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51 posts found
  Terranah

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/03/04
Posts: 3609

12/31/10 12:38:40 AM#21
Originally posted by Daffid011
Originally posted by smugglapro

Crafters asked for escorts?  Yeah, like, in the first 6 to 9 months.  After that, Crafters fell into the behavior of "I can do it myself, I don't need anyone else" and cleaned up like Corps that are "too big to fail".  They worked alts and that killed that social branch. 

The reason SWG was as social as it was wasn't because it was designed to be this wonderful social landscape, but becaue there wasn't ANYTHING ELSE TO DO BUT SOCIALIZE.   I'm a pre-launch vet.  Stayed until the face-spitting and fraud and as someone that networked enough to have had the first player owned cantina on my server with no money down I can tell you, without any reservation, that the great social game you're remembering is a memory seen through rose colored glasses.  Within less than a year, that title turned into a relatively banal social experiment gone wrong.

It wasn't by design that it was as you remember.  It was a lack of options.  And that was only sustained long enough for people to begin to resort to the self-serving natures you hear about in EvE and the like. 

I think the decline of the social aspect of the game has more to do with the game changes than anything you mention. 

The holocron craze was the start and lacking any real direction for content, that is what players were given to focus on.  Think about what it did to the game.  It took players out of the profession they were interested in playing and put them on some massive grind fest to chase some time locked profession by playing professions they were not interested in.  Instead of players playing what they wanted, they were given "content" that made them constantly level up a profession, delete it and repeat that process for almost all the professions.  I recall how horrid the community got around that time, because people stopped caring about the game and just cared about being a jedi with a glow stick.  Also a result of that lack of content, which was a result of the game releasing at least a year premature. 

Things only got worse from that point with each design shift the developers slapped on the game.  Add to that the other problems you mention and the result was almost unavoidable due to lack of decent management of the games focus.

 So true....so true. The hologrind had a terrible impact on our guild and city.  Not to mention me personally.  I went from creature hunter gunfighter which was my choice to getting a holocron that told me to master droid engineer.  I still remember the hours of clicking through meaningless recipes to try to master that accursed profession.

 

At some point, I made some cool droids and quit the profession grind.  I decided playing the game the way I wanted and hanging with my friends was more important than sitting in some back room for hours on end doing somethting I didn't want to do.  Ofcourse, others of my guild were not so enlightened.  The hologrind fractured our little community.

 

As far as I'm concerned, the hologrind was the beginging of Stupid.

  Naowut

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 657

12/31/10 12:41:50 AM#22

SWG was my favourite game but I dont give a fck about starwars so I was group 2 right from the start.

I just liked the elements that made SWG, SWG.

  IAmMMO

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/17/08
Posts: 1310

12/31/10 12:47:50 AM#23

For those of us who started MMO back in the late 1990's or Muds before that have to come to realize that MMO's are now being made for a New Generation of gamers entering their Teens. The sandbox MMO as we once enjoyed is completely dead. MMO developer follow the money, and the money is now in linear MMO's aimed at a new generation starting their Teens. The Genre is dead for us now, time to move on back to the few top single player games that able to immerse and challenge us first and second generation of Pc gamers.

  Ocirusskd

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/26/09
Posts: 215

Youth is in the mind!

12/31/10 1:05:16 AM#24
Originally posted by IAmMMO

For those of us who started MMO back in the late 1990's or Muds before that have to come to realize that MMO's are now being made for a New Generation of gamers entering their Teens. The sandbox MMO as we once enjoyed is completely dead. MMO developer follow the money, and the money is now in linear MMO's aimed at a new generation starting their Teens. The Genre is dead for us now, time to move on back to the few top single player games that able to immerse and challenge us first and second generation of Pc gamers.

I completely agree, the gaming industry has changed to appeal to a newer generation of gamers and to not just make a successful game, but to make the biggest profit margin possible by appealing to a broad audience.
 
The market has obviously changed, but even gamers like myself (who still treasure my old memories of SWG) have changed. I used to play a game to play a game and didn’t constantly compare it to my ideal of perfection or the list of games that had elements that I liked. I’ve became spoiled from the constant new game parade and my tolerance has shrunk, while my expectations have grown. There are many things about SWG and EQ1 that would ruin my experience with a game today, but I easily shrugged it off back in the day.
  lostscout5

Novice Member

Joined: 9/10/08
Posts: 58

 
OP  1/01/11 12:39:23 PM#25
Originally posted by smugglapro
Originally posted by lostscout5
Originally posted by TookyG
Originally posted by lostscout5
Originally posted by Terranah

I liked the sci fi aspect as well.  For some reason precu SWG was so easy to rp in.  I rp'd 3 characters with ease.  It never felt forced or phony.  For some reason in other games I have a hard time roleplaying, like there is a mental block or something.  I don't know what it is...

 

But in SWG I had a little back story and my characters each had their own seperate little personalities and even different friends.  Sometimes I would even take a step back and marvel at the fact that I could be 3 different people so convincingly and still be me.

 

I'd love to find whatever SWG had in another game and start rping again, where it didn't feel forced.  Maybe I just lost my imagination though...

You know, that's a good point. It was easy to RP in. I'm no "carebear", I always like to PVP. But it really was easy to RP in SWG. You may have hit on a good topic for a thead in another forum. What makes some games easyer to RP than others ?

The answer:  Reasons to socialize.  RPing comes more naturally when you're thrust into positions of having to socialize.  That was SWGs greatest strength; you had to work with others.

That's part of it. I Think it was also that there were so many things that were social. Almost every MMO tries to have a social aspect but SWG had them all over the place. For crafters all the best resources were on the most dangerous planets. This lead crafters to ask for escorts. Animal resources needed scout and ranger players to harvest them for the crafters. A POB ship needed a pilot and at least 2 gunners. And on and on. New MMO's try to force players to group and often leave it at that. I soloed LOTRO until level 18 before a really needed to group, and before that I hardly ever talked to anyone at all. 

Crafters asked for escorts?  Yeah, like, in the first 6 to 9 months.  After that, Crafters fell into the behavior of "I can do it myself, I don't need anyone else" and cleaned up like Corps that are "too big to fail".  They worked alts and that killed that social branch. 

The reason SWG was as social as it was wasn't because it was designed to be this wonderful social landscape, but becaue there wasn't ANYTHING ELSE TO DO BUT SOCIALIZE.   I'm a pre-launch vet.  Stayed until the face-spitting and fraud and as someone that networked enough to have had the first player owned cantina on my server with no money down I can tell you, without any reservation, that the great social game you're remembering is a memory seen through rose colored glasses.  Within less than a year, that title turned into a relatively banal social experiment gone wrong.

It wasn't by design that it was as you remember.  It was a lack of options.  And that was only sustained long enough for people to begin to resort to the self-serving natures you hear about in EvE and the like. 

Wow, sure glad I was on Lowca and not Starsider. It sounds like you were put through hell ! Besides I never said it was a GREAT social game, just that it had a lot of different social aspects that you don't see in newer games. A started playing 3 months after launch and stayed for 51/2 years. I was in the same guild almost the whole time and the DRAMA was unreal at times . Little secret, one of the reasons I stayed in that guild was because I thought the social chaos was really funny ! 

  lostscout5

Novice Member

Joined: 9/10/08
Posts: 58

 
OP  1/01/11 12:43:54 PM#26
Originally posted by Daffid011
Originally posted by smugglapro

Crafters asked for escorts?  Yeah, like, in the first 6 to 9 months.  After that, Crafters fell into the behavior of "I can do it myself, I don't need anyone else" and cleaned up like Corps that are "too big to fail".  They worked alts and that killed that social branch. 

The reason SWG was as social as it was wasn't because it was designed to be this wonderful social landscape, but becaue there wasn't ANYTHING ELSE TO DO BUT SOCIALIZE.   I'm a pre-launch vet.  Stayed until the face-spitting and fraud and as someone that networked enough to have had the first player owned cantina on my server with no money down I can tell you, without any reservation, that the great social game you're remembering is a memory seen through rose colored glasses.  Within less than a year, that title turned into a relatively banal social experiment gone wrong.

It wasn't by design that it was as you remember.  It was a lack of options.  And that was only sustained long enough for people to begin to resort to the self-serving natures you hear about in EvE and the like. 

I think the decline of the social aspect of the game has more to do with the game changes than anything you mention. 

The holocron craze was the start and lacking any real direction for content, that is what players were given to focus on.  Think about what it did to the game.  It took players out of the profession they were interested in playing and put them on some massive grind fest to chase some time locked profession by playing professions they were not interested in.  Instead of players playing what they wanted, they were given "content" that made them constantly level up a profession, delete it and repeat that process for almost all the professions.  I recall how horrid the community got around that time, because people stopped caring about the game and just cared about being a jedi with a glow stick.  Also a result of that lack of content, which was a result of the game releasing at least a year premature. 

Things only got worse from that point with each design shift the developers slapped on the game.  Add to that the other problems you mention and the result was almost unavoidable due to lack of decent management of the games focus.

I think the whole holocron mess was part of the original design. It was just a really bad idea.

  lostscout5

Novice Member

Joined: 9/10/08
Posts: 58

 
OP  1/01/11 12:50:17 PM#27
Originally posted by IAmMMO

For those of us who started MMO back in the late 1990's or Muds before that have to come to realize that MMO's are now being made for a New Generation of gamers entering their Teens. The sandbox MMO as we once enjoyed is completely dead. MMO developer follow the money, and the money is now in linear MMO's aimed at a new generation starting their Teens. The Genre is dead for us now, time to move on back to the few top single player games that able to immerse and challenge us first and second generation of Pc gamers.

That may be true, but if someone DID come out with a modern, well made sandbox/skill based game  would you be interested?

  randomt

Novice Member

Joined: 3/27/05
Posts: 1110

1/01/11 12:58:55 PM#28

Earthrise has perhaps some potential here?

As for the NGE and expansions that followed, sure it was crap compared to what was before, but it was still much better than most of what gets released these days.. Admit it :D

----
my sig: firefox users, install flashblock addon to get rid of annoying flash advertisements. Stupid flash.

  majorsmerk

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/08/04
Posts: 8

1/01/11 1:03:04 PM#29

NGE at release was too buggy to play, and even today there isn't enough content to compare with most new releases. So no, we won't admit it.

  erictlewis

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/08/08
Posts: 3047

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results.

1/01/11 1:04:11 PM#30
Originally posted by lostscout5
Originally posted by Daffid011
Originally posted by smugglapro

Crafters asked for escorts?  Yeah, like, in the first 6 to 9 months.  After that, Crafters fell into the behavior of "I can do it myself, I don't need anyone else" and cleaned up like Corps that are "too big to fail".  They worked alts and that killed that social branch. 

The reason SWG was as social as it was wasn't because it was designed to be this wonderful social landscape, but becaue there wasn't ANYTHING ELSE TO DO BUT SOCIALIZE.   I'm a pre-launch vet.  Stayed until the face-spitting and fraud and as someone that networked enough to have had the first player owned cantina on my server with no money down I can tell you, without any reservation, that the great social game you're remembering is a memory seen through rose colored glasses.  Within less than a year, that title turned into a relatively banal social experiment gone wrong.

It wasn't by design that it was as you remember.  It was a lack of options.  And that was only sustained long enough for people to begin to resort to the self-serving natures you hear about in EvE and the like. 

I think the decline of the social aspect of the game has more to do with the game changes than anything you mention. 

The holocron craze was the start and lacking any real direction for content, that is what players were given to focus on.  Think about what it did to the game.  It took players out of the profession they were interested in playing and put them on some massive grind fest to chase some time locked profession by playing professions they were not interested in.  Instead of players playing what they wanted, they were given "content" that made them constantly level up a profession, delete it and repeat that process for almost all the professions.  I recall how horrid the community got around that time, because people stopped caring about the game and just cared about being a jedi with a glow stick.  Also a result of that lack of content, which was a result of the game releasing at least a year premature. 

Things only got worse from that point with each design shift the developers slapped on the game.  Add to that the other problems you mention and the result was almost unavoidable due to lack of decent management of the games focus.

I think the whole holocron mess was part of the original design. It was just a really bad idea.

 Well the original jedi villiage quests that replaced the hologrind were bad as well.  I can remember having to get gm's involed itme after time when npc's would get stuck in the wall, or would not talk to you on turn in.   I guess I got lucky the holocron i got was swordmaster i know other folks who got crafting holicrons..  

  randomt

Novice Member

Joined: 3/27/05
Posts: 1110

1/01/11 1:12:57 PM#31


Originally posted by majorsmerk
NGE at release was too buggy to play, and even today there isn't enough content to compare with most new releases. So no, we won't admit it.

Wah? I take it you haven't really played it then.. There was massive amounts of content in it when I played, and the world was still relatively sandboxy, even if the 'classes' weren't anymore. If today's mmo's had AT LEAST the same amount of scope that SWG had, even after SoE NGE'd it, that would be slick.

Well, after any buggyness was fixed anyway. There were no obvious bugs at the time I played anyway, the population was pretty good, even some player cities still were active at that time. Cantina's were booming, people goin for entertainer buffs and stuff..

Would I have preferred the original SWG? Probably. Doesn't mean I can't look at what they did to it objectively and appreciate it for what it is, instead of the usual "no! it's not the game i love, therefore it's total crap!" we get on these forums heh. Humans are humans, what can ya do?

Anyway, what is the SWG:Vet thought on Earthrise? It's sci-fi and supposedly sandboxy

----
my sig: firefox users, install flashblock addon to get rid of annoying flash advertisements. Stupid flash.

  lostscout5

Novice Member

Joined: 9/10/08
Posts: 58

 
OP  1/02/11 8:02:25 AM#32

I think the whole holocron mess was part of the original design. It was just a really bad idea.

 Well the original jedi villiage quests that replaced the hologrind were bad as well.  I can remember having to get gm's involed itme after time when npc's would get stuck in the wall, or would not talk to you on turn in.   I guess I got lucky the holocron i got was swordmaster i know other folks who got crafting holicrons..  

Yeah, I heard some of the stories, out of there,never been myself. I didn't unlock jedi until 3 days before the NGE was announced . Talk about bad timing !

  lostscout5

Novice Member

Joined: 9/10/08
Posts: 58

 
OP  1/02/11 8:32:16 AM#33
Originally posted by randomt

 


Originally posted by majorsmerk
NGE at release was too buggy to play, and even today there isn't enough content to compare with most new releases. So no, we won't admit it.


 

Wah? I take it you haven't really played it then.. There was massive amounts of content in it when I played, and the world was still relatively sandboxy, even if the 'classes' weren't anymore. If today's mmo's had AT LEAST the same amount of scope that SWG had, even after SoE NGE'd it, that would be slick.

Well, after any buggyness was fixed anyway. There were no obvious bugs at the time I played anyway, the population was pretty good, even some player cities still were active at that time. Cantina's were booming, people goin for entertainer buffs and stuff..

Would I have preferred the original SWG? Probably. Doesn't mean I can't look at what they did to it objectively and appreciate it for what it is, instead of the usual "no! it's not the game i love, therefore it's total crap!" we get on these forums heh. Humans are humans, what can ya do?

Anyway, what is the SWG:Vet thought on Earthrise? It's sci-fi and supposedly sandboxy

 

 The beta video's don't look very impressive . But I'm holding judgement until the NDA is lifted.

  Daffid011

Old School

Joined: 1/03/04
Posts: 7652

1/02/11 9:22:40 AM#34
Originally posted by lostscout5

I think the whole holocron mess was part of the original design. It was just a really bad idea.

One of the developers admitted that they did not create the Jedi system until a few weeks (or months, I don't recall) after the game released.  They talked about how quickly it was put together and thrown into the game.

The entire jedi system was a knee jerk bandaid fix to a problem and very symbolic of how the game was managed.  Holocrons were actually created a few months after the original jedi system was put in game.  It was done to give players something to do.  It was really a move that sold out the future of the game for a short term solution.

 

  TraylorTrash

Novice Member

Joined: 7/21/10
Posts: 33

1/02/11 9:30:46 AM#35

Lol. People are still crying over SWG????

  Ebonheart

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/20/05
Posts: 138

1/02/11 9:31:50 AM#36

Dune Online

The spice must flow...

 

Throw in a bunch of planets (similar to SWG) + the planet Dune.

Make it a sandbox but with different houses as Factions (similar to Rebels vs. Imperial).

Create a ton of different classes and let the players combine classes.

Maybe add a bit of space combat or travel.

Pre-cu Economy, Housing, Combat, Etc.

 

Hey, maybe they could even add voice activated weapons (mic required) for MUAAAAAAAAAAAA....... BOOM!

As long as I could sport an overcoat and stuff a pug into my jacket as I charge into battle with a balding haircut, i'd be a lifer.

  Recon48

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/03/06
Posts: 219

1/02/11 6:09:53 PM#37

The holocrons were definitely the beginning of the mess but in a way I think they helped lead me to try professions that I might have otherwise avoided playing. I was surely a minority, but was in no real hurry to unlock a jedi - although I was participating in the hologrind somewhat.  I opened 4 and leveled up the professions as directed, but I didn't instantly flush that time down the toilet and move onto the next one. I played each of the professions for at least a month and found many of them to be a lot of fun. This led to a 2nd and eventually 3rd account because I had so much regret in surrendering a few of the professions. Then when the old man and the village happened, it was obvious that with the Force Sensitive skills I was going to have to follow the herd or fall behind if I wanted to be able to continue playing the GCW portion of the game. Doing away with the Skill Point based game when CU hit and replacing it with level based progression was when I stopped enjoying the game.

  User Deleted
1/04/11 7:46:14 PM#38

They could reskin it to spaceballs,if it was PreCU i would play it.    "May the schwartz be with you"

  lostscout5

Novice Member

Joined: 9/10/08
Posts: 58

 
OP  1/04/11 10:31:45 PM#39

Hmmm, spaceballs, interesting.

  shirlnt

Novice Member

Joined: 4/29/06
Posts: 350

1/10/11 11:12:23 PM#40

My thoughts on a few things that have been brought up....

 

Holocrons were either already in place or came out around the same time I started SWG so I can not speak as to what effect they had on the game.  Part of what killed the social aspect of the game was connected to the same thing that created the social aspect of the game -- in SWG players actually needed other players (for the materials crafted, for the buffs, to kill things with higher xp value) plus there was the time to kill while waiting [for the next shuttle, in the buff line] then people discovered ways to solo the game (ahhh the solo grouping) between a mix of strong armor, strong buffs, and the perfect skill tree setup add to that the introduction of personal spacecraft which took away a lot of waiting around and there went a large part of the social aspect of the game.

 

Why was rping so easy in SWB (in the pre-cu format at least)?  I contribute to two factors.  First, Star Wars is a familiar IP.  Most players were familiar with the storyline and typical characters so it was easy to build on to that knowledge.  Second, there were always people around...cantinas, shuttles, spaceports, player cities, guilds that actually served a purpose, etc.  Since it wasn't a game that moved people from one leveled section to another and players didn't risk outleveling each other, rp didn't have to be a highly planned event.

 

Sandbox games don't exist or aren't successful?  There exist a little known "free to play" MMO out there thats about as sandbox as a game could get, pretty much ALL the content is player created.

 

Would I play a game designed like SWG minus the star wars skin?  I would love to find one.  I would at least try it out.  Preferably there would be some improvements over the way SWG was set up (those "rose colored glasses" I must be wearing to have such fond memories of SWG aren't quite as rosy as people might assume, I know there were issues with the game, I just didn't like the way SOE went about "fixing" them AND I also know that as flawed and buggy as SWG was, there's not another game on the market like it).  The difficult part will be finding an IP of any sort that has the immersion level that Star Wars has.....familiar locations, animals, species, clothing, armor, music, weapons, roles, factions.  Honestly, to work it would probably need to be an original IP but will people connect as well with an original IP.

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