So, I'm sitting here looking over the screenshots for War of Angels, thoroughly impressed and I started thinking of how some would refer to the graphics as "cartoonish". I've seen people say this about many games, including one of my favorites (LotRO). I don't agree, I actually think these are some of the better looking games I've seen.

I guess the debate over graphics and whats possible will never die, Some are happy with MMO graphics as they are, while others long for that, "Ultra realistic" look.

I guess my question is: "Are ultra-realistic graphics really the way to go?"

Originally posted by merv808

So, I'm sitting here looking over the screenshots for War of Angels, thoroughly impressed and I started thinking of how some would refer to the graphics as "cartoonish". I've seen people say this about many games, including one of my favorites (LotRO). I don't agree, I actually think these are some of the better looking games I've seen.

I guess the debate over graphics and whats possible will never die, Some are happy with MMO graphics as they are, while others long for that, "Ultra realistic" look.

I guess my question is: "Are ultra-realistic graphics really the way to go?"

 For those who can't let go of the embarresment at the fact that they are still just playing with "pixels" yes for the rest of the gameplaying world (the ones who can actually turn a profit) the answer is no.

Short answer is no.

The most stunning games out there goes beyond realism with intensive colours and unnatural lightning. In reality the world is much more "grey".

As for cartoonish styled games or not I think it's highly dependant on indivual taste. Personally I find it highly dependant on the game aswell. I could never take a "cartoon" game seriously, it suits better for humorous settings.

Isn't MMOs all about escapism from reality? Using ultra-realistic graphics would somewhat take away part of that aspect. We want humanoid characters, but we don't humanoid characters that can just as well represent our real significant other in near every detail. A little cartoonism is, I think, required.

Besides, every kid's* dreamed of wanting to see that big ol' black tower by the edge of that particular cliff, with spider legs hanging out and a cackling professor standing at the top, hands on hips, who just made Frankenstein 2 in his warped laboratory. We ain't gonna be able to see it if we're going to go ultra realistic.

*every kid with a wild sense of adventure

In my opinion, no.

Part of the escapism for me is to live in a world that is not like the real world. I appreciate stylized designs and "unreal" visuals.

Originally posted by Rockgod99
I don't think so. In my opinion games that use realistic graphics just don't age as well. I always go with stylized because I don't like the idea of my game becoming old and ugly five years after release. Eq2 is one of those games that look terrible now while a game like wow, lotro and War will look pleasing to the eye for damn near 10 years.

So the choice is between... looking terrible now, or looking terrible later.

Almost no MMOs have GOOD stylized graphics. Wind Waker is a great ageless game, WoW doesn't match it in the slightest. 

And games like Dark Age of Camelot, that haven't been updated since 2004 STILL look better than many MMOs, despite having realistic graphics. 

Of course not.  What'd even give you that idea?

Style has always trumped realism.

DAOC has always had my favorite graphics for a fantasy mmorpg. I know I'm in the minority here though since I rarely see anyone agree other than one of my RL friends. Most people seem to dislike DAOC's graphics. 

EDIT in response to posts below this: Yeah, I forgot to say that I kind of think DAOC has somewhat realistic graphics. Not too much, but just enough. That's part of the basis for my opinion above. 

Originally posted by Garvon3

Originally posted by Rockgod99
I don't think so. In my opinion games that use realistic graphics just don't age as well. I always go with stylized because I don't like the idea of my game becoming old and ugly five years after release. Eq2 is one of those games that look terrible now while a game like wow, lotro and War will look pleasing to the eye for damn near 10 years.

So the choice is between... looking terrible now, or looking terrible later.

Almost no MMOs have GOOD stylized graphics. Wind Waker is a great ageless game, WoW doesn't match it in the slightest. 

And games like Dark Age of Camelot, that haven't been updated since 2004 STILL look better than many MMOs, despite having realistic graphics. 

DAoC at release had realistic graphics, but they watered it down over time. The legendary weapons looked more Asian than European, and many of the SI axes looked nothing like real weapons. I prefer realistic-looking graphics, but it all depends on the game and the setting.

LotRO has many great qualities, however I think many of their bows looks a bit weird, in lack of a better word. It is by far one of the better games out there.

It is how well you do it, not the art style in itself.

Of course everyone prefer some styles over others but that is just naturally.

I can play a game with almost any kind of styles, I like realistic armors and weapons to mention one thing but Final fantasy weapons wont turn me off if they are well enough done.

But I do have a problem with most Manga styled game, they use that as an excuse for really low polygon effects and bad animations (I blame Pokemon for all bad animations, the cartoon looks like it's lagging). I read manga myself but the games I tried with that kind of art style were so bad that they were unplayable.

AoC has fantastic graphics, but players havnt flocked to it. Also new releases with ultra-realism tend to alienate players who dont have top of the line computers.

In the end, Gameplay trumps graphics.

Eh, no I don't think it's the way to go.  Not because it's a bad thing but because I don't think there is any real way to go when making games. If everyone went for ultra-realism than the industry would start to lose the art behind it that makes each title unique.

I am a very visual person, and for me a MMO or any game which really wants to hold my attention must look good. That does not necessarily mean photorealism. But for me everything stylized soon looks unrealistic and ultimately ugly. Not so much in itself, but because stylized usually leads to stereotypes.

Take WOW. All males are square-chested and square-faced guys, all females are "vixens". With the exception of male Blood Elves. And that is all WAY to stereotypical for me. What if I want to play a thin mal acrobatic human thief? What if I want to play a muscular and robust female warrior like a Valkyrie? Stylized usually takes all these decisions away from me in order to streamline me into a copy cat of everyone else. It just looks flat. See LOTRO, see WOW. Most ugly characters thinkable. When it comes to characters, stylized is a total no-go for me. I just hate it.

In landscape, a balance between stylized and realism CAN work, if really made well. But it takes CONSIDERABLY more artistic sense to make stylized landscape look cool and stunning. WOW landscape never did that for me, and tbh the ugly look of characters and landscape was MY personal reason Number One not to play WOW. I always felt sorta like in disneyland. LOTRO is the only stylized landscape that really worked, because they know a ton about design and placement. But every other stylized landscape I have EVER seen in a game sucked. At least for me. Most terrible example are the FUGLY characters and landscapes of Warhammer... terrible. Absolutely terrible.

So yes, I WANT REALISM. The more detail the better. If I have to "imagine things in my head", I can close my eyes and I don't have to pay a monthly fee, I can do THAT for free all day, thanks.

I think it all depends on how it is done.  You don't see a lot of ultra-realistic cartoons, right?  It's all about the visual style.  Realism is harder to do... and even harder to do WELL. 

Originally posted by Elikal

I am a very visual person, and for me a MMO or any game which really wants to hold my attention must look good. That does not necessarily mean photorealism. But for me everything stylized soon looks unrealistic and ultimately ugly. Not so much in itself, but because stylized usually leads to stereotypes.

Take WOW. All males are square-chested and square-faced guys, all females are "vixens". With the exception of male Blood Elves. And that is all WAY to stereotypical for me. What if I want to play a thin mal acrobatic human thief? What if I want to play a muscular and robust female warrior like a Valkyrie? Stylized usually takes all these decisions away from me in order to streamline me into a copy cat of everyone else. It just looks flat. See LOTRO, see WOW. Most ugly characters thinkable. When it comes to characters, stylized is a total no-go for me. I just hate it.

 

In landscape, a balance between stylized and realism CAN work, if really made well. But it takes CONSIDERABLY more artistic sense to make stylized landscape look cool and stunning. WOW landscape never did that for me, and tbh the ugly look of characters and landscape was MY personal reason Number One not to play WOW. I always felt sorta like in disneyland. LOTRO is the only stylized landscape that really worked, because they know a ton about design and placement. But every other stylized landscape I have EVER seen in a game sucked. At least for me. Most terrible example are the FUGLY characters and landscapes of Warhammer... terrible. Absolutely terrible.

So yes, I WANT REALISM. The more detail the better. If I have to "imagine things in my head", I can close my eyes and I don't have to pay a monthly fee, I can do THAT for free all day, thanks.

good post

Realistic characters are more likely to invoke empathy from the audience. If you're a guy, and your avatar looks like a guy, maybe even looks like you, you instantly have some form of bond to that character.

However the success of games like PW, WoW and Fiesta easily prove that realism is not a necessity.

As for War of Angels...I dunno dude, I think you're just easily impressed.

Originally posted by Rockgod99
I don't think so. In my opinion games that use realistic graphics just don't age as well. I always go with stylized because I don't like the idea of my game becoming old and ugly five years after release. Eq2 is one of those games that look terrible now while a game like wow, lotro and War will look pleasing to the eye for damn near 10 years.

So different are tastes. Au contraire mon Captan, I find EQ2 still playable, while Warhammer and WOW looked WAAY too fugly even at day one for me.

Generally there are two ways to make stylized characters, Western = Warhammer and Eastern = Anime. Both I do not like to see. It doesn't have to be Crysis level photorealism... tho Crysis was UBER cool. IMVPO. XD

Its a fantasy game.... how realistic is that?

Its all about atmosphere for me, and not about realisme.

The only thing that needs to be realistic is annimations.