Originally posted by stayontarget

To be honest I'm courious about EvE, that one will be hard to figure out unless the company gives you the info.  Also I would expect Tera's launch size to be around the size of WOW vanilla or a tad larger.

It would be impossible for anyone to come up with a comparison of Eve's size, possibly even with the data from CCP. According to my corp CEO (long-time Eve player) there are estimated to be over 5,000 wormhole systems. Many have never been seen by anyone. There's an NPC race out somewhere in wormhole space that no one has seen in several years.

@ the OP: Also, Eve throws a huge wrench in the works of guaging distance by crossing speed. How do you calculate this? There's so many speeds you can travel at. If you go by your standard of "jogging" that would be more or less the equivalent of standard sub-warp speed in Eve, which itself can vary from under 100 meters per second on big ships, to over 1000 meters per second on a fast frigate with an afterburner. (You can go faster with a microwarp drive, but that's not sustainable indefinitely.) But any ship traveling at sub-warp speeds is going to take hours to cross a single system. Maybe days. I'm not sure if anyone's ever done it. Then you have warp speed. Standard frigates warp at 6AU/second. Cruisers warp at 3AU/second. I'm sure there's other ships that warp even faster or slower.

And if you're gauging Eve at warp speed, shouldn't you be gauging other games based on the speed of the fastest mounts people typically have? With all of WoW now being accessible with a flying mount at 310% running speed, that would make the game world much smaller, relative to other games that don't have flying mounts.

Alright, I'm going to update this thread with some info about the so far elusive SW:TOR (regarding size, that is).

The update: Alderaan is 7-8 World of Warcraft Zones in size

That makes Alderaan as big as Outland or almost half of Kalimdor, and that's just one planet (or another comparison: 1 SWTOR planet is almost as large as the entire world of Rift).

Now I don't expect Alderaan being the largest Planet. SWG used the samish 10 x 10 miles grid for its planets, so let's say that SWTOR's normal Planets are an average of 7-8 WoW zones.

An Origin planet was said to be something of a quarter of a normal Planet, so on average 2 zones.

WoW vanilla had 40-45 zones. Outland has 7 zones. WoW post-CATA counts about 60 zones.

So far, 13 normal Planets have been revealed and 4 Origin Planets.

That makes the total size of SWTOR so far about 105 WoW zones.

Or translated: that makes SWTOR at least 2.5 times the size of WoW vanilla and at least 1.7 times WoW post-CATA.

And more planets are still to be revealed, earlier statements hinted at 20, 20+ planets.

The size estimate will be adjusted ofc as more detailed info will become available.

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

Alright, I'm going to update this thread with some info about the so far elusive SW:TOR (regarding size, that is).

 

The update: Alderaan is 7-8 World of Warcraft Zones in size

 

That makes Alderaan as big as Outland or almost half of Kalimdor, and that's just one planet.

Now I don't expect Alderaan being the largest Planet. SWG used the samish 10 x 10 miles grid for its planets, so let's say that SWTOR's normal Planets are an average of 7-8 WoW zones.

An Origin planet was said to be something of a quarter of a normal Planet, so on average 2 zones.

 

WoW vanilla had 40-45 zones. Outland has 7 zones. WoW post-CATA counts about 60 zones.

 

So far, 13 normal Planets have been revealed and 4 Origin Planets.

That makes the total size of SWTOR so far about 105 WoW zones.

 

Or translated: that makes SWTOR at least 2.5 times the size of WoW vanilla.

And more planets are still to be revealed, earlier statements hinted at 20, 20+ planets.

 

The size estimate will be adjusted ofc as more detailed info will become available.

That doesn't tell us anything. It has been stated before that comparisons depend on how long it takes you to go through a zone and not the actual size. One planet can be 7-8 times the size of one WoW zone, but then again the characters in TOR can be 7-8 times the size of a WoW character and move 7-8 times faster.

Originally posted by romanator0

That doesn't tell us anything. It has been stated before that comparisons depend on how long it takes you to go through a zone and not the actual size. One planet can be 7-8 times the size of one WoW zone, but then again the characters in TOR can be 7-8 times the size of a WoW character and move 7-8 times faster.

Be honest. Bit of an extreme example, don't you think?

So far the run speed and average character size of MMORPG's have stayed within range from eachother, with only Rift showing a considerable lower normal run speed. Besides, how fast a player can go doesn't change a thing about the actual size of an area, only how that size is perceived.

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

Originally posted by romanator0

That doesn't tell us anything. It has been stated before that comparisons depend on how long it takes you to go through a zone and not the actual size. One planet can be 7-8 times the size of one WoW zone, but then again the characters in TOR can be 7-8 times the size of a WoW character and move 7-8 times faster.

Be honest. Bit of an extreme example, don't you think?

So far the run speed and average character size of MMORPG's have stayed within range from eachother, with only Rift showing a considerable lower normal run speed. Besides, how fast a player can go doesn't change a thing about the actual size of an area, only how that size is perceived.

Exactly. The worlds can be massive, but if your characters are too and you run fast then the size doesn't really matter much does it? Like you said, we have to wait for more details. Saying the worlds are big doesn't tell us anything.

I'm all for more accurate details and more evidence, but so far all the data gathered from the other MMORPG's have shown average human character sizes and normal speeds not to vary wildly from one MMORPG to the other, they stayed pretty close to eachother, and I expect that SW:TOR won't be the sudden exception in this.

But we'll see.

It is too hard to figure out map sizes,unless every game was using the same game engine and the same speeds and the same step sizes.

We should be able to easily judge how big each map is,as for the whole world that is a much more difficult task.Then we have games like DF where i could run for long periods and see literally nothing,so just having a large map does not a game make.

Without question Rift has small zones or maps we should call them,i would have a hard time thinking of a game with smaller maps.Vanguard has HUGE maps,some of the largest of any game.As already mentioned some in DF are also huge but completelty barren or empty of life,like an unfinished game.

Some games cities are larger than some games outdoor maps,i don't want to mention any names here,but that is not a good sign.

Forgot to mention we then have a game like Eve,there is no real cities,each landing spot is actually just a 2d screen,no actual size.As for the playable space is it quite large but has really poor fills,no need to make a sky map or trees or water,VERY easy to make a barren space,i would rate that more in line with DF's barren land mass.

Really with all the new devs using things like Speedtree,it is very simple to just create the largest size map/zone the game engine can handle be it 128kx128k and cover that entire mass with a couple textures,it really would only take about 2 minutes to create.So we shouldn't be worried about size,it really means nothing to quality game design,but yes i am in the same boat in that i do want a decently sized game to explore,i think we all do.

Originally posted by Wizardry

Really with all the new devs using things like Speedtree,it is very simple to just create the largest size map/zone the game engine can handle be it 128kx128k and cover that entire mass with a couple textures,it really would only take about 2 minutes to create.So we shouldn't be worried about size,it really means nothing to quality game design,but yes i am in the same boat in that i do want a decently sized game to explore,i think we all do.

It's true that size isn't everything, however it determines the playing field you're wandering around in.  A world like Vanguard gives a different experience and feel of immersion and exploration than a world like Rift or War.

As for SWTOR, the devs stated that it was all handcrafted, not generated.

Bioware has said that each planet will have around 7-8 WoW sized zones per planet, and right now there's 17 planets released (they also said the 4 origin worlds would be smaller). That puts TOR at around 102 WoW sized zones so far, which is twice the size of vanilla WoW.

I can't imagine the headache it would be to measure this for Allods.. Nevermind, I just gave it some thought and now I have the headache LOL

Anyway, Age of Conan anyone? It's probably at least above medium sized. I remember Khemi took forever to cross on a mount.

I wouldn't have any exact measurements though, but remember the run speed of AoC to be in line with LoTRo

Wow, that's an impressive zone map of AoC, mate, I didn't know one existed. Do you have this one in a larger (downloadable) format?

Originally posted by Evile

4 hours to cross EVE's universe? Even using jumpgates that is massivly wrong. EVE is MUCH larger. 

EVE wins without even a close matchup for size of universe. If you measured it in miles, even more so. 

 

At first I figured the OP didn't include EVE because it is simply not even close, or fair to compair other MMO size to it.

Most of this is just empty space.

World size is about space you actually have to fill with content.

Originally posted by Adamantine

Originally posted by Evile

4 hours to cross EVE's universe? Even using jumpgates that is massivly wrong. EVE is MUCH larger. 

EVE wins without even a close matchup for size of universe. If you measured it in miles, even more so. 

 

At first I figured the OP didn't include EVE because it is simply not even close, or fair to compair other MMO size to it.

Most of this is just empty space.

World size is about space you actually have to fill with content.

Agreed. Space games don't fit in this category as they are mostly just empty space (no pun intended).

if i recall correctly there.com also had one of the largest seamless worlds for an mmo...what i like about world mmos esepcially those that incorporate player housing is to see where populations migrate and converge odd in some places you would never expect.  there.com had a continent called tyr that had a 500 member trailer park on it which was a blast.  and exploring was amazing. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUGk6g-XZus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR6055f7AJ8

http://www.hjsv.com/games/there/maps/maps.html?all7=A&isl8=9&xxl14=0&font17=1&thumb18=0&menu19=0

UO had/has a good size world...

Speaking of size, do anyone remember the single player game Daggerfall: The elder scrolls part II?

It dwarfed any MMO, you could really run for days without getting from one side of the map to the other, not even close. It of course had map travelling (Which I didn't figured aout until I spent 4 hours running until I by pure luck found the closest city to the start dungeon).

It actually had a lot of features I would want in a MMO. For one thing did the shopkeepers actually walk home and go to sleep during the night, and nasty stuff could spawn both in the city and wilderness during night,

Random dungeons could get annoying after a while but I really spent a long time playing the game. :)

Here is the map, note that the cities were huge and that the whole game was uninstanced:

This game should really be made into a MMO. :)

As did shadowbane, as i remenber the world was suposted to be the size of north america, i can remember running for a long time to get anywere, and getting attacked at any time while on the run.

Here are some maps of GW2 that were put together by a GW2guru forumite. It's helpful despite being incomplete.

http://gwmaps.co.cc/

Here is the thread.

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/maps-tyria-interactive-image-heavy-t11575.html?t=11575

The symbols that show the capitol cities on the world map have also been put in.

I remember reading an article on TenTonHammer about how big the world in Vanguard was supposed to be, but since they've redone their article system, I was unable to find it.  I, however, did find this thread: http://forums.tentonhammer.com/showthread.php?t=269

Thestra is about 240 sq km, Qualia is just under 200 sq km, and Kojan is around 50 sq km.

Thestra = 15.49 km x 15.49 km (9.625 mi x 9.625 mi)

Qalia = 14.14 km x 14.14 km (8.786 mi x 8.786 mi)

Kojan = 7.07 km x 7.07 km (4.393 mi x 4.393 mi)

Plus the sea in between.

Thanks for the info, Cyrclez, but especially for that link.

I found this quote from Brad McQuaid about Vanguard:

"Each square of the player's onscreen map represents 2.5 miles of virtual terrain," McQuaid said as he flew an enormous dragon through a coniferous forest into what looked like a Shinto temple surrounding a sacred pool. Calling up the map, he pulled back to a view of the entire world, revealed a vast space consisting of thousands of 2.5-mile squares.

This is in line with other comments, like crossing each square taking 10 min, and halfway Thestra taking as long 45 min or so.

A square being 2.5 miles long would lead to the run speed in Vanguard being 15 miles/h, which is close to the run speed in the other MMORPG's.