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Hardware  » Hardware wise, today has not been a good day.

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26 posts found
  Grunty

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/06/04
Posts: 6804

 
OP  11/19/10 4:07:07 PM#1

First my chair breaks. It's almost 20 years old and cost about $500.00 but getting it fixed is only going to cost about $25.00. Bringing it out into the sunlight showed how stained and shop worn it had become. So there goes another $50 -$100 to get it upholstered.

Then my Nvidia 9800 GT dies. I'm getting random ASCII characters during DOS boot up. Windows won't even try to let it run. Any suggestions for a replacement? My absolute max on that it $200.00. I see the thread below about a 285 where the consensus appears to be a GTX 460 1GB. If that'll work then there's no reason to spend another 2 hours  rehashing the same thing.

A PSU isn't an issue but I also don't want a noisy card.

  KilorTheMeek

Novice Member

Joined: 3/03/10
Posts: 264

Sweet lemonade, yeah sweet lemonade...

11/19/10 4:09:07 PM#2

Definitely a GTX 460 at that budget.  Nothing else compares at that price.  


Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level, then beat you with experience.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13318

11/19/10 5:39:44 PM#3

At MSRP, there is an obvious correct choice, and the Radeon HD 6850 is it.  Cards haven't been staying at MSRP, though.  The Radeon HD 6850 is too good of a deal at $180, and sites haven't been able to keep them in stock at that price, so they've raised prices and they're hard to find at $180 anymore.  You can probably find one from a number of brands for $200.

Meanwhile, Nvidia's competitor is the GeForce GTX 460, and they've apparently made too many of them and are having trouble getting rid of them after AMD undercut them on prices with a better card that costs much less to build.  Rumors say that Nvidia is going to nix the die in favor of a respin that will be branded as the GeForce GTX 560 early next year, which also means they need to get rid of their old GTX 460s.  So there are some good deals to be found on a GeForce GTX 460.

Do note that there are at least four different cards that go by the name of GeForce GTX 460.  That's not counting factory overclocks or different board vendors, either.  This will get you about 90% of the performance of the "real" one, if you're running at a resolution of 1680x1050 or lower:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814162058

That's a great deal if you don't need 1 GB of video memory.

On the other hand, the Radeon HD 6850 and 6870 didn't just undercut Nvidia cards; they undercut older AMD cards that AMD has now had to slash prices on to get rid of them.  If you regard rebates as "free" and want the fastest new card you can get for $200, then this is it:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102884

A Radeon HD 5850 is on average perhaps 30% faster than a GeForce GTX 460 768 MB.  The two cards use about the same power, as both have a TDP right around 150 W and need two 6-pin PCI-E power connectors.  Both use significantly more power than a Radeon HD 6850, which is about 10% faster than a GeForce GTX 460 768 MB, and significantly slower than a Radeon HD 5850.

  Grunty

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/06/04
Posts: 6804

 
OP  11/19/10 6:12:27 PM#4

Thank you. My current system's resolution is 1280 x 1024 but in the next 3 - 6 months I will be researching and getting a 23" + widescreen monitor with resolutions of around 1920 x whatever.  The combination of screen size and resolution will be determined by whether I have no issues reading text in-game on whichever combination I get at the native resolution. I'm aware of the various image quality issues with contrast, grey to grey speed, brightness, hz, and so on.

And with a currently dead card, waiting six months for new hardware is out of the question on that. Multiple card or monitor combinations are out of the question.

Inadequate power supplys have contributed to my last two cards dieing early. That won't happen again.

  User Deleted
11/19/10 6:24:25 PM#5

From everything I've read the 6850 looks like the best option for you, If you can get one at your price, before they are out of stock again. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150505 oh crud theres shipping on this one ,,,crap

When they released they were under 200, but have been climbing in price.

failing that http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127510 199.99 tho I found that the Hawk was even beter but is 9 bucks above your price range. The prices on the 460's will bounce as the 6850 is pretty much dictating their price mark. crap shipping again, $25 rebate if that makes it do able.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125333 189.99 ten dollar rebate.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13318

11/19/10 6:42:21 PM#6

On your budget, there's nothing all that important coming in video cards.  A GeForce GTX 560 will probably offer roughly Radeon HD 6870 performance at a Radeon HD 6870 price.  Turks and Caicos may or may not offer better performance per dollar in their market segments than older cards, but that's below your budget and at best, would mean saving $10 or $20 for the same performance.  If you were looking to spend over $300 on a card, then Cayman would be worth waiting for, but that's out of your budget.  Other than those, there's nothing new coming until the industry moves to 28 nm HKMG processes, which could happen next summer if we're lucky.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13318

11/19/10 6:46:35 PM#7

If you're going to buy a new monitor anyway, I'd keep the old one so that you can have two.  It's very convenient to have a browser or spreadsheet open on a second monitor that you can glance at while you're playing a game.  Nearly all modern video cards can take at least two monitors, and a second monitor not doing any significant 3D acceleration doesn't strain the video card meaningfully while playing games on the main monitor.  If you've never used two monitors before, it probably won't take you long to wonder how you ever got by with only one.

  Grunty

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/06/04
Posts: 6804

 
OP  11/20/10 2:04:53 AM#8

This is probably what I'll get especially if they have it at the Dallas store in the morning: http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0351735  The issue I have with that listing is I haven't found the warranty information. VTX3D appears to be in the same corporate family as PowerColor.

Although that $135.00 GTX 460 768mb you gave is setting off my bargain alarms.

  Reizla

Elite Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 3032

MMORPGs are no longer about the mass multi-user anymore *sadly*

11/20/10 2:12:37 AM#9
Originally posted by KilorTheMeek

Definitely a GTX 460 at that budget.  Nothing else compares at that price.  

I could not agree more (I own one myself). And IMO, best to buy one from EVGA. Today they made a BIOS patch that updates performance and OC abilities (http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=498804)

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  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13318

11/20/10 2:33:39 AM#10
Originally posted by grunty

This is probably what I'll get especially if they have it at the Dallas store in the morning: http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0351735  The issue I have with that listing is I haven't found the warranty information. VTX3D appears to be in the same corporate family as PowerColor.

Although that $135.00 GTX 460 768mb you gave is setting off my bargain alarms.

768 MB at 1920x1080 is risky.  It might work just fine and never give you any trouble.  Or it might run out of video memory in some games and force you to turn graphical settings down to well below what the card could have handled with more video memory.  At worst, it won't turn into a "game won't run" type of situation; you'll still be able to get good frame rates, but just at lower graphical settings.

If you're looking to buy from MicroCenter and don't want to mess with rebates, then the Radeon HD 6850 that you picked out is probably the best deal on their site on your budget.  It's interesting that the Cypress cards are completely gone from their site already.

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16615

11/20/10 2:52:36 AM#11

http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/2010-gaming-graphics-charts-high-quality/Sum-of-FPS-Benchmarks-Totals,2485.html

A benchmark test of most modern GFX cards. Get the best you can get find for your money.

I would probably go for the 1Gb 460 GTX card myself since I don't think you can wait for AMDs next card that most likely will release in next month, it would be a better deal but a month without a gaming computer sucks.

Don't believe me, use the chart instead to find out yourself (unless you can wait a month). :)

  Catamount

Novice Member

Joined: 10/02/09
Posts: 775

11/20/10 9:21:43 AM#12
Originally posted by Loke666

http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/2010-gaming-graphics-charts-high-quality/Sum-of-FPS-Benchmarks-Totals,2485.html

A benchmark test of most modern GFX cards. Get the best you can get find for your money.

I would probably go for the 1Gb 460 GTX card myself since I don't think you can wait for AMDs next card that most likely will release in next month, it would be a better deal but a month without a gaming computer sucks.

Don't believe me, use the chart instead to find out yourself (unless you can wait a month). :)

AMD "next" cards, as in the ones designed to compete with the Geforce GTX460, are already out. That's what's being discussed here. The 6850 and 6870 have been out for a bit now; that Tom's Hardware list just doesn't include them. The Radeon HD 6850 is as fast as the Geforce GTX460 across the board; in fact it's slightly faster in ever review I've ever seen, usually in every single game that isn't Farcry 2. The 6870 is a bit faster than the 470 (though sometimes not just a bit :) ).

The only response Nvidia has had is to slash prices to death on their cards and sell them at no profit (if not a loss), and that does make them a good deal, though usually you have to deal with rebates to get those prices.

  swing848

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/07/10
Posts: 270

Barack Obama = The wrong kind of change.

11/20/10 9:38:18 AM#13



Originally posted by Loke666
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/2010-gaming-graphics-charts-high-quality/Sum-of-FPS-Benchmarks-Totals,2485.html
A benchmark test of most modern GFX cards. Get the best you can get find for your money.
I would probably go for the 1Gb 460 GTX card myself since I don't think you can wait for AMDs next card that most likely will release in next month, it would be a better deal but a month without a gaming computer sucks.
Don't believe me, use the chart instead to find out yourself (unless you can wait a month). :)

Tom has not updated that chart for HD 6800 series cards. May be he is waiting for 2011 ...

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  Grunty

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/06/04
Posts: 6804

 
OP  11/20/10 6:39:37 PM#14

Is this power supply Antec NeoPower 550 sufficient for this graphics card VTX3D Radeon HD6850  or not? The card is supposed to require a 450 watt PSU. The power supply is an efficient 550 watt PSU and has 3 12V+ rails @18amps each. I have been unable to find any amperage requirements for any Radeon 6850. The test given in that link on the PSU indicates it is capable of working at up to 650 watts. But I'm not an expert at PSUs. I don't want to be an expert at PSUs. I just want one that works properly.

I removed my 9800 GT. I removed it's drivers. I used Guru3d's driver remover to ensure all Nvidia drivers were gone.

I bought the card and installed it. I downloaded the latest Catalyst drivers ver 10.11. I attempted to install them.  All cables are properly installed and seated. The PSU has a modular cable system. I even tried the PCI-E power cable in a different slot. The only new hardware that has been recognised is the new ATI audio subsystem. The only drivers installed were for this audio system.

I'm about to take this card back for a refund. The install CD is defective with bad blocks. There is absolutely no warranty information provided. And this card is not being recognized.

I am an A+ Certified Service Technician and have been one since the days of Windows 3.11.

Actually I'm starting to think it may be the motherboard and ECS G31T-M  with an Intel Core 2 Duo E6550

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13318

11/20/10 7:15:41 PM#15

http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/1011releasenotes.aspx

Catalyst 10.11 doesn't support the Radeon HD 6850 or 6870.  It's an update for older cards, but AMD didn't have anything to update yet for the new Barts cards.  You'll be back on the normal schedule for driver updates with Catalyst 10.12.

You need Catalyst 10.10.  Or probably better yet if you have Windows 7, the Catalyst 10.10e hotfix drivers.

When you go to download drivers from AMD, pick your operating system as normal here and it will bring up Catalyst 10.11:

http://sites.amd.com/us/game/downloads/Pages/downloads.aspx

Then click the "previous drivers" link near the bottom and it will offer older drivers.  Pick Catalyst 10.10 and it should work.

-----

The power supply should be plenty powerful enough.  I can't promise that it isn't defective, or that your motherboard isn't defective.  But do try Catalyst 10.10 first.

  Grunty

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/06/04
Posts: 6804

 
OP  11/20/10 7:59:43 PM#16

Thank you for your assistance but it is still failing. I did what you said to get previous driver versions but the most recent version for Win 7 32bit is listed as 10.7. I downloaded that. I uninstalled the 10.11 versions, rebooted, ran Driver Sweeper, rebooted and installed the 10.7 install app. I ran that install app. There has been no change in hardware detection. The only thing detected is the ATI audio.

I've had my fill of bull shit for the day. The card is going back. A 90 mile round trip. A defective CD. No warranty information. A (to me) no-name manufacturer. A card that isn't recognized.

I'm signing off and cooling down before I decide how to proceed from here.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13318

11/20/10 8:06:10 PM#17

https://a248.e.akamai.net/f/674/9206/0/www2.ati.com/drivers/10-10_vista32_win7_32_dd_ccc_enu.exe

There.  That's a direct link.  Try that.  That's what the AMD web site found as the Windows 7 32-bit drivers for a Radeon 6xxx series card.

Catalyst 10.7 isn't going to work, either.  That was released long before the video card you just bought, so it won't recognize the card.

  Grunty

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/06/04
Posts: 6804

 
OP  11/20/10 8:09:38 PM#18

Unauthorized download.

In both IE8 and Firefox 3.6

Same thing if I try to drop the akamai.com pre-link.

I was able to get to it through a link on the Leech page though. Downloading now.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13318

11/20/10 8:11:49 PM#19

Weird.  It gives me that, too, and all I did was to copy the link address.  Well, here's the page that the link was on:

http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/windows/previous/10/Pages/radeon.aspx?os=Windows%20Vista%20-%2032-Bit%20Edition&rev=10.10

The top "download" link for Catalyst Software Suite is the one you want.  I tried clicking the link from that page and it brought up the window to save the file.

  Grunty

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/06/04
Posts: 6804

 
OP  11/20/10 8:15:09 PM#20

I'll also download the hotfix if I can get to it. The hotfix is twice the size of the default 10.10 version. I will attempt the hotfix first.

After reading up on it first

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