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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » PvE without a Tank System/Mechanics is simply a Zerg Fest! Prove me wrong otherwise

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117 posts found
  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 5965

 
OP  8/08/10 4:33:37 PM#1

I say PvE without a tanking system is nothing more than a Zerg Fest.

  spades07

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/14/08
Posts: 844

8/08/10 4:35:49 PM#2

that box you live in is mighty small. ;p

  twstdstrange

Novice Member

Joined: 6/19/10
Posts: 485

8/08/10 4:37:19 PM#3

Zerg fest sounds more fun than having that arrogant tank in your party.

  knapu

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/03/09
Posts: 131

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
So is a lot.
-Albert Einstein

8/08/10 4:44:06 PM#4

Well ive been thining about a game mechanic without healer tank 3 dps  groups etz or more for raid.

And it would be pretty easy , simpel items  with hp leech in % of dmg  or some skills within a class .

And the boss fights itself could be very difficult and fun where each player would have difrent task to do change with each other  in those task becouse of some debuff or something il could think of tons of  nice things where we wouldnt have to wait for a tank or healer to go into a dungeon.

And this kind a game would be nice  .

I am the punishment of God...
If you had not committed great sins,
God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you
— Genghis Khan

  User Deleted
8/08/10 4:45:06 PM#5
Originally posted by MMOExposed

I say PvE without a tanking system is nothing more than a Zerg Fest.

 

 I agree with you but that is what a lot of todays players want.  Just watch most of the massive FPS today.  There is little to no teamwork.  Just a bunch of people running around killing as many people as possible before they die.   

  knapu

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/03/09
Posts: 131

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
So is a lot.
-Albert Einstein

8/08/10 5:31:35 PM#6
Originally posted by Elirion
Originally posted by MMOExposed

I say PvE without a tanking system is nothing more than a Zerg Fest.

 

 I agree with you but that is what a lot of todays players want.  Just watch most of the massive FPS today.  There is little to no teamwork.  Just a bunch of people running around killing as many people as possible before they die.   

Both of u are just simpel minded <.<

I am the punishment of God...
If you had not committed great sins,
God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you
— Genghis Khan

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4573

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

8/08/10 5:38:31 PM#7

some people don't want to play dps.

 

aka rp a mass-murderer. where do these people go?

  QSatu

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/14/06
Posts: 1765

8/08/10 5:46:12 PM#8

Guild Wars doesn't have tanks. And there is a limit to 8 person party. So zerging is simply not possible there and GW has one of the better comabt systems. Wow a little common sense wouldn't hurt op.

  mmoguy43

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/31/09
Posts: 2300

8/08/10 5:52:25 PM#9
Originally posted by twstdstrange

Zerg fest sounds more fun than having that arrogant tank in your party.

 

It does. I can recall so many of those tanks that would drop group in a hissy fit about anything to force your group to disband or wait an hour looking for a tank.

 

Having no tank system you end up relying on playing keep away from the aggro'd mob and stay out of LOS until someone else picks it up. It could be fun and it would be different.

Let's build the ultimate MMO 1 feature at a time
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/398555/page/1

  twstdstrange

Novice Member

Joined: 6/19/10
Posts: 485

8/08/10 6:07:36 PM#10
Originally posted by mmoguy43
Originally posted by twstdstrange

Zerg fest sounds more fun than having that arrogant tank in your party.

 

It does. I can recall so many of those tanks that would drop group in a hissy fit about anything to force your group to disband or wait an hour looking for a tank.

 

Having no tank system you end up relying on playing keep away from the aggro'd mob and stay out of LOS until someone else picks it up. It could be fun and it would be different.

 

I would know everything there is to know about arrogant tanks. I am one! =^.^=

Well, I try not to be, though I probably come off as one because I always bark orders to the lackluster Zergling DPS players who don't seem to know the concept of threat, or how to understand the phrase "Don't AoE for at least four seconds after I drop consecration." and then complaing when they pull mobs.

I then kindly remind them my qeue time is five seconds while theirs can be up to fifteen minutes.

I have a short fuse at times when dealing with... Incompetent players. Especially Hunters... Bloody Hunters...

  tazarconan

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/03/07
Posts: 1022

8/08/10 6:08:00 PM#11

I had a huge conversation about this matter with some rl friends the other day.

I have reasons to believe that such a system could be way better than the usual tank and spank wow/style tanking system. Let me explain. I ll take as example ddo online .Tanking in ddo is something misty. There are tanking styles players paladins,warriors with shields and builds that support  survivalability of the player and also a taunt . But there is the style of the combat and the combat mechanics that u almost never see all mobs being tanked by the tank. One of the reasons is that there are many sudden encounters where 1 mob spwns next to the mage 2 in front 1-2 from left side and 1-2 from right side and all these mobs u have to fight them by tanking them at least for some seconds by almost everyone in the party.

Such situations raise adrenaline keeps u tight and alert and ofc if the combat system is actually working its way more fun and intresting than the casual tank system.Combat is becoming that way more intresting and fun (that depends on player's taste cause many ppl nowdays want always to win easilly without the need to actually fight hard or think carefully to win something). Also that way u dont just put all your talents for max dps but you have to think carefully to build a character that is also having some good standards of survival (tough to kill).

And thats one of the more intresting things also in ddo many options for the character build feats skills extra feats racial feats etc. and its also something id like to see in more and more mmorpg's that are coming a deep character advancement system ..something more than just 3 talent trees.

  Antipathy

Novice Member

Joined: 3/29/06
Posts: 1371

8/08/10 8:16:58 PM#12

Tanking is a very simple form of teamwork that is easy for most players to understand and fit in with.

 

There are other examples of teamwork, and how it can be used by games to make encounters - for example, combination moves, or skills that require special timing or team positioning. However, many of these other forms of teamwork suffer from simple flaws:

 

1) If the teamwork is easy to execute and repeatable, then encounters risk becoming trivial.

2) If the teamwork is difficult to achieve, then many groups will struggle, and players will leave to find other games they are more successful at. So the game ends up being niche.

 

Tank and spank has the advantage that groups can successfully emply teamwork, even if a few members of the group are below average players. It offers "something for everyone", allowing people of a variety of different personalities and ability levels to work together, in such a way that they all feel they are being challenged.

  uquipu

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/14/09
Posts: 1538

8/08/10 8:47:53 PM#13

The tank slot appeals to a certain personality type. They have a need to feel important.
.
A good tank can carry an entire group.
.
What are these people going to do if you remove the tank slot from encounters?

Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren

  User Deleted
8/08/10 9:28:15 PM#14
Originally posted by uquipu

The tank slot appeals to a certain personality type. They have a need to feel important.
.
A good tank can carry an entire group.
.
What are these people going to do if you remove the tank slot from encounters?

I tank for one real reason, Because no one else does. I also hate the chaos of zerging.

 

And I love the trinity system for mmos there is nothing wrong with it at all, if you hate it then maybe MMOs aren't your thing.

 

No trinity at all in an mmo is like a first person shooter without guns, yeah it can be don't but its not as fun.

  twstdstrange

Novice Member

Joined: 6/19/10
Posts: 485

8/08/10 9:30:23 PM#15
Originally posted by uquipu

The tank slot appeals to a certain personality type. They have a need to feel important.
.
A good tank can carry an entire group.
.
What are these people going to do if you remove the tank slot from encounters?

 

A possible solution would be to allow the inclusion of tank characters, but not make them exactly necessary unless the group wants one or the situation specifically would call for one.

I think a group should be made up of anything, and players shouldn't be inclined to choose the player's class over the player herself.

As far as grouping in WoW goes, the general tank consensus is Paladin or go home.

If you were putting together a group of friends to play with, wouldn't you rather say "Let's take John [a DPS], he knows his stuff, besides he's a riot in vent."

Instead of, "Let's lurk general chat for some random tank that we can pretend to like for forty five minutes until we get our loot and drop group."

  Warmaker

Novice Member

Joined: 5/04/07
Posts: 2233

8/08/10 9:34:07 PM#16
Originally posted by spades07

that box you live in is mighty small. ;p

 LOL!

"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)

  Palebane

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/04
Posts: 3247

8/08/10 9:38:36 PM#17

Tanks are good for the types of MMORPG games that are popular right now. Having to pull mobs and soak up damage lend's itself to having a role for that. Saying that all MMORPGs have to have mechanics that would require a tank, to be anything more than a zergfest, is silly in my opinion.

 

There were no tanks in any of the fantasy books or movies. There were warriors, but they didn't have to worry about aggro control, if I remember right. There were some circumstances where the warrior intercepted an enemy to save his companion's life, but does anyone remember Gandalf swinging that staff around?

Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.

  Daitengu

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/03/08
Posts: 445

8/08/10 9:49:08 PM#18
Originally posted by MMOExposed

I say PvE without a tanking system is nothing more than a Zerg Fest.

 

I've kited many a group mob solo.  It's a skill I learned in Everquest that serves me everytime I pick up a ranged class.  Even 100% dps groups where I had to kite while the rest of the group nuked or followed whacking mobs from behind.

 

The margin for error is small and practice with a particular team is needed, but it's doable depending on the MMO and mobs.

 

Cry some more.

  Neiko

Novice Member

Joined: 8/07/06
Posts: 630

8/08/10 9:51:30 PM#19

I love being unkillable in rpgs. But I hate the aggro control that comes with it in mmos. I liked how DDO had it. I'd run in front as a pally, grab majority of the aggro and chop things up. Things would go around but people could hand adds. It wasn't "OH CRAP I GOT SOMETHING ON ME BLEHHHHH" That and hack n slash rpgs like d2, where some classes could go toe to toe with big bosses (Barbarian/pally) but weren't considered useless in dps.

---------------

  Quirhid

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5506

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

8/08/10 10:46:14 PM#20

Guild Wars. 'nuff said.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

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