Originally posted by BishopMiles

"Black Templars place great emphasis on close combat prowess and honour. As such they can often be seen charging into suicidal situations to avenge fallen comrades, but this does not dispel that such tactics indeed prove effective. By their doctrine, they abhor = ( to regard with extreme repugnance = [ strong dislike, distaste, or antagonism] the traitor, the alien and the mutant. The latter trait means that Black Templars stand apart from most other chapters by eliminating Librarians from their organisation. The reason for this is that Librarians are psykers, and psykers are considered a mutant trait that must be kept apart from potential warp influence during battle. However, Black Templars do use non-combat psykers in other tasks that do not directly involve combat. These include Astropaths and Navigators." - Lexicanum (Warhammer 40k wiki) added the definition for abhor.

Not sure how true that is fluff wise, but if it is then Vigil choose the wrong faction.

@Zarynterk Mabe some people don't play other races because GW never releases anything for them. Unlike Space Marines that get new stuff just about every couple of months. The Tau for example... Last thing we seen released for them was in 2006. (besides forge world models)

Bishop in the last year GW has updated The Nid codex and the Dark Eldar codex. Yes, they do take their sweet ass time releasing new dexes, but they do release them. Also, in my local gaming store I see people all the time playing xenos armies, which leads me to believe some will play other races... I however will be playing marines, and hopefully as a dreadnought =) or a Khorne Zerker

Originally posted by Zarynterk

Originally posted by BishopMiles

"Black Templars place great emphasis on close combat prowess and honour. As such they can often be seen charging into suicidal situations to avenge fallen comrades, but this does not dispel that such tactics indeed prove effective. By their doctrine, they abhor = ( to regard with extreme repugnance = [ strong dislike, distaste, or antagonism] the traitor, the alien and the mutant. The latter trait means that Black Templars stand apart from most other chapters by eliminating Librarians from their organisation. The reason for this is that Librarians are psykers, and psykers are considered a mutant trait that must be kept apart from potential warp influence during battle. However, Black Templars do use non-combat psykers in other tasks that do not directly involve combat. These include Astropaths and Navigators." - Lexicanum (Warhammer 40k wiki) added the definition for abhor.

Not sure how true that is fluff wise, but if it is then Vigil choose the wrong faction.

@Zarynterk Mabe some people don't play other races because GW never releases anything for them. Unlike Space Marines that get new stuff just about every couple of months. The Tau for example... Last thing we seen released for them was in 2006. (besides forge world models)

 

Bishop in the last year GW has updated The Nid codex and the Dark Eldar codex. Yes, they do take their sweet ass time releasing new dexes, but they do release them. Also, in my local gaming store I see people all the time playing xenos armies, which leads me to believe some will play other races... I however will be playing marines, and hopefully as a dreadnought =)

I will be playing Ork becuase I like orks, and to avoid the mess of spazzing 12 y/o's playing marines along with everyone else playign marines. Again, The fact marines will auto knock this game out of balance actually gives me more confidence that they will integrate pvp balancing systems.

Originally posted by Unicornicus

Originally posted by Zarynterk

Originally posted by BishopMiles

"Black Templars place great emphasis on close combat prowess and honour. As such they can often be seen charging into suicidal situations to avenge fallen comrades, but this does not dispel that such tactics indeed prove effective. By their doctrine, they abhor = ( to regard with extreme repugnance = [ strong dislike, distaste, or antagonism] the traitor, the alien and the mutant. The latter trait means that Black Templars stand apart from most other chapters by eliminating Librarians from their organisation. The reason for this is that Librarians are psykers, and psykers are considered a mutant trait that must be kept apart from potential warp influence during battle. However, Black Templars do use non-combat psykers in other tasks that do not directly involve combat. These include Astropaths and Navigators." - Lexicanum (Warhammer 40k wiki) added the definition for abhor.

Not sure how true that is fluff wise, but if it is then Vigil choose the wrong faction.

@Zarynterk Mabe some people don't play other races because GW never releases anything for them. Unlike Space Marines that get new stuff just about every couple of months. The Tau for example... Last thing we seen released for them was in 2006. (besides forge world models)

 

Bishop in the last year GW has updated The Nid codex and the Dark Eldar codex. Yes, they do take their sweet ass time releasing new dexes, but they do release them. Also, in my local gaming store I see people all the time playing xenos armies, which leads me to believe some will play other races... I however will be playing marines, and hopefully as a dreadnought =)

I will be playing Ork becuase I like orks, and to avoid the mess of spazzing 12 y/o's playing marines along with everyone else playign marines. Again, The fact marines will auto knock this game out of balance actually gives me more confidence that they will integrate pvp balancing systems.

If they don't offer dreadnought as a playable class, no Imperium for me... You have to admit though, the posibility of owning or using a Warhound titan in combat is sick... Orks would be my second choice, Kommando or Stormboy...

Ahh yes, but thethought of running a gargant is even cooler!!! It makes big booms and i doesnt walk, it mega-waddles

Be that as it may, if they make stormboy (which is a no brainer for me) thats what I will play. 

 I know we have Imperium Black Templars for one thing and X for the other but ya know what i just want in? a Commissar class.

 No idea how they would implement it but i would love a Commissar. Again i have no idea how it would work but i feel like going with sects from the other Imperial sections might be fun and depending how they go with the enemey i would love to see if similar could be done with them.

Originally posted by r118644

 I know we have Imperium Black Templars for one thing and X for the other but ya know what i just want in? a Commissar class.

 

 No idea how they would implement it but i would love a Commissar. Again i have no idea how it would work but i feel like going with sects from the other Imperial sections might be fun and depending how they go with the enemey i would love to see if similar could be done with them.

Yeah I also wondered if they would do something like that, mainly because IG troopers are so weak compared to Marines (Eldar, Orks and Chaos all have troopers comparable in power to Marines,) that the only sensible way I could see for them to be viable as a playable class would be to control a squad, and for that you'd want a seargent. Squad member death would pose a problem as regards re-inforcement, but I guess they could be surpressed or demoralised rather than killed outright, making rallying the squad similar to healing a pet.

The independent character route is harder to plot progression wise, but that would certainly culminate in the Commisaar.

Unfortunately judging from the clips I've seen so far they seem to be going for a stormtrooper type class, which is a pretty poor choice IMO since in no way is a stormtrooper on par with a marine.

Still it's too soon to judge, need more info!

Personally I'm looking forward to playing Eldar and Orks... Eldar because I just love the backstory and Orks to stomp sum ed.

Originally posted by quotheraving

Originally posted by r118644

 I know we have Imperium Black Templars for one thing and X for the other but ya know what i just want in? a Commissar class.

 

 No idea how they would implement it but i would love a Commissar. Again i have no idea how it would work but i feel like going with sects from the other Imperial sections might be fun and depending how they go with the enemey i would love to see if similar could be done with them.

Yeah I also wondered if they would do something like that, mainly because IG troopers are so weak compared to Marines (Eldar, Orks and Chaos all have troopers comparable in power to Marines,) that the only sensible way I could see for them to be viable as a playable class would be to control a squad, and for that you'd want a seargent. Squad member death would pose a problem as regards re-inforcement, but I guess they could be surpressed or demoralised rather than killed outright, making rallying the squad similar to healing a pet.

The independent character route is harder to plot progression wise, but that would certainly culminate in the Commisaar.

Unfortunately judging from the clips I've seen so far they seem to be going for a stormtrooper type class, which is a pretty poor choice IMO since in no way is a stormtrooper on par with a marine.

Still it's too soon to judge, need more info!

Personally I'm looking forward to playing Eldar and Orks... Eldar because I just love the backstory and Orks to stomp sum ed.

Keep in mind a couple things.

  Dont look to the tabletop to see how they are going to balance thigns in this game. The IG may be weaker in general but I dont think you have to be a commisar in IG to be a bad ass. This is where they're going to bend the most and it really doesnt bother me much provided they do it well. Just like in SWG, who is going to take out a Jedi, seriously. The power balancing should take gameplay into consideration before all else. However I dont tink they should exclude classes bescause they are weakerin the tabletop game. If they are cool, I hope they put them in. and IG are cool (the only way I would do empire as I cant bring myself to make a marine along with 8 million fanboys.)

There are a few directions they can go with this in regards to IG and/or orks. You can play a IG who is powerful like a veteran sargent or something, as I said it doesnt have t be commisar. You can alo play an IG specialist of some sort.. special forces or what have you. Moreover, a IG class that allows you to control a small squad of troppers would be bad ass. 

  Likewise, The orks could have a character class that controls a group of grunts or even grots, which  think would be awesome. These classes could behave like any pet class where the squad is summoned. Though I would prefer this to be a branch of a skill tree or something to that effect so If I wanted to make a bad ass sargent running around with a flamer and skull tattoos I an.

Originally posted by quotheraving

Originally posted by r118644

 I know we have Imperium Black Templars for one thing and X for the other but ya know what i just want in? a Commissar class.

 

 No idea how they would implement it but i would love a Commissar. Again i have no idea how it would work but i feel like going with sects from the other Imperial sections might be fun and depending how they go with the enemey i would love to see if similar could be done with them.

Yeah I also wondered if they would do something like that, mainly because IG troopers are so weak compared to Marines (Eldar, Orks and Chaos all have troopers comparable in power to Marines,) that the only sensible way I could see for them to be viable as a playable class would be to control a squad, and for that you'd want a seargent. Squad member death would pose a problem as regards re-inforcement, but I guess they could be surpressed or demoralised rather than killed outright, making rallying the squad similar to healing a pet.

The independent character route is harder to plot progression wise, but that would certainly culminate in the Commisaar.

Unfortunately judging from the clips I've seen so far they seem to be going for a stormtrooper type class, which is a pretty poor choice IMO since in no way is a stormtrooper on par with a marine.

Still it's too soon to judge, need more info!

Personally I'm looking forward to playing Eldar and Orks... Eldar because I just love the backstory and Orks to stomp sum ed.

 Guardsmen are jsut iconic to me. I think Imperium i get a mental image of guardsmen fighting, then marines whooping ass. I hope they can squeeze them into it and i am willign to wait and see. When i saw the Imperium trailer i discounted the guardsmen as NPC's but if Guardsmen are playable i am going to lose my mind.

Originally posted by Unicornicus

Originally posted by quotheraving

Originally posted by r118644

 I know we have Imperium Black Templars for one thing and X for the other but ya know what i just want in? a Commissar class.

 

 No idea how they would implement it but i would love a Commissar. Again i have no idea how it would work but i feel like going with sects from the other Imperial sections might be fun and depending how they go with the enemey i would love to see if similar could be done with them.

Yeah I also wondered if they would do something like that, mainly because IG troopers are so weak compared to Marines (Eldar, Orks and Chaos all have troopers comparable in power to Marines,) that the only sensible way I could see for them to be viable as a playable class would be to control a squad, and for that you'd want a seargent. Squad member death would pose a problem as regards re-inforcement, but I guess they could be surpressed or demoralised rather than killed outright, making rallying the squad similar to healing a pet.

The independent character route is harder to plot progression wise, but that would certainly culminate in the Commisaar.

Unfortunately judging from the clips I've seen so far they seem to be going for a stormtrooper type class, which is a pretty poor choice IMO since in no way is a stormtrooper on par with a marine.

Still it's too soon to judge, need more info!

Personally I'm looking forward to playing Eldar and Orks... Eldar because I just love the backstory and Orks to stomp sum ed.

Keep in mind a couple things.

  Dont look to the tabletop to see how they are going to balance thigns in this game. The IG may be weaker in general but I dont think you have to be a commisar in IG to be a bad ass. This is where there going to bend the most and it really doesnt bother me much provided they do it well. Just like in SWG, who is going to take out a Jedi, seriously. The power balancing should take gameplay into consideration before all else. However I dont tink they should exclude classes bescause they are weakerin the tabletop game. If they are cool, I hope they put them in. and IG are cool (the only way I would do empire as I cant bring myself to make a marine along with 8 million fanboys.)

There are a few directions they can go with this in regards to IG and/or orks. You can play a IG who is powerful like a veteran sargent or something, as I said it doesnt have t be commisar. You can alo play an IG specialist of some sort.. special forces or what have you. Moreover, a IG class that allows you to control a small squad of troppers would be bad ass. 

  Likewise, The orks could have a character class that controls a group of grunts or even grots, which  think would be awesome. These classes could behave like any pet class where the squad is summoned. Though I would prefer this to be a branch of a skill tree or something to that effect so If I wanted to make a bad ass sargent running around with a flamer and skull tattoos I an.

 

Well since the tabletop game reflects the fluff where else should we look to judge the relative power of troop types in the 40k universe?

Now I could compare wargear and stat lines and with a little back of the envelope maths demonstrate that Veteran Cadian shock troops have Sergeants that would barely be able to take a single marine even if they ganged up on em  3 on 1... Or I could rely on authoritative lexicanum quotes such as "Whilst Guardsmen are hardly the equals of Space Marines, fighting neither with the advantages of genetic enhancement or the most powerful personal weaponry". Or even rely upon pure fluff and remind you that the IG sergeant is a battle hardened human with the standard (substandard) issue weaponry and a flak vest while the Space marine is a 7 foot tall genetically enhanced superman armed with the very best weapons and clad in powered armor. But that would be too much like work.

It just comes down to the fluff, in other words the WH40k background, so if that is ignored in making the game what would that mean?

If this game abandons the fluff and chooses to make an individual imperial guardsmen able to take down a Marine then I for one will laugh in the developers faces, LAUGH I TELLS YA!

Edit - Now a squad of guardsmen would be a different matter

Originally posted by quotheraving

Originally posted by Unicornicus

Originally posted by quotheraving

Originally posted by r118644

 I know we have Imperium Black Templars for one thing and X for the other but ya know what i just want in? a Commissar class.

 

 No idea how they would implement it but i would love a Commissar. Again i have no idea how it would work but i feel like going with sects from the other Imperial sections might be fun and depending how they go with the enemey i would love to see if similar could be done with them.

Yeah I also wondered if they would do something like that, mainly because IG troopers are so weak compared to Marines (Eldar, Orks and Chaos all have troopers comparable in power to Marines,) that the only sensible way I could see for them to be viable as a playable class would be to control a squad, and for that you'd want a seargent. Squad member death would pose a problem as regards re-inforcement, but I guess they could be surpressed or demoralised rather than killed outright, making rallying the squad similar to healing a pet.

The independent character route is harder to plot progression wise, but that would certainly culminate in the Commisaar.

Unfortunately judging from the clips I've seen so far they seem to be going for a stormtrooper type class, which is a pretty poor choice IMO since in no way is a stormtrooper on par with a marine.

Still it's too soon to judge, need more info!

Personally I'm looking forward to playing Eldar and Orks... Eldar because I just love the backstory and Orks to stomp sum ed.

Keep in mind a couple things.

  Dont look to the tabletop to see how they are going to balance thigns in this game. The IG may be weaker in general but I dont think you have to be a commisar in IG to be a bad ass. This is where there going to bend the most and it really doesnt bother me much provided they do it well. Just like in SWG, who is going to take out a Jedi, seriously. The power balancing should take gameplay into consideration before all else. However I dont tink they should exclude classes bescause they are weakerin the tabletop game. If they are cool, I hope they put them in. and IG are cool (the only way I would do empire as I cant bring myself to make a marine along with 8 million fanboys.)

There are a few directions they can go with this in regards to IG and/or orks. You can play a IG who is powerful like a veteran sargent or something, as I said it doesnt have t be commisar. You can alo play an IG specialist of some sort.. special forces or what have you. Moreover, a IG class that allows you to control a small squad of troppers would be bad ass. 

  Likewise, The orks could have a character class that controls a group of grunts or even grots, which  think would be awesome. These classes could behave like any pet class where the squad is summoned. Though I would prefer this to be a branch of a skill tree or something to that effect so If I wanted to make a bad ass sargent running around with a flamer and skull tattoos I an.

 

Well since the tabletop game reflects the fluff where else should we look to judge the relative power of troop types in the 40k universe?

If this game abandons the fluff and chooses to make an individual imperial guardsmen able to take down a Marine then I for one will laugh in the developers faces, LAUGH I TELLS YA!

 

These 2 lines are funny, since the tabletop certainly does NOT represent the fluff at all, seeing as how in teh tabletop a guardsman COULD take down a marine one on one.

Hell ive lost terminators to strength 3 fire before.

Originally posted by warmaster670

Originally posted by quotheraving

Originally posted by Unicornicus

Originally posted by quotheraving

Originally posted by r118644

 I know we have Imperium Black Templars for one thing and X for the other but ya know what i just want in? a Commissar class.

 

 No idea how they would implement it but i would love a Commissar. Again i have no idea how it would work but i feel like going with sects from the other Imperial sections might be fun and depending how they go with the enemey i would love to see if similar could be done with them.

Yeah I also wondered if they would do something like that, mainly because IG troopers are so weak compared to Marines (Eldar, Orks and Chaos all have troopers comparable in power to Marines,) that the only sensible way I could see for them to be viable as a playable class would be to control a squad, and for that you'd want a seargent. Squad member death would pose a problem as regards re-inforcement, but I guess they could be surpressed or demoralised rather than killed outright, making rallying the squad similar to healing a pet.

The independent character route is harder to plot progression wise, but that would certainly culminate in the Commisaar.

Unfortunately judging from the clips I've seen so far they seem to be going for a stormtrooper type class, which is a pretty poor choice IMO since in no way is a stormtrooper on par with a marine.

Still it's too soon to judge, need more info!

Personally I'm looking forward to playing Eldar and Orks... Eldar because I just love the backstory and Orks to stomp sum ed.

Keep in mind a couple things.

  Dont look to the tabletop to see how they are going to balance thigns in this game. The IG may be weaker in general but I dont think you have to be a commisar in IG to be a bad ass. This is where there going to bend the most and it really doesnt bother me much provided they do it well. Just like in SWG, who is going to take out a Jedi, seriously. The power balancing should take gameplay into consideration before all else. However I dont tink they should exclude classes bescause they are weakerin the tabletop game. If they are cool, I hope they put them in. and IG are cool (the only way I would do empire as I cant bring myself to make a marine along with 8 million fanboys.)

There are a few directions they can go with this in regards to IG and/or orks. You can play a IG who is powerful like a veteran sargent or something, as I said it doesnt have t be commisar. You can alo play an IG specialist of some sort.. special forces or what have you. Moreover, a IG class that allows you to control a small squad of troppers would be bad ass. 

  Likewise, The orks could have a character class that controls a group of grunts or even grots, which  think would be awesome. These classes could behave like any pet class where the squad is summoned. Though I would prefer this to be a branch of a skill tree or something to that effect so If I wanted to make a bad ass sargent running around with a flamer and skull tattoos I an.

 

Well since the tabletop game reflects the fluff where else should we look to judge the relative power of troop types in the 40k universe?

If this game abandons the fluff and chooses to make an individual imperial guardsmen able to take down a Marine then I for one will laugh in the developers faces, LAUGH I TELLS YA!

 

These 2 lines are funny, since the tabletop certainly does NOT represent the fluff at all, seeing as how in teh tabletop a guardsman COULD take down a marine one on one.

 

Hell ive lost terminators to strength 3 fire before.

Oh yes it's called probability.

There is always a SLIM chance that a guardsman can take a marine, but using that as an argument to say that a space marine character and an imperial guardsman should be balanced in power, as indeed they would be in an mmo, is faceteous in the extreme...

Don't tell me you thought I meant anything other than that?

Originally posted by quotheraving

Originally posted by warmaster670

Originally posted by quotheraving

Originally posted by Unicornicus

Originally posted by quotheraving

Originally posted by r118644

 I know we have Imperium Black Templars for one thing and X for the other but ya know what i just want in? a Commissar class.

 

 No idea how they would implement it but i would love a Commissar. Again i have no idea how it would work but i feel like going with sects from the other Imperial sections might be fun and depending how they go with the enemey i would love to see if similar could be done with them.

Yeah I also wondered if they would do something like that, mainly because IG troopers are so weak compared to Marines (Eldar, Orks and Chaos all have troopers comparable in power to Marines,) that the only sensible way I could see for them to be viable as a playable class would be to control a squad, and for that you'd want a seargent. Squad member death would pose a problem as regards re-inforcement, but I guess they could be surpressed or demoralised rather than killed outright, making rallying the squad similar to healing a pet.

The independent character route is harder to plot progression wise, but that would certainly culminate in the Commisaar.

Unfortunately judging from the clips I've seen so far they seem to be going for a stormtrooper type class, which is a pretty poor choice IMO since in no way is a stormtrooper on par with a marine.

Still it's too soon to judge, need more info!

Personally I'm looking forward to playing Eldar and Orks... Eldar because I just love the backstory and Orks to stomp sum ed.

Keep in mind a couple things.

  Dont look to the tabletop to see how they are going to balance thigns in this game. The IG may be weaker in general but I dont think you have to be a commisar in IG to be a bad ass. This is where there going to bend the most and it really doesnt bother me much provided they do it well. Just like in SWG, who is going to take out a Jedi, seriously. The power balancing should take gameplay into consideration before all else. However I dont tink they should exclude classes bescause they are weakerin the tabletop game. If they are cool, I hope they put them in. and IG are cool (the only way I would do empire as I cant bring myself to make a marine along with 8 million fanboys.)

There are a few directions they can go with this in regards to IG and/or orks. You can play a IG who is powerful like a veteran sargent or something, as I said it doesnt have t be commisar. You can alo play an IG specialist of some sort.. special forces or what have you. Moreover, a IG class that allows you to control a small squad of troppers would be bad ass. 

  Likewise, The orks could have a character class that controls a group of grunts or even grots, which  think would be awesome. These classes could behave like any pet class where the squad is summoned. Though I would prefer this to be a branch of a skill tree or something to that effect so If I wanted to make a bad ass sargent running around with a flamer and skull tattoos I an.

 

Well since the tabletop game reflects the fluff where else should we look to judge the relative power of troop types in the 40k universe?

If this game abandons the fluff and chooses to make an individual imperial guardsmen able to take down a Marine then I for one will laugh in the developers faces, LAUGH I TELLS YA!

 

These 2 lines are funny, since the tabletop certainly does NOT represent the fluff at all, seeing as how in teh tabletop a guardsman COULD take down a marine one on one.

 

Hell ive lost terminators to strength 3 fire before.

Don't tell me you thought I meant anything other than that?

What else would "able to take down" mean other than able to take down?

In the tabletop marins arnt that much stronger than guardsmen, certainly not anywhere near the amount they would be in fluff, where 1 marines worth 100 guardsmen.

Originally posted by warmaster670

Originally posted by quotheraving

Originally posted by warmaster670

Originally posted by quotheraving

Originally posted by Unicornicus

Originally posted by quotheraving

Originally posted by r118644

 I know we have Imperium Black Templars for one thing and X for the other but ya know what i just want in? a Commissar class.

 

 No idea how they would implement it but i would love a Commissar. Again i have no idea how it would work but i feel like going with sects from the other Imperial sections might be fun and depending how they go with the enemey i would love to see if similar could be done with them.

Yeah I also wondered if they would do something like that, mainly because IG troopers are so weak compared to Marines (Eldar, Orks and Chaos all have troopers comparable in power to Marines,) that the only sensible way I could see for them to be viable as a playable class would be to control a squad, and for that you'd want a seargent. Squad member death would pose a problem as regards re-inforcement, but I guess they could be surpressed or demoralised rather than killed outright, making rallying the squad similar to healing a pet.

The independent character route is harder to plot progression wise, but that would certainly culminate in the Commisaar.

Unfortunately judging from the clips I've seen so far they seem to be going for a stormtrooper type class, which is a pretty poor choice IMO since in no way is a stormtrooper on par with a marine.

Still it's too soon to judge, need more info!

Personally I'm looking forward to playing Eldar and Orks... Eldar because I just love the backstory and Orks to stomp sum ed.

Keep in mind a couple things.

  Dont look to the tabletop to see how they are going to balance thigns in this game. The IG may be weaker in general but I dont think you have to be a commisar in IG to be a bad ass. This is where there going to bend the most and it really doesnt bother me much provided they do it well. Just like in SWG, who is going to take out a Jedi, seriously. The power balancing should take gameplay into consideration before all else. However I dont tink they should exclude classes bescause they are weakerin the tabletop game. If they are cool, I hope they put them in. and IG are cool (the only way I would do empire as I cant bring myself to make a marine along with 8 million fanboys.)

There are a few directions they can go with this in regards to IG and/or orks. You can play a IG who is powerful like a veteran sargent or something, as I said it doesnt have t be commisar. You can alo play an IG specialist of some sort.. special forces or what have you. Moreover, a IG class that allows you to control a small squad of troppers would be bad ass. 

  Likewise, The orks could have a character class that controls a group of grunts or even grots, which  think would be awesome. These classes could behave like any pet class where the squad is summoned. Though I would prefer this to be a branch of a skill tree or something to that effect so If I wanted to make a bad ass sargent running around with a flamer and skull tattoos I an.

 

Well since the tabletop game reflects the fluff where else should we look to judge the relative power of troop types in the 40k universe?

If this game abandons the fluff and chooses to make an individual imperial guardsmen able to take down a Marine then I for one will laugh in the developers faces, LAUGH I TELLS YA!

 

These 2 lines are funny, since the tabletop certainly does NOT represent the fluff at all, seeing as how in teh tabletop a guardsman COULD take down a marine one on one.

 

Hell ive lost terminators to strength 3 fire before.

Don't tell me you thought I meant anything other than that?

What else would "able to take down" mean other than able to take down?

 

In the tabletop marins arnt that much stronger than guardsmen, certainly not anywhere near the amount they would be in fluff, where 1 marines worth 100 guardsmen.

Sigh

What I clearly meant was that they should not be of comparable power to (and thus able to take down a Marine with a 50/50 chance), not that they should never be able to take one ... EVER!

You can tell this from simply reading my post and taking in the context, rather than choosing a phrase and quoting it out of context.

But I forget myself, this is the internet and there are always people who will have a problem with simple things like context, I'll be sure to use shorter words in future.. happy

 According to fluff we have an issue because Guardsmen use a las-gun which is not as powerful as a bolter, wear flak armor which is no where near as durable as Marine armor, and i would not blame them ignoring playable guardsmen. COmmissars, Karskin Stormtroopers(and saddly regulaer storm troopers), sergeants, heavy weapon squads. A lot can be done while sticking to the fluff but in the name of balance guardsmen(standard trooper) should be repalced with strom trooper for that line. It would make more sense than regular troopers.

 Yes i want them to stick to the fluff and GW is likely looking over their shoulder from 20 different directions; but even in fluff guardsmen can get lucky.

Well since the tabletop game reflects the fluff where else should we look to judge the relative power of troop types in the 40k universe?

Now I could compare wargear and stat lines and with a little back of the envelope maths demonstrate that Veteran Cadian shock troops have Sergeants that would barely be able to take a single marine even if they ganged up on em  3 on 1... Or I could rely on authoritative lexicanum quotes such as "Whilst Guardsmen are hardly the equals of Space Marines, fighting neither with the advantages of genetic enhancement or the most powerful personal weaponry". Or even rely upon pure fluff and remind you that the IG sergeant is a battle hardened human with the standard (substandard) issue weaponry and a flak vest while the Space marine is a 7 foot tall genetically enhanced superman armed with the very best weapons and clad in powered armor. But that would be too much like work.

It just comes down to the fluff, in other words the WH40k background, so if that is ignored in making the game what would that mean?

If this game abandons the fluff and chooses to make an individual imperial guardsmen able to take down a Marine then I for one will laugh in the developers faces, LAUGH I TELLS YA!

Edit - Now a squad of guardsmen would be a different matter

Not that we know whatt he final character classes are, but prepare to laugh. It doesnt bother me at all on the other hand, Just like the Jedi in SWG being able to die to a storm trooper didnt bother me.

A thought;

Marines should/would be able to two-shot guardsmen with alarming regularity. That's guardsmen's weaknesses really... Would it mean they'd be unloved as a unit? Doubt it. Lots of fans love the "i'm an ordinary guy getting mauled" archtype.

Also, Guardsmen can easily fit into a rather excellent role related to Heavy Weapons. Their las-guns aren't going to do diddly squat to a marine but then, it shouldn't have to. Abilities for mortar fire AOE skills etc should really help them out. Plus they really have the opportunity to fill out the support role in game mechanics through fire-support etc that while a Marine might not notice cos he's so butch in the first place, the player would notice the difference when say, they fight solo.

There's plenty of potential obviously. But on topic regarding the Two Factions. It wouldn't really work, WAR did it and we all know how that went. I can really see an IG+Marines "Order" side for sure and certainly a Traitor Guards + Chaos Marines "Disorder" side. There's scope for inclusion of Eldar and Dark Eldar but I've no idea why Orks would be happy to ally (shouldn't they be just happy to stick things regardless of who you are...) nor Nids and Necrons for most the part or Tau really...

Whatever the case I hope when they make the game they provide instanced opening levels for the first 5 levels perhaps that is exclusive to your race and natural alliance (i.e. Marines and IG can perhaps share the same zone and quest hubs but it has to reflect the standings so an IG would be really cautious of asking a Marine for help over something trivial but perhaps bossy towards another IG for example.)

The whole point of the first-five instance would be to show the build up of your own race's personal story in the game and would have early skirmishes and battles against ALL races culminating in a final event which, explains in depth the nature of the alliance that has been formed. Of course you could stretch it out to 10 levels if they want RVR/PVP whatever to start at level 10. This way they have one solid PVE Chain detailing the background/history/problems for the respective race + the nature and how-so regarding the alliances and leaves the floor free for the 'first' joint or 'first independent' skirmish type RVR/PVP that if taken with a solid PVE quest line that is not dependant too much on the amount of players being around could actually be an epic PVE-storyline wrapped around intense scenarios and independent or alliance based pvping up until end-game.

If that upsets some of the PVP centric-fans I don't apologise, I think both PVE and PVP need to be extremely tight and well written and joined together. The amount of people I can remember who joined WAR for the lore and persisted regardless of whether the lore was butchered or not only to find they couldn't fill out the excellent tomes due to Public Quests being deserted (for example) because everyone was basically hogging the skirmishes all day long was a bummer. (In fact if they are going the PVP/Realm wars routes I'd seriously consider just making one city and dumping everyone in it and just have them queue for their RvR with absolutely no PVE content at all because that's how it gets played in the end.)

Have any of the races/classes been confirmed? I seen a trailer a while back showing Chaos and Space Marines. Anything else though? I'm hoping for Necrons but I'd settle for at least getting to play an Ork (can never get enough WAAAGH!).

only 1 has been confirmed: the impirium of man. The other 2 that are obviously gleened from the videos and interviews are orks and chaos. Beyond that, we will have to wait for this years e3 or longer to get any new info. I am guessing that is where their next reveal will happen, though I sincerely hope they also let us know a little bit more about the game. 

Just under 2 months to go....

tic...toc...tic...toc.

With all the respect to the different opinions on thsi topic. I back up 100%  3 FACTIONS FOR DMO.

Originally posted by Unicornicus

 

Well since the tabletop game reflects the fluff where else should we look to judge the relative power of troop types in the 40k universe?

Now I could compare wargear and stat lines and with a little back of the envelope maths demonstrate that Veteran Cadian shock troops have Sergeants that would barely be able to take a single marine even if they ganged up on em  3 on 1... Or I could rely on authoritative lexicanum quotes such as "Whilst Guardsmen are hardly the equals of Space Marines, fighting neither with the advantages of genetic enhancement or the most powerful personal weaponry". Or even rely upon pure fluff and remind you that the IG sergeant is a battle hardened human with the standard (substandard) issue weaponry and a flak vest while the Space marine is a 7 foot tall genetically enhanced superman armed with the very best weapons and clad in powered armor. But that would be too much like work.

 

It just comes down to the fluff, in other words the WH40k background, so if that is ignored in making the game what would that mean?

If this game abandons the fluff and chooses to make an individual imperial guardsmen able to take down a Marine then I for one will laugh in the developers faces, LAUGH I TELLS YA!

 

 

Edit - Now a squad of guardsmen would be a different matter

 

Not that we know whatt he final character classes are, but prepare to laugh. It doesnt bother me at all on the other hand, Just like the Jedi in SWG being able to die to a storm trooper didnt bother me.

The fluff is definitely 2ndary to the gameplay. So how can that contradiction be squared if classes are trampling all over the fluff/lore?

Basically if you take the creme-de-la-creme of the WH40K universe along with other playable characters; they may be the most popular individual classes (I want Space Marines! Eldar Warlocks! ie leaders and so forth) you are going to find that to create an "even playing-field" or at least a game with challenge, your hero could be shot down ie they have to be less omnipotent and come down to earth a bit. That does buck the lore a lot.

Instead, what I propose, if the devs can avoid being greedy, is picking lower mid-level types who may not be as glamorous but who have to earn their spurs; feels realistic to be shot by lowly troopers eg Imperial Guards file n rank and also who will need to have players forming groups or using large machines/vehicles to take on the truly monstrously powerful Spacemarines, Eldar Exarch Champ of Isha, Nurgle Messiah and so forth... .

That's my proposal.

Second proposal: 3+ factions otherwise 2 factions like war they cannot resist the creme-de-la-creme classes being cherry picked. The best classes should be rare etc/ allow the game world to grow around the ordinary soldier. That's where the game grows into. Just some thoughts, such a let-down with WAR is my reasoning for this.