Trending Games | World of Warcraft | EVE Online | ArcheAge | Guild Wars 2

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,814,960 Users Online:0
Games:731  Posts:6,213,867
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Crowd Control? A thing of the past?

3 Pages « 1 2 3 Search
45 posts found
  Ncrediblebulk

Novice Member

Joined: 1/09/08
Posts: 137

"Bulk Smash, Baby! Bulk Smash!"

11/30/10 11:52:58 AM#41
Originally posted by swing848

 



Originally posted by brostyn


Originally posted by ajrock622

I never played EQ but if you take CC out then like I stated before all you basically have is a player spamming dmg/taunting/healing skills until a mob is dead. There's no real strategy used in that. Yes enounters may require movent and such but it still boils down to "press 1 if x, press 2 if y, press 3 if z, repeat."


Yet, you are insinuating that there is strategy by pressing a spell gem that puts mobs to sleep. I fail to see how making a mob totally harmless by pressing your mez key is more strategic than pressing taunt hotkeys. I think it actually makes it easier, because the mob isn't even causing damage. So, basically you are healing less with mez than without. Less resources are being used, and the chance of dying is significantly reduced.  There is absolutely no player strategy involved when all I have to do is hit the mez key. Mez is far more powerful than taunt, as a mez basically takes that creature out of the fight, where as taunt just makes them attack a particular person. Yea, not seeing how putting a mob to sleep is easier than having to control that mobs aggro.

My first post dissappeared.

Both of you are wrong on this one.

This example regards mobs. PvP requires different strategy because individual players may break mez soon and or call for help [depending upon the game]. DAOC is famous for this. Group stranded and in need of help? Call the rest of the battlegroup to help you. Just an example.

OK, back to mobs.

In games that use CC, tanks are required to keep agro [and deal damage] while the healer keeps the tank alive, and at the same time the caster burns the mob to the ground.

In addition, if a lot of high level mobs decide to join the fight the tank will probably not be able to get agro on all of the mobs, because after too much healing the mobs go after the healer[s] and kill them. Healers dead.

Next in line are the primary damage dealers, cloth wearers that do lots of damage but can't take much. Now the squishies are dead. This leaves the tank. With so many mobs hitting him he will probably die, and if not, the rest of the group is already dead. The group will need someone to res them. If the tank can res, fine. They can do the same thing again and end up dead again.

So, tanks have a purpose, protect the squishies and healers, cloth wearing damage dealers and cloth wearing CC classes survive ... because of the CC character.

Now, if you are whining about a solo CC character going against a single mob, you must remember that most CC classes are very good at CC and not the best at killing. So, the guy casts on the mob [or uses a pet as well]. In that case if the mob goes after the guy he or she will have to ... kite ...

Kite, yes everyone loves to do that, just run for your life and hope the mob does not catch up with you. And, the mob does not because you use CC to stop the mob, get more distance again and finish killing the mob.

How does this CC type class differ from a pure DPS caster? Depending upon the game, the DPS class may have to kite until he is high enough in some skill to burn a single mob to the ground.

How does this CC type differ from a tank? If the tank has the ability to pull a single mob from a group, then all he needs to do is tank and kill the single mob.

Now, put a lone tank in an instance against high level mobs that love to agro in large groups. The tank will die.

Put a lone DPS caster in an instanstance against high level mobs that love to agro in large groups. The caster will die.

Now do you get the picture? The game mechanics require people to work together to accomplish a mission.

This is CC 101.

And, in a large and hectic fight the guy responsible for CC is just as important as the tank. someone has to keep the healer alive and help keep the tank alive. Too many heals and the healer pulls agro. With 6 mobs headed for the healer someone has to keep him alive and that is called CC. Also, there will be times that the timer will finish and there are lots of mobs still alive, dead tank unless someone is there to re-mez. So the the CC guy can't simply mez once and go back to watching Bay Watch or whatever.

By the way, this system is supposed to create community by requiring people to work together and that should evolve into talking to eachother, people learn about other people and they want to game together. This is where I have something against WoW, there are raiding guilds that will not let you in their guild because your gear is not good enough. Pathetic. And, this is Blizzard's fault in large part. It is also the players fault because they are too stuck up and look down their noses at those that have lesser gear. They are too lazy to take a little time to help someone else along, all they care about is what they want. Get away from me, you can't play in my sandbox! Sometimes 6 year old kids are more grown up.

Please help me understand what you were trying to get across here. All I'm taking from this is that you think in a games with CC there are classes with different jobs and they all have to do their job for the group to win. I don't see in this post where you make a point to disprove that using CC in PvE to prevent group mates classes weren't designed to take hits from mobs, which in my opinion becomes strategic therefore making it not "dumbed down." Although the forms of CC have may have been "dumbed down." 

 

I certainly am not going to argue that you have to have roles set by classes in a game (Tank, Healer, DPS, CC). However the conversation was about using CC (mezz, specific in this case) was strategic and not just a mindless task preformed by the player to ensue a group win.

 

You are right about one thing to an extent. Having defined class roles is supposed to promote grouping which in turn promotes interaction between people who are of the same faction. This creates community. Games like WoW where Gearscore is implemented (player or developer) does nothing to help the community. It tends to increase the elitist cliche which while funny at times is usually nothing more than a giant pile of giant douchebagery. Frankly, if I am raiding I always look at player skill before gear. Does it help to have a 6.5 GS sure but as anyone who has played WoW recently knows it never means they have 6.5k of what ever you want to deem units of skill. People in WoW far to often forget this. I can't tell you how many good players I've found by giving them a chance to prove themselves in situations where average players with good gear will act exactly like an average player with good gear. It's the great players with quick reactions and thinking that shine in those situations that I want by my side slaying intraweb dragons. On the flip side I can't tell you how many bads I've found in elite gear who were so terrible I just either spammed the kick button until the timer reset or trolled them until they left. It boils down to skill and enjoyment of playing with you as a player for me. I don't care what you are wearing unless you are a lady in which case it better be nothing.

"Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth."

  User Deleted
12/04/10 2:41:12 AM#42

 OP; ever played World of Warcraft? Blizzard, the producers, have (afaik) stated they would reduce(remove?) CC's, still they give more and more CC to many classes. *cough cough* mages *cough cough*. Anarchy Online still have (afaik) just as much CC as ever before. People can be rooted for a LOOOOOONG time there, as there is no "diminishing returns" effect.

 I don't think CC is about to be gone for many years yet. I can agree I see it is being reduced, and I would welcome a complete removal of CC*s, but I think it will always be a part of MMO's.

  discount592

Novice Member

Joined: 12/05/10
Posts: 1

12/05/10 8:50:35 PM#43

i'm happy to be here

  User Deleted
12/08/10 3:12:30 PM#44

I played an Enchanter in EQ1.  I think you could keep 5 or 6 mobs mobs locked down at a time with a mez rotation, backed up by your AOE stuns.  It was a challenging class because that's just the way pulls were.  DPS assisted the tank, you had to take care of everything else.  The downside of that was that every group basically needed an enchanter (until they started doing things like monk unresistable pacifications).  I don't really ever want to see a game like that again, where one class was so dominant in that role and so necessary due to the nature of the pulls that you absolutely needed one in every group.

While I like the idea of giving basically every class a single crowd control method, like WoW, forcing everybody to get involved, even that seems pretty ezmode.  Mage sheep that guy, priest shackle that guy, druid sleep that animal and you're done, especially when the CC lasts a good amount of time (30 seconds or more), and has a shorter cooldown, letting you refresh it at will. 

I like the idea of skillful crowd control.  Say what you want about WoW's hunters being morons for the most part, but you can tell when one of them knows what they're doing with the traps.  The Warlock succubus was another one that you could use to great effect, but relied on the survival of your pet which could EASILY be one shotted.  Or Fear.  Always fun and exciting.

I think a good solution (or the start of one) is to focus on short term effects, as well as ones that don't just completely lock enemies down.  A root or a snare can effectively be a mez, but they require more positioning and coordination than just pushing a button and having a sheep wander around in the middle of mobs are being tanked.  Or a knockback or a knockdown that works just long enough to keep your squishies from being attacked, letting the tank get control back.

TL:DR  I think CC abilities are important to have, but generally the worse they are, the better you have to be to use them to full effectiveness.  And I'm always in favor of games where you can really tell the goods from the bads.

  cybertrucker

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/08/07
Posts: 1126

Freeloading mooches are the scourge of the gaming community.

12/08/10 3:30:25 PM#45

HERE IS THE REASON WHY CROWD CONTROL IS ALMOST A THING OF THE PAST!!!

In most games being developed nowadays, mobs are clustered in a VERY organized structure. Few mobs roam large expanses, indoors or out. Also in dugeons instances players move from place to place instead of camping and relying on a puller to pull to the group requiring the puller to pull further and further away from the group in the process which included more risk that on his way back or out the puller would aggro more mobs than intended.

In games now, players instead move forward going for an objective in a simple and safe orderly fashion. Once the players learn the patterns of an instance or area, it pretty much will always be that way. This is one of the reasons that when players enter an instance for the first time as a group of friends it is much harder as they have to learn the very simplistic and small areas that patrols do roam.

There are 2 more recent Post WOW games that have actually done Crowd control some justice..Those 2 would be Vanguard Saga of Heroes and Aion..The Psioncist from Vanguard was excellent at Crowd control at higher levels. Aion plays like a hybrid inmho to WOW and EQ1...

You could throw EQ2 in there as well I didnt play high enough in EQ2 as i didnt care for it which sucks. Because I loved EQ1 and to this day is still probably the best game I have ever played. Vanguard ranking a close 2nd. Aion is currently growing on me some as well.

3 Pages « 1 2 3 Search