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34 posts found
  SteamRanger

Novice Member

Joined: 10/24/03
Posts: 921

I don''t have to know how to make a better game, I only need to know where the "CANCEL" button is!

 
OP  10/12/10 2:26:18 AM#1

The end of the world begins today. What are your thoughts on Azeroth reimagined by Greg Street and Co.? I'm finding myself not being all that interested in learning my class again.

"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II
"People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4754

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

10/12/10 2:27:40 AM#2

i hope it doesn't suck...i really hope it doesn't suck. I'd hate going to blizzcon with a sick aste in my mouth.

  Arnstrong

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/11/10
Posts: 302

10/12/10 2:50:37 AM#3
Originally posted by Robokapp

i hope it doesn't suck...i really hope it doesn't suck. I'd hate going to blizzcon with a sick aste in my mouth.

What do you expect?

All classes are redesigned from scratch. No one is going to recognise his usual spells and abilities and general "easy" Aoe is taken off from the classes.

We wiped yesterday on the PTR in Azul Nerub on trash: tank doesn't hold agro and the Wotlk AOE designed dungeons must be conquered with limited and timed (read based on procs) aoe abilities.

Of course it will suck for the coming weeks/months.

I pity GC already. Better find a good guild fast, because I am no longer going in with a PUG the coming weeks.

  DeViLzzz2007

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/21/07
Posts: 108

10/12/10 2:56:50 AM#4

I really am not thrilled about learning in WOTLK what is supposed to be meant for Cataclysm.  I understand this has been done before but this is only going to slow down my guild's raid progression again.

Money is the root of all evil.

  maji

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/15/04
Posts: 1937

10/12/10 2:57:54 AM#5
Originally posted by LordDraekon

 I'm finding myself not being all that interested in learning my class again.

Exactly that though is one of the reasons why I still play WoW. I like changes. Sure, you can say "most is the same", still, compare it to WAR for example. Here some textures changed, dort some other tiny thing different after a patch, but nothing that matters to anyone except the most hardcore fans.

In WoW? Yep, takes a while until a patch comes out. But: lots of changes. New skills, talent trees, items, stats added and removed and huge change to the classes in general.

I'm looking forward to try tomorrow (playing european WoW where maintenance is on wednesday instead of tuesday) all kinds of different talent builds with my chars. To see which of my hunter pets have now what awesome abilities, how the damage / healing / tanking abilities changes, how the currency system changed and what items I can buy now what way.

Sure, Blizzard is doing quite some things wrong, and WoW ain't the holy grail either. But changes such as in patches tomorrow are just plain awesome. Doesn't even matter if not all changes with the patch are good, the important is: things change. There is new stuff to try out.

Raiding on friday in my casual guild will be quite some fun, seeing how well we do with allt he new stuff.

Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)

Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)

  Faelan

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/13/04
Posts: 831

Oops - looks like I'm an internet dog who somehow learned how to type. What has the world come to?

10/12/10 5:27:09 AM#6

My subscription conveniently ran out the other day. I'll just grab some popcorn, sit back, relax and play some EVE while I watch the drama on the forums unfold. Then when the dust has settled and 4.0.3 is near, I'll pop back in for a good look and hopefully find out if Cataclysm is worth getting or not. I mean, if it turns out that I hate the class changes and the revamped old world can't make up for it, then I might as well save some money and invest them elsewhere. In the scheme of things, Cataclysm is just more of the same in a slightly fancier wrapping.

I'm a big ol' fluffy carewolf. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

  TheHavok

Novice Member

Joined: 7/13/04
Posts: 2430

"Free crack and everybody gets laid."

10/12/10 5:42:45 AM#7

its going to be awesome!!!!

I'm just hoping a situation doesn't develop where one class is completely overpowered and out of the sync of the rest of the classes, like how ret pallies were right before wotlk.

This isn't the first time they have revamped the talents...so really, stop the QQ-fest.  Re-learning your class with new abilities is fun and keeps the game from getting too stale.

Also: I'm completely fine with them ramping up the difficulty in dungeons and requiring CC.  Make it like vanilla and TBC days where DPS had to actually do something besides mashing their AOE abilities.

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4754

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

10/12/10 6:13:10 AM#8
Originally posted by Arnstrong
Originally posted by Robokapp

i hope it doesn't suck...i really hope it doesn't suck. I'd hate going to blizzcon with a sick aste in my mouth.

What do you expect?

 my paladin to still FEEL LIKE a paladin.

I'm not interested in easy/hard. I'm interested in fun/unfun.

I chose my class for a reason...and there are certain classes, rogue included that just arent for me. And i hope my paladin won't feel too much like rogue and not enough like paladin.

 

  Arnstrong

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/11/10
Posts: 302

10/12/10 6:48:35 AM#9
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by Arnstrong
Originally posted by Robokapp

i hope it doesn't suck...i really hope it doesn't suck. I'd hate going to blizzcon with a sick aste in my mouth.

What do you expect?

 my paladin to still FEEL LIKE a paladin.

I'm not interested in easy/hard. I'm interested in fun/unfun.

I chose my class for a reason...and there are certain classes, rogue included that just arent for me. And i hope my paladin won't feel too much like rogue and not enough like paladin.

 

Well I guess you'll have a sick taste at Blizzcon then ;))

I am ditching my paladin. Going for the rogue.

I am afraid a lot of tanks/healers will throw in the towell.

A pity they didn't introduce the new class/races combos  yet.

It would have been ideal.

  pierth

Novice Member

Joined: 4/14/06
Posts: 1515

10/12/10 7:38:57 AM#10

Everyone said it'd take Blizzard to kill WoW, heh.

  BeansnBread

Elite Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5557

10/12/10 7:40:24 AM#11

It's gonna be rough on tanks.

 

Wait, let me fix that.

 

It's not going to be as ridiculously easymode as it was in WotLK for tanks.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  SteamRanger

Novice Member

Joined: 10/24/03
Posts: 921

I don''t have to know how to make a better game, I only need to know where the "CANCEL" button is!

 
OP  10/12/10 8:20:11 AM#12
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by Arnstrong
Originally posted by Robokapp

i hope it doesn't suck...i really hope it doesn't suck. I'd hate going to blizzcon with a sick aste in my mouth.

What do you expect?

 my paladin to still FEEL LIKE a paladin.

I'm not interested in easy/hard. I'm interested in fun/unfun.

I chose my class for a reason...and there are certain classes, rogue included that just arent for me. And i hope my paladin won't feel too much like rogue and not enough like paladin.

 

 This is where I start to have issues. Too many times I've read where Street has commented, "We changed / removed this because it just wasn't fun". I have to ask, by whose standards? And what makes his (team's?) perception more important than the player who has played his class for nearly six years?

To me, this is further evidence of the sheer contempt Blizzard has for its customers. Many of these changes aren't really improvements, they just seem to be change for the sake of change.

"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II
"People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift

  Emhster

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/28/09
Posts: 913

Played: Shadowbane, WoW, WAR, AOC, Aion, SWTOR, Rift, Tera

10/12/10 8:28:41 AM#13

Ahh well. You always have to re-learn your class anyways. As a mage I had to learn new rotations like 4 times during WotLK (up until I quit raiding in 3.2)

And this comic always comes to my mind when talking about dev balancing classes :)

  unbound55

Novice Member

Joined: 8/03/09
Posts: 328

10/12/10 8:36:22 AM#14
Originally posted by LordDraekon
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by Arnstrong
Originally posted by Robokapp

i hope it doesn't suck...i really hope it doesn't suck. I'd hate going to blizzcon with a sick aste in my mouth.

What do you expect?

 my paladin to still FEEL LIKE a paladin.

I'm not interested in easy/hard. I'm interested in fun/unfun.

I chose my class for a reason...and there are certain classes, rogue included that just arent for me. And i hope my paladin won't feel too much like rogue and not enough like paladin.

 

 This is where I start to have issues. Too many times I've read where Street has commented, "We changed / removed this because it just wasn't fun". I have to ask, by whose standards? And what makes his (team's?) perception more important than the player who has played his class for nearly six years?

To me, this is further evidence of the sheer contempt Blizzard has for its customers. Many of these changes aren't really improvements, they just seem to be change for the sake of change.

I agree 100%.  This happened leading up to the release of Wrath...and once I experienced the changes to WoW-EasyMode, I left shortly thereafter.  In the couple of months after release, Ghostcrawler was very clear that they were happy with the changes (which finalized my resolve to leave).

 

With Ghostcrawler still at the helm, I actually have no interest in Cata.  The only thing that has peaked interest for me is the comments that people are wiping due to tanks not being able to hold aggro...which may actually herald a return to tanks being required to know what they are doing, cc needs to be performed, and dps has to think before they shoot / hit.  Which, to the point raised in red above, is just utter contempt for the customer to be making such sweeping changes...on the flip side, it may actually mean a return of challenge to the game.

 

I'll continue sitting on the sidelines and see how this plays out.  Probably still won't resub, but doesn't mean I can't enjoy the fireworks from where I am...

  SteamRanger

Novice Member

Joined: 10/24/03
Posts: 921

I don''t have to know how to make a better game, I only need to know where the "CANCEL" button is!

 
OP  10/12/10 8:53:44 AM#15

It's funny. Reading about the coming changes and even dropping onto the Test Realm to see for myself, I was reminded of the development of Icewind Dale II. It was well publicized that this would be the last game using the game engine that had been around since Baldur's Gate. The fanbase was kind of nostalgic seeing the familiar, yet expansive,  features that would release with the new game and looking forward to Black Isle's other new  title with a new engine already under development. Black Isle had another hit on their hands.

Then it happened. A few months before the projected release, the Lead Developer, JE Sawyer, decided to scrap much of what they had and virtually redesign the whole game with a whole mess of changes that bore little resemblance to anything they had done before. Suddenly, players that were excited and anxiously awaiting what would be the capstone of a considerable line of RPGs were unhappy and increasingly disinterested in Sawyer's "vision".  Long story short, the game missed its projected release by a long shot and by the time it finally did hit the shelves, it was a buggy, barely recognizable mess. Icewind Dale II tanked hard, the new game was scrapped, and Black Isle closed its doors shortly afterwards.

Now I know that this won't kill WoW (right away anyway), but redesigning a game from the ground up, just because you want to, has never proved to be a good idea.

"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II
"People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift

  User Deleted
10/12/10 9:38:18 AM#16

The beta is awesome, the changes are not so drastic that a paladin will not feel like a paladin. All the changes are tastefully done, and it flows very well (IMO). I have been in the beta for a while and did not like WoTLK for what it did to dungeons and all the AOE, and this is coming from a Mage. Cataclysm dungeons are hard, and challenging again, which I enjoy. I'm glad they made all the changes, gives me a reason to reroll a character and play through 1-60 again. I am welcoming these changes with open arms.

  Faelsun

Novice Member

Joined: 6/23/07
Posts: 482

10/12/10 9:55:07 AM#17

Ah yes the day of dread.. Im glad I retired in 3.2, looking forward to knowing how Crappy GC ruined WOW this time, it should be twice over worse than WOTLK.. . and thats bad.

  Murashu

Novice Member

Joined: 6/23/06
Posts: 1397

10/12/10 10:03:36 AM#18

I'm having mixed results so far. I love the changes to my Shaman and healing is actually fun again, but not really loving the changes to my Warlock. It's insane how much damage my lock does now, but I was quite happy with it before the changes.

 

I honestly don't understand why people are complaining so much on the PTR. I've run dungeons every night with some guildies and we haven't had any issues. Things must change significantly at 81+, but I don't have beta access so I can only comment on the lvl 80 content.

www.agonysend.org

  Faelsun

Novice Member

Joined: 6/23/07
Posts: 482

10/12/10 10:04:11 AM#19
Originally posted by unbound55
Originally posted by LordDraekon
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by Arnstrong
Originally posted by Robokapp

i hope it doesn't suck...i really hope it doesn't suck. I'd hate going to blizzcon with a sick aste in my mouth.

What do you expect?

 my paladin to still FEEL LIKE a paladin.

I'm not interested in easy/hard. I'm interested in fun/unfun.

I chose my class for a reason...and there are certain classes, rogue included that just arent for me. And i hope my paladin won't feel too much like rogue and not enough like paladin.

 

 This is where I start to have issues. Too many times I've read where Street has commented, "We changed / removed this because it just wasn't fun". I have to ask, by whose standards? And what makes his (team's?) perception more important than the player who has played his class for nearly six years?

To me, this is further evidence of the sheer contempt Blizzard has for its customers. Many of these changes aren't really improvements, they just seem to be change for the sake of change.

I agree 100%.  This happened leading up to the release of Wrath...and once I experienced the changes to WoW-EasyMode, I left shortly thereafter.  In the couple of months after release, Ghostcrawler was very clear that they were happy with the changes (which finalized my resolve to leave).

 

With Ghostcrawler still at the helm, I actually have no interest in Cata.  The only thing that has peaked interest for me is the comments that people are wiping due to tanks not being able to hold aggro...which may actually herald a return to tanks being required to know what they are doing, cc needs to be performed, and dps has to think before they shoot / hit.  Which, to the point raised in red above, is just utter contempt for the customer to be making such sweeping changes...on the flip side, it may actually mean a return of challenge to the game.

 

I'll continue sitting on the sidelines and see how this plays out.  Probably still won't resub, but doesn't mean I can't enjoy the fireworks from where I am...

 Well on the plus side for  Paladins he made them so easy to play they shouldn't change much, 2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2 lol. Basically GC took every class with a healing spec and made their other specs garbage, he turned Shaman into tin cans, had some personal angst against Shadow Priests and Warlocks, and didnt like Hunters and Rogues that much either, Tured Paladins, Warriors and Druids into raid bosses and when we dared questioned him on his terrible class balanceing he acts outraged, like we requested those changes and thenproceeds to make them worse, thats why I call it Ghostcrawlers Private Server since WOTLK, at least BC was tolerable.

  Emhster

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/28/09
Posts: 913

Played: Shadowbane, WoW, WAR, AOC, Aion, SWTOR, Rift, Tera

10/12/10 10:26:42 AM#20
Originally posted by Faelsun

 Well on the plus side for  Paladins he made them so easy to play they shouldn't change much, 2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2 lol. Basically GC took every class with a healing spec and made their other specs garbage, he turned Shaman into tin cans, had some personal angst against Shadow Priests and Warlocks, and didnt like Hunters and Rogues that much either, Tured Paladins, Warriors and Druids into raid bosses and when we dared questioned him on his terrible class balanceing he acts outraged, like we requested those changes and thenproceeds to make them worse, thats why I call it Ghostcrawlers Private Server since WOTLK, at least BC was tolerable.

 

Sure... You mean when raids were stacking 4+ warlocks and 5 shamans per raid, and mages had this stupid damage tax to prevent them from doing jaw dropping damage?

Don't get me wrong. I stopped raiding in 3.2 because I didn't like the way they were designing end game anymore (TOC is an abomination, and uhh ICC 4 times a week for an entire year? NO THANKS). But at least raids won't really stack on classes anymore.

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