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News & Features Discussion  » Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning: The Way Back Machine - WAR's First Impression

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61 posts found
  Gorilla

Old School

Joined: 6/07/04
Posts: 2208

2/07/11 11:59:08 AM#41
Originally posted by skeaser
Originally posted by cpthowdy

scenarios killed it. they wanted an open world with RvR but people just went and played the instanced scenarios instead. no wonder the world was empty.

Careful, I've been flamed to death for saying this, but I agree.

I quit when everyone was too busy sc grinding to come take a keep.

Killed it for me too. Especially when they boosted rewards so grinding the same senario over and over became the optimal way to advance your character.

  RudedawgCDN

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/13/04
Posts: 484

2/07/11 12:22:17 PM#42
Originally posted by Yamota


interesting how you highlight the preview and not the review, which scored 8.4 and now that the game is a semi-failure own up on why you scored a poor game that high.

The fact was that the game was not very promising at launch for several reasons:

  • It had only two factions where as both the IP and the fans clearly said it was suitable for atleast three.
  • The games O-RvR was found to be very lacking, even compared to DAoC, so majority ended up playing scenarios.
  • The end-game was not working properly due to massive serverside and engine lag which made it a nightmare.
All these three is indictive of a game that will not end up being a success but MMORPGs review clearly missed that.
 

Pretty well sums it up in a nutshell.

  moonpuncher

Novice Member

Joined: 9/16/10
Posts: 1

2/07/11 12:22:49 PM#43

Hello moronic MMORPG players who insist on hyperbole with every post:  This game isn't dead.  It's doing better than many MMO games on the market.  And even if it were dead, it certainly didn't happen within the first year or so.  The game was wildly successful because it was fun and made tons of money.

It's annoying to watch people use terms like "dead' and "complete failure" just because a game didn't end up being perfect.  It's only the MMO community, too.  You might have liked the last FPS you played, but if the MMO didn't completely replace your real life, you're convinced it was "total trash".

im mad, bro.

  Gorilla

Old School

Joined: 6/07/04
Posts: 2208

2/07/11 12:31:38 PM#44

It absolutely flabbergasts me what passes as 'editorial content' here sometimes. The original piece can be forgiven for being 'lite' as it is a brief preview of the game. Fair enough. Taking this though and topping it and tailing it with a paragraph of fluff is just plain lazy. However, to completely misrepresent what was said in the original piece is inexcusable. Our intrepid reporter starts his insightful deconstruction with... In the end, reading this first look at WAR, it's rather easy to see where the game's strong points lie.  It's criticized for having a lengthy and somewhat pointless PvE level grind, .... I re-read the piece, twice, because I could see nowhere where this was implied let alone said. I still can not. Maybe I missed it in which case I'll step right up and apologise right here and right now.

There was another piece about 'honesty' a while back. At the time I said I did not doubt the integrity of the author but pointed out that other skills are required to write credible pieces.  MMORPG is still the chief portal I use for news and info on this hobby of mine. it is such a shame that a lot of the features are so poor. Sorry to be critical guys, but try harder and apply more rigour.

  User Deleted
2/07/11 12:33:19 PM#45

Fun? Who cares about fun. I want to GRIND and metagame sieges that should have never been in the game and I demand that everyone plays them and I get imba rewards even after the devs clearly show me they do not want me to be there they wish this whole siege shame never happened and put the bait erm rewards elsewhere.

Face it, fun is the last thing we care about, we want leet epix and we want to play the same game over and over for years all day long. That is how you measure if MMO is good, not your fun

  dinams

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 1402

2/07/11 1:06:56 PM#46

The last scenario "rewards" killed it for me, you know that bullshit which you had to grind scenario after scenario to earn a token to get leet gear?

Yeah...scenarios definitely killed RvR, and RvR was the sell point of that game (even if flooded under shit coding..)

"It has potential"
-Second most used phrase on existence
"It sucks"
-Most used phrase on existence

  SBE1

Novice Member

Joined: 6/05/06
Posts: 337

2/07/11 1:30:11 PM#47

Another thing that drives me nuts about these previews/Beta are that they spend 90% of the the time in starter zones or low-level content.  When you make a PvP game, 90% of the live-game time is spent at max level doing PvP.  How in the world can you do an adequate preview of a game when all you see is the starting area and a few scenarios?  While i think the starting area is interesting, I probably spent about 10 minutes of in-game time in the starting area, and hundreds of hours in open RvR.  Simply put, MMORPG previews and quick reviews of PvP focused MMOs are pretty much pointless unless there is something broken in the game.

  DrFrag

Novice Member

Joined: 4/21/04
Posts: 28

2/07/11 8:02:38 PM#48

The biggest issue I had with WAR at the start of the game was the fact that I couldn't play with my friends. If you were as little as two or three levels higher or lower than your friends you couldn't play together. There was no bonus at all for grouping with friends. Leveling was much faster grinding solo through scenarios or pqs.

My friends and I all came from DAOC. We could find fun even if we were 40 levels higher than our friend's new toons. But with WAR, there was no fun to be had unless you were the exact same level.

Further seperating friends from each other were the sheer number of scenarios, rvr areas, etc. For several reasons some people hated the scenarios, while others hated the keep sieges. Some people hated both.

I've never seen a game that was so hostile toward guilds and alliances as WAR. Its almost like they wanted to seperate people.

They also seemed to ignore everything that worked from DAOC. I really just wanted to drive over to Mythic and punch someone in the face.

  Comaf

Elite Member

Joined: 7/13/10
Posts: 1089

I want an mmorpg where pvp matters, my enemies are not my race or class, and community matters.

2/08/11 12:15:30 AM#49
Originally posted by Drew

This week on The Way Back Machine, MMORPG.com's own writer Bill Murphy takes a look back on Managing Editor Jon Wood's initial impressions of Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning from August 20th, 2008.

It wasn't long ago that Mythic's Warhammer Online was crowned as a potential "messiah" for online gamers sick of the WoW phenomenon.  We had a lot of coverage on WAR leading up to its launch, but none are perhaps as indicative of how the game eventually turned out as our First Impressions by Jon Wood back in August of 2008.  Really, it's first impressions that wind up holding the most sway on a player, and this preview is a good example of how WAR was seeming so strong a title from the outset.

Read more here.

 Warhammer can burn in a wastepaper basket for all I care. 

 

@Mythic - Wake up...reinvest in the real mmo you own, i.e., Dark Age of Camelot.

 

@Investors for Bioware/EA -  Profits are your only goal?  Why don't you put some money where your greed is and start looking into just how many players want to play either a graphics engine overall version of Dark Age of Camelot, or a Dark Age of Camelot 2.  My suggestion?  Start by overhauling the graphics and User Interface of Dark Age of Camelot.  Get used to what makes her tic.  Delete things that interfered with her development such as Trials of Atlantis - which had nothing to do with the focus of defending one's realm.

 

After 2 years of learning what makes a unique 3 (THREE) realm mmorpg tic so well, after learning what siege warfare really should look like, after realizing how much fun people had with 8 man RvR teams and fighting between mile gates...then start on Dark Age 2...if you would even need to (I doubt you would).

 

/my two cents but then, what do I know?  I'm just the guy who buys the game, not the all important fat cat sitting in an office with no hands on experience as to what makes an mmorpg successful in this watered down immediate gratification industry.

  Timacek

Novice Member

Joined: 4/12/06
Posts: 182

2/08/11 2:11:23 AM#50

lack of mmorpg feeling, ultimate themepark, no fluff utilities (nothing to do besides fighting) fake economy, no crafting, no social tools (guild only chatbox) everything strictly linear

killed

  binary_0011

Novice Member

Joined: 12/01/04
Posts: 539

Use your common sense.

2/08/11 2:42:23 AM#51
Originally posted by Wicoa

Rift is fine for pvp the warfronts aka scenarios are cross all servers eu and us I think you will find a fight within 5 minutes day or night.  And the better rifts will need to be fought over + theres a keep taking zone coming.

the warfront in RIFT is so boring......a lot of people have already cancel the pre-order..

binary0011 Xfire Miniprofile
  binary_0011

Novice Member

Joined: 12/01/04
Posts: 539

Use your common sense.

2/08/11 2:48:36 AM#52
Originally posted by Gorilla
Originally posted by skeaser
Originally posted by cpthowdy

scenarios killed it. they wanted an open world with RvR but people just went and played the instanced scenarios instead. no wonder the world was empty.

Careful, I've been flamed to death for saying this, but I agree.

I quit when everyone was too busy sc grinding to come take a keep.

Killed it for me too. Especially when they boosted rewards so grinding the same senario over and over became the optimal way to advance your character.

so you rather do that "kill 10 mobs" , "fatch this" , "talk to him/her" repeateable quests?

binary0011 Xfire Miniprofile
  User Deleted
2/08/11 6:53:02 AM#53

My impression of WAR is that Mythic didn't have a clear and defined idea of what kind of game they were making. It seemed very schizophrenic to me. Like their design goal was to be able to check "Yes" next to all playstyles and settings. The result was a game that has its fingertips stuck in several different pies, but doesn't go beyond that. There is no strong core "identity" in WAR that I could ever see while playing it.

I think the fact that there are so many different opinions of what ruined the game in this thread - each dealing with a different game system - also illustrates that.

To me, WAR was a very literal example of Mythic "trying to cater to everyone".  It's also a great example of why that approach isn't necessarily the best to go with.

  User Deleted
2/08/11 6:54:56 AM#54
Originally posted by binary_0011
Originally posted by Gorilla
Originally posted by skeaser
Originally posted by cpthowdy

scenarios killed it. they wanted an open world with RvR but people just went and played the instanced scenarios instead. no wonder the world was empty.

Careful, I've been flamed to death for saying this, but I agree.

I quit when everyone was too busy sc grinding to come take a keep.

Killed it for me too. Especially when they boosted rewards so grinding the same senario over and over became the optimal way to advance your character.

so you rather do that "kill 10 mobs" , "fatch this" , "talk to him/her" repeateable quests?

False dichotomy.

Aside from scenarios or "kill/collect" quests, there are other avenues they could have explored, or found a better balance between those they did.

  Melogore

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/02/09
Posts: 60

2/08/11 9:36:19 AM#55
Originally posted by elocke

It was the PVE game that killed it.  Boring droll, pointless.  The PQs ended up being empty and hardly if ever used.  Even I liked them at first, but something changed past the first tier, I'm not quite sure what.  Maybe because it was more of the same just longer and less exciting to plod through.  The game could literally have had a cap of 10 and done fantastically.  

 

 I agree and I'll add.  The fact that they took a RPG that doesn't have levels. A RPG based on career choices and percential skill, for them to turn it into a level grind was about the dumbest move they could have ever made.  Other nails they drove in their coffin was there total focus on PvP.   One thing I know over all the years on playing MMO's is no matter how good the PvP is the fact that the PvE side of the game was so incomplete and also lacking challenge it would never last.  Don't get me wrong I was in love with the Public quests at the start.  Since they didn't scale though when making alts, public quests weren't even an option to do 1 month after realease. 

I raced to the game store to get it on realease and the first 2 weeks my friends and I were fooled.  Warhammer Online was the first ever MMO were the higher level you got the worse the PvP got.  They promised that they wouldn't have stun locks and stuff like what people face in WoW PvP.  Low and behold stunlocking getting frozed til dead was WAY worse in War.  To there credit they did fix alot of those problems through patches but the main problem of the fall of War was PvE. 

The mobs didn't even have socail aggro on the outside world.  You could litteraly pull mobs one by one even if they were standing right next to each other.  The game dissapointed me so bad, I had so much hopes for the game.  I have all the 2nd addition Warhammer Fantasy Roleplaying books and manuals I had high hopes of a HUGE PvE world with all the lore.  They  somehow destroyed hands down the best roleplaying system of and PnP RPing game. 

I mean Warhammer is one of the few game where you can make a character and be able to adventure with seasoned characters.  Its also one of the few RP games where level doesn't dictate who you can play with.  Wether you are a Rat Catcher or Knight of the Inner Circle a skeleton is still a thtreat and can kill either.  I thought we would be seeing this translated to MMO.  I was pumped, then the game came our and I was leveling and I was like WTF!!!  If they had just taken a chance to be different and used the system and  the world  thats in the books game I feel the game would have been a huge success.  War also has the endless critical damage chance.  Wether you poking with a dagger or weilding a 2hander during a play session you have a chance to kill ANYTHING with one hit.  Basically, it is possible to kill a Dragon with one lucky hit.  Even though the chance would be unlikely it is still possible.  Sadly no MMO will ever let us do that.  They have to have their scripted boss fights where you and I have to get on youtube to find the plan how to kill the bosses. 

All that said though the decided NOT to stick with the books and chose to take a huge diverse would with many different faction and condense them down to two factions and turn a skill based game into a 40 level grinder.   Lol, Dark Elves fighting along side of Orcs, and Chaos.  This crap just doesn't even jive with any lore or even make sense.  I still can't believe Games Workshop just stood by and let them butcher there lore.   Sad man, truely sad.  If they just took the PnP RP books verbatim and translated them to an MMO it would have been a great game.

Sorry about the short novel,  Thanks to all who read all my crap.  I understand if you chose not to. :)

  binary_0011

Novice Member

Joined: 12/01/04
Posts: 539

Use your common sense.

2/09/11 2:14:07 AM#56
Originally posted by WSIMike
Originally posted by binary_0011
Originally posted by Gorilla
Originally posted by skeaser
Originally posted by cpthowdy

scenarios killed it. they wanted an open world with RvR but people just went and played the instanced scenarios instead. no wonder the world was empty.

Careful, I've been flamed to death for saying this, but I agree.

I quit when everyone was too busy sc grinding to come take a keep.

Killed it for me too. Especially when they boosted rewards so grinding the same senario over and over became the optimal way to advance your character.

so you rather do that "kill 10 mobs" , "fatch this" , "talk to him/her" repeateable quests?

False dichotomy.

Aside from scenarios or "kill/collect" quests, there are other avenues they could have explored, or found a better balance between those they did.

get real, no matter what, it will still become old after awhile.

binary0011 Xfire Miniprofile
  luro16

Novice Member

Joined: 5/25/10
Posts: 91

2/09/11 2:01:07 PM#57

My wow guild is a pretty good raiding guild with some serious pvpers in it, and multiple people have said variations of the following.

1. We would all play warhammer if it went F2P.

2. Land of The Dead was this games nail in the coffin, apprently the worst thing ever implimented in the game. (I actually stopped playing before this was introduced, so i'm not terribly familar with what it is, but some of the guys swear by this.  As i understand it, it required you to pvp only so you could unlock a pve instance with had really good gear or something to that effect? In any event, they beleive it ruined rvr in the game, but i can't say for myself)

3. It had pretty damn good art direction, dark fantasy mmoness on a larger budget was nice to see.

4. They really needed to max Destruction less cool.  I know they tried for a long time to fix this, but at launch, EVERYONE was Destruction, and they should have seen ti coming.  I don't know why, but if you look at WoW for example, Horde rules the pvp servers, Warhammer was a pvp game, so it reasons to beleive that the vast majority of pvp people for some reason choose the scary looking group.  And this broke the RVR mechanic for a months, which is why a lot of us wanted to play the game.

I don't even know how they could have fixed that, they were working with a license.

5. Boring level grind.  Games have shown how you can do more then kill 10 of x over and over and over again.

6. Public Quests might have been the best thing they brought to the genre.

and

7. I really miss DAoC

  Tinea

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/27/03
Posts: 67

2/09/11 4:40:49 PM#58

Too much emphasis on Scenarios (and rewards from Scenarios)  took people away from the open world.  However, this might also be to the boring PvE leveling.  Everyone decided it was better to level through Scenarios.  And as mentioned, without people running around the open world, public quests were difficult to complete.

Many of you have already stated something similar to this, so hopefully its not too hard for Mythic to see where they went wrong.  I think DaoC was had its great moments too, but it also had a few problems (aside from everyone bashing ToA, buff bots were another lesson to be learned).  Maybe if Mythic has any money left they can try a third time somewhere down the road and combine the best from both DaoC and WAR.  I personally think DaoC II is their best bet, but that may never happen.

  Teala

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/16/04
Posts: 7396

"Really officer, they're herbs."

2/09/11 5:15:34 PM#59

The same hype that is being put out for Rift that we saw in previous games is at work here.   People predicted Warhammer would hit 2 million subs.   Both Warhammer and Aion were hyped to unhealthy levels.   This is what is happening to Rift.  Rift is less of a game than the total sum of it...it is actually quite shallow.   Two starter zones.   The races all pretty much look the same.  For a fantasy based MMORPG that is sorta sad.   Game looked so promising at first.  I was swept up in the dynamic nature of the Rift's until I got past the first zone and realized that they are all pre-scripted events on timers - never changing.    I soon grew bored and even became aggravated later because the Rift's spawned to frequently.

I saddens me that once again certain people hype up a game to the point that it seems more than what it is.  Rift is the new Warhammer, Aion, LotR, [insert name here], game...and when people falsely hype a game and get people to buy into it...it doesn't hurt the people out for money...they'll get their money one way or another.   We're the ones in the end that get hurt the most.  We gamers are stuck with another boring, lack-luster game.  Thanks but no thanks. 

I will not be buying Rift. 

  EzequielBE

Novice Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 27

2/11/11 8:57:07 AM#60

They should have at least had a taste of endgame before writing reviews. 'endgame' in WaR is about PvP and the latest patch absolutely ruined that. If there ever was a time to return to WaR, now would not be it.

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