Originally posted by Vanzi

It's not THAT hard to learn EVE tbh. There are many teaching corporations (Eve University, Unseen Academy, etc) and lots of people willing to help on Rookie channel, there's also a decent Wiki and many guides available on Youtube. 

I agree that it's not WoW-like idiot-friendly but that's one of the reasons I play EVE.

Also, EVE's tutorials have gotten much more user friendly over the past few years. I remember when I first played EVE. It took hours to do the tutorial and it was a pain figuring everything out. The ultra small and inelegant UI is also a big problem for EVE. I bet it would be ten thousand times better if they redesigned the UI from the ground up.

Originally posted by Rohn

Mortal Online probably should have been #3 or #4 on the list.

 

Agreed. My graph for MO would look like this:

_____^___^_^^||||||||

The horizontal lines are when you enter the game and wander around, accomplishing absolutely nothing. The carats are for each time you read and re-read the help files, just to see if you're missing something about the "simple" process of harvesting from a tree, NONE of which are harvestable anywhere near you. That last is the brick wall you hit when you realize the few instructions provided don't actually make sense, and with arms thrown up in disgust, you mutter, "Stupid game is stupid" and uninstall.

Ryzom was also suggested; a good choice for a great and challenging game.

Eve definitely deserves the #1 spot, a game I couldn't stop playing even though I once, just once, thought I might shed tears of frustration because I simply could. not. get. whatever it was I should have already understood about whatever it was that I was doing at that moment. Wow, what a game!

Originally posted by tman5

Please stop describing the past wonderfulness that was SWG.  I get so sad.

this too :(

Why no one else has made a game with that same style class system is beyond me :(  *cries*

agreed

Anarchy Online is notably missing from that list.

Of all the MMOs I've played, AO definitely had one of the steepest learning curves, between nanos, implants, myriad stats, "trickle-down", and so on... by far the most involved and complex game system I've ever learned.

Just the ins-and-outs of understanding implant construction, figuring out QLs of the implanet, plus faded, bright and shining clusters and so forth... yeah... lots to wrap your head around with that aspect alone.

Definitely believe Anarchy Online should have been in there, maybe not in the #1 spot, but certainly #2 spot.

My opinion.

Originally posted by Ozmodan

I would throw in AC1 in there.  Except for Eve it is far more complex than any of the others and a much better game except for the graphics and the inability to control the bots.

Asherons Call was a great game, and while complex, it didn't have the learning wall(love that graph) that EVE has.  I very much enjoyed both games. But even with an updated graphics engine I'd not go back to AC1. I've had much more than my fill of lost gear and corpse runs.  As for SWG, lets not go there...

Holy Crap....can we please STFU about "PRE-NGE" already.

It's gone, it happened (many many years ago) so get freekin' over it.

Great article. I agree with the learning curve graph of EVE. Ive seen that pic before and it makes me chuckle every time because I know its true. However, once you get into it you don't feel it as much. Which could be getting over the "hump" of the curve, or in this case, a cliff.

Getting into a decent corp helps a lot, as well as many of the third party programs created by the fanbase. If anyone would be interested in trying out EVE and feel a little overwhelmed by the learning curve, I would do what I could to help. Just drop me a line.

o/

  shakes head..Eve isn't all that hard. It does require thought tho.

  Any and I mean ANY game that has a leaning curve that looks like an Exel spreadsheet to negin to play is a job. I play to relax.  I work if I am paid for it.

Originally posted by Dwarvish

  shakes head..Eve isn't all that hard. It does require thought tho.

 

  Any and I mean ANY game that has a leaning curve that looks like an Exel spreadsheet to negin to play is a job. I play to relax.  I work if I am paid for it.

 

+1

Only way I would play eve is if someone payed ME to play it. Hardest learning curve but not THAT hard. Just very dull.

Would like to say eve has made itself a lot easier since that graph came out. It's still a massive learning curve but I don't think it's at that vertical cliff anymore..... unless you listen to those ppl in starter corps who insist you max all learning skills first.

Also it doesn't really level out, it slows down a lot but you should be always learning new things in eve. There's years worth of different things you can try out (some that really need to be fixed) and more being added so it's pretty rare for someone to run out of things to do. Getting bored of those things is another matter.

Oh and yes there are plenty of spreadsheets, graphs and diagrams and we love it. though you can just shoot things if that doesn't interest you.

I was in the beta for EVE and the whole time was a waste. Just a bunch of people sitting around having no idea what the hell was going on. I know the game is a million times better than when it started but back then, when there weren't guides I never had one question answered. By the end of the beta I figured out how to mine, fly around and a little about combat. I used to be a hardcore player but I got a 50 hour a week job. No longer interested in wasting untold hours simply trying to learn a crafting system or trying to find an armor merchant. Same reasons I quit the FFXIV beta after a week and won't be subbing. I just don't feel like the expenditure of time is worth it any more. I figured out linkshells playing FFXI but honestly, that was one of many decisions across their two pc games where I think someone at Square said, "How can we do this so that 90% of the people that pick up our game never look back?"

I haven't played many on the OP's list except EVE of course and FFXI very briefly. I didn't find the learning curve of EVE that difficult outside of getting used to the UI. The UI wasn't that hard though to come to grips with. To me, the worst game to learn how to play was by far FFXI and only thanks to its UI. I hated it so much that that is what drove me away from the game.

EQ1 had a learning curve for me since it was my first MMO ever. I was used to text-based MUDs so the intuitive part was setting up macros, and using slash commands. It took me a couple weeks to get used to the GUI, but the rest of the game material was pretty easy to get into, other than figuring out what my spells did. Some of it I found out the hard way: by buying spells and seeing what they did once I cast them.

UO also had a bit of a learning curve more with respect to what was in the game than the UI itself. The UI to me was much more intuitive than EQ1's.

It's funny though: my first MMO experiences were based on the lack of my knowledge about fansites with information as to how to play certain aspects of each game. I learned mostly the hard way, like tradeskills in AO, macroing in SWG pre-NGE, speccing in DAoC, etc. I was such a newb back then :)

I have to say this, like other posters, AO should be on the list. You need alot of research and tips from other players to fully understand Anarchy Online. Even afters years you will always find out something new.

Originally posted by japo

Holy Crap....can we please STFU about "PRE-NGE" already.

It's gone, it happened (many many years ago) so get freekin' over it.

It happend four years ago, not 'many many'. You gotta be in the infamous "30 is old and 5 years ago was right after World War 2"-age =)

Id say l2s curve is quite extreme as well, for sure not the worst but not far from it.

Originally posted by japo

Holy Crap....can we please STFU about "PRE-NGE" already.

It's gone, it happened (many many years ago) so get freekin' over it.

 

I'm pretty sure that everyone's over "it", that doesnt mean that everyone can't still miss it.

I guess it all comes down to how every single mmo today is trying to copy wow, down to the shitty graphics and toy movements, when SWG had it right, but SOE executed it like a bunch of monkeehs

Were this a boredom curve list, then FFXI would deserve to be on it.

Having seen this graphic change over and over and over in its years of being handed down on the internet, I remember the days when Anarchy Online occupied the slot that EVE did, and when EVE arrived, it was bumped down to where POTBS is.

When choosing a race can result in your character being less successful... you know you're on Rubi-Ka.

There are non-subtle differences between a Nanomage Enforcer and an Atrox Enforcer. A player that understands the system knows how to overcome much of the differences, but one can easily gimp a character in AO, thanks to the improvement points system. What's green (cheap) to an Atrox can be deep blue (bloody expensive!) to a nanomage, and make all the difference in what and how much one can improve (talk about IP Starvation)!

WWIIOL:Battleground Europe should be on that list too.

I'm pretty sure that last learning curve chart was originally used for Dwarf Fortress...  lol

but still,  it would be just about right  :)

Eve is one of the last truley 'Massive' games where theres just so much crap to do,  you really don't know where to begin.

Originally posted by ZoeMcCloskey

Originally posted by tman5

Please stop describing the past wonderfulness that was SWG.  I get so sad.

this too :(

Why no one else has made a game with that same style class system is beyond me :(  *cries*

This is because it is SOE.The developer so many like to bash and have given up on.IMO SOE is the best chance we have of the next super game,He has kids ,and has played countless hours of games himself,he has a giant corp behind him [SOE]tons of resources and manpower.If we don't support SOE then they will turn their trends to other areas,like predominantly cash shops and certain demographics,example kids,browser based.

I do not think SOE creates much of a learning curve either,i actually find their games very easy to get into.

No question imo Sqaure Enix does make their games non user friendly,very little if any descriptions,everything is a secret it seems.I could only imagine how hard it was to play FFXI from day 1,if there was no interent user links to look up information,the game was EXTREMELY hard to understand fully.Geesh i was somewhere around level 17/18 in Buburimu Peninsula when a higher level player asked me about sub class,i was like huh?Offered to help me out,i was like sure,but i knew nothing of it's purpose or design.I had no clue at all what sub class i should take,again with no help from others,it was all a guess.

The list is HUGE,i could write a mini book on all the things that Square kept a secret in FFXi,without the internet and others to help you along the way it was about 99% a secret.Moon phases/elemental properties,direction faced it goes on and on.Chocobo quest?Huh?Jueno?where's that?Macros?what ya talking about Willis?