Bye then. Can I has ur stuffs?

Originally posted by BlueMountain

Originally posted by odinsrath

 

word

 

how are people so blind not to see this is just a huge copy / paste job of wow...are there really that many people looking for a wow with just a lil updated grafics? and i c see many people saying "well its polished" well.. im no fan boie of wow by any means..but yur saying wow isnt polished atm? and with the new patch comeing people are giveing the theampark / dungen finder soo much praise like its the next comeing of god...people plz..these things are the norm in mmo's now and have been for awhile ..some just look diff but still have the same results..finding you some tard that you had never met before and has no clue on how to be social or even how to play a mmo..end result..if it looks like a duck walks like a duck and quacks like a duck..its a duck ..people need to pull their heads out their arses and stop acting like this is the best mmo ever made..its far from it...if you enjoy it fine..great even ..but i enjoy pie but you dont see me throwing it in everyones face

 WoW took what worked of the games that went before it and put them together in a well-polished product: There is little in WoW that had not been done before.

Rift took what worked of the games that went before it, such as WoW, and put them together in a well polished product. There are elements that have been done before (invasions or rifts) and evolved those into something fairly new. 

It makes a good base game from which to develop further. If they dont capitalize on this potential I will be disappointed, but it won't detract from what is has accomplished.

I no longer play WoW and I do now play Rift.

LOL did you know WOW at launch?  LOL it wasnt polished at all.  actually it was so bug ridden.  I remember when it shut down for a day because of problems.  Oh and did you know PVP wasnt in WOW at launch.

So I hardly think they took all that worked in the past when they made the game.  WOW lived off its RTS games popularity.  It was a world famous RTS.  which by the way is still played strongly in many countries including CHINA.  heck China even has its own TV show showing how to play the Warcraft RTS.  Funny huh?  yeah these guys play it religiously. 

well with that popularity they brought in all these NEW mmo players.  before a top game only made around 300k subs.  Since WOW, most think thats nothing.  But companies were making money off of less then 300k easily. 

you are missing the boat here.  MMO companies are being driven by GREED now.  NOT BY QUALITY.  If you think WOW and RIIFT are top quality games, i think you need to sit down and take a breather. 

Most game companies look at BLIZZARD and its famous WOW MMO and want a piece of the pie.  Rift just takes the business model of Blizzard and throws in a few extra cookies.  Theme park MMOs are nothing but highway robbery.  they give you limited gameplay experience... WOW, and RIFT... once you reach top level... there is not much else to do.  You ran thru all their content.  And you wont get anymore UNTIL.......

next expansion

they want YOUR MONEY.  GO back in time before 1995... most MMO companies, put content into games FOR FREE... it was part of your MONTHLY SUBSCRIPTION.  But since Blizzard found a way to rob you more... most companies are following along.

Go try Asherons Call.  excellent game done by Turbine.  there is so much content in that game it will keep you busy for years.  and it does.  they only pumped out 1-2 expansions in about 10+ years its been open.  And have consistently brought out new content.  Only problem with this game is that the graphics are outdated now.  So nobody wants to play it anymore. 

But dont be fooled by whats quality and whats simply robbing you of your money.  They are first getting rich off of you buying their game.  Then they take your 15 dollars each month.  do the math and see how much they are making each month and how much on sales alone.  its not nearly what you deserve for the money everybody pumps out. 

Whats even worse... this trend is happening too often that MMO companies are using this method to get rich quick.  pumping out a crappy game with LOTS OF HYPE... just to make a quck buck.

So you ask yourself... (i have been playing MMOs for over 10 years now).. as a paying customer... are they pumping enough content for you.. FOR FREE.... with the money you and MANY OTHERS... have given them?  for Rift i would say NO.  You can get to 50 pretty quickly and get thru their quest content pretty quickly. 

go try Asherons call and see how much content they have.  make sure you get on their busiest server or you will see ghost towns.  these games have content oozing from your ears.  and most of it was free. 

so keep those horse blinders on and keep reaching into the pocket book OR start to realize how these MMO companies are starting to just rob people

its up to us to stop giving them OUR MONEY and start demanding more quality.

Yes, I recall the launch of WoW. I've been around online gaming almost as long as it has existed.

Please bear in mind that your belief as to what the game companies are after may be surely true at the business level: That is what business is about. It would be very strange, even alarming were a business not in business for the sake of seperating you from your dollars to their own profit.

What I want to know from you at this point is what manner of thinker are you to have expected anything else? 'Fire is hot' is about as revelatory as the gist of what you are saying. What did you think they were in business to do?

The companies are populated by people, each an individual. Your beliefs about them are no more than beliefs if you think them the same as one another, or the same as their company.

So all that being said, what was your point?

Originally posted by BlueMountain

Yes, I recall the launch of WoW. I've been around online gaming almost as long as it has existed.

Please bear in mind that your belief as to what the game companies are after may be surely true at the business level: That is what business is about. It would be very strange, even alarming were a business not in business for the sake of seperating you from your dollars to their own profit.

What I want to know from you at this point is what manner of thinker are you to have expected anything else? 'Fire is hot' is about as revelatory as the gist of what you are saying. What did you think they were in business to do?

The companies are populated by people, each an individual. Your beliefs about them are no more than beliefs if you think them the same as one another, or the same as their company.

So all that being said, what was your point?

 LOL you really are trying to sound smart.  But kudos for you for trying.  The questions you asked were already answered above.  But for your sake, I will re-answer. 

I would seriously have to give you a history lesson on business if I were to fully explain this but I dont feel like doing it.  So I will keep this is as short as possible.  I never said they werent in this for the money at the start.  However if you correctly read my post you would have noticed I said that the "QUALITY" has gone down and we are paying more for our online gaming.  Now as trends usually go, it never stops there because WE as customers let it happen to us.

I have stated in the past, that you notice how there are "cash shops" now to suck more money out of the customer.  Downloadable content on platforms... etc etc.  what can these companies squeeze out of our pockets the most and pump out as little quality at the same time. 

is this a good trend?  if you think so, then there is no help for you because you stick your head in the sand. 

other then that...  want more info? read the above previous post.

You didn't add anything to what you said before. You simply have a problem with companies trying alternative business models to increase profits.

Me, I'd like to see the people working on the games to make a living, and I don't much mind they looked at the Asian MMO business model and learned from it.

As for whether you think I'm smart, well, your 'think' doesn't make a difference to me.

Originally posted by BlueMountain

You didn't add anything to what you said before. You simply have a problem with companies trying alternative business models to increase profits.

Me, I'd like to see the people working on the games to make a living, and I don't much mind they looked at the Asian MMO business model and learned from it.

As for whether you think I'm smart, well, your 'think' doesn't make a difference to me.

 Listen man, if you actually played online gaming for so long then you should see the trend yourself. 

in the past, you would pay 10 dollars per month for an MMO.  and lot less for the actual game.  we pay more money for a game and more sub per month for the game.  And now they are adding cash shops for even a sub playing game. 

will it end there?  no it wont.  it will get worse because companies are greedy and want to make money.

now when i said QUALITY... yes quality has gone down if you actually played since the year 2000 or before. 

LIVE EVENTS:  constant live events.  you had different kinds.  attacks on cities, storyline events that brought in a mass of storyline quests. not to mention constant regular quests added in. ALL FOR FREE because we pay subscription for this stuff. 

live events to day are barely existent.  Most worlds are stale now.  same old world nothing happening.  Rifts decided to automate it but you can tell it gets quite boring pretty fast because its the same thing over and over again.  When you get a live event it is should be different like it use to.  I remember my first time going to see a huge live event to watch Asheron face off his enemy.. forgot his name... its been so long. 

anyway, it was super cool.  Then these quests were added in to follow along with this story.  It really felt like the world was alive that you played in.

Nowadays you dont get too much content added in for free.  its given thru expansions.  So what does our 15 dollars really go for now.  and dont say running the servers and payrolls.  They make more then enough thru our subs to cover that and more. 

this is where greed has come in.  YOU are willing to accept less for the amount of money we give them.  but you have to really think about how much money they make nowadays.  Its why all these big companies are buying out these small companies.   They see this as a cash cow now.  Warner brothers?  are you kidding me?  what are they doing in the gaming industry?  well i know why... they see $$$$$$$. 

in the past top quality games only reached about 300k and those companies that only charged 10-15 dollars per month kept the game updated... kept content flowing in... and still made lots of money.  hell turbine made so much money they grew from a small company to a big one.. even buying out microsoft for the Asherons Call franchise.  made more then enough money to pump out many MMOs like Dungeon and Dragons Online, AC2, and LOTRO.   Mythic another small compnany that pumped out DAOC which had a longevity of maybe 2 strong years then started to die down and still pumped out another MMO with warhammer before being bought out by EA. 

they were still able to make a nice chunk of money. 

in anycase, if you cant see it.  Then you continue to put that head in the sand.  I have been there to see what quality gaming is with the money we give.  YOu can call it me hating companies but i call it me not seeing my money being to good use.  I see it going into their pockets and giving us far less then we use to get. 

Money these days is worth less than it was in those days. Look around. How much did you pay for a gallon of gas when EQ opened? How much is it today? That is why things are more expensive: each dollar buys less than it would have years ago... and MMOs aren't all that expensive anyway, even today.

I bet if we did the math, factoring for the change in value per dollar, MMOs charging $50 and $15/Mo are actually charging us less than ever.

I do prefer the subscription-based model rather than the Asian model of offering free or inexpensive basics and expensive micro-transactions for desirable extras.

I'm not convinced quality has gone down, but it is definitely more expensive to be creative that is sure. I think you are missing the boat though when you ascribe the causes to greed. Consider how much these things are now costing to develop and then look around at the number of complete or near failures. There is a significant disincentive against trying anything new.

Then again look at how the playerbase tends to treat any game. Tell me you have the emotional grit to not take offense when no matter what you build the most vocal players diss pitilessly, demand more constantly, and are generally never ever satisfied with anything.

If you invested your pride of craftsmanship in a project, maybe you even considered it artistry, and the loudest voices in your player community ripped it to shreds without the first shred of mercy, no compliments, only complaints... how long are you going to continue to invest your heart and soul into it?

Not long, I'd wager.

So, in order to make the budget you focus on just doing the job, you focus on the money, and you cut your losses the best you can.

Live event interaction? If I were a GM, not just in this game but any MMO I can think of, even LotRO, I might try running a few live events interactively but not more than that. Players whine and moan and complain... and talk about greedy!

The reason you are seeing what you call 'greed' in the developers is that for the developer there is likely little else in the long run that provides adequate incentive to even keep trying. The cause of any loss in quality isn't 'greed', unless it is the greed of the players to want everything and pay for nothing. 

Originally posted by pauloleson

All the invasions and rifts become a thing of the past, and all you do is sit around waiting for instance ques to take you into a dungeon or battleground. Where, all you do is grind for gear.

This is where they totally dropped the ball.  Those of us who were there at the beginning saw how much fun rifts and invasions can be, but for some crazy reason, they rush players past all that, into an endgame that doesn't make much use of it.  

With such fast leveling, endgame should have opened up into some sort of huge open world rift invasion craziness, maybe even tied into PvP, maybe even more rewarding than just equipment and completionist nonsense.. instead of just funneling everyone into instances for gear.  Did someone step in late in development and tell them to stop with all the rift stuff, because it's not how WoW does it?  Rift impressed me with its strong foundation, so it still amazes me that they failed so completely to build on it.

I quit months ago, but still been checking numbers now and then.  Noticed that this game has now even fallen in popularity behind the likes of Aion.  An inferior game on a number of levels, and now a few years old, but one of the few MMOs with an endgame.

Originally posted by Vhaln

Originally posted by pauloleson

All the invasions and rifts become a thing of the past, and all you do is sit around waiting for instance ques to take you into a dungeon or battleground. Where, all you do is grind for gear.

 

This is where they totally dropped the ball.  Those of us who were there at the beginning saw how much fun rifts and invasions can be, but for some crazy reason, they rush players past all that, into an endgame that doesn't make much use of it.  

 

With such fast leveling, endgame should have opened up into some sort of huge open world rift invasion craziness, maybe even tied into PvP, maybe even more rewarding than just equipment and completionist nonsense.. instead of just funneling everyone into instances for gear.  Did someone step in late in development and tell them to stop with all the rift stuff, because it's not how WoW does it?  Rift impressed me with its strong foundation, so it still amazes me that they failed so completely to build on it.

 

I quit months ago, but still been checking numbers now and then.  Noticed that this game has now even fallen in popularity behind the likes of Aion.  An inferior game on a number of levels, and now a few years old, but one of the few MMOs with an endgame.

 I doubt they are finished. I think they just want to perfect the basic game, be careful and not break it when adding anything. To do that they really have to understand everything and how it works, because in a complex and dynamic formula the slightest change in one element can have major consequences elsewhere.

However, as you point out, the basis of the game is pretty darn solid and well poilished, and the potential of just what we have been shown (rifts, invasions) is tremendous.

On top of that I keep finding lore-clues... which might be only speculative.. I do tend to dream... but it seems like talking with some NPCs reveal intimations about the intended future storyline, and may imply where 'the gods' intend the game to go.

AM I the only that thinks RIFT is more of a EQ2 in similarity here? Others I have found also feel the same way.

"I find it hard to compare Rift to WoW, as it feels like it has stronger roots tied to Everquest and Everquest 2, especially with the extra things such as collections and the massive skill trees."

Vanguard came it to the picture.

"Exactly! Just a different story. You don't buy one RPG and play it over and over.
Both the above comments are true, but I was just wondering about Vanguard is all. Looks similar (but not a rip-off)."

"I would like to start by saying that the rift events reminded me of the Void Storm event in EQ2.  This is not a surprise considering who the lead developer is on RIFT."

I played WoW up to level 80 with my DK and Warlock then left after playing around with Cata new very nice AH. I do not see any thing to grant RIFT as a WoW clone tag.

Originally posted by BlueMountain

Money these days is worth less than it was in those days. Look around. How much did you pay for a gallon of gas when EQ opened? How much is it today? That is why things are more expensive: each dollar buys less than it would have years ago... and MMOs aren't all that expensive anyway, even today.

well money might be worth less but the maximum back there for players were only 300k... and that was top... midline was around 100k and they made money.  nowadays its not even hard to reach 4 times that amount of players.  SO... that means more money  from the more amount of players.  I think that covers the inflation you are referring to. 

I bet if we did the math, factoring for the change in value per dollar, MMOs charging $50 and $15/Mo are actually charging us less than ever.

yet they are still making more money then ever which is why you see bigger companies entering into the genre because they see it as a money monster. 

I do prefer the subscription-based model rather than the Asian model of offering free or inexpensive basics and expensive micro-transactions for desirable extras.

me too

I'm not convinced quality has gone down, but it is definitely more expensive to be creative that is sure. I think you are missing the boat though when you ascribe the causes to greed. Consider how much these things are now costing to develop and then look around at the number of complete or near failures. There is a significant disincentive against trying anything new.

well im not trying to convince you... im telling you flat out that quality has gone down.  Live events do not exist anymore in todays games.  now its just holiday droppings.  what i mean by holiday droppings is that they drop a few decorations in game and some stupid little quests and stupid little items and voila thats it.  other then that... nothing else.  no world events, or attacks... no story line events.. rarely do you see them add any content for free anymore.  Now they want us to pay money for it.  again... the question you need to think about is... what is the 15 dollars going to?  honestly... think hard about it.  and dont say it costs more to run a game.  there are much more players to cover any inflation costs you say there are compared to the past. 

Then again look at how the playerbase tends to treat any game. Tell me you have the emotional grit to not take offense when no matter what you build the most vocal players diss pitilessly, demand more constantly, and are generally never ever satisfied with anything.

well its what happens when you target "young" people.  Etough young poeple dont care about others feelings when you got a computer monitor in front of you.  The community has changed because of the young.  I even seen some older people like my friend who starts to act like the younger crowd.  in the past, people frowned on rudeness... now its almost accepted.  Swearing was frowned on as well and most would jump down your throat if you did. 

but it has changed because of the influx of people coming into the genre and not caring.  its why when you hear a game with low population.. they always state they have a "good community, a helpful community"  well its pretty obvious why. 

If you invested your pride of craftsmanship in a project, maybe you even considered it artistry, and the loudest voices in your player community ripped it to shreds without the first shred of mercy, no compliments, only complaints... how long are you going to continue to invest your heart and soul into it?

Not long, I'd wager.

see this is where you are wrong about me.  If i made such a product... i would care about quality.  And as long as the dollars signs were above the costs of the product.  I would continue with the quality and continue to improve the way I imagined.  And the biggest problems with the big companies are that they hide from the truth.  They dont communicate in full.  they tell you what you want to hear to keep you subbing.  How many times has SOE strung its playerbase along to keep them subbing. 

yes there will always be complainers.  But if you keep open communication on your vision and goals and be truthful then the playerbase can adequately assess if you game is fit for them.  however state false info or future goals that will never be attained well then thats what can angry a playerbase.  releasing a product with few bugs as possible also minimize this.  as of now its becoming too common for people to pay for a game that is still in BETA version.

So, in order to make the budget you focus on just doing the job, you focus on the money, and you cut your losses the best you can.

wrong. this is where you are making excuses for the companies.  They made their money back from the initial release.  thats where these companies bank on.  the initial release income.  the more they spend the more they worry about how much they are gonna make on box sales.  its why bioware wont release yet.  they get ONE SHOT at this.  I know they are trying to pump out a complete game with lots of content with few bugs.  because they are pumping so much money out there and they know the money will be made back with its first month.  if not they will have to keep their players to catch up.  but most games dont spend like bioware.  and do make all their money back just from box sales. 

which will come to ask you again.  then what does the 15 dollars you pay each month go to?  its more then sufficient to cover running costs.  as it is now cheaper for high end internet nowadays. 

Live event interaction? If I were a GM, not just in this game but any MMO I can think of, even LotRO, I might try running a few live events interactively but not more than that. Players whine and moan and complain... and talk about greedy!

well then you agree about live events.  there should be some.  you even state you would run some live events.  But problem is that the game companies arent doing it.  that to me decreases the value of the 15 dollar sub.

we can go even further on this view.  since you brought up gas prices.  in the past gas was cheaper and you got better service.  you got full service when you bought gas... oil checked, windows cleaned, gas pumped for you.  money collected right at your car.  Nowadays, you do everything and pay more for gas.  so has quality gone down?  yes it has.  but you are trying to say it hasnt.  in general terms. 

The reason you are seeing what you call 'greed' in the developers is that for the developer there is likely little else in the long run that provides adequate incentive to even keep trying. The cause of any loss in quality isn't 'greed', unless it is the greed of the players to want everything and pay for nothing. 

wrong there is plenty of incentive.   see this is what will keep players playing.  its why you still see old games with a solid player base and some who keep coming back to it because it has quality attached to it.  Problem is that is OLD.  Its also not eye candy. 

there are tons of reasons why people leave games.  One being bugs.  when a game is launched buggy... well as of now this is becoming the norm and accepted because so many have been released unfinished.  Not enough content in the games.  again released unfinished.  Bored players, another unfinished game or because the world itself is dead, boring, lifeless. 

you say there is a reason called greed... yeah i can see it.  just as much as i see the oil companies being greedy.  less quality and more money for the same product we use to pay for.

another thing... you say we want everything?  and pay for nothing?  60 bucks for a game box.. and 15 dollars for a game is NOT "nothing"... for a company that makes money from you and gives you less is far from asking for everything.  seeing companies pump out unfinished games because they WANT your money or because they didnt PLAN right on how much it would cost to make the game.  so who is really to point fingers at?  heck in the business world alone some of these gaming companies would be laughed at on how bad they are at business... but gaming is an addiction.  And these companies know it.  they will pump out an unfinished game knowing the addicts will buy it because of the hype attached to the game. 

another example.  Look at NIKE... they took their shoes out of America to get cheaper labor.  and still charge more money for their shoes.  One leaving less jobs for Americans and still taking american money.  i call it greed.  you can call it business or anything else you want but there has to be a point in peoples lives when they know they are being taken advantage of for the $$$$.

do you continue to let a con artist take advantage of you or do you do something about it?  I mean can you recognize a wolf in sheeps clothing or do you let the wolf come in?

I'm not sure how best to respond to all this, frankly. Certainly I can see from an idealist standpoint that MMO companies, like every other for-profit company (an exception might be Newman's Own, which puts its profits into charities) can be called greedy, but I do think that there is a metric to such evaluations that argues that some behaviors are normal and acceptible, and not rightly called 'Greedy' in this context because there are other behaviors that are relatively excessive that are rightly called Greedy because they are abnormal and unacceptible.

I don't think Trion Worlds is greedy in this sense, but rather normal among businesses.

in my view there is only one thing missing from wow!political mayhem!(backstabing,allying ,warring )oh we get it in the story line plot,just check what is going on with the forsaken in cataclysm and it open a big can of worm in a hurry,but do player partake in the fun directly?nope has of yet you cant,tera has a small politic system but nothing as simple and insane as aika.in aika you can decide you dont like the boss? lunch an assault!i hope they add political system in wow,i never noticed this before but listening to what is going in the world like usa the congress pretty much hold the power not the president (aside from president veto)etc so when i began to ananlyse this i found that politiqing in gaming could bring a level of insaness that could never be braught to the table by the game designer. in my view aika is still very shy on the politiqing front,maybe eve would be a better game to compare(cant say!dont know eve!)but one thing is sure,politic intrigue in mmo can bring insane amount of life and death in any game if it is designed properly(probably need an ex-politician to disign these)

...US politics is more an RvRvR game between the POTUS, Congress, and the Supremes... with a side issue of competition between the House and Senate... but we are treading on thin ice now talking off-topic politics only tengientially related to Rift.

We should probably get back on topic I'm thinking before we ruffle some feathers in the powers-that-be.

Originally posted by slim26

AM I the only that thinks RIFT is more of a EQ2 in similarity here? Others I have found also feel the same way.

"I find it hard to compare Rift to WoW, as it feels like it has stronger roots tied to Everquest and Everquest 2, especially with the extra things such as collections and the massive skill trees."

Vanguard came it to the picture.

"Exactly! Just a different story. You don't buy one RPG and play it over and over.
Both the above comments are true, but I was just wondering about Vanguard is all. Looks similar (but not a rip-off)."

"I would like to start by saying that the rift events reminded me of the Void Storm event in EQ2.  This is not a surprise considering who the lead developer is on RIFT."

I played WoW up to level 80 with my DK and Warlock then left after playing around with Cata new very nice AH. I do not see any thing to grant RIFT as a WoW clone tag.

Ridiculous convo'. Both in context and content and format.

Look. EQ2 had 2 major redesigns since launch. Was early RIFT anything like early EQ2? No. EQ2 had a certain pace of it's quests, a lack of any solid "quest hubs" in its zones, and a lot of races and classes. That last part I'll give RIFT and early EQ2. WoW came along shortly after EQ2s launch and as someone who was about 9 months into a sub with EQ2 we all saw it was getting its ass kicked by WoW. WoW had a bigger map. The rogue mechanics alone were different; being sorta invis having to stay in mind of where a mob or enemy was facing, hell even the throwing of the stone to turn NPCs around was SO fresh. EQ2 didn't have that, and it gutted a lot of EQ1s classes abilities (the enchanter missing was awful). SO EQ2 had its own NGE sorta and changed a lot of the class and questing mechanics around to; emulate WoW. 

They have came in to their own over the years.

But RIFT & WoW share way too much in common. From quest hub linarity, to class mechanics, to down right mirriored class tree / action activation.

If you guys are trying to say RIFT is more like EQ2 to be ironic. Good job.

Originally posted by King_Kumquat

Originally posted by slim26

AM I the only that thinks RIFT is more of a EQ2 in similarity here? Others I have found also feel the same way.

"I find it hard to compare Rift to WoW, as it feels like it has stronger roots tied to Everquest and Everquest 2, especially with the extra things such as collections and the massive skill trees."

Vanguard came it to the picture.

"Exactly! Just a different story. You don't buy one RPG and play it over and over.
Both the above comments are true, but I was just wondering about Vanguard is all. Looks similar (but not a rip-off)."

"I would like to start by saying that the rift events reminded me of the Void Storm event in EQ2.  This is not a surprise considering who the lead developer is on RIFT."

I played WoW up to level 80 with my DK and Warlock then left after playing around with Cata new very nice AH. I do not see any thing to grant RIFT as a WoW clone tag.

Ridiculous convo'. Both in context and content and format.

Look. EQ2 had 2 major redesigns since launch. Was early RIFT anything like early EQ2? No. EQ2 had a certain pace of it's quests, a lack of any solid "quest hubs" in its zones, and a lot of races and classes. That last part I'll give RIFT and early EQ2. WoW came along shortly after EQ2s launch and as someone who was about 9 months into a sub with EQ2 we all saw it was getting its ass kicked by WoW. WoW had a bigger map. The rogue mechanics alone were different; being sorta invis having to stay in mind of where a mob or enemy was facing, hell even the throwing of the stone to turn NPCs around was SO fresh. EQ2 didn't have that, and it gutted a lot of EQ1s classes abilities (the enchanter missing was awful). SO EQ2 had its own NGE sorta and changed a lot of the class and questing mechanics around to; emulate WoW. 

They have came in to their own over the years.

But RIFT & WoW share way too much in common. From quest hub linarity, to class mechanics, to down right mirriored class tree / action activation.

If you guys are trying to say RIFT is more like EQ2 to be ironic. Good job.

Ya have to admit rift has very similar combat animations (sword  and caster) and dont forget the stealth is a mirror copy of EQ2. At least IMO.

Currently not subbed to any MMORPG. If I'd sub to either Rift or WoW, then to WoW. It just has more replayability, with it's dozen of starting zones instead of two, and dozen classes instead of four.

Originally posted by drbaltazar

in my view there is only one thing missing from wow!political mayhem!(backstabing,allying ,warring )oh we get it in the story line plot,just check what is going on with the forsaken in cataclysm and it open a big can of worm in a hurry,but do player partake in the fun directly?nope has of yet you cant,tera has a small politic system but nothing as simple and insane as aika.in aika you can decide you dont like the boss? lunch an assault!i hope they add political system in wow,...

This will never happen. They will never ever add something that lets the players become involved in the world. Read what the wow lead designer Jeffrey Kaplan thinks:

I think the source is the focus on fun. I think a lot of people got carried away with the concept of an MMO from a very high level of community management, or community manipulation, or an MMO as a social experiment. But what we did when we were working on WoW was focus on the fact that it was a game, and if one person played it all by themselves the game should be fun, and not to rely on traditional MMO thoughts of the time, which was forcing people to interact with each other, forcing a slow progression, and being overly punishing on the players. We just wanted to make an experience that was fun whether you wanted to play it by yourself, or with other people.

http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=5610#68a8e

WoW is a game, not a world. Same with Rift, it's a game, not a world.

Originally posted by grunt187

Originally posted by King_Kumquat

Originally posted by slim26

AM I the only that thinks RIFT is more of a EQ2 in similarity here? Others I have found also feel the same way.

"I find it hard to compare Rift to WoW, as it feels like it has stronger roots tied to Everquest and Everquest 2, especially with the extra things such as collections and the massive skill trees."

Vanguard came it to the picture.

"Exactly! Just a different story. You don't buy one RPG and play it over and over.
Both the above comments are true, but I was just wondering about Vanguard is all. Looks similar (but not a rip-off)."

"I would like to start by saying that the rift events reminded me of the Void Storm event in EQ2.  This is not a surprise considering who the lead developer is on RIFT."

I played WoW up to level 80 with my DK and Warlock then left after playing around with Cata new very nice AH. I do not see any thing to grant RIFT as a WoW clone tag.

Ridiculous convo'. Both in context and content and format.

Look. EQ2 had 2 major redesigns since launch. Was early RIFT anything like early EQ2? No. EQ2 had a certain pace of it's quests, a lack of any solid "quest hubs" in its zones, and a lot of races and classes. That last part I'll give RIFT and early EQ2. WoW came along shortly after EQ2s launch and as someone who was about 9 months into a sub with EQ2 we all saw it was getting its ass kicked by WoW. WoW had a bigger map. The rogue mechanics alone were different; being sorta invis having to stay in mind of where a mob or enemy was facing, hell even the throwing of the stone to turn NPCs around was SO fresh. EQ2 didn't have that, and it gutted a lot of EQ1s classes abilities (the enchanter missing was awful). SO EQ2 had its own NGE sorta and changed a lot of the class and questing mechanics around to; emulate WoW. 

They have came in to their own over the years.

But RIFT & WoW share way too much in common. From quest hub linarity, to class mechanics, to down right mirriored class tree / action activation.

If you guys are trying to say RIFT is more like EQ2 to be ironic. Good job.

Ya have to admit rift has very similar combat animations (sword  and caster) and dont forget the stealth is a mirror copy of EQ2. At least IMO.

Hmm.. AoC and EQ2 shared mo cap more than I'd say RIFT does. RIFT seemed to at least attempted frame by frame, but yeah.. There's not as much reaciton in the animation like in WoW. 

WoW and CoH/V had that (I got knocked down, oh man I don't want that to happen again) reaction to it. While a lot of MMOs seem satisfied with the rock'n'sock'em robots style where you're basically static until you fall. 

I don't think that's a good difference, but hey. +1 for noticing a difference.

I thought RIFT had changed that recently tho'?

I played the WoW trial first a couple months ago, then I played the Rift trial. I'd played f2p mmos since 2005, including several hotkey ones.

Coming in to WoW as a new trial player, my first impression was basically, "I would really like to play this game soon but this p2p client is taking forever, and even though I followed their instructions, I am still having to restart the client every half hour! Even f2p games have direct downloads!" Eventually I got it dl'd enough to start playing, and I was first greeted with...some fairly ugly character models, the new races are apparently a lot better, but those were locked to me. Eventually I picked a human character and was greeted at the starting area by a bunch of npc's going through the same motions of killing wolves over and over again without doing any damage or dying themselves, making the same sounds over and over again. While not exactly surprising in an older game, it was...kind of embrassing to be honest. Like finally meeting this really popular person you hear so much about, that all your friends really like, and there she is...flashing her yellowed granny panties at you after you've just been introduced.

But I got over it and went about questing and...well, there's not a lot to say about that. the questing was the kind found in pretty much any other mmorpg I've played and it was pretty easy to get the hang of. The world that I went through was okay. It wasn't a terrible game, but nothing really sold it to me. I'd played games like this before, and for free. A friend told me that it was because all those f2p games copied WoW, and I can see that. And good for WoW! But the claim of "first!" couldn't really justify me subbing and buying the expansions.

I actually wasn't going to even bother playing the trial of Rift after that, because if WoW was what people meant by a "AAA" MMORPG, then I'd be happy enough skipping AAA's altogether, and playing the bunches of free MMOs available instead.

But one day I was a little bored, and time seemed to crawl due to an upcoming open beta I was looking forward to...and I decided to try Rift while I waited.

The download only took an hour.

Every class was available to me.

Good character models. Not APB:R, but not clunky or super limited either.

I am greeted in a lab after being raised from the dead in order to go back in time to help stop the destruction of the world. The NPCs are killing stuff, they help me if they're nearby, they die if I don't help them. And suddenly I'm playing a game that I don't feel like I've played over and over again, and then two days passed, I'd hit the trial cap, and hellyeah I was gonna sub.

The WoW trial felt a bit like they were throwing a dog a bone. And since then, I hear they've improved it, but it was too little too late, because the Rift trial wooed me. To the point that, if one had never played either before, it's difficult to understand why they'd pick up WoW now, rather than Rift, other than the "my friends are playing this" social aspect.