Hello, been playing electronic games for about 28 years, and dozens of MMORPGs under my belt. 

Final Fantasy XIV is pretty much in the same vein as Final Fantasy XI, brought up to date with many notable improvements, and should be appreciated by much the same audience as the players who enjoyed Final Fantasy XI.  It doesn't pretend to be anything else, it doesn't bother competing with WoW because that's the wrong audience for it.   What is delivers is very solid, with some caveats:

• It will require a relatively-up-to-date computer: World of Warcraft was designed to run on two year old computers when it was released seven years ago.  Final Fantasy XIV requires a computer that has somewhere along the lines of 20 times the computational power you'd need to run WoW comfortably.  I've got a GeForce 250 GTS, 4 GB of RAM, and a quad core processor, a fairly middle-of-the-road system by today's standards: this was enough for an adequate play experience.  Anything less, and you'll likely be suffering.   If in doubt, try the benchmark.
• The controls take some getting used to (especially for non-FFXI players):  There is some definate consolitus here, but it can be overcome readily enough.  The user will need to be able to adapt to an interface other than strictly mouse and keyboard.   WASD travel with mouselook working on holding right click works well enough, but navigating the menus via mouse clicks is ill-advised: get used to using the cursor, enter, and escape key for menu navigation (these can be rebound to other keys).  Of course, if you're using a gamepad, you'll find FFXIV is more than ready to accommodate you.   Annoyingly, there is a bit of a GUI lag as the client seems to require frequent server interaction, but imagine this will die down a bit as the servers become better at handling the load throughout the duration of the stress test.
• RTFM implied, but not well supported during beta:  I think it's a fair assumption that there will be a manual included with the game, and it will be required reading.  There's a lot of status icons that pop up which you may sorely wish you had a manual about to know what they mean, the context-sensitive help is still in Japanese in this version.  There is a wealth of help tips to be found buried in various context menus throughout the game, such as explaining what attributes do, but I've seen easier ways to presenting that information, often they can only be accessed in certain geographical locations in the game.
• This game deliberately does not endeavor to make itself easy: The mobs will put up a good fight and easily overcome the unprepared or GUI-flustered.  I've encountered local guildleves (a certain kind of quest) where I'm expected to comb entire labyrinthine cities trying to find an NPC by name alone.  The grind has definite breadth: it does not assume you loathe playing the game.  It's good that the scenery is so enjoyable to take in, as you will spend a lot of time just walking to the same place several dozen times.  These things are all different facets of the essence of difficulty in gaming, their inclusion deliberate, overcoming them being means to enjoy the game.  Even the GUI impediment is uniquely stylistically Final Fantasy, and to do otherwise differs from fan expectation.
• Crashes and disconnections happen: Fairly infrequently, perhaps to the tune of once every 2-3 hours (give or take depending on how lucky you are) but they happen.  Unfortunately, if you happen to be doing a timed Guildleve when you're kicked out of the game, you will fail it.  You'll either have the patience to deal with this or you won't, but undoubtedly the frequency of this wil decrease as the game undergoes continued refinement.

In the end, Final Fantasy XIV is a game best appreciated by gaming connoisseurs: those who have a taste for fine quality in the details of their games, to the point where they're willing to overlook the kinds of flaws remaining as trivial in comparison to what is being delivered.

People who are only gamers by casual circumstance, and don't get this whole "quality gameplay experience is more important than ease-of-use" thing; who just want to have the thing do what it says on the box so they can get on with their lives; who boot up their games and scream, "entertain me without my having to lift a finger or get out," will likely not be able understand the appeal of Final Fantasy XIV.  However, you're certainly welcome to learn.

I actually enjoy a huge challenge i am an old school fps UT player.I also enjoyed FFXI a LOT!,brilliant design.

I also care little of bugs/lag ffxi had tons of high pings often around 600+,graphical lag can be an issue however.

The things i do not like about FFXIV is it is actually not very creative beyond what we laready have in FFXI.It has done some things i do not agree with but hey it is Square's decision i understand it.However there is also some things i feel are best for the game,not things i look at from a personal stand point.

I do not beleive for one minute Wow was created for low end machines,Blizzard used a cheap game engine they already had,there was no planning what so ever.As far as this game any new PC will play it fine,mine is outdated and i was able to play without any real issues.

I enjoyed the controls from FFXI right away,best i have seen in a long time,so imo FFXIV wil lnot take getting used to,you just have to be open minded beyond Wow.

manual? i would say probably couldn't hurt,i even think Square has been lazy in this department.

As far as easy goes,most said FFXI was hard,it may be challenging butfter you got used to it,it could at times be rather easy,it is just the learning curve people need to absorb if they are long time Wow players.

I never had any crash or D/c's, however i only played about an hour as the game just did not impress me from a design stand point.I would say it is quite possible that for MANY the d/c's were at times when Square was maybe installing an updated file or server reboot.I experienced little lag[graphic or server] ,turn off shadows is highly recomended ,you really don't miss much there.I actually had incredible low pings,not sure if that was due to lag or they actually have an east coast server handling some Beta ip's,something FFXI did not have,

Originally posted by geldonyetich

In the end, Final Fantasy XIV is a game best appreciated by gaming connoseurs: those who have a taste for fine quality in the details of their games, to the point where they're willing to overlook the kinds of flaws remaining as trivial in comparison to what is being delivered. 

People who are only gamers by casual circumstance, and don't get this whole "quality gameplay experience is more important than ease-of-use" thing; who just want to have the thing do what it says on the box so they can get on with their lives; who boot up their games and scream, "entertain me without my having to lift a finger or get out," will likely not be able understand the appeal of Final Fantasy XIV.  However, you're certainly welcome to learn.

Of course, its so clear to me now.  Obviously I have no ability to judge the quality of a game, nor do most of the people on these forums, who clearly aren't at all any part of the demographic these games are made for. 

So, running back and forth, otherwise known well as fed exing is now considered challenging content?  Please spare us the rose tinted goggles.  There are good and bad things about the game, but the things that would be considered terrible in another game don't get a free pass, and everyone else is clearly wrong, just because THIS is the game you like and want to play.

I play games to be entertained.  I spend more time wrestling with the obscene menu design than I do anything else, that is a significant flaw.  The GUI is your connection to the game, the less intuitive and more needlessly complex it is the less people feel connected to the game.  People easily recognize a quality interface when things work surprisingly well or intuitively such that you wonder why other games don't do that.  This is one of those games where the GUI is so obviously wrong to many players that its sparked a rather loud uproar.  It has little to do with whether they use a gamepad, but more so to do with archaic GUI design.  It could be massively improved, and it should be. 

Nice writeup, agree with you for the most part, just hope they get the UI lag fixed as soon as they can.

Otherwise loving the game.

Excellent and well written post!  We need more of these in this forum.  I would have even applauded you if you had not liked the game yet still delivered this sort of post.

I am, for one, thoroughly enjoying this game but fully understand the frustrations that many are facing when participating in this beta.  I played FFXI for years and love love love that game to this day.

I highly encourage more ex-FFXI lovers to give this beta a try and give it a good 5-10 hours before throwing up your feelings and/or critiques.

Let's leave the insults at the door though, please.

Thank you again, Sir and let's hope that the incoming comments will be balanced and mature.  (However, I do hope you are also prepared for the incoming flame attack!! :P )  

Originally posted by geldonyetich

Hello, been playing electronic games for about 28 years, and dozens of MMORPGs under my belt. 

Final Fantasy XIV is pretty much in the same vein as Final Fantasy XI, brought up to date with many notable improvements, and should be appreciated by much the same audience as the players who enjoyed Final Fantasy XI.  It doesn't pretend to be anything else, it doesn't bother competing with WoW because that's the wrong audience for it.   What is delivers is very solid, with some coveats:

• It will require a relatively-up-to-date computer: World of Warcraft was designed to run on two year old computers when it was released seven years ago.  Final Fantasy XIV requires a computer that has somewhere along the lines of 20 times the computational power you'd need to run WoW comfortably.  I've got a GeForce 250 GTS, 4 GB of RAM, and a quad core processor, a fairly middle-of-the-road system by today's standards: this was enough for an adequate play experience.  Anything less, and you'll likely be suffering.   If in doubt, try the benchmark.
• The controls take some getting used to (especially for non-FFXI players):  There is some definate consolitus here, but it can be overcome readily enough.  The user will need to be able to adapt to an interface other than strictly mouse and keyboard.   WASD travel with mouselook working on holding right click works well enough, but navigating the menus via mouse clicks is ill-advised: get used to using the cursor, enter, and escape key for menu navigation (these can be rebound to other keys).  Of course, if you're using a gamepad, you'll find FFXIV is more than ready to accomidate you.   Annoyingly, there is a bit of a GUI lag as the client seems to require frequent server interaction, but imagine this will die down a bit as the servers become better at handling the load throughout the duration of the stress test.
• RTFM implied, but not well supported during beta:  I think it's a fair assumption that there will be a manual included with the game, and it will be required reading.  There's a lot of status icons that pop up which you may sorely wish you had a manual about to know what they mean, the context-sensitve help is still in Japanese in this version.  There is a wealth of help tips to be found buried in various context menus throughout the game, such as explaining what attributes do, but I've seen easier ways to presenting that information, often they can only be accessed in certain geographical locations in the game.
• This game deliberately does not endeavor to make itself easy: The mobs will put up a good fight and easily overcome the unprepared or GUI-flustered.  I've encountered local guildleves (a certain kind of quest) where I'm expected to comb entire labyrinthine cities trying to find an NPC by name alone.  The grind has definate breadth: it does not assume you loathe playing the game.  It's good that the scenery is so enjoyable to take in, as you will spend a lot of time just walking to the same place several dozen times.  These things are all different fascets of the essense of difficulty in gaming, their inclusion deliberate, overcoming them being means to enjoy the game.  Even the GUI impediment is uniquely stylistically Final Fantasy, and to do otherwise differs from fan expectation.
• Crashes and disconnections happen: Fairly infrequently, perhaps to the tune of once every 2-3 hours (give or take depending on how lucky you are) but they happen.  Unfortunately, if you happen to be doing a timed Guildleve when you're kicked out of the game, you will fail it.  You'll either have the patience to deal with this or you won't, but undoubtedly the frequency of this wil decrease as the game undergoes continued refinement.

In the end, Final Fantasy XIV is a game best appreciated by gaming connoseurs: those who have a taste for fine quality in the details of their games, to the point where they're willing to overlook the kinds of flaws remaining as trivial in comparison to what is being delivered. 

People who are only gamers by casual circumstance, and don't get this whole "quality gameplay experience is more important than ease-of-use" thing; who just want to have the thing do what it says on the box so they can get on with their lives; who boot up their games and scream, "entertain me without my having to lift a finger or get out," will likely not be able understand the appeal of Final Fantasy XIV.  However, you're certainly welcome to learn.

Hi Craig I see you found a new job, after Cryptic.  Yeah, we really don't get it.  ;)

I'm afraid you have it the wrong way round.  Its more like settling for some cheap plonk, than some fine wine.  There is no quaility in FF XIV, at all, other than in the graphics.  There is way more wrong with this than simply lag, crashes and the UI.  The first two are likely to get fixed, everything else has little chance.

Mobs just stand there taking and putting out damage, just like in any other MMO.  They do not "put up a good fight".

Originally posted by robotsonik

 

I highly encourage more ex-FFXI lovers to give this beta a try and give it a good 5-10 hours before throwing up your feelings and/or critiques.

I've been trying to get into the Beta for weeks now. Didn't get accepted into closed Beta and now I can't even get into open beta.

Very frustrating reading people that get into beta, play for 30mins then quit. Oh well I'll keep trying....

this game is unbelievable good with my 20 year game experience. only thing you need is a decent pc.

Originally posted by robotsonik

Thank you again, Sir and let's hope that the incoming comments will be balanced and mature.  (However, I do hope you are also prepared for the incoming flame attack!! :P )  

Prepared and largely ignoring.  After all, once a fellow has set the line at, "you just don't see it," there's no real sense of arguing with them, now is there?   In what I've seen so far, my universal reply would be, "yes, I see you disagreed, for the reasons exactly as I said you would."  For example, I'm not going to try to convince someone of the value of travel time if they can't see it themselves, if they don't already know this then their current convictions put it beyond them to understand.  To put it more charitably, there will be a differing opinion, and no chance that these opinions will change through my actions.

I would, however, clarify to anyone who thinks that this is a universal praise thread that I did point out several flaws in the game.  My bottom line wasn't "Final Fantasy XIV is awesome and if you think otherwise you must be an unexperienced player," so much as "Final Fantasy XIV has its flaws, it would be nice if it were flawless, but connoisseurs among gamers will find that what FFXIV delivers is valuable enough that the flaws are trivial in comparison."

These are MMORPG forums.  It's been my experience that, on any forum, the typical idle behavior will be to not read what was written and to nitpick.  Neither behavior is particularly worth acknowledging.  At the end of the day, this is just what it says it is in the subject line, a ridiculously experienced gamer's first day verdict, nothing less, nothing more.  If they want to try to start an argument about that, it's merely a sophomoric impulse.

All I can think is its been 20 years of pac-man, if you seriously think this is good.

The quaility of the game has zero to do with having a decent PC.  All it means is you can make it look prettier.

Originally posted by Torment1982

Originally posted by geldonyetich

In the end, Final Fantasy XIV is a game best appreciated by gaming connoseurs: those who have a taste for fine quality in the details of their games, to the point where they're willing to overlook the kinds of flaws remaining as trivial in comparison to what is being delivered. 

People who are only gamers by casual circumstance, and don't get this whole "quality gameplay experience is more important than ease-of-use" thing; who just want to have the thing do what it says on the box so they can get on with their lives; who boot up their games and scream, "entertain me without my having to lift a finger or get out," will likely not be able understand the appeal of Final Fantasy XIV.  However, you're certainly welcome to learn.

Of course, its so clear to me now.  Obviously I have no ability to judge the quality of a game, nor do most of the people on these forums, who clearly aren't at all any part of the demographic these games are made for. 

 

 Good, glad you finally realized this.  More people on this site should swallow their pride and do the same.

I agree with the OP.  SE obviously put a lot of time into the dialogue writing, the cutscenes, the graphics (obviously, and yes you do need a good rig for this game to appreciate it), and all the little details, and people all over this board are complaining that the UI isn't just like WoW and they can't spend all their time killing things, like in WoW.  FFXIV is all about game world immersion, something which has been sorely lacking in all mmorpgs since, well, FFXI, to be honest.

If you find yourself skipping through all the cutscenes in frustration just to get to the point where you can get your orders to kill something, this game probably isn't for you, and you're probably a gaming redneck.

If you find yourself thinking, "My God why can't every shop be labeled and right next to eachother!" instead of enjoying the feeling of actually running around through a bustling fantasy city and finding out where everything is, this game probably isn't for you, and you're probably a gaming redneck.

The list could go on and on, obviously, but the point is that all the people panning this game after 2 days in the world, most who have probably not even finished the tutorial yet, are not, for whatever reason, able to let themselves try out a game that's different.

I know and understand that it's hard to concevie of an mmorpg that's not a WoW clone and doesn't center completely on repetative combat and the same old big bar of boxes based UI because that's really all we've been given for the past decade basically, but that's not a good thing.  I remember clearly reading countless posts about how everyone is sick of WoW-clones, and now we have something new, and everyone is complaining that it's not familiar...

There are flaws though- if SE doesn't give support for a hardware-driven mouse by release, there's going to be a serious backlash.  I'm not sure computer players are willing to spring for a controller just for this game (although I am, definitely, based on how amazing I find the game).  Other than that, as the OP wrote, I can't really find a single flaw that is serious enough to not consider this game amazing, even in it's current Beta state.

Originally posted by Elirion

Originally posted by Torment1982

Originally posted by geldonyetich

In the end, Final Fantasy XIV is a game best appreciated by gaming connoseurs: those who have a taste for fine quality in the details of their games, to the point where they're willing to overlook the kinds of flaws remaining as trivial in comparison to what is being delivered. 

People who are only gamers by casual circumstance, and don't get this whole "quality gameplay experience is more important than ease-of-use" thing; who just want to have the thing do what it says on the box so they can get on with their lives; who boot up their games and scream, "entertain me without my having to lift a finger or get out," will likely not be able understand the appeal of Final Fantasy XIV.  However, you're certainly welcome to learn.

Of course, its so clear to me now.  Obviously I have no ability to judge the quality of a game, nor do most of the people on these forums, who clearly aren't at all any part of the demographic these games are made for. 

 

 Good, glad you finally realized this.  More people on this site should swallow their pride and do the same.

When people make mmorpg's this is part of the demographic they have to appeal to.  Whine and complain or sit in denial that everyone else around you completely doesn't get it.  If they hate a game a competent designer asks why, trivial or not.  Its often the developers with a "vision" who at the end of the day just wasted a ton of money building their beautiful tunnel to some place people didn't want to go. 

It doesn't matter if they have 28 years of experience, or 28 minutes, you still need to figure out why, and telling them to shut up or "swallow their pride" might make you feel better but it certainly won't ever improve a game.

Originally posted by Torment1982

Originally posted by Elirion

Originally posted by Torment1982

Originally posted by geldonyetich

In the end, Final Fantasy XIV is a game best appreciated by gaming connoseurs: those who have a taste for fine quality in the details of their games, to the point where they're willing to overlook the kinds of flaws remaining as trivial in comparison to what is being delivered. 

People who are only gamers by casual circumstance, and don't get this whole "quality gameplay experience is more important than ease-of-use" thing; who just want to have the thing do what it says on the box so they can get on with their lives; who boot up their games and scream, "entertain me without my having to lift a finger or get out," will likely not be able understand the appeal of Final Fantasy XIV.  However, you're certainly welcome to learn.

Of course, its so clear to me now.  Obviously I have no ability to judge the quality of a game, nor do most of the people on these forums, who clearly aren't at all any part of the demographic these games are made for. 

 

 Good, glad you finally realized this.  More people on this site should swallow their pride and do the same.

When people make mmorpg's this is part of the demographic they have to appeal to.  Whine and complain or sit in denial that everyone else around you completely doesn't get it.  If they hate a game a competent designer asks why, trivial or not.  Its often the developers with a "vision" who at the end of the day just wasted a ton of money building their beautiful tunnel to some place people didn't want to go. 

It doesn't matter if they have 28 years of experience, or 28 minutes, you still need to figure out why, and telling them to shut up or "swallow their pride" might make you feel better but it certainly won't ever improve a game.

 But complaining constantly on this site will "improve a game"?  More people complain about WoW on this site than any other MMORPG.  Show me where any of that complaining has led to changes in WoW.  You overestimate the importance of this site.

Lets avoid personal attacks guys. Stay on topic.

I know I am coming off as a bit arrogant here, but I don't mean to talk down to anyone.   It's just really hard to express the sentiment I'm trying to get at without sounding elitist: it's a legitimiate observation that there will be players who have come to recognize certain instrinsic qualities in Final Fantasy XIV which make complaints such as the GUI seem relatively trivial in comparison. 

When I say, "you're welcome to learn," I'm not being flippiant, but in much the same way that you'd hold a convention of connoisseurs open to the general public specifically so they can witness the kinds of things connoisseurs find exciting about a particular medium.  This guy has the right of it.

You might find that offensive, you might say, "well, I've been gaming for 35 years and I don't recognize these qualities so he's belittling me."  But it's more like, just because you've been driving a car for 35 years doesn't mean you're a connosseur of cars.  Maybe what you appreciate about the cars is their utiliarian value.  You just need the car to get you where you need to go; you just need the game to entertain you.  That's fine, but a connosseur is really more interested in the artistic level, and this is what Final Fantasy XIV has going for it.

Of course, the comparison between car operator and connosseur of cars breaks down when you get into the argument that the point of games is to be artistically interesting.  I think it's rather important that games do more than entertain cheaply and easily, I like to think games should have more depth, and Final Fantasy XIV gives me some hope along these lines.  Considering that this is my belief, it's not too hard to figure out why I find a console-hobbled interface to be a trivial concern. 

I describe there as being different "niches" of gamers and maybe that Final Fantasy XIV is just "not for you" if you don't enjoy it.  Again, this is not to belittle you.  World of Warcraft is often described as "the fast food of MMORPGs," an analogy that reflects that it serves millions but isn't a whole lot more than an extremely polished EverQuest with a more casual-friendly balance, but there's nothing wrong with that for millions of players who just want to get their MMORPG fix.  If that's how you meet your caloric needs, who am I to judge?  However, what if you don't want fast food?  What if you want fine dining?  With all the little frilly side dishes like "entirely player driven economy" and "long travel times to give the world a sense of size" and "deep, challenging, largely team-based combat" and such?  Final Fantasy games have never been about "fast food" entertainment, and Final Fantasy XIV is no exception. 

I'm not leaving you out in the cold.  You're all invited to eat fine dining too.  It won't even cost more per month.  Just don't complain that the food takes 2 hours to get here, as that's not the point, and you're disturbing the other diners.   Frankly, we need this, there's dozens of games that go by the World of Warcraft model, let us have a few that don't aspire to serve millions if it means comprimising the exquisiteness of the dish.

Originally posted by holdenhamlet

There are flaws though- if SE doesn't give support for a hardware-driven mouse by release, there's going to be a serious backlash.  I'm not sure computer players are willing to spring for a controller just for this game (although I am, definitely, based on how amazing I find the game).  Other than that, as the OP wrote, I can't really find a single flaw that is serious enough to not consider this game amazing, even in it's current Beta state.

I hope this is fixed soon too.  I was afraid of this.  I don't mind playing with my controller, but I have a lot of friends who prefer WASD & Mouse.  Also, the fact that the UI isn't controlled by the mouse will deter them. :(

Played WoW for a long time as well as quite a few mmo's that came after and very few that came before. I never played FFXI and am in the beta now and I must say I get how this game could be really fun. I like how different it is but this game needs some basic tutorial system bad. I am fine if it is supposed to appeal and be similar to those who liked FFXI but I will never reach that level of understanding before I get to frusterated and quite without some help on the basics. Just knowing what my abilities do and who is a useful NPC and who sells what type of item is really all I need. I like this game but I think I am going to wait a good 4-8 months before buying in hopes that some tutorial is added for new players.

Having played and/ or beta tested most major MMOs and many not so major ones I can tell you that this game is fundementally flawed and not ready for prime time in any way.

As I sit here typing  this I am waiting for todays small patch to install and will be well finished typing this before it is complete. So the flaws start there. Even with horrible launch day patcher issues on AOC and other games I have never seen a patcher as aweful as this one. It is a cobbled torent type POS. I have no idea what the devs were thinking.

Basically, anyone who needs the client will need to search for  the work arounds to get it done in anything close to a reasonable time frame. The FF fan base say " The work arounds are not that hard" and that is true but common people, you actually HAVE TO use the work  arounds.

I could go on about the patcher but you get the idea.

I logged in and got to the character creator. Here I thought....awesome. nice to look at...OK, how do you get the game into full screen mode? some forum searches and I found that easily enough. No where in the game though can you change these settings. The configure tool can only be done outside the game for things like resolution changes and windowed or full screen mode. Not good but not terrible.

The character creator did get me a little hyped up as it is nice and you feel the creativity of the game. They need more hairstyles and voices, etc but it is beta so that is OK.

I won't go into the technical issues once in game but I can tell you that the fundemental flaw of the gameplay after terrible patching tools is the sluggish mechanics and lack of any sort of tutorial or explaination for what are non-standard ( MMO, CRPG, or 3rd person games) mechanics. It took a while to figure anything out and to figure out what the heck to do.

I did not get much farther than that. the game LOOKS fantastic and the cut scenes are pure FF style but again, I see fundemental mechanical and gameplay characteristics that will keep this game from being great.

OK, the sucky torent style patcher appears to be stuck so I am going to restart it now. I want to give it a shot and be fair but I am not impressed so far.

The game is amazing,i just hope they add in game recipes.

No recipes in game,and not being able to alt tab is just dumb.