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Perpetuum

Perpetuum Online 

General Discussion  » Confusing, poor perspective development

13 posts found
  nimdae

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/03/07
Posts: 1

 
OP  12/29/10 2:52:14 PM#1

I joined Perpetuum to check it out because it was highly rated. I see now that this rating is disputed. I think it could have actually been a good game, even in the class of Eve (as this seems the most comparable game in terms of play).

One thing I've noticed is perspective of scale seems way off and this seems to really cause problems with some people. These bots/mechs/etc are suppose to be quite massive, much larger than the human drivers. However, the environment and animation makes them look really really small. There's nothing in the game to make the mechs look big. As for animation, look at the legs of the bots (the 6 legged things). They make it look like the mech should be moving much faster than they really are (the legs move quite rapidly) and it gives the impression the mechs are small (small things move quicker, large things move slower).

As a result, the mechs feel really slow and the game doesn't feel as epic as it should. In reality, the mechs and bots are larger and they cover lots of ground quickly. I try to keep this in mind as I play, but it's difficult to convince your eyes they are fooling you.

I like the fact that skill progression is time based rather than grind based. This really keeps the progression between players more level. Granted, players that have been in the game longer are rewarded with more EP, but I don't see this as a problem. Unfortunately, EP is tied to the account rather than to the character. I wanted to play two different classes of characters, but progression on multiple characters slows by the number of characters (if you play 2, it's cut in half, etc). I've been trying to understand the purpose of this, but I can't figure it out. I can either play a single class with decent progression, or take the punishment for wanting more diversity.

The combat system is a bit of a joke. I have no control over it other than "target, auto attack, wait until it explodes". It works well for when I need a diversion while doing something else at the same time, but is not a good combat system if I want to just sit down and play the game.

Mining is another one of those things that lends well to be a diversion while multitasking. I can literally set up a mining task and then go cook dinner, eat, have a conversation, feed the dog, and then come back to still be mining. Maybe this changes later in the game as the environment gets more hostile, but this could probably have been done better.

In the end, I like the idea behind the game, but I don't think it was executed well. I don't have any complaints about the concepts behind the game, just with the game itself as it is currently implemented. I don't plan to resub, but I might check it out again at a later time when I'm looking for something different again.

  crazyiven

Novice Member

Joined: 3/26/06
Posts: 144

12/29/10 4:17:34 PM#2

 It is like you are moven a micro machine around, most of the plant life is taller than you. I to just started to play it, been palying eve for 6 years.  And read that it was much like eve, and do see a ton of it in there.  I'll give it the rest of the month and see where it goes. At this point its like learning eve back in the day, confusing.  I hope it does well, need more games like this out there.

  angus858

Novice Member

Joined: 11/17/04
Posts: 354

12/29/10 5:19:30 PM#3

I know what you mean about the apparent size of the robots. At first I figured the Arke was maybe 1 or 2 feet high.  That didn't bother me at all.  I don't need to be a gigantic robot to feel epic.  A small robot actually made more sense.  Then I noticed that the scanner gave distance measurements and clicking an adjacent tile produces a reading of 5 meters.  That means the Arke is actually the size of an SUV.  This seemed odd given the size of the plants and the speed with which the robot's legs move.

Then I made a realization which explains all the odd things about this world called Nia.  The plants are very tall because Nia is a small world with low gravity.  That would also explain how a big heavy robot could sprint around on spindly spider legs.  If Nia is a small world then the horizon would be much closer than on Earth which also explains the seemingly short weapon ranges.  Sure it is just a rationalization but it works for me :-)

The combat system is not a joke.  You just haven't really been in combat yet.  The little drones that run around the Alpha stations are just for target practice.  Go find a spawn of mechs and see how long you survive without using tactics and cover.

Yes, you can mine while afk.  I don't like that part either but it was copied from EVE like so many other systems.

  User Deleted
12/30/10 10:25:04 AM#4
Originally posted by angus858

The combat system is not a joke.  You just haven't really been in combat yet.  The little drones that run around the Alpha stations are just for target practice.  Go find a spawn of mechs and see how long you survive without using tactics and cover.

Erm you can kill the most difficult mob in perpetuum with your starting bot it just takes time. The only difference in mob AI is the firepower and locking range and whatever modules they have installed. If by tactics  you mean get longer range/faster locking then sure this tactic will last you till the end of the world:  pull a mob, kite it back so it loses its lock on you then move towards it (so it backs away to achieve its optimal range) shooting then quickly move backwards so it loses it lock again and repeat untill its dead. Yeah its hell of challenging for a 3 year old. If the mob is a ewar you just stand still and kill it. Every single mob goes forwards and the pathfinding is so bad you can get them stuck on pebbles which they can't get around because they only go forward. Yes I said it you can get mobs stuck on scenery then kill them at leiusure. L33t tactics...gg

  warpriest812

Novice Member

Joined: 10/29/09
Posts: 57

PLAY TO CRUSH!

12/31/10 1:51:13 PM#5
Originally posted by maxeborn
Originally posted by angus858

The combat system is not a joke.  You just haven't really been in combat yet.  The little drones that run around the Alpha stations are just for target practice.  Go find a spawn of mechs and see how long you survive without using tactics and cover.

Erm you can kill the most difficult mob in perpetuum with your starting bot...

 I am calling you out on this, prove it. I have no problem if you have legitimate complaints about the game, but if you are to badmouth it at least make it constructive with proof.

  crunchyblack

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/23/08
Posts: 1374

12/31/10 5:38:17 PM#6
Originally posted by warpriest812
Originally posted by maxeborn
Originally posted by angus858

The combat system is not a joke.  You just haven't really been in combat yet.  The little drones that run around the Alpha stations are just for target practice.  Go find a spawn of mechs and see how long you survive without using tactics and cover.

Erm you can kill the most difficult mob in perpetuum with your starting bot...

 I am calling you out on this, prove it. I have no problem if you have legitimate complaints about the game, but if you are to badmouth it at least make it constructive with proof.

 

im calling BS on this too.

 

go find some chameleon npc mobs

 

i would also like to point out how the game is PVP past the starter island. 

 

What are you king of beta island PVE in your arkhe, equipped at most with only 2 small weapons?

  emota

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/16/07
Posts: 341

12/31/10 6:03:28 PM#7
Originally posted by warpriest812
Originally posted by maxeborn
Originally posted by angus858

The combat system is not a joke.  You just haven't really been in combat yet.  The little drones that run around the Alpha stations are just for target practice.  Go find a spawn of mechs and see how long you survive without using tactics and cover.

Erm you can kill the most difficult mob in perpetuum with your starting bot...

 I am calling you out on this, prove it. I have no problem if you have legitimate complaints about the game, but if you are to badmouth it at least make it constructive with proof.

 You are so right, the op is talking BS, take out a 5 star mech on beta island with an arkhe, or a light bot..lol Totally impossible.

 

Also his biggest complaint is the size of the bots, honestly says it all.

  gobla

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/07
Posts: 1417

C'est la vie.

1/01/11 3:59:14 PM#8
Originally posted by nimdae

I joined Perpetuum to check it out because it was highly rated. I see now that this rating is disputed. I think it could have actually been a good game, even in the class of Eve (as this seems the most comparable game in terms of play).

One thing I've noticed is perspective of scale seems way off and this seems to really cause problems with some people. These bots/mechs/etc are suppose to be quite massive, much larger than the human drivers. However, the environment and animation makes them look really really small. There's nothing in the game to make the mechs look big. As for animation, look at the legs of the bots (the 6 legged things). They make it look like the mech should be moving much faster than they really are (the legs move quite rapidly) and it gives the impression the mechs are small (small things move quicker, large things move slower).

The robots aren't driven by humans. There's nothing at all stating that the robots are supposed to be massive. The smaller robots have a surface size of 3 meters. They're remotely controlled. The smaller robots really are means to be quite small.

As a result, the mechs feel really slow and the game doesn't feel as epic as it should. In reality, the mechs and bots are larger and they cover lots of ground quickly. I try to keep this in mind as I play, but it's difficult to convince your eyes they are fooling you.

In reality the bots are 3m and the mechs 8m. In reality the bots move at around 50kph ( as fast as a car on a normal road inside a city. ) and the mechs move even slower. This may not be what you expected but this game isn't mech warrior. This game isn't gundam or anything like it. It's not trying to be. The game's lore basically boils down to a zombie apocalypse on a planet of biomechanical robots ( a future earth is sending nanites through a wormhole that arrive on the planet Nia and infect the biomechenical creatures living there in order to take over the planet's resources so energy can be transferred back to earth as we humans have nearly used up all our own natural resources. )

I like the fact that skill progression is time based rather than grind based. This really keeps the progression between players more level. Granted, players that have been in the game longer are rewarded with more EP, but I don't see this as a problem. Unfortunately, EP is tied to the account rather than to the character. I wanted to play two different classes of characters, but progression on multiple characters slows by the number of characters (if you play 2, it's cut in half, etc). I've been trying to understand the purpose of this, but I can't figure it out. I can either play a single class with decent progression, or take the punishment for wanting more diversity.

The purpose is to force players to group up and band together. If you could mine at the best speeds with your mining char while your industry char produces bots without any waste and your research char provides top quality CEs ( think blueprints ) while your top trained combat char drives the produced heavy mechs to kill anyone you come across or your E-War char drives your fast E-War bots to just annoy people you wouldn't need to join a corp or do anything together. By limiting the EP you have to work together with other players. If you choose to be the top miner then you need to find skilled industrialists, researchers and soldiers to work with.

The combat system is a bit of a joke. I have no control over it other than "target, auto attack, wait until it explodes". It works well for when I need a diversion while doing something else at the same time, but is not a good combat system if I want to just sit down and play the game.

The combat system is meant to provide a more tactical and less reflex based approach to combat. It won't be to everyone their tastes but it's far from a joke. If you simply target, auto-attack and wait while doing the harder spawns or PvP then the only thing exploding will be you. There's a variety of E-War, weapon ranges, robot speeds, terrain to block line of sight and much more to keep combat interesting.

Mining is another one of those things that lends well to be a diversion while multitasking. I can literally set up a mining task and then go cook dinner, eat, have a conversation, feed the dog, and then come back to still be mining. Maybe this changes later in the game as the environment gets more hostile, but this could probably have been done better.

Mining is much as it is in EvE. From what I gather from miners the fun is in simply doing something relaxing together with corp mates. Talk on vent/TS, make a nice amount of NIC, feel like you're helping your friends out to blow your enemies up and browsing the market and your corp's supplies to figure out what ore you should mine.

In the end, I like the idea behind the game, but I don't think it was executed well. I don't have any complaints about the concepts behind the game, just with the game itself as it is currently implemented. I don't plan to resub, but I might check it out again at a later time when I'm looking for something different again.

It was executed as it was aimed to be executed. It's a more active game then EvE is but it's nowhere near the speed of a FPS. It doesn't have the quick rewards of a themepark MMO. Gameplay is relatively slow and meant to be slow. It's a thinking game. If you seek to be there at the start of what seems to be turning out as a deep and involved, but slow, game then Perp may be for you. If not then that's also fine.

Perp is definitely not a game for everyone, but it's in no way a poor game with a horrible execution. Confusing may be true though, just like EvE it's got quite the learning curve and requires thinking and maths to figure some things out. Right now it's a decent game for a probably small niche of people with the potential to turn into a great game. But as said, it's not for everyone. If you don't like it, no problem. Plenty of other games. But I'd first check if it isn't just a game that doesn't suit your tastes before calling it a badly developed game.

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  phantom195

Novice Member

Joined: 5/27/05
Posts: 37

1/01/11 9:30:50 PM#9

I totally agree with gobla.

It doesn't make sense to say that this game is pooly executed. That has not been my experience so far.

The most important thing to remember is that it is a niche mmo treading on eve online's path.

It is clearly not a game for everyone but i'm confident it can achieve a nice cruising speed.

  Joph

Novice Member

Joined: 1/19/11
Posts: 4

1/19/11 4:12:28 PM#10

I've been playing Perpetuum for a month now, I love it.  I really enjoy the industry side of the game.  I tried Eve, but found I was seven years too late!

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10878

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

1/19/11 4:22:47 PM#11

I'm calling troll on the whole combat thing. You did not and cannot take an Arkhe out and kill most of the robots running around, much less the 'toughest in the game'. If that were true, most corporations would be arming themselves with Arkhes instead of millions of whatever the currency is called worth of heavy mechs.

The perspective is a little wonky. The plants and the alien buildings are really big...but it's an alien planet. What do you expect?

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Wraithone

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3573

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

1/24/11 1:48:10 PM#12
Originally posted by maxeborn
Originally posted by angus858

The combat system is not a joke.  You just haven't really been in combat yet.  The little drones that run around the Alpha stations are just for target practice.  Go find a spawn of mechs and see how long you survive without using tactics and cover.

Erm you can kill the most difficult mob in perpetuum with your starting bot it just takes time. The only difference in mob AI is the firepower and locking range and whatever modules they have installed. If by tactics  you mean get longer range/faster locking then sure this tactic will last you till the end of the world:  pull a mob, kite it back so it loses its lock on you then move towards it (so it backs away to achieve its optimal range) shooting then quickly move backwards so it loses it lock again and repeat untill its dead. Yeah its hell of challenging for a 3 year old. If the mob is a ewar you just stand still and kill it. Every single mob goes forwards and the pathfinding is so bad you can get them stuck on pebbles which they can't get around because they only go forward. Yes I said it you can get mobs stuck on scenery then kill them at leiusure. L33t tactics...gg

Well, the problem with the above about ewars is thats a good way to get killed.  Once they get into range, they have demobs(make you move slower. If you have a light frame to go faster, you go a lot slower...). They also have energy drain(drops your acc energy, without which your weapons and such do not function), and they have jammers, which break your weapon lock(which means you can't attack until its re established).  If theres more than one ewar bot, things get ugly fast.  Not to mention they are many times mixed with other bots that have much heavier weapons.

  Nimuel

Novice Member

Joined: 4/27/06
Posts: 163

-- "And what would you do with a brain if you had one?" //Wizard of Oz

1/25/11 2:10:27 AM#13
Originally posted by Wraithone
Originally posted by maxeborn
Originally posted by angus858

The combat system is not a joke.  You just haven't really been in combat yet.  The little drones that run around the Alpha stations are just for target practice.  Go find a spawn of mechs and see how long you survive without using tactics and cover.

Erm you can kill the most difficult mob in perpetuum with your starting bot it just takes time. The only difference in mob AI is the firepower and locking range and whatever modules they have installed. If by tactics  you mean get longer range/faster locking then sure this tactic will last you till the end of the world:  pull a mob, kite it back so it loses its lock on you then move towards it (so it backs away to achieve its optimal range) shooting then quickly move backwards so it loses it lock again and repeat untill its dead. Yeah its hell of challenging for a 3 year old. If the mob is a ewar you just stand still and kill it. Every single mob goes forwards and the pathfinding is so bad you can get them stuck on pebbles which they can't get around because they only go forward. Yes I said it you can get mobs stuck on scenery then kill them at leiusure. L33t tactics...gg

Well, the problem with the above about ewars is thats a good way to get killed.  Once they get into range, they have demobs(make you move slower. If you have a light frame to go faster, you go a lot slower...). They also have energy drain(drops your acc energy, without which your weapons and such do not function), and they have jammers, which break your weapon lock(which means you can't attack until its re established).  If theres more than one ewar bot, things get ugly fast.  Not to mention they are many times mixed with other bots that have much heavier weapons.

Not to mention the heavy mech overseers, they'll take a hard look at an arkhe from 600-800m out and simply melt it with its gaze.

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"And what would you do with a brain if you had one?" - Wizard of Oz