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SWG Veteran Refuge  » The only thing SOE ever did wrong with this game was the NGE right?

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100 posts found
  Worstluck

Novice Member

Joined: 1/29/11
Posts: 1280

No man controls my destiny... especially not one who attacks downwind and stinks of garlic.

2/08/11 11:06:32 PM#21

I don't remember a single person asking for them to completely change the game the way they did with NGE.  Jump to lightspeed was bad enough for me, even though I did have some fun flying around and pew pewing.  There were problems with the game before NGE, but nothing that required a complete reworking of the game.  There were bugs, random glitches, and macroers galore, but it was nothing that could have been improved upon.  I am still bitter to this day about the whole thing.  They took something I loved and turned it to shit :(

  Kazlin

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/30/08
Posts: 124

2/08/11 11:07:47 PM#22

Comeing from someone ho has been there since day one sure the game launched and had its problems through out but NGE was not SoE it was LA. LA wanted a peice of the WoW pocket saying if we make our game easier to play so new players can pick it up and dive right it with 0 learning curve we could get the money that WoW is generateing.

We all know that SWG came with a steep learing curve and that was a good thing for most of us but all the rest of the things posted here sure it was SoE's fault but i do not blame  SoE for the NGE as it has been stated over and over that it was not SoE that wanted it in fact they knew what the outcome would be thats why they didnt annouce it before hand because it wasnt gonna change a thing as LA put there foot down and said we own the IP you will do it this way.

There is alot of issues like this happening in all games lok at WAR the table top game is so huge but useing the IP for a MMO is tough because you have to stay true to the IP ask Mystic about the dwarf mounts they drew up and GW said no that isnt apart of the Lore so you cant do it.

 

I think people really need to let it go SoE appoligiesd over and over for it even if it wasnt there fault they still stood up and took all the punches and bad press and there wasnt much else they could of done.

as much as i love Bioware and they can do no wrong  i have a feeling LA will try to change that game if it dosnt appeal to the way LA wants to make money.

  Acebets70

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/08/11
Posts: 207

2/08/11 11:24:21 PM#23

SWG at the start was FUN!!!  Large 20 man hunting groups, open pvp, player cities, NPC bases, So many profession combos, and crafting rocked...

However, there were bugs, glitches, LAGG !!!  They never did work on fixing what was already fun they just kept adding stuff and making the bugs worse... CU and NGE ended the game what exists now is something different.. Only people who played the game at the start can truly understand the greatness and the tragedy of this mmo...

 

P.S.  They didnt need to get rid of decay just slow it down a little and the crafters would of been happy.

Same with battle fatigue which would of made entertainers happy as well...

Why did they nerf the player bounties so bad? How can i not know the name of who im hunting?  The current system is so bad i get angry thinking about it.  Just fly to Jabba on Tat  or IG88 on Core  and pay credits (make it costly) and type in the name of the person you want a bounty on!!!!  It didnt have to be so hard!!!

  SuperDonk

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/22/10
Posts: 701

2/08/11 11:41:23 PM#24

The NGE is what made me pass on DCUO and every other SOE game since.  Maybe I need to get over it, but I doubt I ever will.  SOE pissed all over me and I will never forgive them for that.

I want to be Uncle Owen again.

  Murashu

Novice Member

Joined: 6/23/06
Posts: 1397

2/08/11 11:48:13 PM#25
Originally posted by Acebets70

SWG at the start was FUN!!!  Large 20 man hunting groups, open pvp, player cities, NPC bases, So many profession combos, and crafting rocked...

However, there were bugs, glitches, LAGG !!!  They never did work on fixing what was already fun they just kept adding stuff and making the bugs worse... CU and NGE ended the game what exists now is something different.. Only people who played the game at the start can truly understand the greatness and the tragedy of this mmo...

Yep, most of the people I knew that were unhappy and leaving the game, were just sick of the lack of fixes. We loved the combat, the skill system, the crafting, the 20 man groups, open world PvP, player cities, player housing...it was all fun. They just weren't fixing issues rubber-banding, the laggy or delayed spawning of mob camps, or how to deal with the abandoned houses/cities. The game launched with major issues that should have been fixed before an expansion but were ignored for years. SOE used the same technique with VG and we see how well it is doing today.

www.agonysend.org

  amimia

Novice Member

Joined: 11/17/05
Posts: 73

2/08/11 11:51:06 PM#26

since SOE owns SWG im surprised they dont just restore the servers back to the original SWG and try to get some of their members back. Man I miss playing that game.

  ericbelser

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/11/08
Posts: 790

2/08/11 11:56:41 PM#27
Originally posted by ArcAngel3

I've read numerous posts, blogs, articles etc. that seem to suggest that the only thing SOE ever did wrong with this title was the NGE.  SOE made "a" mistake we're told, they've apologized and learned from it. 

So, what do you think.  Is it true that the NGE was the only thing SOE ever did wrong with this title, or is someone forgetting an awful lot of nastiness?

The NGE was a transcendent moment of sheer stupidity. The magnitude of the disaster it caused made every previous bug, mistake and "oops" of SWG seem trivial.

SWG was badly flawed from the begining; the list of problems with core systems, exploits, bugs and lore were legion...but none of them had killed the game or made it unplayable. Many of the problems could have been fixed or had already been fixed.

Honestly, by the incredibly lax standards of the present day it would be only be fair to characterize the NGE as a wonderful launch :) However at the time, it represented the single biggest "FU" ever given by the management of a major MMO company to their existant playerbase. (Who holds that title now is somewhat up for debate, sadly!)

  Murashu

Novice Member

Joined: 6/23/06
Posts: 1397

2/08/11 11:57:52 PM#28
Originally posted by amimia

since SOE owns SWG im surprised they dont just restore the servers back to the original SWG and try to get some of their members back. Man I miss playing that game.

They originally claimed that the code was lost when they created the NGE and later said it was too late, that switching back to the old code would be like creating another NGE for the existing player base.

 

Personally I would rather someone take all the great things that were in SWG and put them into a newer MMO with improved graphics and animations without all the bugs, but devs seem more interested in trying to duplicate WoW.

www.agonysend.org

  pqyrz

Novice Member

Joined: 1/26/06
Posts: 14

2/09/11 12:10:48 AM#29

But that would mean they were wrong about the CU and NGE all along. SOE is run by morons - I doubt they will ever run classic servers. It would be fun though.

  Haatchi

Novice Member

Joined: 12/18/10
Posts: 69

2/09/11 12:11:53 AM#30

Well, as a jedi pre-patch 9, I consider the CU as the very first catastrophe. However, the NGE was so bad that today, the CU looks great.

I'll never ever touch another $o€ game. I read somewhere someone saying that $o€ apologized for their mistake. This is wrong. They apologized to the communities of Vanguard & EQ2 when players started to fear to be screwed like us. SWG customers were left behind. As usual.

  Ryukan

Novice Member

Joined: 11/06/08
Posts: 710

2/09/11 12:12:25 AM#31

I also felt that the NGE was a colossal mistake that ruined the game by far. But I also felt the game was really hampered by setting it in the timeline of the movies. It would have much better for the game to focus on less explored time lines that were more open to expansion and freedom, such as Bioware is doing with SWTOR. The movie timeline was just topo iconic and defined to use it effectively for an MMO and when the Rage of the Wookies expansion hit the continuity of the timeline and the canon of that period was ruined and shot to hell gamewise.

  TUX426

Inquisitor

Joined: 8/04/09
Posts: 1971

Always remember that you're unique. Just like everyone else.

2/09/11 10:03:43 AM#32

Great post, good points and HELL NO it wasn't "just" the NGE...it was every issue you mention and then 100's more.

SoE's problems come from the top down. It's never been ONE thing (NGE) with them. It's years upon years upon years of neglecting their products and assuming the customer was replaceable.

This isn't limited to just SWG, it's SoE's entire corporate phylosophy that's ass backwards. SoE has ALWAYS been more concerned about the customers they DON'T have than the customers they DO (did) have. They don't try to grow, they try to replace. The WoW envy they have is tangible. Arrogance and greed are SoE's biggest problems...not the flippin NGE.

  Daffid011

Old School

Joined: 1/03/04
Posts: 7652

2/09/11 10:49:16 AM#33
Originally posted by TUX426

Great post, good points and HELL NO it wasn't "just" the NGE...it was every issue you mention and then 100's more.

SoE's problems come from the top down. It's never been ONE thing (NGE) with them. It's years upon years upon years of neglecting their products and assuming the customer was replaceable.

This isn't limited to just SWG, it's SoE's entire corporate phylosophy that's ass backwards. SoE has ALWAYS been more concerned about the customers they DON'T have than the customers they DO (did) have. They don't try to grow, they try to replace. The WoW envy they have is tangible. Arrogance and greed are SoE's biggest problems...not the flippin NGE.

This is the most important fact about the NGE and SOE as a whole.

For the record, I had quit SWG long before the combat upgrade or the nge.  It didn't ruin my game and I had already come to the conclusion that soe could not properly manage the game.  I was playing EQ2 at the time and it was going through a similar overhaul where soe bumbles around trying to fix to many problems at one time and only makes the problem worse.

SOE took their customers money and used it to redisgn SWG into something the customers didn't want in an effort to replace them.   That isn't something that can change as long as the current leadership remains in charge.  They simply view their customers as a source of revenue that can be used to attract the potential player and that is all they care about, the potential player.  The only thing soe learned from this is that things can go terribly wrong and they cannot jump into these types of changes head first or they will lose everyone.

John Smedly wants to be an industry leader and a rock star among game developers.  He doesn't care nor understand what it takes to make great games anymore and that attidtude trickles down through the entire company.  That is their corporate culture now. 

They are trying to replace the EQ2 playerbase right now in a similar manner.  Right after promising they were not going to make EQ2 f2p, they announce f2p EQ2.  Then they shift the entire dev team to work on that and shaft existing player by redoing the UI, spell effects and new player content.  They remove the free trials from existing servers to drive new players to the cash shop server.  They simply do not care about their customers.

The fact that they are so incompetent at developing and managing their games is a very distant second to this.  All the mistakes and ignorant decisions in designing thier games do not come close to adding up to the simple fact that soe doesn't care for their customers. 

Combining those two aspects is what kills any potential excellence they have.  The station pass is filled with a ton of games that "could be great if soe would just....". 

  Bob_Blawblaw

Novice Member

Joined: 1/11/06
Posts: 1314

2/09/11 12:27:00 PM#34

For the record, they never apologized for the NGE. They apologized for the way they delivered it. To this day they stick to their guns that it was the right thing to do and spew the old line "we were losing 10,000 subs a month!" So they opted to lose them all in one fell swoop instead. Their arrogance lead them to believe we'd be replaced by other far less intelligent players in 6 months.

For me, even if the NGE (that they have today) was the game they shipped with, it would still be an abomination.

I'm a SW fan first. SWG/NGE is an insult to SW fans (pink ewok love fest... where you have to do a quest where you're dipping your twig and berries in a chocolate fountain. Yeah, that's Star Warsy and iconic... ever get the feeling you're being made fun of all you SWG players?)

The issue with SWG, is that SOE just doesn't care, or worse, they seem to resent the IP. The NGE is simply an extension of that attitude.

  User Deleted
2/09/11 12:38:57 PM#35
Originally posted by Kazlin

Comeing from someone ho has been there since day one sure the game launched and had its problems through out but NGE was not SoE it was LA. LA wanted a peice of the WoW pocket saying if we make our game easier to play so new players can pick it up and dive right it with 0 learning curve we could get the money that WoW is generateing.

 

Horseshit, John Smedley fell in love with WoW, sold LA a line of bullshit to get them to allow the change and fucked the game up.  It's that simple.  That is why Pre-CU SWG did not get the fixes it deserved, they had the development team working on a completely different concept than what was originally released.

  Tardcore

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/09
Posts: 2370

"A strange game. The only winning move is not to post."

2/09/11 12:45:07 PM#36
Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

For the record, they never apologized for the NGE. They apologized for the way they delivered it. To this day they stick to their guns that it was the right thing to do and spew the old line "we were losing 10,000 subs a month!" So they opted to lose them all in one fell swoop instead. Their arrogance lead them to believe we'd be replaced by other far less intelligent players in 6 months.

For me, even if the NGE (that they have today) was the game they shipped with, it would still be an abomination.

I'm a SW fan first. SWG/NGE is an insult to SW fans (pink ewok love fest... where you have to do a quest where you're dipping your twig and berries in a chocolate fountain. Yeah, that's Star Warsy and iconic... ever get the feeling you're being made fun of all you SWG players?)

The issue with SWG, is that SOE just doesn't care, or worse, they seem to resent the IP. The NGE is simply an extension of that attitude.

Its not just SWG that has this problem. Numerous SOE Station games have been left to languish. Some games get completely ignored like Vanguard and Planet side. Others, like both EQ games, instead of having their long term problems fixed, get expansions shotgunned out in the hopes of eeking out a bit more cash from the player base. Face it, SOE is nothing better than a digital hospice where terminally ill MMORPGs go to die.

 

As to SOE's handling of SWG, I feel they bungled the game from the starting gate. SWG should have been the first Wow. Instead it was always a halfbaked, broken game that just got worse as time went by.

"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "

  ArcAngel3

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/25/06
Posts: 2941

Momento Mori

 
OP  2/09/11 1:39:54 PM#37
Originally posted by Halibrand

All games have their issues, and SWG had it's share, but I didn't mind because I loved the concept and the game as a whole.  Everyone's problem with the NGE wasn't about a singular issue, but that the entire... gender of the game changed.  It was the old switcheroo: a non-twitch game became a twitch game.  A game without classes or levels and the ability to mix and match as you pleased became... you get the idea.

 

The resentment is because we bought a ticket to see The Matrix, and halfway through it turned into The Notebook.  Or worse, into Matrix 3.  It's the same shock and disappointment as people got from the last episode of The Sopranos, or Battlestar Gallactica (still wish I'd seen every episode BUT that one), or when you get the girl home and THEN notice her adam's apple.  Again.

 

But yeah, SWG had all kinds of other issues before the NGE came along and... I'm going to say 'betrayed it's fans', because in essence that's what it did.  All the issues beforehand weren't anything more than the run-of-the-mill issues that every MMO goes through and its players have to endure.  Still isues, but you don't complain about having a bad-hair-day when you just broke your leg.

 You have a nice way of highlighting a history of problems and explaining why the NGE was a problem of a whole different magnitude.  I think you help people understand why despite the game's many issues, NGE will always stand out, and won't be forgotten, probably no matter how much time passes...it was just that bad.

  Obee

Novice Member

Joined: 8/07/06
Posts: 1560

2/09/11 2:28:13 PM#38
Originally posted by Kazlin

Comeing from someone ho has been there since day one sure the game launched and had its problems through out but NGE was not SoE it was LA. LA wanted a peice of the WoW pocket saying if we make our game easier to play so new players can pick it up and dive right it with 0 learning curve we could get the money that WoW is generateing.

We all know that SWG came with a steep learing curve and that was a good thing for most of us but all the rest of the things posted here sure it was SoE's fault but i do not blame  SoE for the NGE as it has been stated over and over that it was not SoE that wanted it in fact they knew what the outcome would be thats why they didnt annouce it before hand because it wasnt gonna change a thing as LA put there foot down and said we own the IP you will do it this way.

There is alot of issues like this happening in all games lok at WAR the table top game is so huge but useing the IP for a MMO is tough because you have to stay true to the IP ask Mystic about the dwarf mounts they drew up and GW said no that isnt apart of the Lore so you cant do it.

 

I think people really need to let it go SoE appoligiesd over and over for it even if it wasnt there fault they still stood up and took all the punches and bad press and there wasnt much else they could of done.

as much as i love Bioware and they can do no wrong  i have a feeling LA will try to change that game if it dosnt appeal to the way LA wants to make money.

It was SOE that came up with, and pushed for, the NGE.  The former lead designer admitted it on his blog, while telling everyone who disagreed that it was the best thing ever to "eat a dick".  The former lead gameplay designer admitted it right here on this very forum (look for posts by "Dundee".  He explained how the idea went from a newbie space station that could be used as a free trial to the abomination that the is the NGE.  The former Director of Global Communications (and later EQ2 lead producer who was fired for diddling an underling) said it, and claimed to be proud to be part of a company that was willing to do it, on the official forums, answering a post that asked flat out if LEC forced the NGE on SOE.  The Smed has a few times said the NGE came from SOE, not LEC.  Helios (who was on the dev team at the time the NGE was developed, and later lead designer of SWG) explained how some of the decisions were made (he told the lead designer that pets were getting in the way of targeting, and the lead dev said "cut 'em").

Everyone who was involved with the NGE's creation and development has explained it came from SOE, who sold LEC on it.  It was also admitted that the NGE was not intended for the existing playerbase, but was intended to replace the existing playerbase with a new one.  LEC is not innocent, as they should have killed it in the womb.

Also, as has been said by others in this thread, the only appologies that have been made for the NGE were for how it was communicated, not that it was done.

 

  ArcAngel3

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/25/06
Posts: 2941

Momento Mori

 
OP  2/09/11 4:24:46 PM#39
Originally posted by Obee
Originally posted by Kazlin

Comeing from someone ho has been there since day one sure the game launched and had its problems through out but NGE was not SoE it was LA. LA wanted a peice of the WoW pocket saying if we make our game easier to play so new players can pick it up and dive right it with 0 learning curve we could get the money that WoW is generateing.

We all know that SWG came with a steep learing curve and that was a good thing for most of us but all the rest of the things posted here sure it was SoE's fault but i do not blame  SoE for the NGE as it has been stated over and over that it was not SoE that wanted it in fact they knew what the outcome would be thats why they didnt annouce it before hand because it wasnt gonna change a thing as LA put there foot down and said we own the IP you will do it this way.

There is alot of issues like this happening in all games lok at WAR the table top game is so huge but useing the IP for a MMO is tough because you have to stay true to the IP ask Mystic about the dwarf mounts they drew up and GW said no that isnt apart of the Lore so you cant do it.

 

I think people really need to let it go SoE appoligiesd over and over for it even if it wasnt there fault they still stood up and took all the punches and bad press and there wasnt much else they could of done.

as much as i love Bioware and they can do no wrong  i have a feeling LA will try to change that game if it dosnt appeal to the way LA wants to make money.

It was SOE that came up with, and pushed for, the NGE.  The former lead designer admitted it on his blog, while telling everyone who disagreed that it was the best thing ever to "eat a dick".  The former lead gameplay designer admitted it right here on this very forum (look for posts by "Dundee".  He explained how the idea went from a newbie space station that could be used as a free trial to the abomination that the is the NGE.  The former Director of Global Communications (and later EQ2 lead producer who was fired for diddling an underling) said it, and claimed to be proud to be part of a company that was willing to do it, on the official forums, answering a post that asked flat out if LEC forced the NGE on SOE.  The Smed has a few times said the NGE came from SOE, not LEC.  Helios (who was on the dev team at the time the NGE was developed, and later lead designer of SWG) explained how some of the decisions were made (he told the lead designer that pets were getting in the way of targeting, and the lead dev said "cut 'em").

Everyone who was involved with the NGE's creation and development has explained it came from SOE, who sold LEC on it.  It was also admitted that the NGE was not intended for the existing playerbase, but was intended to replace the existing playerbase with a new one.  LEC is not innocent, as they should have killed it in the womb.

Also, as has been said by others in this thread, the only appologies that have been made for the NGE were for how it was communicated, not that it was done.

 

 Soo much more going on here than a simple game change that people didn't like, which is often how the NGE is portrayed these days.  One honest mistake that unreasonable gamers refuse to let go of?  I really don't think that description fits the SWG situation...at all.  And, judging from the responses, my perspective is not unique.

  therain93

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/01/06
Posts: 2048

"Racing to endgame is like racing to the end of your vacation."

2/09/11 5:28:59 PM#40
Originally posted by Murashu
Originally posted by amimia

since SOE owns SWG im surprised they dont just restore the servers back to the original SWG and try to get some of their members back. Man I miss playing that game.

They originally claimed that the code was lost when they created the NGE and later said it was too late, that switching back to the old code would be like creating another NGE for the existing player base.

 

Personally I would rather someone take all the great things that were in SWG and put them into a newer MMO with improved graphics and animations without all the bugs, but devs seem more interested in trying to duplicate WoW.

 I'm pretty sure George Lucas is feeding us the same line about the original cut of Star Wars....

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