Originally posted by tepthtanis

Oblivion and Rift r 2 totally different games...

 If ppl have to settle for rift as the creme dela creme of Mmos... we are screwed as a collective MMO society... That's all I'm going to say about rift.

"y DOTA or various mods or clones like LOL or HON. and for the RPG element play final fantasy 1-7 im sure that will challenge you,"

I created the first and orginal competitive dota clan.  I have played more dota than anyone period.  i have 2 level 30 lol accounts and i hate lol.  I think its a game for 10 year olds.  i have 2 hon accounts over 1900 psr and also both are over 1800 mmr.  I understand competiive gaming.  i have been playing fpss since delta force 1998 and red alert westwood ladder.  I played uo and AC the best mmo's ever made and honeslty there hasn't been anything close to AC mmo wise just Darkfall is close to it.  Darkfall just doesn't have the Dev team to polish it up and make it a truley epic game.  It's by far the best mmo on the market right now.. Anyone who plays WoW or rift is a kid who should be playing single player games, and realy they honestly dont' care about the competitive aspect of massive online games.    WoW appeals to single players gamers and casuals and thats why it succeeeds.

What WoW has on RIFT?

Let's see what WoW did for this genre shall we?

It introduced questing. If it wasn't for WoW we would've most likely still be killing mobs to level up. WoW is the very first what people call themepark MMO. There were no MMOs like WoW before it. WoW changed the genre as a whole. Now every MMO and it's grandma are following the same formula WoW came up with.

RIFT seems to have done....hmmm...nothing! Lets check stats as well!

WoW at launch vs Rift at launch

1. WoW had more dungeons.

2. Raids are about the same number

3. WoW had a much much larger world than RIFT.

4. WoW had more quests than RIFT

Basically WoW had much more content than RIFT. Currently, WoW has so much more stuff in it compared to RIFT but then again it had 3 expansions. 

WoW changed a lot of things in the genre. It might have not reinvented the wheel but it revamped A LOT, a lot of features and adopted a casual philosophy which was not typical for MMOs before it. RIFT just copy pasted a lot of stuff from WoW and has some rifts thrown in ;)

@fivroth

Everquest II launched over two weeks before World of Warcraft, and it *did* have questing, so you're stating a falsity there. Personally, I'm a little jaded with the current crop of new(er) releases, including DCUO and Rift, so I'm on a hiatus from playing MMOs for a while.

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Originally posted by fivoroth
What WoW has on RIFT?
Let's see what WoW did for this genre shall we?
It introduced questing. If it wasn't for WoW we would've most likely still be killing mobs to level up. WoW is the very first what people call themepark MMO. There were no MMOs like WoW before it. WoW changed the genre as a whole. Now every MMO and it's grandma are following the same formula WoW came up with.

It's obvious to me that you have NO idea what you're talking about. WoW ripped off ideas from other MMOs, and it was NOT the first one to have quests...

RIFT seems to have done....hmmm...nothing! Lets check stats as well!
WoW at launch vs Rift at launch
1. WoW had more dungeons
2. Raids are about the same number
3. WoW had a much much larger world than RIFT.
4. WoW had more quests than RIFT
Basically WoW had much more content than RIFT. Currently, WoW has so much more stuff in it compared to RIFT but then again it had 3 expansions. 
Actually, Rift has much MUCH more features, and better graphics on top of that. 32 classes at launch, 6 races at launch vs. WoW's 2 races at launch and only a few classes. That should tell you one thing right there. And the reason they could have larger land, more quests, etc. is because they had worse graphics and less features. I could give you 100+ features RIFT currently has that WoW still doesn't have. I can give you only 3 things RIFT doesn't have that WoW does.
WoW changed a lot of things in the genre. It might have not reinvented the wheel but it revamped A LOT, a lot of features and adopted a casual philosophy which was not typical for MMOs before it. RIFT just copy pasted a lot of stuff from WoW and has some rifts thrown in--Along with a multitude of other things you have yet to mention.

---

I just want to say, though, to those of you who were expecting RIFT be perfect from launch, from beta even!... You're a pack of idiots... A game will never be perfect from launch, or before it launches. There will always be bugs they need to fix. If you're honestly asking a game to be perfect with vast content and no issues that need to be resolved, you're simply asking too much of a game.

There is not a doubt in my mind that tells me that RIFT won't be successful. It will be a successful game, especially with all the hype and advertising. Now whether it will be a "WoW killer" or not, that's for time to tell, but chances are it won't be, but it WILL be successful.

And there is no such thing as a "WoW clone" or "WoW ripoff". WoW ripped of many other games, so really you can't rip off WoW. That would be saying Call of Duty ripped off Duck Hunt. We might as well say all MMOs ripped off the original Dungeons & Dragons.
I'm literally laughing at all those who think WoW is an original game. It's a good game, don't get me wrong, it's just not unique in any way, shape, or form.

Originally posted by Kovenant

This Games Pawns WOW.

Am I the only one laughing at this? Dunno but it made my day.. :D It should become a meme.

Originally posted by Vespura

 

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Originally posted by fivoroth
What WoW has on RIFT?
Let's see what WoW did for this genre shall we?
It introduced questing. If it wasn't for WoW we would've most likely still be killing mobs to level up. WoW is the very first what people call themepark MMO. There were no MMOs like WoW before it. WoW changed the genre as a whole. Now every MMO and it's grandma are following the same formula WoW came up with.

 

It's obvious to me that you have NO idea what you're talking about. WoW ripped off ideas from other MMOs, and it was NOT the first one to have quests...

RIFT seems to have done....hmmm...nothing! Lets check stats as well!
WoW at launch vs Rift at launch
1. WoW had more dungeons
2. Raids are about the same number
3. WoW had a much much larger world than RIFT.
4. WoW had more quests than RIFT
Basically WoW had much more content than RIFT. Currently, WoW has so much more stuff in it compared to RIFT but then again it had 3 expansions. 
Actually, Rift has much MUCH more features, and better graphics on top of that. 32 classes at launch, 6 races at launch vs. WoW's 2 races at launch and only a few classes. That should tell you one thing right there. And the reason they could have larger land, more quests, etc. is because they had worse graphics and less features. I could give you 100+ features RIFT currently has that WoW still doesn't have. I can give you only 3 things RIFT doesn't have that WoW does.
WoW changed a lot of things in the genre. It might have not reinvented the wheel but it revamped A LOT, a lot of features and adopted a casual philosophy which was not typical for MMOs before it. RIFT just copy pasted a lot of stuff from WoW and has some rifts thrown in--Along with a multitude of other things you have yet to mention.

---

 

 

I just want to say, though, to those of you who were expecting RIFT be perfect from launch, from beta even!... You're a pack of idiot... A game will never be perfect from launch, or before it launches. There will always be bugs they need to fix. If you're honestly asking a game to be perfect with vast content and no issues that need to be resolved, you're simply asking too much of a game.

There is not a doubt in my mind that tells me that RIFT won't be successful. It will be a successful game, especially with all the hype and advertising. Now whether it will be a "WoW killer" or not, that's for time to tell, but chances are it won't be, but it WILL be successful.

And there is no such thing as a "WoW clone" or "WoW ripoff". WoW ripped of many other games, so really you can't rip off WoW. That would be saying Call of Duty ripped off Duck Hunt. We might as well say all MMOs ripped off the original Dungeons & Dragons.
I'm literally laughing at all those who think WoW is an original game. It's a good game, don't get me wrong, it's just not unique in any way, shape, or form.

WoW had 8 races and 9 classes each with 3 specs, at launch...lol. Don't bash someone for lack of knowledge when you clearly don't have it either.

I would like to see that list of 100 features. I bet I could show how wow has it too since you couldn't even get the basic wow knowledge down.

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Originally posted by Drekker17
WoW had 8 races and 9 classes each with 3 specs, at launch...lol. Don't bash someone for lack of knowledge when you clearly don't have it either.

I was just going off what I have been told about the races, I didn't play since vanilla, so I wouldn't know, but I guess I was wrong about that then. Everything else I said was pretty accurate though. I tried to find info on it on the internet, but I couldn't find anything.

I would like to see that list of 100 features. I bet I could show how wow has it too since you couldn't even get the basic wow knowledge down.

---

Well, the original list had 100+, but a lot of it was opinionated, so I deleted them. A lot of these still are, but they make sense and are mostly facts. These aren't just features though, it's general really. Still, here you go.
1: AoE looting
2: Shinier graphics, generally more polished and better organized as well
3: Customizable UI out of the box
4: Rifts
5: Character customization is much better
6: Any class can do any role in a dungeon
7: The game will continue to get better as it expands.
8: No "Druid" shapeshift nerfs
9: Reclaiming materials from old gear
10. The talent system is mind-blowing (3 active classes/trees, 6 classes altogether)
11: Offensive healers
12: Good tree graphics
13: Smooth and diverse animations
14: Water actually looks like water
15: The map! It zooms!
16: Dances aren't all pop-culture references
17: One-click import for UI from character to character
18: Better lore (in my opinion)
19: Not limited to 1 talent tree
20: The game isn't full of idiots and 10 year olds
21: 32 classes
22: Invasions
23: Items you can buy to open rifts
24: Hearthstone doesn’t take an inventory slot
25: Support classes
26: Better racials, even if it's only 6, and they're not all fugly or bulky
27: 'Tis new and fresh
28: talent tree decision making (you need 31 points in a tree to get to the top, but you need 51 points (ie, one spec entirely) to acquire every spell that tree has to offer)
29: PvP only souls, which implies that balance between pve and pvp may wind up not impacting each other later on.
30: The beginner backpack has 20 slots
31: When one member enters an instance, other members get teleported in.
32: No elitists, because the game is brand new
33: Dungeons are harder and you actually have to think. Even the first 2 dungeons have tactics that will wipe you when people fail and are more difficult that cata heroics where at the start. They also have better loot inside.
34: Being able to do decent dps as a healer when the tank is fully hotted.
35: Public raid option for rifts.
36: Never needing more than 4 characters to enjoy every class aspect of the game.
37: The ability to stack items in units higher than 20.
38: Devs actually listen to community
39: Doesnt take 2 months to fix obvious problems
40: You can'y fly everywhere (+For me!)
41: World PvP
42: PvP Players have a loot table
43: Cleric tanking
44: Devs speak to us across our screens and are actually funny and engaging.
45: No gearscore
46: Fewer assholes
47: Feels more like an old school mmo than WoW's newer style
48: Dynamic cycle of dominant builds in pvp like in GW.
49: World is more dynamic and ever-changing
50: Weather cycles
51: Loads of wow fanboys will stay away (haters gonna hate)
52: More D&D high fantasy than steampunk comedy
53: Devs don't lie
54: Poisons stay on daggers until YOU swap them, no refresh every 60 mins
55: WoW looks like poop on low-end graphics, Rift still looks good
56: Faction Vendors in the big cities
57: Machines actually look realistic, and still leave a fantasy setting
58: Armor and weapons look more real than the WoW gear
59: Buyable blues for low levels
60: Get mounts in three different levels, lvl20, 40 and 50. 60%, 100% and 110%
61: The Rift elements will fight among them selfs (fire will attack water...ect) and can take over towns.
62: It's something different after almost 6 Years
63: Players will have to learn the fight as there will be no "deadly boss mods" addons (skill > addons)
64: Artifact collections > Archaeology and give ANY class epic gear!
65: Nightblades stealth does not last forever, it lasts 60 seconds and after you leave it its on a 10s CD.
66: You don't need to reroll classes if you don't like your class.
67: "Hunters" Can shoot in melee range
68: Sounds muffled underwater adds to realism.
69: The new Guild banner idea in rift is unreal, and I'm shocked wow devs have not thought about it to bring back world pvp and improve guilds.
70: No "gaps" in professions (name one crafted staff in WoW for example, archaeology doesn't count obviously)
71: The game setting is much like The Shattering (pre-cata event)
72: Taunts actually doing something in PvP
73: No unbalances between classes/no op'd classes
74: Able to put what stats you want on gear from the start of your profession.
75: Servers are not all the same. PvE servers actually change PvE, and PvP servers actually change PvP
76: Armor dyes
77: Exploration is awarded with artifacts and other hidden goodies
78: You won't get "uber gear" for less than "uber effort" (dev quote)
79: Level requirements have been removed from the previously-level 20 mounts. If you can get to them, and can afford them, you can use them. This includes the Collector's Edition turtle mount.
80: It's only just beginning so can only really improve if devs continue to listen to players.
81: Devs are actually trying to fight gold spammers/hackers/etc.
82: Related to 111. - lvl 1-9 chat can be turned off, basically the chat is broken down so that you can view only the character level you wish to view. Basically you can turn off low level Gold spammers and "Barrens" chat if the gold spammers get in by not using their bots.
83: Looting while mounted.
Attacking while mounted
84: Every zone has a ward boss you can summon if you can control all the wardstones.
85: Not as many retarded trolls that think their inept comments are rofltastico status.
86: The game is totally engaging right out of the gates, there is always something to do, it's fun, lively and all around.
87: All Endgame raids will be 20 man, no "easymode 10m" versions.
88: There is, however, specific 10m content
89: Loot is dynamically awarded based on your contribution to the group
90: Same Gear stats are used for both Caster clerics and Melee clerics. Spell stats are converted to Melee stats via the soul tree.
Spell crit = melee crit , spellpower = attack power, etc.
91: Horde vs. Alliance feel again.
92:Gods vs technology conflict in Rift, reflects real life well.
93: The players realize an MMORPG is a video game, not life.
94: DIVERSITY.
95: (Opinion) For me, it really sucked me in... I really got into my character and felt like I was HIM. It was pretty realistic. I still understood it was a game, unlike many people who play WoW, however, which is a good thing. This way, I don't feel like it's sucking my soul and I'm beginning to die as I play it.

Please understand however, I have only played a little bit of Rift beta, and I have yet to play the full game

LOL both suck...

lets face it... they both are THEME PARK MMOs

start from point A... go to point Z... end of game.  they throw you a BG and a raid dungeon to keep you busy till they can pump out another expansion.

for simpler terms....

its the ole carrot tied to a string attached to a stick dangling in front of you.  you follow it where they dangle it.

rift is the same old thing.  doesnt matter how much less it has then WOW.. or how much this is different..

ITS THE SAME BUSINESS MODEL and SAME THEME PARK GAME. 

reach into those pocket books in about 6 months to a year for your new content so you wont be bored.

These are just my first impressions but immediately logging into Rift, I could tell it was not like WoW in atmosphere at all. To me, 80% of what makes up a game is the game world itself and all of the flavors associated with it. One can just tell, looking at a screenshot of both games, that there is very little in common between the two games as far as the world goes. The art direction is completely different, the way the world is organised is different on many points, and the way the story is written into the game is different (the quests aren't the only way to learn about the story of the game, the puzzle quests, the hidden quests, etc.).

The UI is to my eyes the thing that is the most WoW-like about the game. That's not necessarily a bad thing, and also one should keep in mind that this sort of UI is pretty much common to many MMOs and RPGs. Rift's UI is an improvement of the UI WoW ships with much like LotRO's was. I'd say that Rift actually borrowed more from LotRO than from WoW in some cases.

Many other elements of the game come from many different games: combat is pretty much a mix of DAoC, WoW, and EQ2, classes are also a mix of many other games with a few new elements thrown in (like the mage spell meter), tradeskills seem to have LotRO and WoW elements, collections and books are from EQ2, mob layout is more like WAR's or even one of the older MMOs, mob aggro and range is more like the older MMOs, etc.

The rifts are pretty new in the sense that the invasions that spawn from unchecked rifts can steamroll areas bringing a feeling of dynamics that other games don't really have. The closest was TR in that sense, but in TR you couldn't ever totally get rid of the mob spawns like you can in Rift. In WAR, PQs could be ignored, whereas in Rift, it's best not to ignore them.

Having the option of exploring, collecting artifacts and books, finding hidden quests, looking at an interesting game world mixed with some questing, PvP and rifting makes this game really compelling to me. Right out of the gate, Rift has more elements one can do than WoW has, and I hope that Trion will build on this.

Originally posted by willvas

LOL both suck...

 

lets face it... they both are THEME PARK MMOs

 

start from point A... go to point Z... end of game.  they throw you a BG and a raid dungeon to keep you busy till they can pump out another expansion.

for simpler terms....

 

its the ole carrot tied to a string attached to a stick dangling in front of you.  you follow it where they dangle it.

rift is the same old thing.  doesnt matter how much less it has then WOW.. or how much this is different..

ITS THE SAME BUSINESS MODEL and SAME THEME PARK GAME. 

 

reach into those pocket books in about 6 months to a year for your new content so you wont be bored.

word

how are people so blind not to see this is just a huge copy / paste job of wow...are there really that many people looking for a wow with just a lil updated grafics? and i c see many people saying "well its polished" well.. im no fan boie of wow by any means..but yur saying wow isnt polished atm? and with the new patch comeing people are giveing the theampark / dungen finder soo much praise like its the next comeing of god...people plz..these things are the norm in mmo's now and have been for awhile ..some just look diff but still have the same results..finding you some tard that you had never met before and has no clue on how to be social or even how to play a mmo..end result..if it looks like a duck walks like a duck and quacks like a duck..its a duck ..people need to pull their heads out their arses and stop acting like this is the best mmo ever made..its far from it...if you enjoy it fine..great even ..but i enjoy pie but you dont see me throwing it in everyones face

You do realise the name Trion is also the name of part of the Arcatraz (for non-wow players this is a dungeon from the first world of warcaft expansion).

This should speak volumes about Rifts' makers original intent (conspiracy theory ahoy!).

Lol @ Rift PvP that's all I've got to say.

I am enjoying Rift so far, but WoW has some type of magic that pulls me back to it.  I have subs for both of them.  Cant seem to let wow go for some reason.

Originally posted by Tyrantas

Lol @ Rift PvP that's all I've got to say.

I actually enjoy the pvp more in Rift then in WoW, but then again I play a sentinel cleric in pvp and get aided by teammates (and yes I do pug pvp) who come to my rescue from pesky rogues who think they can kill me :P

Originally posted by Silverthorn8

You do realise the name Trion is also the name of part of the Arcatraz (for non-wow players this is a dungeon from the first world of warcaft expansion).

This should speak volumes about Rifts' makers original intent (conspiracy theory ahoy!).

Trion may refer to the following: Link.

Trion Worlds, Inc. was founded as Trion World Network by Lars Buttler and Jon Van Caneghem in 2006.

And I quote "At Trion, which Buttler and game designer Jon Van Caneghem founded in January 2006 <>"

Large companies like these don't come up with a company name overnight. It takes time and the name has to be backed by an appropriate marketing strategy.

Tempest Keep, The Arcatraz (with Stasis Block: Trion inside it) released with the Burning Crusade.

"World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade (aka TBC), the first expansion for World of Warcraft, was announced on October 28th, 2005 and released on January 16th, 2007 in North America, Europe, and Australia <>"

Source

Feel free to make a 'conspiracy theory' out of these facts.

Originally posted by nblitz

Originally posted by Silverthorn8

You do realise the name Trion is also the name of part of the Arcatraz (for non-wow players this is a dungeon from the first world of warcaft expansion).

This should speak volumes about Rifts' makers original intent (conspiracy theory ahoy!).

Trion may refer to the following: Link.

 

Trion Worlds, Inc. was founded as Trion World Network by Lars Buttler and Jon Van Caneghem in 2006.

And I quote "At Trion, which Buttler and game designer Jon Van Caneghem founded in January 2006 <>"

Large companies like these don't come up with a company name overnight. It takes time and the name has to be backed by an appropriate marketing strategy.

 

Tempest Keep, The Arcatraz (with Stasis Block: Trion inside it) released with the Burning Crusade.

"World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade (aka TBC), the first expansion for World of Warcraft, was announced on October 28th, 2005 and released on January 16th, 2007 in North America, Europe, and Australia <>"

Source

 

Feel free to make a 'conspiracy theory' out of these facts.

So you think it's just a coincidence then? I must admit, I've been playing around 3 1/2 weeks now and although I'm loving the game (actually exploring a world rather than sitting in a city admiring my flying mount). There are a lot of blatantly plagiarised ideas.

I think a bit more originality would have made this game unbeatable in the themepark mmo genre. For now it's a nice alternative, the more it is updated the better, 1.2 patch is looking good:)

Originally posted by Silverthorn8

Originally posted by nblitz

Originally posted by Silverthorn8

You do realise the name Trion is also the name of part of the Arcatraz (for non-wow players this is a dungeon from the first world of warcaft expansion).

This should speak volumes about Rifts' makers original intent (conspiracy theory ahoy!).

Trion may refer to the following: Link.

 

Trion Worlds, Inc. was founded as Trion World Network by Lars Buttler and Jon Van Caneghem in 2006.

And I quote "At Trion, which Buttler and game designer Jon Van Caneghem founded in January 2006 <>"

Large companies like these don't come up with a company name overnight. It takes time and the name has to be backed by an appropriate marketing strategy.

 

Tempest Keep, The Arcatraz (with Stasis Block: Trion inside it) released with the Burning Crusade.

"World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade (aka TBC), the first expansion for World of Warcraft, was announced on October 28th, 2005 and released on January 16th, 2007 in North America, Europe, and Australia <>"

Source

 

Feel free to make a 'conspiracy theory' out of these facts.

So you think it's just a coincidence then? I must admit, I've been playing around 3 1/2 weeks now and although I'm loving the game (actually exploring a world rather than sitting in a city admiring my flying mount). There are a lot of blatantly plagiarised ideas.

I think a bit more originality would have made this game unbeatable in the themepark mmo genre. For now it's a nice alternative, the more it is updated the better, 1.2 patch is looking good:)

Yes it's a coincidence. I'm sure of it. Especially since the name has a meaning, as a regular word. Had it been something else unique only to WoW then yes I would've thought rip off too.

But that's only the name lol. I won't argue about everything else being a rip off of something else.

"I think a bit more originality would have made this game unbeatable in the themepark mmo genre."

Maybe :) I guess we'll never know now. They missed the boat completely.

Originally posted by odinsrath

 

word

how are people so blind not to see this is just a huge copy / paste job of wow...are there really that many people looking for a wow with just a lil updated grafics? and i c see many people saying "well its polished" well.. im no fan boie of wow by any means..but yur saying wow isnt polished atm? and with the new patch comeing people are giveing the theampark / dungen finder soo much praise like its the next comeing of god...people plz..these things are the norm in mmo's now and have been for awhile ..some just look diff but still have the same results..finding you some tard that you had never met before and has no clue on how to be social or even how to play a mmo..end result..if it looks like a duck walks like a duck and quacks like a duck..its a duck ..people need to pull their heads out their arses and stop acting like this is the best mmo ever made..its far from it...if you enjoy it fine..great even ..but i enjoy pie but you dont see me throwing it in everyones face

 WoW took what worked of the games that went before it and put them together in a well-polished product: There is little in WoW that had not been done before.

Rift took what worked of the games that went before it, such as WoW, and put them together in a well polished product. There are elements that have been done before (invasions or rifts) and evolved those into something fairly new. 

It makes a good base game from which to develop further. If they dont capitalize on this potential I will be disappointed, but it won't detract from what is has accomplished.

I no longer play WoW and I do now play Rift.

Rifts are the same thing every time and they are in the same place every time. All they do is piss me off. Plus, there's no nuetral enemies, so no matter what I'm being attacked. F*** that game, I'm playing WoW until GW2 comes out.