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News & Features Discussion  » General: Who's Next for F2P?

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196 posts found
  SnarlingWolf

Novice Member

Joined: 6/23/09
Posts: 2728

9/21/10 12:46:27 PM#41
Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Bill...comments like what you said about Brad McQuaids's vision make me wonder if you were really following that game through development.  Vanguard had a huge following. The frank and honest truth of the matter, one you may get in trouble for writing, is that when Microsoft dumped Sigil and Sigil went running to SOE, droves of players turned away from that game.

 

If someone else brought forth a polished game using Brad's Vision (he (Brad) is kinda damaged goods now) and managed to do so without climbing into bed with SOE you'd see a game with 500K+ subscribers. You can't dance around reputation and this community of gamers hasn't had turnaround such that there aren't those who remember how SOE treated past customers and current.

 

Vanguard would be one of the top grossing MMOs today if it had had another option other than SOE.

 Vanguard failed for one simple reason, its programming. It had nothing to do with what overlord company was involved.

 

That game was such a massive bug/crash fest when it launched that everyone quit and regretted buying the game. To act like SOE caused it is foolish. I had high hopes for Vanguard and I bought the game when it was released. Just hearing the word Vanguard pisses me off even to this day.

 

It had nothing to do with vision, what company owned who, etc. It had everything to do with poor implementation.

  severius

Elite Member

Joined: 8/10/04
Posts: 1527

9/21/10 12:47:36 PM#42

Lets see here

Age Of Conan - Possibly, Funcom appears to be trying really hard to keep it relevent but it may be a losing battle.  Especially with upcoming games, including their own, they may have to go f2p.  One thing, Funcom is not unfamiliar with the f2p model so they are probably well situated for the conversion.

Lineage 2 - Won't happen lol.  There are a crap ton of players for that game, just not in the western hemisphere.  They still haven't done so with Lineage 1 as far as I know and they have plenty of products coming soon, I am sure lol.

Star Trek Online - Surprised it has not already happened.  Would happily play it if there was some way I could skip, completely, all of their ground content as that is the most pathetic excuse for a game engine I have ever had the misfortune of playing.  Root Canals are more enjoyable than their groundgame.  Just sayin.

Champion's Online - This game tears me up.  I really want to enjoy it, had always enjoyed the pen and paper game way back in the early 80's.  I cannot understand why it is that I do not enjoy the game, maybe if they went f2p I could find out? :)  Would like to see this go f2p.... one of those where you can acheive everything you can buy :D

Vanguard - This p.o.s. is still running? lol!

WAR - Don't think they will do it, EA doesn't strike me as a company that would do it in any meaningful way.  As far as they are concerned, im sure, they already have with the tier 1 free for life trial.


  Khalathwyr

Tipster

Joined: 6/02/04
Posts: 3151

Google is your friend.

9/21/10 12:50:21 PM#43
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Bill...comments like what you said about Brad McQuaids's vision make me wonder if you were really following that game through development.  Vanguard had a huge following. The frank and honest truth of the matter, one you may get in trouble for writing, is that when Microsoft dumped Sigil and Sigil went running to SOE, droves of players turned away from that game.

 

If someone else brought forth a polished game using Brad's Vision (he (Brad) is kinda damaged goods now) and managed to do so without climbing into bed with SOE you'd see a game with 500K+ subscribers. You can't dance around reputation and this community of gamers hasn't had turnaround such that there aren't those who remember how SOE treated past customers and current.

 

Vanguard would be one of the top grossing MMOs today if it had had another option other than SOE.

 Vanguard failed for one simple reason, its programming. It had nothing to do with what overlord company was involved.

 

That game was such a massive bug/crash fest when it launched that everyone quit and regretted buying the game. To act like SOE caused it is foolish. I had high hopes for Vanguard and I bought the game when it was released. Just hearing the word Vanguard pisses me off even to this day.

 

It had nothing to do with vision, what company owned who, etc. It had everything to do with poor implementation.

To ignore the exodus of players from the forums and overall community once that relationship was announced is moronic. It indeed severely impacted the future of the game in a great way. That's not to say that the "non-polished" state of the game did not factor into it's success as well. But to toss aside that Company/Customer relationship as something trivial is short-sighted at best.

"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."

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  Deathwing980

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/08
Posts: 80

9/21/10 12:54:23 PM#44

WARHAMMER: Give me my Skaven and Undead and possibly the Reptilians and you will have me paying more than enough to keep the servers going...

 

I want my damn Small rat people running around with daggers of death and destruction!!! :D

  snoop101

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/07/07
Posts: 389

9/21/10 12:59:09 PM#45
Originally posted by OkhamsRazor
Originally posted by snoop101

Can we look at it also regarding the people that play F2P. Lets take LOTRO. I have the game and all the xpacs. The only reason I wont sub again is because I know I will be playing with people that just go F2P. IMO people who dont want to pay for a quality game are just there for the free ride and really could care less about the game and the people that play it. A good example would be being in an dungeon with a group of people. lets say everyone subs except for the one person. If that person needs to go somewhere in RL he is just going to drop out. Why, because he losses nothing, as the other people who enjoy the game and are willing to pay with dedicate their time to it.

to me its way to early to find out if LOTRO is a success. I would to see the same amout of F2P players make it to end game as P2P. Lotro is all about the adventure of leveling and it does take time. F2P players dont have time. Like another person replied to one of my posts that he/she plays more then one MMO. Which is fine, but unless you dont work/school you really cant be dedicated to more then one mmo on a serious level.

 This made me laugh people dropping out of groups has always happened in Lotro and I've been playing it for 3 years . It does'nt matter if its free to play or not .Also f2players wont have access to all instances . The way I look at it is i would rather have a lot more people playing in the lower levels so I get to do the instances I had a tough time finding groups for in the past . My betting is a lot of those try the game on a free to play basis will end up subbing anyway as they progress through the game .

Maybe your looking it in the wrong way and have the dogmatic view that nothing should ever change in the way an mmo funds itself even if theres a far more successful buisness model available . The subscription model has been overpriced for too long and people wanted an alternative . If your giving up on mmos because of these new buisness models you'll proberbly soon have to give up on the majority of mmos .

I know its slightly different but did you complain that say the likes of modern warfare or left for dead did nt charge a monthly sub ? I m betting you did nt so why should it be acceptable in online co op games and not mmos . Its just what you get used to at the end of the day .

See this is odd, because I never had issues finding groups at any levels. Most Kins were healthy and always doing something. Its sad to say but you seem kinda brain washed into thinking that F2P is somehow free. I was reading an article and I wish I bookmarked it, but anyhow they took a F2P game and figured out the cost of it compared to a P2P game and the F2P one was actually more expensive. I would rather pay the $14 a month and know that I can enjoy everything in the game without questioning if I have to purchase it at the time. I know that when I sit down that I have paid for the content and support and will not have to worry about what I have and what others have.

  snoop101

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/07/07
Posts: 389

9/21/10 1:01:37 PM#46
Originally posted by severius

Lets see here


Vanguard - This p.o.s. is still running? lol!

You obviously have no idea about MMO's. Vanguard is probably one of the better games out there right now. It does however cater to more of the hard core/old school mmo'ers.

  Athcear

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/19/09
Posts: 422

Never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by malice.

9/21/10 1:07:29 PM#47

I could see trying STO if it were F2P.  Much as I rage against the F2P movement, taking a subscription quality AAA game and changing its pricing to include a F2P model is very different from making a F2P game.  Good games are good games, no matter how you pay for them, as long as the game stands on its own merits and does not hinge of the item shop.

Important facts:
1. Free to Play games are poorly made.
2. Casuals are not all idiots, but idiots call themselves casuals.
3. Great solo and group content are not mutually exclusive, but they suffer when one is shoved into the mold of the other. The same is true of PvP and PvE.
4. Community is more important than you think.

  grapevine

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/04
Posts: 1938

9/21/10 1:11:12 PM#48
Originally posted by DerWotan


While I appreciate your work OP there are some major flaws in it.

 

Vanguard you said its vision didn't go well with players. Well the problem wasn't the Vision it as the change in ownership and the forced release that killed the game. The game had a huge (judging by realistic numbers) fan base mostly from oldschool gamers till they decided to partnership with soe again, a company known for destroying our Everquest. People aren't trusting Soe anymore so even a F2P modell wouldn't help. I LOVE the game and its vision but I hate Soe with passion so for me there is no way back. I just don't want to have anything to do with this company again.

 

Warhammer Online as you mentioned a game with a high RvR focus can't go Pay2Win. Lets say they offer only cosmetic items since their designers have done a poorly job making different items they would need to redsign the itemization from the ground up so it don't think thats an option.

 

Star Trek Online and Champions Online  they are already Pay2Win games. Cryptic is charging a monthly fee and on top of that having a real itemshop. Only difference would be they could go way over the top with their Cstore by going Pay2Win but on the same side losing the rest of their customers. 

 

Age of Conan its the most realistic from all listed games though I don't think Funcom will do it.

 

Personal Stance: Pay2Win is not an option for me there is a reason why I'm only playing p2p games. On the other hand pay2win can only work if its built from the get go just switching to pay2win can backfire big time eg. Everquest 2 Extended.

 

 

I'd love to know where these play2win elements of the c-store for STO and CO are, as they are mostly cosmetics other than account features.  There is a false perspective that there's more powerful ships in the STO c-store, but they are actually inferior to existing ones, and all but one are available through in game means.  They appeal because of their skins being that of iconic ships, not because they are stronger.
 

In the case of CO items in the c-store are ALL simply costume pieces.  The section of the report is also completely inaccurate, when it comes to the c-store STO and CO being interchangeable.  STO uses it to the extreme, CO hardly at all.  Cryptic have added many more (CO) costume pieces for free, than appear in the c-store.  Something that can't be said about STO.

 

The community attitude to the c-store is also generally different, with STO players being more willing to spend additional cash, while CO players tend to be less interested.  As a result STO has a much higher chance of going F2P.  The outcome of applying such a model to CO would be likely to see a drop in revenue.

  Reizla

Elite Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 3032

MMORPGs are no longer about the mass multi-user anymore *sadly*

9/21/10 1:14:03 PM#49
Originally posted by maduin75

You can still read the article from the main page, in the "Columnists" section.

 

Games are :

Age of Conan

Lineage 2

Star Trek Online

Champion Online

Warhammer

Ohh... I was close... ;-)

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  pekshmaer

Novice Member

Joined: 12/12/08
Posts: 61

hmmm

9/21/10 1:25:25 PM#50

lol ..from war forum devs told thay never go f2p. Others games is going f2p for sure! 

hmm

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12113

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

9/21/10 1:26:10 PM#51
Originally posted by Khalathwyr
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Bill...comments like what you said about Brad McQuaids's vision make me wonder if you were really following that game through development.  Vanguard had a huge following. The frank and honest truth of the matter, one you may get in trouble for writing, is that when Microsoft dumped Sigil and Sigil went running to SOE, droves of players turned away from that game.

 

If someone else brought forth a polished game using Brad's Vision (he (Brad) is kinda damaged goods now) and managed to do so without climbing into bed with SOE you'd see a game with 500K+ subscribers. You can't dance around reputation and this community of gamers hasn't had turnaround such that there aren't those who remember how SOE treated past customers and current.

 

Vanguard would be one of the top grossing MMOs today if it had had another option other than SOE.

 Vanguard failed for one simple reason, its programming. It had nothing to do with what overlord company was involved.

 

That game was such a massive bug/crash fest when it launched that everyone quit and regretted buying the game. To act like SOE caused it is foolish. I had high hopes for Vanguard and I bought the game when it was released. Just hearing the word Vanguard pisses me off even to this day.

 

It had nothing to do with vision, what company owned who, etc. It had everything to do with poor implementation.

To ignore the exodus of players from the forums and overall community once that relationship was announced is moronic. It indeed severely impacted the future of the game in a great way. That's not to say that the "non-polished" state of the game did not factor into it's success as well. But to toss aside that Company/Customer relationship as something trivial is short-sighted at best.

In May of 2006, SOE became the publisher. What was this 'exodus'between then and the January 2007 release? The buggy beta drove many off and there were still 240,000 boxes sold. Within a couple of months, the 130,000 subscriptions dropped to less than 40,000 subscriptions.

By May 2007, SOE bought it and tried salvaging what was left.

 

I'd say stuff like this impacted the future of the game far more than anything else.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fovoroth

  User Deleted
9/21/10 1:31:14 PM#52

I think I would play each game on this list and probably pay money on all of them if they took the Turbine F2P model (presuming I was enjoying the game)

 

If I am a typical target customer, then you can see how going F2P would bring in more players and more money. Millions of people. just like me, laying out cash on multiple games concurrently. Were as, we will not do that on a subscription based game.

  karnisov

Novice Member

Joined: 8/11/10
Posts: 31

9/21/10 2:48:41 PM#53
Originally posted by DeadAlliance


I would have said "Star Wars Galaxies"

Besides ticking off their entire player base with the NGE. It should be F2P, even then they might not get numbers.

 

hrmm. not sure i like SOE's freemium system. if it was more of a turbine f2p model i might play it  again.

http://hardballgaming.blogspot.com/

  wgc01

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/05/08
Posts: 191

9/21/10 3:34:49 PM#54

turbine's Ashron's call been going since 1999, SWG will most likely  go f2p or close down after TOR, maybe a revamp of the sony station pass.. AOC, might look that way,, some of these companies are making good money with thier products, just may not look like it to us.. I wish they would change the name of Free to Play to Free to Try, allot of people think that the are going to gt a AAA mmo for free from start to finishe and all that goes with it, this is not the case, most f2p games seem to be nothing more than an over blown demo, but the fact is they do bring in new subs and money, thats what they are there to do make profit, they don't make these games because they love us, :(

  ZoeMcCloskey

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/14/05
Posts: 1123

INTJ, fun is fun except when it's not

9/21/10 3:36:10 PM#55

Would most love to see CoH/CoV go free to play.

But from that list alone Vanguard would be the one I'd play some again if it were free.

For Warhammer it is probably not going to save it, but War definitely needs to do something because it is definitely a dying game.

  eyeswideopen

Tipster

Joined: 5/24/09
Posts: 2503

9/21/10 3:58:24 PM#56
Originally posted by Elidien

I agree that all games are headed F2P at some point and to some extent. I hope that, if they do, they will learn something from LOTRO's way of doing things.

To me, a F2P option is a great way to go and not make the game completely F2P with just a cash shop.

I love the fact I can sub to LOTRO at anytime and leave the shop behind. At the same time, I love the fact, if I can't, I can buy the zones as needed. That is an awesome option for a very casual player with a newborn child!

To me the F2P option is nice if its an option and full sub rights remain and also if the items in the cash shop do not allow the buyer to get better or easier to obtain gear. That is where I draw the line. Again its all about options and consumers prefer that today.

No, if they're gonna go F2P, I'd prefer they look at Anarchy Online rather than DDO or LotRO. Anarchy Online has the perfect "hybrid" setup.

-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-

  ScribbleLay1

Novice Member

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 181

9/21/10 4:36:59 PM#57

That would be the best thing that could happen to STO, that way it can die,

  Tazlor

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Joined: 2/24/10
Posts: 882

9/21/10 4:48:54 PM#58

i don't think WAR would make a good F2P because it's PvP oriented.  how could they keep it from becoming a pay to win?

  Skuz

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Joined: 12/25/08
Posts: 1038

"If you can''t laugh at yourself there''s always someone around to show you how it''s done!"

9/21/10 4:56:17 PM#59
Originally posted by snoop101


I dont understand this F2P fetish that a lot of people have now a days. $10-$14 a month is really not that big of an issue. I heard of F2P games that cost way more then that in the long run. F2P really isnt F2P.

Dont get me wrong I play Atlantica Online which is F2P, but not because its F2P. I play it because its a great game. I would easily pay $14 a month to play it.

Before DDO went F2P no one really talked about it. Now everyone is on the band wagon.

 

You don't understand the desire to be able to much more easily play a wider range of games?

By playing in the microtransaction/hybrid payment games you open up the choice available to you on a daily basis, for many players sticking to one game rapidly leads to boredom, the ability to play multuiple titles casually is for many players tyhe preferable option, sure you can argue that you could just swap games that you sub to each month but that's not the degree of flexibility that I am talking about here, I mean being able to play what suited your mood on a daily basis much better.

My feeling is WAR will resist going F2P because of the real difficulties is making the transition, I think this one would shut down rather than go F2P, in spite of EA seemingly embracing the MT model with other titles.

Vanguard wont go F2P anytime soon as the interest in it from SoE is virtually non-existant & it might prove to take away from EverQuest & EverQuest II more than they would like & then they'd have a larger audience in a game they didn't develop clamouring for development & investment this might then look bad from a PR angle if their in-house titles performed worse and possibly hamper EQNext ambitions.

Lineage II might go F2P, not that I'd even give it a second look after trying that bot-filled POS grinder.

AoC seems to be doing fine for now & Funcom appear happy as they are, though they have gone on the record to say they are investigating the idea they have no plans yet.

STO & CO, I can see these 2 easily moving to F2P since they are almost there already.

CoX- I'd personally love to see this title try F2P as I was a fan of the game but got bored too quick to justify a sub, would be a title that I would "dip" into frequently though never stay long in it.

  Damarl

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/06
Posts: 30

9/21/10 5:15:49 PM#60
Originally posted by Mahlo

Originally posted by snoop101

I dont understand this F2P fetish that a lot of people have now a days. $10-$14 a month is really not that big of an issue. I heard of F2P games that cost way more then that in the long run. F2P really isnt F2P

$14 is a big issue if you don't just want one MMO to choose from. But f2p means you can dip in and out of games when you like. That appeals to me.

edit: oh and my money is on vanguard next

 

Whats the point in playing a MMO one month and another the next ? Since i've been playing MMOs, my goal was to get to the endgame and kill players (some prefer mobs). Why playing the game one day, then switch back to another the next day/weeks/month ? 

And... if its because you're playing 2+ MMO, i got the same question, why ? Ok maybe because you like playing a very good old MMo while you enjoy playing with friends on a new one, i can understand...well... i think. 

I dont wanna see every new MMO to be F2P, i dont want to see WAR going F2P as i might come back if one day they fix the damn game. Just started playing Fallen Earth and i dont want it to be F2P. F2P games bring lots of shit, a community of kids/adults that just cant undertsand that its a damn game and at the same time, they dont give a fuck about others. 

Get a job.... pay for what the others work for. If i want to build a garage next to my house, i gotta pay for it, so i gotta work to pay.  You cant pay ? Then dont play ! There's a bunch of trials ! And im sure if you look on the net, you'll find some good solo game that are as good as the old one were before the whole MMO world did KABOUM !

or.... get a job ....

Wish i could get free beer when im going to the bar lol

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