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News & Features Discussion  » Star Wars: The Old Republic: PAX Prime 2010 Wrap-Up

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  SBFord

MMORPG.COM Staff

Joined: 6/28/10
Posts: 12821

 
OP  9/08/10 12:04:50 PM#1

In his latest Star Wars: The Old Republic article, MMORPG.com Community Manager Michael Bitton has taken all of the information from last week's PAX and synthesized it into a readable one-stop-source for all thing SWTOR. Find out what exactly was revealed at PAX and what Mike thinks. Be sure to swing by the forums to add your thoughts to the mix as well!

Well, PAX Prime has come and gone, and with only a few shows left, the season begins to wind down for the year. Did we learn anything new about Star Wars: The Old Republic at PAX compared to say, GamesCom? Why, yes, I believe we did!

Read more SWTOR: PAX Prime 2010 Wrap Up.

Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
Follow me on Twitter: @MMORPGMom

  chriswsm

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/07/04
Posts: 388

Never make anything idiot proof as someone will make a better idiot.

9/08/10 1:19:38 PM#2

I have to admit I am really looking forward to this.   Preorder already made (from the first day it became available for pre order) and I have a few games in the pipeline to tide me over until it is released.

I used to visit this site a lot however in recent years it has become the home of negative forum posts, illogical opinions and tantrums so I visit less often.

Played or Beta'd: UO / DAOC / Horizons / EQ2 / DDO / EVE / Archlord / PirateKingsOnline / Tabula Rasa / LOTRO / AOC / Champions / Darkfall / Mortal Online / DCUO / Rift / STO / SWTOR / TSW

  Fdzzaigl

Elite Member

Joined: 8/22/09
Posts: 1998

9/08/10 1:21:13 PM#3

The lightsaber scene was really impressive and shows how they will really try to get you closely involved with your character imo.

As for black & silver ones, well, only silver was available in Kotor 2, as Erickson has already put his veto against all the crazy variations on sabers (nunchuk sabers, saberaxes, saberpikes), I hope not to see black lightsabers.

As for the neverending space debate, he took a jab at the 'sandbox space game' supporters with those comments, I thought it was pretty funny myself, some people take it a bit seriously.

Although there are of course alternatives to the space game as it is now, which can provide the same cinematic experience, like a Rogue Squadron sort of game; he didn't dismiss the alternatives specifically, just the flying around and the mining.

 

I myself would have preferred a little bit more freedom, but if it plays out like the vehicle section for the latest ME2 DLC, which has a similar concept, it'll be pretty epic imo.

  artemisentr4

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/25/08
Posts: 1437

9/08/10 2:06:48 PM#4

I am quite happy with what I have seen from this game so far. It looks to be the level of story I have been craving in a MMO. It will change the way I approach the MMO and questing. Instead of click accept or click 1 click 1 click 1 then follow the map to kill x and return. Then repeat hundreds of times to level cap. I will have a reason and a choice to what I do in a quest. Regardless of the actuall combat that occures becuse of the quest.

 

And I love that 3D map that you linked. It really gives you a good idea of the size of the starting planet. Not including dungeons, interiors and instances. How 90% of the world does look to be open world as was said by a dev.

 

Now I know we still need a lot of info about the MMO side of the game. Crafting, PvP, AH's, social areas, raids, the "new" end game they are going to have and so on. But with just the level of RPG story that will be in this game will be worth the cost of the box IMO. And with 1600 hours of unique class story, a sub of $15 will be worth it. But the years of sub is still up for debate. We will see as spring of 2011 gets closer and closer.

“How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?”
R.A.Salvatore

  Unlight

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 2586

9/08/10 2:52:16 PM#5

"More on the topic of moral choices, Daniel discussed the difficulty of going against the grain as a Sith or Jedi character. In one example, (spoilers ahead!), Daniel described one of the early missions involving the Sith Warrior who is collecting crystal shards in a tomb. The Warrior is assaulted by another Sith hopeful and his cronies, who is attempting to steal the crystals from you because he could not gather them himself. The player can choose to give the failed Sith his crystals at this point, which is obviously a Light Side choice, but that resets the quest for the player, forcing him to redo the entire tomb. It ain’t easy being good when you’re supposed to be bad. C’est la vie!"

 

Does anyone know if this is just an incomplete quest, or is it indicative of the types of roleplayering decisions you're presented?  Because I'm reading this example as...

Choose Option "A"

or

Choose Option "B" -> Restart Quest -> Choose Option "A"

...which doesn't strike me as much of a choice.  Are you simply relegated to repeating quests when you choose the wrong path, or will there be some other sort of method used?

  ropenice

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 584

9/08/10 3:07:18 PM#6
Originally posted by Unlight

"More on the topic of moral choices, Daniel discussed the difficulty of going against the grain as a Sith or Jedi character. In one example, (spoilers ahead!), Daniel described one of the early missions involving the Sith Warrior who is collecting crystal shards in a tomb. The Warrior is assaulted by another Sith hopeful and his cronies, who is attempting to steal the crystals from you because he could not gather them himself. The player can choose to give the failed Sith his crystals at this point, which is obviously a Light Side choice, but that resets the quest for the player, forcing him to redo the entire tomb. It ain’t easy being good when you’re supposed to be bad. C’est la vie!"

 

Does anyone know if this is just an incomplete quest, or is it indicative of the types of roleplayering decisions you're presented?  Because I'm reading this example as...

Choose Option "A"

or

Choose Option "B" -> Restart Quest -> Choose Option "A"

...which doesn't strike me as much of a choice.  Are you simply relegated to repeating quests when you choose the wrong path, or will there be some other sort of method used?

Bioware is pretty experienced at these kinds of story choices. I would imagine the second time around it would just end without the ambush. You get the crystals and take them back to NPC or wherever.

  ropenice

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 584

9/08/10 3:15:19 PM#7

I have been lukewarm in my excitement/expectations for game, as there was little info given and most games lately have been very disappointing. But reading this article and looking at some of the linked maps, and well...it moved. Nuff said.

  Caskio

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/14/07
Posts: 341

MMOs are entertainment, not lifestyles.

9/08/10 3:28:24 PM#8
Originally posted by artemisentr4


I am quite happy with what I have seen from this game so far. It looks to be the level of story I have been craving in a MMO. It will change the way I approach the MMO and questing. Instead of click accept or click 1 click 1 click 1 then follow the map to kill x and return. Then repeat hundreds of times to level cap. I will have a reason and a choice to what I do in a quest. Regardless of the actuall combat that occures becuse of the quest.

 

And I love that 3D map that you linked. It really gives you a good idea of the size of the starting planet. Not including dungeons, interiors and instances. How 90% of the world does look to be open world as was said by a dev.

 

Now I know we still need a lot of info about the MMO side of the game. Crafting, PvP, AH's, social areas, raids, the "new" end game they are going to have and so on. But with just the level of RPG story that will be in this game will be worth the cost of the box IMO. And with 1600 hours of unique class story, a sub of $15 will be worth it. But the years of sub is still up for debate. We will see as spring of 2011 gets closer and closer.

 

The maps are great and not to mention that Daniel said in an interview the starter-worlds are ridiculously small compared to the others.

"If you're going to act like a noob, I'll treat you like one." -Caskio

Adventurers wear fancy pants!!!

  MikeB

MMORPG.com Community Manager

Joined: 5/27/09
Posts: 5399

9/08/10 3:28:56 PM#9
Originally posted by Unlight


"More on the topic of moral choices, Daniel discussed the difficulty of going against the grain as a Sith or Jedi character. In one example, (spoilers ahead!), Daniel described one of the early missions involving the Sith Warrior who is collecting crystal shards in a tomb. The Warrior is assaulted by another Sith hopeful and his cronies, who is attempting to steal the crystals from you because he could not gather them himself. The player can choose to give the failed Sith his crystals at this point, which is obviously a Light Side choice, but that resets the quest for the player, forcing him to redo the entire tomb. It ain’t easy being good when you’re supposed to be bad. C’est la vie!"

 

Does anyone know if this is just an incomplete quest, or is it indicative of the types of roleplayering decisions you're presented?  Because I'm reading this example as...

Choose Option "A"

or

Choose Option "B" -> Restart Quest -> Choose Option "A"

...which doesn't strike me as much of a choice.  Are you simply relegated to repeating quests when you choose the wrong path, or will there be some other sort of method used?

 

 

Option B would play out Choose Option "B" -> Reaquire crystals - > Complete quest

You are simply re-gathering the crystals as a result of giving them away, not literally restarting the quest as due to a false "choice". I hope that clears that up. Your main objective is to get the crystals, but you gave them away to do a good deed, that doesn't mean you can just return and complete the quest though, you need those crystals, so you'll need to regather them.

Daniel used this example to illustrate that being a light Sith wasn't an easy path.

Michael "MikeB" Bitton
Community Manager
Twitter: @eMikeB

  Unlight

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 2586

9/08/10 3:59:37 PM#10
Originally posted by MikeB

Originally posted by Unlight


"More on the topic of moral choices, Daniel discussed the difficulty of going against the grain as a Sith or Jedi character. In one example, (spoilers ahead!), Daniel described one of the early missions involving the Sith Warrior who is collecting crystal shards in a tomb. The Warrior is assaulted by another Sith hopeful and his cronies, who is attempting to steal the crystals from you because he could not gather them himself. The player can choose to give the failed Sith his crystals at this point, which is obviously a Light Side choice, but that resets the quest for the player, forcing him to redo the entire tomb. It ain’t easy being good when you’re supposed to be bad. C’est la vie!"

 

Does anyone know if this is just an incomplete quest, or is it indicative of the types of roleplayering decisions you're presented?  Because I'm reading this example as...

Choose Option "A"

or

Choose Option "B" -> Restart Quest -> Choose Option "A"

...which doesn't strike me as much of a choice.  Are you simply relegated to repeating quests when you choose the wrong path, or will there be some other sort of method used?

 

 

Option B would play out Choose Option "B" -> Reaquire crystals - > Complete quest

You are simply re-gathering the crystals as a result of giving them away, not literally restarting the quest as due to a false "choice". I hope that clears that up. Your main objective is to get the crystals, but you gave them away to do a good deed, that doesn't mean you can just return and complete the quest though, you need those crystals, so you'll need to regather them.

Daniel used this example to illustrate that being a light Sith wasn't an easy path.

 

Ah...

I haven't been following the game that closely so this whole Light Sith thing is news to me.  I'll guess that by following the 'light' path, you're somehow rewarded with 'light points', which goes far to explaining the rationale for the decision branch.  Thanks for clearing it up.

  Senadina

Novice Member

Joined: 4/16/06
Posts: 882

9/08/10 8:30:35 PM#11

Looks like there is even LESS incentive to group, at least in PUGS, if some random dick can screw with your  story. I mostly solo anyway, and I am really looking forward to TOR, but I think GW2 is doing a better job with multiplayer;  making it welcoming, cooperative, non-committal, and rewarding.

  droini

Novice Member

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 73

9/08/10 11:42:38 PM#12
Originally posted by Senadina

Looks like there is even LESS incentive to group, at least in PUGS, if some random dick can screw with your  story. I mostly solo anyway, and I am really looking forward to TOR, but I think GW2 is doing a better job with multiplayer;  making it welcoming, cooperative, non-committal, and rewarding.

 

 I don't agree. U just have to Talk to your PUGs instead of taking the 1st person who says I in the LFG channel. ( Anyone doing So & SO quest? Need 1 more any class.  LFG: I do. :Send invite:] Now you don';t talk with him or her u just run through the instance as fast as Poss) Now with SW:ToR System u got to put a little bit of Though and some friendly talking into a Pug group. #2 goes like so. ( Anyone Doing So & So quest? Looking for anyclass Lgtside person Pref. PM me with your info thanks.)  Plus u will have to talk to your group in a Instance for a change instead of the No Talk PuGs of any Other MMO. I myself Enjoy have a Small Guild of 12 to Start with. This is a Good way of having enough ppl to quest with and u don't have to wonder if that guy who joined  is right for the guild. I always like to use PuGs to find my Guild Members. Make sure we don't get a Ass, Ninja or Just plain out Numskull in our Guild. Even in 6 years of being Guild Master in WoW we Stayed around 60 ppl some of the best ppl ever. Now we had a Sister Guild to work with to make it easier for Raids and so on. Which our Officers and there Officers would have a month Meeting make sure everything was going good. Then after we had our time we would have everyone show up for gifts and Prom's to deserving Members. Guess went off Subject. hehe Long story short PuGs where u got to talk with your Group is a Good thing.

  karmath

Novice Member

Joined: 8/24/05
Posts: 841

9/09/10 4:02:18 AM#13

WoW 2.0

 

WoW in Space.

 

Enough said.

  Khalathwyr

Tipster

Joined: 6/02/04
Posts: 3151

Google is your friend.

9/09/10 7:25:37 AM#14

Daniel must be one pitiful writer since his view is only limited to "what he has seen". Must genuinely suck not having the ability to extrapolate and fill in the "B,C and D" between A and E.

 

Of course, daring to think outside and much less venture outside of the box is commonplace in this modern MMO insider culture. Granted, it probably is most completely the case that "2 foot" is about as deep as they wanted to go with their vision for their game it show alot about who Daniel Erickson is with respect to the MMO's and creating worlds. He'll give you icing but don't expect there to be any cake under it.

"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."

Kickstarter 1 / Naysayers 0

  solarine

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/25/06
Posts: 1204

9/09/10 8:42:43 AM#15

What Khal doesn't understand is, what he considers icing others might consider cake. Of course, he would have to think outside his own box for that. 

  Valecruiz

Novice Member

Joined: 5/25/07
Posts: 22

Do what you must.

9/09/10 9:53:02 AM#16
Originally posted by karmath


WoW 2.0

 

WoW in Space.

 

Enough said.

 

A) If you're not a Star Wars fan (even having just been pulled in by KoTOR 1 or 2), why bother giving 2 cents that has been seen and disregarded since this game was first introduced?

 

B) If you played WoW and have actually kept up to date with this game, you'd know the differences are vast.  YES this game does incorporate an "Easy Mac" type UI, but you'd be stupid to see the overwhelmingly high praise for that set-up and then NOT use it for the sake of "creativity."  Talent trees give more personality to the classes, and I'm not even sure WoW started that idea either.  As for story, well I dare you to say Blizzard engages their fanbase with their "rivoting" lore and storyline.  Finally, there is no reason to suggest this game is going to basically be set to EZ mode like WoW was after 3 years of a mostly whiny adolescent fanbase.  Yes this game can be primarily solo'd, but the sense of "epicness" Bioware is trying to create for each character would be ruined if you could hit level cap in 4 days.  Where WoW is primarily end-game based (not even going to get in depth for fear of an actual nerd rage :P), the heart of TOR lies in majestic story-telling, something only very few MMO's remember from their character-sheet and DM-based ancestors.

Balance Over All

  Khalathwyr

Tipster

Joined: 6/02/04
Posts: 3151

Google is your friend.

9/09/10 5:20:57 PM#17
Originally posted by solarine

What Khal doesn't understand is, what he considers icing others might consider cake. Of course, he would have to think outside his own box for that. 

No, I fully am capable of seeing that. As you don't know me personally it's a pretty stupid assumption to make. That said, I just have a very low opinion of shallow, unimaginative "your cake". When it comes to a list of gameplay options why I'd prefer this:

 

 

 

Over this:

 

However, unless your name is Daniel Erickson then my comments really weren't directed at you and you shouldn't have felt offended enough to reply directly to me. If you are he, then take the criticism and move on. You're in a business where pays to be able to do that lest you end up on meds.

"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."

Kickstarter 1 / Naysayers 0

  Suraknar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/26/07
Posts: 808

*Everyone dies, not everyone really fights*

9/09/10 10:10:28 PM#18

So all this text to say...

 

1- You can see how a Lightsaber is made

2- There are ground locations you can walk and run in

3- You will have some pre-scripted choices to make

4- Space combat is an Arcade minigame

The author should change jobs I think he talked more about the Star Wars movies than the actual game.

- Duke Suraknar -
Order of the Silver Star, OSS


ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard

  maskedweasel

Tipster

Joined: 9/24/07
Posts: 7264

"Kids, try imagining how far the universe extends! Keep thinking about it until you go insane."

9/09/10 10:46:41 PM#19
Originally posted by Khalathwyr
Originally posted by solarine

What Khal doesn't understand is, what he considers icing others might consider cake. Of course, he would have to think outside his own box for that. 

No, I fully am capable of seeing that. As you don't know me personally it's a pretty stupid assumption to make. That said, I just have a very low opinion of shallow, unimaginative "your cake". When it comes to a list of gameplay options why I'd prefer this:

 

 

 

Over this:

 

However, unless your name is Daniel Erickson then my comments really weren't directed at you and you shouldn't have felt offended enough to reply directly to me. If you are he, then take the criticism and move on. You're in a business where pays to be able to do that lest you end up on meds.

Showing pictures does nothing to create a better point, or accentuate that you're any more or less right in your opinion... nice try though.

In truth Its all a matter of perspective.  DE however, is actually able to speak about the lore that coincides with a lot of whats canon for the future as well as the past, areas of which many games don't even have to deal with.  SWG definitely didn't have to deal with it as they broke canon plenty of times while they went about ruining their game.   After 1000 pages of summarized lore to add to and change, most development teams couldn't scratch the surface on what the writers of TOR have to deal with.

 

But thats neither here nor there,  as you will only like your cake the way you like it,  you have our full support to create your own game in your perceived image, and after you do, we can revisit this conversation.

"Loan me a Dragon I wanna see space"


  Khalathwyr

Tipster

Joined: 6/02/04
Posts: 3151

Google is your friend.

9/10/10 12:54:34 AM#20
Originally posted by maskedweasel
Originally posted by Khalathwyr
Originally posted by solarine

What Khal doesn't understand is, what he considers icing others might consider cake. Of course, he would have to think outside his own box for that. 

No, I fully am capable of seeing that. As you don't know me personally it's a pretty stupid assumption to make. That said, I just have a very low opinion of shallow, unimaginative "your cake". When it comes to a list of gameplay options why I'd prefer this:

 

 

 

Over this:

 

However, unless your name is Daniel Erickson then my comments really weren't directed at you and you shouldn't have felt offended enough to reply directly to me. If you are he, then take the criticism and move on. You're in a business where pays to be able to do that lest you end up on meds.

Showing pictures does nothing to create a better point, or accentuate that you're any more or less right in your opinion... nice try though.

In truth Its all a matter of perspective.  DE however, is actually able to speak about the lore that coincides with a lot of whats canon for the future as well as the past, areas of which many games don't even have to deal with.  SWG definitely didn't have to deal with it as they broke canon plenty of times while they went about ruining their game.   After 1000 pages of summarized lore to add to and change, most development teams couldn't scratch the surface on what the writers of TOR have to deal with.

 

But thats neither here nor there,  as you will only like your cake the way you like it,  you have our full support to create your own game in your perceived image, and after you do, we can revisit this conversation.

Well, your problem is that you want this to be a "I'm right you're wrong" point from me and that's not where I'm heading. Course you have my full support in misreading what I write if it makes you feel better. That said, I'm sure my point wasn't wasted on others who read it for "one man's opinion" as opposed to an egregious attack on their game/game developers. I look at DE's comments for world building and their translation into game features as plain cake. He doesn't demonstrate vocally in my view the desire to add the other toppings as in the comparison of the two photos.

 

Again, you may not like or agree with my view but it is still valid nonetheless. It is as you say a matter of perspective. It isn't, fortunately, only a matter of your perspective which has to be adopted by all.

 

And please, find a new catch line other than the tired, immature  "when you make your own game, blah blah blah..". This isn't a fascist state (at least the country I live in). People are free to express their opinions and not only the ones you agree with. If people only hear your side of things than others out there making games will never know that there is a desire for things that you may not like.

 

Oh, and had I a $150 million dollar budget making a space opera game I can guarantee you there'd be mining in space (amongst a plethora other B,C and D activities) as well as a full crafting system to put SWG's to shame. Dedicated crafters would have heart attacks at the amount of gameplay offered. Yep, that on top real (ship or shore) housing and riding shotgun along with raids, group content and opt-in open world PvP in dynamically contested areas.

 

But I don't so I will continue to comment on what I like and what I don't. If my opinions offend you, well, I'm sure you'll find some way to make it through life.

"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."

Kickstarter 1 / Naysayers 0

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