Originally posted by Maelkor
...

There is a reason why the complexity of games is limited, especially upon release and it usually has to do with money. Everything costs money and there is a limit to how much a company has to work with when creating something new. I would much rather play an extremely well made game with a very narrow focus than a so so game with a very broad focus.

Yes, okay, money.

And if you don't have the money stay the hell away from complex IPs.

If you want to develop a 'cheap(er)' MMO - develop your own IP and don't hype it to all hell creating unrealistic expectations.

Right now there are a growing number of MMO companies going bankrupt.  That should be a warning to others.

WH40K is a well known IP - people know what factions / units / weapons are available and they know the lore.  That creates one hell of an expectation.

It's going to be expensive to deliver an MMO for that IP - so if Vigil don't have the money required to do a proper job they should surrender the IP.  Because if they continue and don't have the funds they will release a half arsed game, fail, go bankrupt and be left with nothing.

A safer option for them (if they are not sure if they have the money required) would be to start a trucking company... at least that way if it all goes wrong they can sell the trucks.

Originally posted by Ramael

Originally posted by Frostbite05

Originally posted by heavyhebrew

Two factions in WH40K? Hahahahahaha.

Oh wait, they are serious. In lore, the Imperium working with, say, the Eldar, would be a 1 off kind of situation, usually involving the Inquisition against a demonic manifestation or a Tyranid invasion. And no Space Marine Chapter Master worth the name would entrust his Marines in an alliance with Xenos with a specific ORDER from the Inquisition. (and even then it's still 50/50)

Just like WAR when us beta testers saw the writing on the wall about 2 faction RvR (and the multitudinoous things like, say, memory leaks) the designers/programmers will ignore us and stick to the developement plan.

Why? Because it's all about the money. And my personal theory that Games Workshop actively tries to gimp MMO development so it doesn't take away from miniature sales.

 

in beta no one said a thing about the 2 factions. The 2 faction system wasn't the problem with WAR the memory leaks and overall server stability is what killed it.

 

Pretty much. I actually enjoyed WAR to a degree, but what knifed WAR in the spleen going out the gate had very little to do with the 2 factions and/or the races contained therein.

I enjoyed WAR too and I agree. Stability and bugs was it's first problem. But then they fixed that and the loss of players stabilized, even though they had to merge like 60 servers into 12 or something like that.

However population balance WAS a problem. When you play the game and are dominated for 7 months straight you lose people, which makes matters worst. You can merge servers to balance it out but that only works because you are bleeding people...

In they end they went for game mechanics that favors the underdog... it kind of works... but most people naturally demanded a 3rd realm because that is a more "organic" way to balance things, and for them to stick to what they knew, which is DAoC.

As much as I did enjoy WAR... 2 factions is wrong for this IP and a bad strategy when so many games already offer it.

Nearly all the time in DAOC on my server the two weaker factions would team up to take on the leading one. That was the balancing factor which 2 sides lacks. The picture for this article was very dark millenium but everything else I have seen shouts pastel coloured millenium, lets hope grim and gritty wins out.

Not sure if this has been said already, apoligies if so. WAR didn't exactly do well, I seriously doubt GW will allow this game to be destroyed by bad lore. If they say 2 factions can and will work and GW have said "yup its cool with us" then I for one will wait to see how its explained with an open mind.

I'd prefer more than 2 factions don't get me wrong, but as long as the game works and as long as the reasons behind 2 factions works then I'm happy :)

Going to be crap. They'll build it up to be something that can't be delivered and we'll all just be pissed off. Will go the same way as most the other heavy IP games of the past 4 years. Shame, could've been so much more with the willingness to take some risks.

Every army should be it's own faction.

If they can't have everything finished for release they can release other armies and races as updates and tell players who are playing those new races as they're released to shut up and suck it up. They got the race so no they won't get any special treatement because the other race has been in play for nine months.

Land should be divided like DAoC with PvE zone and open planets that are up for conquer.

PvP should be mandatory with your pve 'prowess' dropping without engagement in the real war...ie 'training' will only take you so far.

Crafted items should be the best items available beyond extremely rare weapons captured from pvp planet fortresses that can be wielded for two weeks before they are 'stolen' back by whatever assassin/merc group you want to spin a story about.

Fighting should result in other bonuses, whether they be crafting, melee, ranged, extra 'income' 'cash drops' better crafting resources from foundary whatever.

They state from day 1 we balance our powers/abilities/classes for pvp or pve. I don't care which one but they should state it and stick with it and tell crying newbies to go back to whatever game they came from when they cry for more balance because they suck. Because Devs need to state we balance our game according to what we perceive as fair. Not what you want you fotm to be.

But hey why would any marketing guru or producer possible allow a dev to 'alienate the customer base' to that degree. Instead they'll make a crap two sided game that'll be a token homage to 40k that the enthusiasts they're trying to bring in will simply go 'screw that, was good for alook but will go back to my TABLE TOP gaming and MINITAURE PAINTING and BUILDING TERRAIN and sharing all those things with groups of people who love doing those same things. One day these people will get a clue that just because something has a fanbase or enthusioasts doesn't mean that they'll come play MMO's because they're a completely different thing. Sure some of us play MMO's and own half a dozen armies and have been playing since good old WD was a small orange fanzine in black and white and when someone talks about squat trikes and rogue trader and harlequins we have a clue.

Or we understand that something like Xenos Hybris is a RADICAL MINOR faction and has no real support at all and the majority of humanity would right it off as a bunch of heretics who should be burnt at the stake in lore and outside of lore was nothing but a little fluff to add to a TABLE TOP ROLE PLAY GAME as BAD GUYS for the HEROIC PC's to interact with. But hey keep grasping at those straws. We also understand that the Eye of Terror was a way to include all players in a game and was done as a marketing ploy for customers and nothing really to do with lore as it was written. Scenario was created so people could play.

Suffice to say weak thinking, spineless producers and creators will leave us with a hlaf baked imitation of every other MMO we have out there in an attempt to make ap lay for a big market without understanding a small niche product like table top W40K gaming went out on a limb years ago and certain people loved it and respected it and others simply thought it was crap. Same will happen here and in some stupid attempt to please everyone the developers and producers will let down everyone.

For gods sake, I wish some game company would grow a pair and build us a game with meat on it's bones and an identity I can respect and become passionate about...

GL DMO, you're going to need it...

The Eye of Terror campaign is so specific that it shouldn't be taken as an example.

In 40k there's no way space marines would deal with Eldars or Tau or anything xenos as they have been brainwashed for centuries to hate anything non "Emperor certified", they even slaughtered humans by the millions because they refused to acknowledge the Emperor.

Never forget than in 40 the Imperium are not the "good guys" they are an ultra violent dictatorship who slaughters everything that doesn't fit their belief. The faction which would be the closest to the "good" side would probably be the Tau.

As far as black templars, well... not really my cup of tea, u'd give me Blood Angels or Space Wolves, ok, but BT...

So far i'm not optimistic on this game; the engine looks pretty outdated, the factions system will be bland at the best, it'll prolly be something as failed as WAR. But who knows, we might get surprised by a good MMO one day.

Originally posted by Frostbite05

Originally posted by heavyhebrew

Two factions in WH40K? Hahahahahaha.

Oh wait, they are serious. In lore, the Imperium working with, say, the Eldar, would be a 1 off kind of situation, usually involving the Inquisition against a demonic manifestation or a Tyranid invasion. And no Space Marine Chapter Master worth the name would entrust his Marines in an alliance with Xenos with a specific ORDER from the Inquisition. (and even then it's still 50/50)

Just like WAR when us beta testers saw the writing on the wall about 2 faction RvR (and the multitudinoous things like, say, memory leaks) the designers/programmers will ignore us and stick to the developement plan.

Why? Because it's all about the money. And my personal theory that Games Workshop actively tries to gimp MMO development so it doesn't take away from miniature sales.

 

in beta no one said a thing about the 2 factions. The 2 faction system wasn't the problem with WAR the memory leaks and overall server stability is what killed it.

Yes and no.

While initially those were the major problems that did "kill" it, the 2-faction concept cock-up was lying in wait.

I've been playing WAR since open beta until now and I believe, however immodest it might sound, I have just a little tiny bit of authority to speak of these matters over folks who quit in the first month and are still talking about "game-killing" problems that were actually solved a few years back. If someone starts hating WAR because "everybody's in scenarios and RvR lakes are empty" you know the said "expert" hasn't played the game in the past 1 1/2 years. But let me continue:

Now that there are no memory leaks and server stability is pretty much stellar and all the technicalities are more or less solved it is NOW that you can really appreciate how dumb and unworkable 2-factions are in a RvR game.

Sorry, but at THIS moment, 2-factions is THE number one problem WAR has and it is the prime reason this game won't ever live up to its potential no matter how much they manage to polish it. Simply put, it is boring and predictable. The T4 campaign is boring and predictable back-and-forth tug of war that always plays out the same. A game can be whatever it wants to be but it must never ever be boring and predictable and they have no way of really solving this except a complete overhaul of all the games zones and races and classes..  This is the PRIME reason WAR is not working right now.

It is a textbook example how a single flawed core concept can pretty much negate all the subsequent work and polish on a game. If you build your house on a flawed foundation ("say this sandbank looks really cool with the pretty sea-view") it doesn't matter how much money and effort you pump in it, it is till going to sink.

Might like a system with 2 factions? But say you are stupid? You are not able to invent the game mechanics and copy WOW, no site can invent a BG and destroy that of the 40k, with a BG that promised well you have managed to achieve yet another trite, simplistic, and as a clone of WOW that will eventually be a huge FLOP, which is even closer to the figures of the original game as all WOW clones in recent years to flop continues you developers are still not able to understand that people want something new and not a copy of what already exists, and as if that were not enough to destroy it a title instead of your small and bankruptcy game deserves much, you could easily make 3 or 4 but no factions must meet to play good against evil because you are not able to do something serious, as we will have the classic SITEMA idiot class with tank, DPS, melle, etc., and tell us that this will be new and we like it? We will meet to pick mushrooms with a space marine on duty for the victim? And maybe with the little animals Tyrannyd as bad in the woods? But please you are just incapable of buffoons who hope copying a game that has had success mixing it with a title which in turn succeeded to outperform the market with little effort, at least evitatevi the usual nonsense of you will like how we are doing, " because it is a copy of something already there but I'll pretend to be new, "that you are inept.

Originally posted by Salias

Might like a system with 2 factions? But say you are stupid? You are not able to invent the game mechanics and copy WOW, no site can invent a BG and destroy that of the 40k, with a BG that promised well you have managed to achieve yet another trite, simplistic, and as a clone of WOW that will eventually be a huge FLOP, which is even closer to the figures of the original game as all WOW clones in recent years to flop continues you developers are still not able to understand that people want something new and not a copy of what already exists, and as if that were not enough to destroy it a title instead of your small and bankruptcy game deserves much, you could easily make 3 or 4 but no factions must meet to play good against evil because you are not able to do something serious, as we will have the classic SITEMA idiot class with tank, DPS, melle, etc., and tell us that this will be new and we like it? We will meet to pick mushrooms with a space marine on duty for the victim? And maybe with the little animals Tyrannyd as bad in the woods? But please you are just incapable of buffoons who hope copying a game that has had success mixing it with a title which in turn succeeded to outperform the market with little effort, at least evitatevi the usual nonsense of you will like how we are doing, " because it is a copy of something already there but I'll pretend to be new, "that you are inept.

Ascolta

Trascrizione fonetica

 

Same mistakes all over again.

Neeeeeext!

I'm just hurt....2 factions just doesn't fit.  People could try as they like to justify it but it wont work for me with 40k.  I'd say the best thing they coulda done was make it 4 factions: Imperium, Eldar, Dark Eldar, and Orks.

Everyone could have just been going against eachother trying to achieve their own goals...shit, if they devs were GOOD devs, they could have done this.

Having read the interview I signed up to the web site to state how disappointed I am with the 2 factions. Is there anyway we can put our point across to the Dev since I would say 95% of people are unhappy with the 2 factions idea (old idea that is).

Im really starting to think Games Workshop is in the middle of a warp storm... How can they even aprove a W40k game that looks like a Willy Wonka fantasy game? With graphics as if the models are painted by a 2 year old? Were is the gritty universe, no future, bloody war and lovecraft madness feeling?

Has the developer even seen GW artwork??

Why isnt Relic doing this game, atleast they tend to get the balance between computer game graphics and W40k lore right (well mostly)

Or is GW just a money hungry corp, that want to get back at Blizzard for nicking all there ideas?

I don't know it just worries me even the Dark Libary book covers are starting to look like Manga drawings and a lot less oil painting stuff.

I guess we all have to get used to a W40k universe were the 4 gods of Chaos are portaited as angry Teletubbies just so to increase the target demographic.

PS if the factions are gonna be order and corruption then the inquisition should execute an exterminatus order on the GW system cause they have been corrupted by Nurgle...

I just read that this is due for release in 2013... Seriously... whats the point in releasing info now? I think its bad enough when games try to get you hooked 6 months before release, but 2013??

Wake me up in 3 years time.

I was excited when they put out the first trailer for a WH40k MMO but I did have some concerns when you really start thinking about what they're saying and showing.

The faction issues in relation to the IP hasn't been answered at all and was brushed aside with a comment along the lines of, "GW is working with us.  How can it go wrong?"  It is the biggest point of concern now for WH40k fans.  Nothing else really is wrong from what we know, but the idea of this game going the route of Order vs Destruction, ala Warhammer Online doesn't sit well with many.

Oh, and this interview doesn't really tell much.  Granted, the game is quite a ways off, but still, it doesn't say anything useful in new information.

Look in 40k lore does 3 factions make any more sence than 2 factions?  If you have 3 factions how are you going to break them up?  Either way there is going to be an alliance of some sort weather it's Chaos and Orks versus Imperium of man versus Eldar.  Nope if your going the multiple seperate server route 2 playable factions make sence with maybe a 3rd NPC faction of Nids and Necros that wouldn't really co-operate but would be attacking from different parts at different times maybe. On such server setups more than 3 factions would spread the playerbase to thinly and all kinds of weird player made alliances would be created anyway which could end up being worse.

To illistrate take a server population.  Now divide that in half to represent how many can play at any one time.  Now divide that by however many factions your thinking of.  Thats the best case senerio of how many people you have playing your faction while your online.  So with a 20,000 server population 3 faction system your best case senerio for potential team mates is 3333.  With 4 factions it's 2500 and so on and so forth.  Of those potential team mates though alot don't want to do what your doing, alot arn't at a high enough level, alot are to high a level and some are complete idiots on your ignore list.

The obvious solution to this is to have everyone on 1 server but it would appear that only a couple of small niche game developers have the technology to do this.  Then again these guys also arn't looking for 1 million customers straight off the bat like THQ is.  It would also appear evan the most advanced dev team on this sort of set up (CCP) runs into problems with around 350,000 accounts when over 30,000 want to try and play at once.  So it would appear that the infrastructure and server technology isn't up to the task to handle a single sever with the kind of numbers the big devhouses want/need to justify the expence of developing a MMO.

The next solution would be some kind of lobby type system.  However recent experiments in such systems wouldn't seem to support this solution.  APB is struggling financially,  Global Adgenda has been forced to drop the sub and now runs a GW type setup and still doesn't seem that popular.  Crimecraft is FTP and dropped off most peoples radar not that it registered much of a blip on them anyways.  Not exactly the kind of results you can take to the investors and expect to make it through the presentation let alone getting to the point where you can ask them for money.

Nope the best of a bunch of poor options remains multiple seperate servers and that means low numbers of factions of which at least in this case 2 playable ones makes as sence as 3 while leaving room to add more races in future expansions.

I really wont mind on 2 factions cause winter assault has done two races allied. kind of...

Still I just dont want to see eldar xenos in an imperial city selling good, or imperial of man on craftworlds selling there good.

Space marines flying falcon grav tanks and using eldar guns. Its not 40k :(

Originally posted by Daedrick

Same mistakes all over again.

 

 

 

Neeeeeext!

 

What they are going to have server stability and crashing problems as well???? Because that was WARs only problem

They could do 3 factions for now. Space marines/Imperial , Orks and Eldar then just add 1-2 factions in the future. Then make it only 2 servers for Us and Euro to maximize the population. And have like a mini peace treaty that last for a few hrs to help them overcome the faction with a lot of players IMHO. So whats your solutions?