I've been playing Face of Mankind recently and made this FDC recruitment vid, thought I'd show it for those that have never heard of FoM. The game is free to download and free to play, one single server, open PvP, real player run factions, no levels, penalty points for being a naughty boy, player prison for naughty boys arrested by the police (the police are also a player run faction and run the prisons), drugs, prison breaks, player housing, smuggling and the list goes on.

Here's the vid anyway, CLICK. It's footage shot from yesterdays reprisals against Brootherhood of the Shadows (drug dealers/smugglers/makers). The Brootherhood ambushed and killed a 3 man Freedom Defense Corps (the army faction) patrol in New York City. We gathered up and declared war on the Brootherhood then engaged in several fast strikes first in their home turf of Tokyo, catching them unawares killing many then vorting out quickly. We then cleaned up New York doing large fast moving patrols and cleaning the streets.

BoS rules you, and your stinky LED homeboys.

Originally posted by GTwander

BoS rules you, and your stinky LED homeboys.

 BoS are a very tough faction and that vid shows us doing suprise attacks and basically bumrushing them unawares. In straight fights with equal numbers BoS are very tough mainly due to the fact they all are shit faced on high quality coca and us FDC recruits are too poor to afford your drugs :(

FDC is maybe the only faction worth being called a faction in my opinion. They will help you even if you are a newbie, they will assist you in fights, they move as a team, die as a team or win as a team. All other factions suffer from too many rogues/gankers, ineffective leaderships, FC farmers and generally lack coordination and team playing. I highly recommend FDC.
 

That vids made me want to get back in the action, thank Agricola, but being GOM we only attack when we are provoked, though that is usually quite often . For people crying out for something different in the MMO world this is a game you should try, its as far away from the EQ/WOW model as you can get and you really feel part of a living breathing world trying to bash the shit out of each other, its the only open PVP game I can swallow as its very much skill based not uber gear based, though expect to get ganked its part of the initiation process 

Cal.

Originally posted by Calerxes

That vids made me want to get back in the action, thank Agricola, but being GOM we only attack when we are provoked, though that is usually quite often . For people crying out for something different in the MMO world this is a game you should try, its as far away from the EQ/WOW model as you can get and you really feel part of a living breathing world trying to bash the shit out of each other, its the only open PVP game I can swallow as its very much skill based not uber gear based, though expect to get ganked its part of the initiation process 

 

 

Cal.

 We recently had a war with GoM, your guys were helping BoS break into DMC for a prison break or just some plain slaughter. FDC were assisting LED in holding the prison and GoM assisted BoS, to cut a long story short GoM ignored us and we ended up declaring martial law on Aurelia.

FoM is the closest thing you'll ever get to SWG pre-CU and in many ways it's alot better.

Originally posted by Calerxes

...its the only open PVP game I can swallow as its very much skill based not uber gear based, though expect to get ganked its part of the initiation process  

Cal.

Looked more zerg-based than skill-based.

Skill-based PVP is LoL, TF2, Starcraft 2, etc.

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by Calerxes

...its the only open PVP game I can swallow as its very much skill based not uber gear based, though expect to get ganked its part of the initiation process  

Cal.

Looked more zerg-based than skill-based.

Skill-based PVP is LoL, TF2, Starcraft 2, etc.

TF2 is a fps

SC2 is a rts

and League of Legends, is that considered a mmo?

Hi, welcome to the mmo forums. DAOC, WAR, WoW, GuildWars2, EvE all PvP mmos.

-In before derp derp those arent Skill Based...

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by Calerxes

...its the only open PVP game I can swallow as its very much skill based not uber gear based, though expect to get ganked its part of the initiation process  

Cal.

Looked more zerg-based than skill-based.

Skill-based PVP is LoL, TF2, Starcraft 2, etc.

I disagree with this, as when we (GOM) were at war with the Mercs we were able to defend ourselves against their zergs and surprise attacks by being organised and setting ourselves up at strategic points on Aurelia that made it hard for any number of Mercs to take us out completely. Now that to me takes skill on the part of the individual and collective, they inturn tried to pull us away from our points by launching smaller group attacks. If a game has tactics and strategies that can overcome the odds I call that skill based.

Cal.

Originally posted by Calerxes

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by Calerxes

...its the only open PVP game I can swallow as its very much skill based not uber gear based, though expect to get ganked its part of the initiation process  

Cal.

Looked more zerg-based than skill-based.

Skill-based PVP is LoL, TF2, Starcraft 2, etc.

I disagree with this, as when we (GOM) were at war with the Mercs we were able to defend ourselves against their zergs and surprise attacks by being organised and setting ourselves up at strategic points on Aurelia that made it hard for any number of Mercs to take us out completely. Now that to me takes skill on the part of the individual and collective, they inturn tried to pull us away from our points by launching smaller group attacks. If a game has tactics and strategies that can overcome the odds I call that skill based.

Well you can't really say that though.  In virtually every MMORPG skill has a non-zero importance, but presumably you wouldn't call the zergiest of MMORPGs skill-based.

It's about the relative importance of each factor of winning (such as Population, Skill, Progression) and how large an impact they have on battle.  "Skill-based" is a term I'd only apply to games which minimize or eliminate non-skill factors.  So something like Planetside is skill-based because population limits keep fights even, progression is lateral (and therefore a non-issue in the majority of fights), leaving skill as the only real factor for winning.

Just because an expert squad might be able to handle 2:1 odds doesn't change the fact that a game which allows 2:1 odds is inherently much more zerg-based than skill-based.  In such games it's not the elite 10-man group who dominates the server, but the organized 200-person guild.  And I'm not here to criticize whether people find it fun to mob their enemies, I'm just here to dispute the idea that any such game could be called "skill-based".

DFO, EVE, (and possibly FoM by the looks of it) even have some of the more skill-rewarding combat systems out there, but it's totally overshadowed by the importance of Population and/or Progression, and therefore sort of a waste.

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by Calerxes

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by Calerxes

...its the only open PVP game I can swallow as its very much skill based not uber gear based, though expect to get ganked its part of the initiation process  

Cal.

Looked more zerg-based than skill-based.

Skill-based PVP is LoL, TF2, Starcraft 2, etc.

I disagree with this, as when we (GOM) were at war with the Mercs we were able to defend ourselves against their zergs and surprise attacks by being organised and setting ourselves up at strategic points on Aurelia that made it hard for any number of Mercs to take us out completely. Now that to me takes skill on the part of the individual and collective, they inturn tried to pull us away from our points by launching smaller group attacks. If a game has tactics and strategies that can overcome the odds I call that skill based.

Well you can't really say that though.  In virtually every MMORPG skill has a non-zero importance, but presumably you wouldn't call the zergiest of MMORPGs skill-based.

It's about the relative importance of each factor of winning (such as Population, Skill, Progression) and how large an impact they have on battle.  "Skill-based" is a term I'd only apply to games which minimize or eliminate non-skill factors.  So something like Planetside is skill-based because population limits keep fights even, progression is lateral (and therefore a non-issue in the majority of fights), leaving skill as the only real factor for winning.

Just because an expert squad might be able to handle 2:1 odds doesn't change the fact that a game which allows 2:1 odds is inherently much more zerg-based than skill-based.  In such games it's not the elite 10-man group who dominates the server, but the organized 200-person guild.  And I'm not here to criticize whether people find it fun to mob their enemies, I'm just here to dispute the idea that any such game could be called "skill-based".

DFO, EVE, (and possibly FoM by the looks of it) even have some of the more skill-rewarding combat systems out there, but it's totally overshadowed by the importance of Population and/or Progression, and therefore sort of a waste.

The only thing that was missing was a  IMO.

Originally posted by Ackbar
I remember being an LED a while back like 6 years ago when this game was first hitting the scene. How is it being supported now? Is there an item shop?

There is a subbed option that gives a lot more inventory space, personal housing, civvy clothes and allows you to get past rank 1 in your faction.

Oh yeah.

"DIE, LED SCUM"

Originally posted by endersshadow

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by Calerxes

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by Calerxes

...its the only open PVP game I can swallow as its very much skill based not uber gear based, though expect to get ganked its part of the initiation process  

Cal.

Looked more zerg-based than skill-based.

Skill-based PVP is LoL, TF2, Starcraft 2, etc.

I disagree with this, as when we (GOM) were at war with the Mercs we were able to defend ourselves against their zergs and surprise attacks by being organised and setting ourselves up at strategic points on Aurelia that made it hard for any number of Mercs to take us out completely. Now that to me takes skill on the part of the individual and collective, they inturn tried to pull us away from our points by launching smaller group attacks. If a game has tactics and strategies that can overcome the odds I call that skill based.

Well you can't really say that though.  In virtually every MMORPG skill has a non-zero importance, but presumably you wouldn't call the zergiest of MMORPGs skill-based.

It's about the relative importance of each factor of winning (such as Population, Skill, Progression) and how large an impact they have on battle.  "Skill-based" is a term I'd only apply to games which minimize or eliminate non-skill factors.  So something like Planetside is skill-based because population limits keep fights even, progression is lateral (and therefore a non-issue in the majority of fights), leaving skill as the only real factor for winning.

Just because an expert squad might be able to handle 2:1 odds doesn't change the fact that a game which allows 2:1 odds is inherently much more zerg-based than skill-based.  In such games it's not the elite 10-man group who dominates the server, but the organized 200-person guild.  And I'm not here to criticize whether people find it fun to mob their enemies, I'm just here to dispute the idea that any such game could be called "skill-based".

DFO, EVE, (and possibly FoM by the looks of it) even have some of the more skill-rewarding combat systems out there, but it's totally overshadowed by the importance of Population and/or Progression, and therefore sort of a waste.

The only thing that was missing was a  IMO.

Adding "IMO" doesn't excuse the fact that if someone calls every MMORPG a skill-based game I'm still gonna pat them on the head and tell them they make no sense.

By his definition, every MMORPG is a skill-based game.  Hence my post :P

Originally posted by Axehilt

By his definition, every MMORPG is a skill-based game.  Hence my post :P

They are.

Even checkers can devolve into a zerg, where is the skill at that point?

Originally posted by GTwander

Originally posted by Axehilt

By his definition, every MMORPG is a skill-based game.  Hence my post :P

They are.

Even checkers can devolve into a zerg, where is the skill at that point?

What I'm saying is that when skill is a minor element, diluted by many other game elements, calling such a game "skill-based" makes no sense.

Checkers involves two players with a fixed number of pieces.  In no way is that "zerging" in the MMORPG sense.  Population is balanced: the two players are competing with equal capabilities at the match's onset, in their own private instance (the board.)

A Green player coming in from off-board to stomp Red and Black with 200 Green pieces would be zerging.  Nobody would play Checkers if it was like that.

In Checkers there aren't population or progression elements to dilute the importance of skill.  It may be a bit shallow as games go, but it's purely decided by skill.

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by endersshadow

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by Calerxes

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by Calerxes

...its the only open PVP game I can swallow as its very much skill based not uber gear based, though expect to get ganked its part of the initiation process  

Cal.

Looked more zerg-based than skill-based.

Skill-based PVP is LoL, TF2, Starcraft 2, etc.

I disagree with this, as when we (GOM) were at war with the Mercs we were able to defend ourselves against their zergs and surprise attacks by being organised and setting ourselves up at strategic points on Aurelia that made it hard for any number of Mercs to take us out completely. Now that to me takes skill on the part of the individual and collective, they inturn tried to pull us away from our points by launching smaller group attacks. If a game has tactics and strategies that can overcome the odds I call that skill based.

Well you can't really say that though.  In virtually every MMORPG skill has a non-zero importance, but presumably you wouldn't call the zergiest of MMORPGs skill-based.

It's about the relative importance of each factor of winning (such as Population, Skill, Progression) and how large an impact they have on battle.  "Skill-based" is a term I'd only apply to games which minimize or eliminate non-skill factors.  So something like Planetside is skill-based because population limits keep fights even, progression is lateral (and therefore a non-issue in the majority of fights), leaving skill as the only real factor for winning.

Just because an expert squad might be able to handle 2:1 odds doesn't change the fact that a game which allows 2:1 odds is inherently much more zerg-based than skill-based.  In such games it's not the elite 10-man group who dominates the server, but the organized 200-person guild.  And I'm not here to criticize whether people find it fun to mob their enemies, I'm just here to dispute the idea that any such game could be called "skill-based".

DFO, EVE, (and possibly FoM by the looks of it) even have some of the more skill-rewarding combat systems out there, but it's totally overshadowed by the importance of Population and/or Progression, and therefore sort of a waste.

The only thing that was missing was a  IMO.

Adding "IMO" doesn't excuse the fact that if someone calls every MMORPG a skill-based game I'm still gonna pat them on the head and tell them they make no sense.

By his definition, every MMORPG is a skill-based game.  Hence my post :P

Yeah, I am not trying to be a jerk but its still an opinion. Everyone will argue what takes skill and what doesnt. 

*cough* nc2 was unmeasureably better *cough*

But something that worked well in FoM was the Faction interaction and what I call RP-pvp, which you see here in the OP's vid.

Originally posted by mmoguy43

*cough* nc2 was unmeasureably better *cough*

 

But something that worked well in FoM was the Faction interaction and what I call RP-pvp, which you see here in the OP's vid.

 FoM is one of the few games since SWG where I feel it's possible to RP without being stared back at by a bunch of confused WoW kiddies who suddenly get a feeling of insecurity and go into their usual knee jerk reaction mode of verbal abuse.

As for the "real skill" argument that happens on a regular basis, well FoM combat is twitch which is why it's described as an MMOFPS. Most MMo's are button mashers with auto target and auto attack, which means you hit tab until you have the target then mash a practiced sequence of keys (usualy no more than 3 keys) until you either win or lose. Most of the crowd that play button mashers (99% of the MMORPG gamers) consider a player good at this to be skillfull, the crowd that play twich based combat disagree and consider button mashers to be not skill based as even a trained chimpanzee could PWN in such a scenario.

Which is not to say a button masher isn't fun, SWG pre-cu was awesome and it was a button masher with its own in built macro programme. Sure the actual combat didn't take any skill, it was more about better gear or more skill points that decided the fight more than anything else. When you could auto target and auto chase your opponent whilst the macro fired off attacks personal skill of the gamer doesn't come into it. It was still alot of fun and great to hunt down and kill Jedi, but skill? No.

Twitch based is all manual, also FoM has friendly fire so if you hit your own guy he gets hurt so there is no "spray and pray" as it'll get your buddies killed. You have to manualy aim and dodge, there is no standing on one spot letting a dice roll decide if or how hard the enemy hit. There are no levels so everyone is the same from day 1, the only thing outside of your twitch ability is armour, weapons, boosters, injectors, food, med kits and the guys backing you up. All the gear in the game is available from day 1, the only thing stopping you from getting it is your bank account and ignorance. There are no epic items or any "Gandalf's AK 47's of doom", all items are player made and if you buy a high quality rifle then it's the same as every one of the same make out there.

But that's just my opinion.

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by endersshadow

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by Calerxes

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by Calerxes

...its the only open PVP game I can swallow as its very much skill based not uber gear based, though expect to get ganked its part of the initiation process  

Cal.

Looked more zerg-based than skill-based.

Skill-based PVP is LoL, TF2, Starcraft 2, etc.

I disagree with this, as when we (GOM) were at war with the Mercs we were able to defend ourselves against their zergs and surprise attacks by being organised and setting ourselves up at strategic points on Aurelia that made it hard for any number of Mercs to take us out completely. Now that to me takes skill on the part of the individual and collective, they inturn tried to pull us away from our points by launching smaller group attacks. If a game has tactics and strategies that can overcome the odds I call that skill based.

Well you can't really say that though.  In virtually every MMORPG skill has a non-zero importance, but presumably you wouldn't call the zergiest of MMORPGs skill-based.

It's about the relative importance of each factor of winning (such as Population, Skill, Progression) and how large an impact they have on battle.  "Skill-based" is a term I'd only apply to games which minimize or eliminate non-skill factors.  So something like Planetside is skill-based because population limits keep fights even, progression is lateral (and therefore a non-issue in the majority of fights), leaving skill as the only real factor for winning.

Just because an expert squad might be able to handle 2:1 odds doesn't change the fact that a game which allows 2:1 odds is inherently much more zerg-based than skill-based.  In such games it's not the elite 10-man group who dominates the server, but the organized 200-person guild.  And I'm not here to criticize whether people find it fun to mob their enemies, I'm just here to dispute the idea that any such game could be called "skill-based".

DFO, EVE, (and possibly FoM by the looks of it) even have some of the more skill-rewarding combat systems out there, but it's totally overshadowed by the importance of Population and/or Progression, and therefore sort of a waste.

The only thing that was missing was a  IMO.

Adding "IMO" doesn't excuse the fact that if someone calls every MMORPG a skill-based game I'm still gonna pat them on the head and tell them they make no sense.

By his definition, every MMORPG is a skill-based game.  Hence my post :P

Axehilt I get the feeling you don't understand the world of FOM, as what Agricola says there is no progression (other than just getting better at fighting, increasing your skill as a fighter, and survival) in FOM, you have no levels just ranks which do nothing to any stats. You are dropped into the game and need to arm yourself and get some gear straight away, the combat is pure twitch based, but if you wear heavy armour and carry a big gun your movement is gimped, you move really slow as opposed to wearing light armour and carrying a pistol but of course the former deals more damage/take more damage than that the latter. The game is based around teamwork, tactics and strategies not gearscore and levels so I say again that to me is a skill based game. You should give it a try its F2P with an optional sub if you like it.

Cal.