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General Discussion

General Discussion 

News & Features Discussion  » General: Top 5 MMO Learning Curves

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125 posts found

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 369

9/29/10 7:18:52 AM#41
Originally posted by Kuro1n

Id say l2s curve is quite extreme as well, for sure not the worst but not far from it.



Rofl, are u serious ? Any retard can play l2 and even play it good. My naber kids who are around 13-14 (not sure) are in good clans and alliances in there. For pvp part u only need good equipment, skill doesn't have anything to do if u will suceed or not in simple pk or pvp. Castle sieges are bit different, but still there is nothing hard, it still mainly depends on how good geared ur clan/alliance is.


Novice Member

Joined: 11/20/05
Posts: 4547

i make art,
till someone dies.

Forum Terrorist

9/29/10 7:20:22 AM#42

A list with awesome games in it. 2 of my top favorite games are in them and i like every game on that list.  This list must be on to something in regards to whats significant difference of top games and bad games.

$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!

"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)



Joined: 8/14/07
Posts: 4933

9/29/10 7:30:39 AM#43
Originally posted by Meridion
Originally posted by japo

Holy Crap....can we please STFU about "PRE-NGE" already.

It's gone, it happened (many many years ago) so get freekin' over it.

It happend four years ago, not 'many many'. You gotta be in the infamous "30 is old and 5 years ago was right after World War 2"-age =)


Uhm, yeah....I'm with you, Meri.  I read that and was like...."WTF? Since when is four years considered 'many many?'"


I also agree with the AO voters.  That game was actually the ONLY game I ever left because it was too confusing to LEARN. At least with the others...I stayed, learned, and enjoyed to varying degrees. I lasted all of one day with a confused look on my face and tears of frustration before I said, "Fuck are supposed to be FUN."  I was unwilling to stick with it TO learn, and that...for pretty rare. So I have no idea if the game is even any good.


Oh...and isn't AC, which was the first addition to the list entirely different game from AO? AC1 was some Microsoft developed, MMO, wasn't it...Asheron's Call?  I never played AC1 (or 2), but I've always heard it was a very good game, and I haven't heard much good, to be honest, about AO.....just sayin'.


UO, by the way, was my MMO "foundation," so I never knew there was "supposed" to be less of a learning curve than that.

President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club


Novice Member

Joined: 8/25/08
Posts: 70

9/29/10 8:10:13 AM#44

Very interesting post.  I hope game developers read it..    When I start a Beta game and uninstall before level 10, I wonder if there is a way for the developers to know when players start dropping out.    Usually I quit because of poor mapping/tracking or don't understand the skill system.  

I can understand why you chose the games you did for this post.   I quit POTBS because I couldn't understand what I was supposed to do, also.  

I think the funniest thing I did in a game, with bad instructions ... in Beta now ... I sailed out on my ship on the first quest and couldn't get back to home port.   I started another character and the same thing happened ... so I quit that game.



Novice Member

Joined: 1/11/05
Posts: 661

SWG: Jess Youngstar(CIA)-AhaziDCUO: Blue Horizon(CIA)STO: John West(USS Texas)NCC-91836

9/29/10 8:52:21 AM#45

Lord, I miss being a newb in SWG (Pre-NGE).  Good write up.


Novice Member

Joined: 1/26/08
Posts: 3541

Trader of EvE Online since July 2003.

9/29/10 8:57:14 AM#46
Originally posted by Ozmodan

I would throw in AC1 in there.  Except for Eve it is far more complex than any of the others and a much better game except for the graphics and the inability to control the bots.

Not sure what you mean here as the graphics are pretty much spot on and the "Bots" [i assume you mean avatar] is easy to controll?


As for the really classic graph i agree 90% as since that graph was made the tutorial has gotten much better.

Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981


Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/17/09
Posts: 2859

9/29/10 9:14:56 AM#47

Good piece and interesting observations. It is also true that people like comfort zones and do attack that which does not adhere to the those parameters. However learning to adapt and sticking with something also shows strength of character and in some ways reflect your own attitude in life.

Uploaded with


Advanced Member

Joined: 8/02/08
Posts: 260

9/29/10 9:29:55 AM#48

I found Mortal Online hard to learn aswell...But that game is verry unknow i guess.

  User Deleted
9/29/10 10:01:51 AM#49

When I tried EVE Online some years ago, the main problem learning that game was the (for me) counter-intuitive user interface.

I am one of those people who prefer big menus with everything I need in it over small menus hidden away everywhere in places that might be logical to some, but not to me. That is one of the reasons I hate th replacement of Microsoft's Office menu by that ribbon-thing, I switch everything in Windows immediately back to "Classic".

Hiding the Autopilot settings at the Star map is unforgivable.


Novice Member

Joined: 8/05/04
Posts: 11

9/29/10 10:19:46 AM#50

Darkfall online is only hard becouse the UI/control system seem to have been designed 15 years ago and not been work on since.

Also old players and the game itself dont really let new players learn the game.

Bad made game is not the same as hardcore game.

  User Deleted
9/29/10 10:24:21 AM#51

Interesting that some of the best games, and games with the most freedom and pvp have the greatest learning curves. I guess people actually find the challenge and depth fun. Not MO challenge of trying to figure out something simple, but the challenge of having to understand complex ideas, ala EVE, and the reward you get for accomplishing this.


Novice Member

Joined: 6/07/04
Posts: 3234

"Damn you, poetical justice" - Homer Simpson

9/29/10 10:52:05 AM#52
Originally posted by japo

Holy Crap....can we please STFU about "PRE-NGE" already.

It's gone, it happened (many many years ago) so get freekin' over it.



- name and location of the person responsible for NGE;

- illegal porn pictures;

- time machine;

I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time. - pre-WW2 genocide.


Novice Member

Joined: 11/18/05
Posts: 311

Today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday.

9/29/10 11:03:34 AM#53
Originally posted by Meridion

Originally posted by japo

Holy Crap....can we please STFU about "PRE-NGE" already.

It's gone, it happened (many many years ago) so get freekin' over it.

It happend four years ago, not 'many many'. You gotta be in the infamous "30 is old and 5 years ago was right after World War 2"-age =)


I'm actually 49 years old....maybe my life experience allows me to deal with life's 'little" things better than most.

Seriously though....people still crying about a game change that happened several years ago. 

How pathetic.


Novice Member

Joined: 6/03/09
Posts: 2510

Revenge is a dish best served with mayonnaise and those little cheesy things on sticks.

9/29/10 11:33:41 AM#54

Best graph ever!

Second best:


Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/07
Posts: 7123

9/29/10 11:41:36 AM#55
Originally posted by japo
Originally posted by Meridion

Originally posted by japo

Holy Crap....can we please STFU about "PRE-NGE" already.

It's gone, it happened (many many years ago) so get freekin' over it.

It happend four years ago, not 'many many'. You gotta be in the infamous "30 is old and 5 years ago was right after World War 2"-age =)


I'm actually 49 years old....maybe my life experience allows me to deal with life's 'little" things better than most.

Seriously though....people still crying about a game change that happened several years ago. 

How pathetic.

The only pathetic thing here is troll posts like yours.  Just to educate you, SWG had some very unique things about it that have not been seen in the MMO community since NGE.   Nothing wrong with lamenting a play style that no longer exists anyplace in the MMO genre.  It is a shame is so many of you never got the chance to experience it.  The game actually had depth to it that none of these modern MMO's come close to matching.


Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/15/09
Posts: 1428

9/29/10 11:50:18 AM#56
Originally posted by japo
Originally posted by Meridion

Originally posted by japo

Holy Crap....can we please STFU about "PRE-NGE" already.

It's gone, it happened (many many years ago) so get freekin' over it.

It happend four years ago, not 'many many'. You gotta be in the infamous "30 is old and 5 years ago was right after World War 2"-age =)

I'm actually 49 years old....maybe my life experience allows me to deal with life's 'little" things better than most.

Seriously though....people still crying about a game change that happened several years ago. 

How pathetic.

If you're so good at getting over "little" things, then you should have just ignored the people lamenting SWG Pre-NGE. Apparently you're not as good as you claim.

Current: None
Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR
Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu
Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN


Novice Member

Joined: 7/02/04
Posts: 3010

9/29/10 12:13:52 PM#57

I'd agree.  I''ll be honest though, most games have something that is complex.  EVE is the king of subtle complexity.  Note that EVE is literally as complex as you want it to be.  By using some of the great tools that exist for EVE players, the complexity is relatively benign.  However, should you delve deeply into EVE and start to truly min-max the game, you may be over your head without some serious higher education, to the order of PhD in economics, sociology, group dynamics or organizational development, mathmatics, etc.


Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/21/07
Posts: 1725

9/29/10 2:40:02 PM#58

without a doubt this is one list that my beloved eve belongs at the top :)


you know what, though?  i would have added eq1.  simply because the learning curve in that game meant learning a whole new archetype of game from scratch.


at least in ff11, people could reference their experiences in EQ.



RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.

Currently Playing EVE, DFUW

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.

Dwight D Eisenhower

My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.

Henry Rollins


Novice Member

Joined: 3/28/06
Posts: 398

East Carolina University, Computer Science BS, 2011

9/29/10 3:56:59 PM#59
Originally posted by SBFord


I believe that you have your axes mixed up...

East Carolina University, Computer Science BS, 2011
Current game: DAOC

Games played and quit: L2, PlanetSide, RF Online, GuildWars, SWG, COH/COV, Vanguard, LOTRO, WoW, WW2 Online, FFXI, Auto-Assault, EVE Online, ShadowBane, RYL, Rappelz, Last Chaos, Myst Online, POTBS, EQ2, Warhammer Online, AoC, Aion, Champions Online, Star Trek Online, Allods, Darkfall.

Waiting on: Earthrise

Names: Citio, Goldie, Sportacus


Novice Member

Joined: 3/23/05
Posts: 895

9/29/10 4:12:26 PM#60

So, is the original author of the graph going to get credit or are you just stealing art assets now?

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