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City of Heroes

City of Heroes 

Paragon City Hall (General)  » CoX, defense stacking, archetype population post going rogue

12 posts found
  Abye

Novice Member

Joined: 8/01/07
Posts: 53

 
OP  12/10/10 6:42:31 AM#1

Wondering how the game is developing, I play CoX every now and then, get a new char to level 50 then i stop playing CoX for a year. My level 50 characters include a brute, a MM, a corruptor, a dom and a controller.

I some question to the regular CoX-players about where the game is going.

First is, what archetypes and on what side do the players play since GR. Redside had fewer players, so did the majority move to blue besides the people hunting redside badges ? Have certain archetypes almost obsoleted others ?

Second is a little more specific. My impression is that at the high-end, survivability is focused on defense attained from set-bonuses. This goes so far that melee chars with resist based powersets stack defense which seems to make resist-based powersets redundant if you don't count in their own perks. It seems a little excessive that a decked out corruptor outtanks a brute because he took electric armor. I know this is impossible to adjust short-term because it would alienate the current pretty loyal playerbase. Do you think the devs would dare adjusting this aspect at all ?

  Daitengu

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/03/08
Posts: 445

12/10/10 6:51:18 AM#2

It's mostly a PvE game, was developed as a PvE game, with PvP an after thought.  Does it really need balance? Some combinations have always been harder or easier compared to others.

 

I had the most fun with CoH/CoV when I didn't care what the FotM was, but instead went with a character concept.

  Amarsir

Novice Member

Joined: 4/26/06
Posts: 703

12/10/10 12:51:45 PM#3

Going Rogue doesn't just let you switch, it lets you straddle the line. Between Hero and Villain are "Vigilantes" and "Rogues", who can visit red or blue zones at will. And that's where most people have moved. That means there are more teaming options for redside characters than ever before. You just have to connect with them because they probably won't be standing around Sharkhead waiting for an invite. (It might just be my personal preference showing, but I think TFs/SFs are more popular than before, and will especially be so with the new Incarnate rewards.)

As for which archetypes people want, I'd say the vastly prevailing opinion is "play whatever you want, just play it well." On the broad scale nothing is so unbalanced that it's unwelcome. Even Elec armor isn't so bad since they buffed Energize with heal & regen. And if your brute can't tank for the whole team without buffs just say so. You'll be a damage and secondary aggro resource. I doubt anyone would have a problem with that.

As for defense vs resistance, I think you're oversimplifying it. Defense is focused on over resistance because:
A) it's easier to get
B) the soft cap is attainable for anyone. (45%)
Resistance is damn near impossible to get from Invention bonuses, and only Tanks/Brutes can get a cap of 90%. That's why people focus on defense. However, as for protecting you resistance helps a lot and is less likely to get washed away on you. I'll explain.

I almost feel like Defense sets are the ones getting shorted because the availability of defense bonuses means Resist sets can have both. But that's not quite true either because what Ice and Super Reflexes and Shields have that most can't get is Debuff Resistance. And that's pretty important. If you've ever waded into a pack of Cimerorans in the ITF you've probably seen what they do to defense. And when that Corruptor's defense goes from +45% to -50%, he'll be well aware of how not a brute he is. 60% resistance may not be the greatest mitigation in a vacuum, but it doesn't go away just because the enemy AV is feeling accurate.

Now I personally think the invention bonuses were assigned pretty sloppily and it would be nice if the resistance numbers they sprinkled around were 3x or 4x higher. But that aside I think the ATs and even sets are pretty balanced and certainly no one gets treaded like a second-class citizen.

Hope that helps. If you can find a copy of Going Rogue at a decent price I'd advise picking it up and coming back for a bit. (Use a "returning player code" first for 15 extra days, though *cough*.) Your 50s might particularly enjoy the Incarnate Alpha slot they just released last week.

Currently playing:
DC Universe
Planetside 2
Magic Online
Simunomics, the Massive Multiplayer Economic Simulation Game. Play for free.

  drake_hound

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/08/10
Posts: 793

1/04/11 8:19:39 AM#4

Its a combination of both thats desirable , problem with defense is that it doesn´t matter if its +3 thats hitting you or a +0 , the defense value is the same for both , after +3 i am not so sure anymore ...too long out of the rotation even if it has been just 3 months .

 

Anyway why DEFENSE is favored since the softcap is easy to reach and very noticable , while resistance simply takes nowadays too much damage , the resistance get less as you fight higher level mobs , since they do more damage.

Defense needs defense debuffs to counter act higher levels mobs , or atleast hits the soft cap . for it to be effective .

Dont remember the numbers anymore , but simply put after that minions doesn´t accuracy doesn´t affect defense anymore.

It has became the best next thing , just at lower levels defense is not that noticable , but at higher levels .

The DEFENSE is very noticable , defense coupled with resistance is very very valid indeed .

 

But choosing between defense soft cap or resitance , defense softcap is easier to reach then a meaning full resistance .

 

Hope that helps you out , if not ask on COX forums , enough people willing to help you trough with numbers and other features .

  TeknoBug

Novice Member

Joined: 10/13/07
Posts: 2164

1/19/11 10:08:52 AM#5

Welcome to 3 years ago, it's always been popular to go with defense sets and softcap it (~45%). I have a martial arts/invuln scrapper and invuln is unbelievable when configured right (with set bonuses) it's strong in both resist and defense and psi resist (invuln has 0 psi resist). I personally prefer resist based sets because there's a handful of -def debuffs and -res are extremely rare.


PVP is busted these days and has been since issue 11, I don't go to pvp zones anymore and I don't think many do, your sets are useless there and your movement is reduced on each attack you make, why is this fun?

  jpnole

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/13/10
Posts: 1647

1/20/11 1:51:57 PM#6
While GR showed they could update the look of the game, I feel that eventually Paragon will have to start work on COH 2, which they have already secured the rights to. Being a former COH player and current DCUO player, there are just too many areas that COH has fallen behind in. DCUO has better graphics, more realistic and fluid combat, larger non instanced world, better quest immersion. I could go on. I think COH players concerned with the future of their game owe it to themselves to give DCUO a shot. Honestly I could never go back as DCUO represents the next generation of super hero mmo.
  gandales

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/12/06
Posts: 463

1/21/11 2:16:02 PM#7
Originally posted by jpnole
While GR showed they could update the look of the game, I feel that eventually Paragon will have to start work on COH 2, which they have already secured the rights to. Being a former COH player and current DCUO player, there are just too many areas that COH has fallen behind in. DCUO has better graphics, more realistic and fluid combat, larger non instanced world, better quest immersion. I could go on. I think COH players concerned with the future of their game owe it to themselves to give DCUO a shot. Honestly I could never go back as DCUO represents the next generation of super hero mmo.

While it can't be denied the age of its engine, CoX still has better character customization than DCUO and a more fluid team dynamics. Most of the quest immersion in DCUO has to do with the IP, but through CoX I came to know its lore, I even read 2 CoH novels. As mmorpg DCUO is more actiony but it is rather shallow compared to CoX

  User Deleted
1/23/11 7:38:30 PM#8

Considering how well MMO sequels have done in the past, I sure hope they aren't working on a sequel.  Keep the original running, as opposed to cannibalizng the base.

  Abye

Novice Member

Joined: 8/01/07
Posts: 53

 
OP  1/24/11 5:06:41 PM#9

Talking about DCUO, how was the population hit on CoX ? i have the tickling urge to play it again but don't want to see empty wastelands.

  jpnole

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/13/10
Posts: 1647

1/24/11 5:22:35 PM#10
Originally posted by Abye

Talking about DCUO, how was the population hit on CoX ? i have the tickling urge to play it again but don't want to see empty wastelands.

 Once you do DCUO there's no going back. It's on a whole different level. CoX has the advantage on chat/UI but this should be ironed out with the next patch or two.

  jpnole

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/13/10
Posts: 1647

1/24/11 5:25:23 PM#11
Originally posted by BattleM99

Considering how well MMO sequels have done in the past, I sure hope they aren't working on a sequel.  Keep the original running, as opposed to cannibalizng the base.

 Big mistake to keep pouring development into the original. Once you see what a next gen super hero mmo is like (DCUO) you will be amazed. They have to get a new engine fired up and start work now or CoH will just fall further behind. Again - this is coming from a former CoH player who loved playing the game!

  Shadus

Novice Member

Joined: 6/03/04
Posts: 668

Dont run... you will just die tired!

1/24/11 5:28:27 PM#12

I disagree completely, dcuo isn't half as interesting as cox especially post going rogue although I think they've better integrated a lot of the elements into the story.

If you expect sony to fix something in the long run... heh. You'll soon learn that doesn't occur with sony, they're masters of mismanagement and long term incompetence.

Shadus