated the grinding.  They tried out WoW and found that the game mechanics were almost infinetily more satisfying... then six months later they realized that they hadn't made a lot of good friends like they did in Everquest, because they simply weren't forced to group, and weren't forced to sit around and wait for the Cleric's mana bar to fill.

I am enjoying the heck out of Rift - but you can get to max level in Rift without ever speaking another word to another player.  I've had one or two good groups, and I've been playing since Beta.

WoW is even worse.  When you use the dungeon finder tool, the only thing people talk about is loot.

Eve, as I understand it, is a slower paced game where interacting with other players in a friendly manner is encouraged, if not necessary, and it seems to do fine.

I don't mind playing a game for 30 hours a week (ok I don't have that much time anymore, maybe 20?) and not being to level cap 3 months before the next expansion.  I want to be challenged, and be challenged with my social and communication skills.  I don't really have any faith in EQ Next to do this - I think that they'll probably try to out-WoW, WoW, but it would be cool if we had another slower paced, challenging MMO were you had to be social to gear yourself, level and enjoy the game.

3 Pages « 1 2 3 » Search