Trending Games | ArcheAge | Guild Wars 2 | Destiny | World of Warcraft

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,856,390 Users Online:0
Games:740  Posts:6,239,678
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

News & Features Discussion  » General: Game Designers Address Misconceptions About PvP

4 Pages 1 2 3 4 » Search
70 posts found
  SBFord

Associate Editor - News Manager

Joined: 6/28/10
Posts: 13426

 
OP  8/02/10 8:20:18 AM#1

In his latest article for MMORPG.com, writer Michael Lafferty spends time with Funcom's Craig Morrison, Turbine's Jared “Kelsan” Pruett, Perfect World's Jon Belliss, and Realtime Worlds' EJ Moreland in a round table discussion about the misconceptions and 'fear' surrounding PvP. It's a fascinating look at the age-old (relatively speaking) argument for and against PvP and one that you won't want to miss.

Standing on the receiving end of a brutal, well-orchestrated beat-down in PvP (player-versus-player) can be a frustrating experience. Ask those who prefer not to partake in PvP and that is the main reason likely to be voiced. For some, it is the fear of failure that sparks decisions not to indulge in that particular aspect of MMOs.

Read the entire round table discussion about PvP then weigh in with your thoughts on our forums.

Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
Follow me on Twitter: @MMORPGMom

  kalimah

Novice Member

Joined: 5/22/06
Posts: 52

LONG LIVE DAOC!

8/02/10 8:24:32 AM#2

We can clone animals... we can splice DNA... we can travel to outter space.. we can augment reality... BUT WE CAN'T MAKE A PVP GAME WORTHWHILE?!?!   Blasphomey!

  cheyane

Elite Member

Joined: 7/17/09
Posts: 2390

8/02/10 8:42:47 AM#3

For me consent PvP is the only way I will play. After being harassed and yes it does only take a couple of bad encounters to make one wary I will not be camped. I think you can say that these instances are rare and you might be right but that is your point of view. Your experience you cannot speak for everyone. While it may be true that 90 % of the playerbase never get camped if I get camped I will form my own opinion.

I have PvPed in a few games and in Lineage right from the time I made my character and logged in I was attacked. I was unable to do anything. I cannot play in games like that I have absolutely no fun. I want to play where I decide when I want to PvP, I make the decision.  If I cannot do that I won't play. No loss you say fine then.

The other thing I absolutely hate is cheating,hacking and gear advantage like the level 60 enchantments in wow bgs on level 19's. Any of these will prevent me from PvPing.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

  Harpy_Lady

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/06
Posts: 137

8/02/10 9:14:06 AM#4

Win or lose, II dislike PVP immensely. Nothing will change that. I don't like the playstyle. It's the same as playing sports to me. Which I also dislike. There is absolutely nothing that will change my dislike for PVP.

That said, if others want to PVP, go for it. Just don't force it on the rest of us.

  Cecropia

Gumshoe

Joined: 3/06/09
Posts: 3274

Poacher killer.

8/02/10 9:33:50 AM#5
Originally posted by Harpy_Lady

Win or lose, II dislike PVP immensely. Nothing will change that. I don't like the playstyle. It's the same as playing sports to me. Which I also dislike. There is absolutely nothing that will change my dislike for PVP.

That said, if others want to PVP, go for it. Just don't force it on the rest of us.

 I wonder if others of the anti-PVP camp share this trait?

Anyways, that was a great read that many here on these forums really need to take the time to fully digest.

“The human mind is obviously the most potent tool anyone has at their disposal,” Morrison said. “I have found down the years that the best PvP players are those who want to learn, and learn how to master the systems available. So rather than nerd-rage when they get destroyed by another player, and presume some hacks were at play, they immediately want to learn how the player did that to them. Both so they can understand how to counter it in the future, and possibly learn to do it themselves. Human ingenuity is almost limitless, and the best PvP players take advantage of that, learning how they can tempt opponents into foolish moves, or traps, and learn how to time their attacks to their maximum advantage.

“Watch those who are good at PvP carefully, learn from them, and don’t be afraid to ask questions and be willing learn.”

So true.

"Chuck's a good fighter but he's a UFC fighter... this is Pride." - Quinton Rampage Jackson
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  yyiri

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/25/09
Posts: 33

8/02/10 9:35:44 AM#6

Rule-based PvP such as WoW is horrible. And yes, players do want progression from PvP too. To minimize any imbalances caused by the rewards, make it such that the rewards have a small impact on the avatar, like DAoC's realm abilities..

  MumboJumbo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 3170

Veni, Vidi, Converti

8/02/10 9:42:45 AM#7

Whoa! Very interesting discussion on PvP.

A few choice quotes:

"" “The human mind is obviously the most potent tool anyone has at their disposal,” ""

"Situational awareness is critical, especially in more open or free-form PvP settings – knowing who and what is around you at all times is crucial."

"But when that advantage distorts the balance, it’s up to the developers to impose limitations.”

“I believe the beauty of PvP is that it is real people competing against real people,” said Moreland, “there will always be emergent tactics that developers don’t expect. Unexpected locations that are unassailable, different combinations of abilities"

“On the other hand, if the design of your game is limited to more constructed and well defined forms of PVP (such as mini-games or arena systems with set rules) you tend to limit the possibilities for that kind of emergent gameplay to surface [open world pvp]"

Not a very good pvp'er personally, but the sort of danger, randomness and keeping your situational awareness about you that pvp in openworld can bring is for me the most authentic experience of existing in a dangerous fantasy/sci-fi environment etc. That and multiple faction battle over resources to create wars-on-all-fronts with other players that have repercussions for capturing resources is the ideal. Oc, taking a step back into the "adventuring life" away from the bloody wars and doing some PvE is the ideal balance.
 

  skeaser

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/13/07
Posts: 3689

Don't die mad, just die.

8/02/10 9:42:53 AM#8

I'm a big fan of PvP, in FPS games. In an RPG I want an epic adventure against creatures/beasts/gods of legends. I want to team with my friends to conquer seemingly impassable odds. If I want to kill Jimmy over and over again I'll pop in Halo.

Not to say I don't enjoy a friendly duel from time to time, I just am not big into the battlegrounds/arenas and I really don't like open PvP in a PvE game (I'm looking at you AoC). Not because it doesn't fit the game, but because their are players who would rather fight each other without consent than let them experience the content.


A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.
-Friedrich Nietzsche

  Palebane

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/04
Posts: 3247

8/02/10 9:42:55 AM#9

I think game design that focuses on the individual (especially FFA PVP in any form) lends itself to the "I will not participate if there is no reward" mentality. When there is nothing worth fighting over there should be a reward for doing it, because otherwise what is the point?

 

I think a clever game designer could come up with a system that encourages not just group play, but actual camaraderie; a reason to put aside your individual differences and take one for the team should the opportunity arise. A system that encourages loyalty and respect among teams would be far more memorable than running the same scenario 100 times just to get a new sword, in my opinion; a system that allows non-PvP combat oriented players to still participate and help out a cause.

 

So what should player's fight for if not for item rewards? Perhaps territorial conquest that gives access to precious resources, such as in strategy games. Heck, before the BGs were implemented in WoW, there was a lot of territorial dispute for resources even though there were no actual drawn boundaries. It was the most Warcraft-like WoW has ever been, to me. I believe DAoC had a similar system in place where players of each faction knew they had to conquer and defend certain things, not for glory or rewards, but for the good of the faction. That is what is missing in today's PvP environments in my opinion.

Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.

  NovaKayne

Novice Member

Joined: 3/04/04
Posts: 748

That is just my opion and we all know what THAT is good for!

8/02/10 9:46:56 AM#10

Inbteresting article.

 

I am not a fan of PvP but, I honestly believe it has its place and time.  So far, the game that STILL has had the best PvP experience is DAoC.  I have played a number of games and different PvP styles and I feel no developer has been able to best this system.

 

At least the system that was in place at the start.  No telling what it has been basterdized into by now. 

 

Simply put, why has no one adopted this system that they used?  Is it copyrighted somewhere?  Does someone own the legal rights to 3 realm PvP?

 

Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.

  Boqok

Novice Member

Joined: 6/07/10
Posts: 14

8/02/10 9:48:21 AM#11

I've been playing games since the days of the MUD.  No game ever presented PvP like DAoC did.  For some reason, despite the success the game had, and to a degree it still has, game designers haven't been smart enough to 'not' recreate the wheel.

DAoC virtually had a PvE game AND a PvP game built into one.  I knew people in that game that didn't like PvP, and they simply didn't play it.  There were people who hated PvE and stuck to soloing, or 8 mans, or the zerg and it's relic raids.

Then there were so many people like me who sometimes wanted to do nothing more than run around with my guild of friends, drink wine, laugh in vent, and do a dungeon, or a boss, or whatever we felt like doing.  I could go solo and explore without having some snot nosed brat leaping out of the shadows and ganking me.

But then, if i wanted to fight, I had a gigantic frontier to jump into with two entrances.  The way the guards were laid out, it was very difficult, if not impossible, to spawn camp, even if someone wanted to.  There was the occasional archer or assassin, but it wasn't a plague, and most of those people were interested in actually inciting a fight with other stealth anyway.

I scratch my head at game designers.  WAR completely destroyed me.  I didn't hesitate to buy that game because I thought to myself 'how could they screw it up' with DAoC on their resume? 

I have hopes for GW2, and I have my fingers crossed for KotR, but I won't buy another game ever again until it proves it can present PvP in a way that DAoC did - Open, KOS, but if you don't want that, you can detatch and go do something diametrically different.

 

 

  mszv

Novice Member

Joined: 6/18/06
Posts: 41

8/02/10 9:59:43 AM#12

I'm so not a PvPer, but this was a great read. 

What I like about PvP,  it can pay for  what I like in a game.  An example of this is Guild Wars -- from what people have told me, the PvP is good -- my Alliance participates.  I figure that if the PvP in game like Guild Wars drives box sales of the game -- that's great.  I never have to see PvP and I can enjoy the rest of the game.

I think it boils down to what you like to do in a game, compete, cooperate, or some flavor of the two.   If it's going to be a combat game (like most RPGs) -- I like to feel that I'm banding together with my fellow travelers to save the world from terrible danger.    But that's me. 

I assumed that people like PvP because of what you did in the game, the doing it part.  Now I read -- it's about the rewards, for some/many?   I didn't know that -- because I shy as far away from PvP as possible.  I don't even like it on the same server.  

I do like little mini-games, which I suppose, is a mild little version of PvP, but there's no dying.

It does seem to non PvP playing me -- there should be some concept of a fair fight between sort of evenly matched participants.  Otherwise, what's the point?

Regards,
mszv

  just1opinion

Smart-Alek

Joined: 8/14/07
Posts: 4933

8/02/10 10:09:34 AM#13

I'm not a HUGE fan of PvP. That being said, however, my first MMO was UO, and I loved the game...and....took my share of beat downs, to be sure. I've played a lot of other games where PvP was optional, and oftentimes I was in the mood for it....and enjoyed it. But when I WASN'T in the mood for PvP....I liked having the option to not participlate.

The only PvP that I can say was 100% pure enjoyment for me, personally, was any large scale PvP raid on another faction....any of them....in any game. Some of my fondest PvP memories, however, are from WoW from back in the vanilla days when those massive 200 vs. 200 type city raids on Stormwind and Ironforge used to take place. O M G....I revel in those memories. But the joy of those events played a significant part in my leaving the game later on, as well, after Blizzard instanced most of the PvP, and made faction bosses into an "achievement." That was, by and large, the beginning of the end for the Southshore/Tauren Mill football games, and the surprise attack mass raids on Ironforge. It was also the beginning of the end of FUN PvP for me in that game.

So I have mixed feelings about PvP. I don't WANT PvP taken out of games.  I DO want the option to participate. I DO want the option, most of all, to participate in large scale PvP, in either attacking or defending other players faction cities, at the very least, and perhaps their leaders and NPCs too. I DON'T want those things turned into quests or achievements that minimize the enjoyment by making it more a one time obligation for much of the population, and taking the spontaneaity and fun right out of it.  I don't know.

Tough subject matter for me.  I love EQ2, but I have never participated in PvP at any time in the game, even though they have made it an optional activity, there still is no large scale city raiding, and battlegrounds have always been a bore to me from their very inception. I will say...I never played DAoC long enough (I played a trial)  to know if THAT game, perhaps, is more what I might like in regards to PvP, so...I have no clue there.

I'm not at all unhappy in a game that has no PvP like what I enjoyed. As I said...I love EQ2. So, for me, if the PvP is to my liking...I will participate. If it's not...I won't...and I probably won't MISS it.  I like, however, having at least an option.

/shrug

President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

  User Deleted
8/02/10 10:23:54 AM#14
Originally posted by Harpy_Lady

Win or lose, II dislike PVP immensely. Nothing will change that. I don't like the playstyle. It's the same as playing sports to me. Which I also dislike. There is absolutely nothing that will change my dislike for PVP.

That said, if others want to PVP, go for it. Just don't force it on the rest of us.

I would agree with that.  People generally PvP for two reasons: 1) they're intensely competitive or 2) they enjoy fucking with others (sometimes it's both).

So far, MMORPGs have never provided a compelling in-game reason to engage in PvP.  No territory is won or lost for good (siege timers, vulnerability, the ability to respawn/zerg and take back an objective you just lost), and no victory over another player means anything since they're right back in the fight after rezzing.

I guess item loss could be viewed as a consequence, but then again, not really since typically the games that have item loss aren't item-centric (like Darkfall), so again it doesn't really matter at all.

At the end of the day, PvP is nothing more or less than a douche-bag enabler, regardless of how devs and journalists try to spin it.  To all of these devs, I say design PvP with some real and lasting consequences or STFU (and keep pumping out the systems that cater to internet tough guys and those with "little man" syndrome). 

It's beyond tiresome.

  Anubisan

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/09/05
Posts: 1833

8/02/10 10:27:57 AM#15

I always find it surprising to see how many MMO fans don't like PvP in any form...

I personally can't stand any MMO that doesn't have a strong focus on PvP in some form. Nothing gets the adrenaline pumping and makes you hang at the edge of your chair like an epic battle against another player. No scripted NPC can compare to a live opponent who actively responds to your tactics. But I usually tend to do pretty well in PvP games as long as they are somewhat balanced. I suppose if I was always losing in these encounters I might feel differently about it....

  japo

Novice Member

Joined: 11/18/05
Posts: 311

Today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday.

8/02/10 10:29:33 AM#16
Originally posted by Harpy_Lady


Win or lose, II dislike PVP immensely. Nothing will change that. I don't like the playstyle. It's the same as playing sports to me. Which I also dislike. There is absolutely nothing that will change my dislike for PVP.

That said, if others want to PVP, go for it. Just don't force it on the rest of us.

 

 

I love competative sporting events.  I love to play them and I love to watch them.

I hate PvP.

Why?  Competing in sports pits my skill against another's skill.  PvP pits my gear, my internet connection, and my credit card (gear again) against the other player's stuff.

Oh....and I don't get "teabagged" when someone scores against me in sports.

  KyngBills

Novice Member

Joined: 6/13/06
Posts: 452

8/02/10 10:29:37 AM#17
Originally posted by Cecropia
Originally posted by Harpy_Lady

Win or lose, II dislike PVP immensely. Nothing will change that. I don't like the playstyle. It's the same as playing sports to me. Which I also dislike. There is absolutely nothing that will change my dislike for PVP.

That said, if others want to PVP, go for it. Just don't force it on the rest of us.

 I wonder if others of the anti-PVP camp share this trait?

Don't read too much into that...Played Baseball and Football through High School...Softball every year after that and I'm a Personal Trainer...Don't PvP at all, whatsoever...Have no desire to start anytime soon...I'm strictly a PvE Player...

  Cecropia

Gumshoe

Joined: 3/06/09
Posts: 3274

Poacher killer.

8/02/10 10:31:53 AM#18
Originally posted by KyngBills
Originally posted by Cecropia
Originally posted by Harpy_Lady

Win or lose, II dislike PVP immensely. Nothing will change that. I don't like the playstyle. It's the same as playing sports to me. Which I also dislike. There is absolutely nothing that will change my dislike for PVP.

That said, if others want to PVP, go for it. Just don't force it on the rest of us.

 I wonder if others of the anti-PVP camp share this trait?

Don't read too much into that...Played Baseball and Football through High School...Softball every year after that and I'm a Personal Trainer...Don't PvP at all, whatsoever...Have no desire to start anytime soon...I'm strictly a PvE Player...

Fair enough, thanks.

"Chuck's a good fighter but he's a UFC fighter... this is Pride." - Quinton Rampage Jackson
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  just1opinion

Smart-Alek

Joined: 8/14/07
Posts: 4933

8/02/10 10:37:24 AM#19
Originally posted by japo
Originally posted by Harpy_Lady


Win or lose, II dislike PVP immensely. Nothing will change that. I don't like the playstyle. It's the same as playing sports to me. Which I also dislike. There is absolutely nothing that will change my dislike for PVP.

That said, if others want to PVP, go for it. Just don't force it on the rest of us.

 

 

I love competative sporting events.  I love to play them and I love to watch them.

I hate PvP.

Why?  Competing in sports pits my skill against another's skill.  PvP pits my gear, my internet connection, and my credit card (gear again) against the other player's stuff.

Oh....and I don't get "teabagged" when someone scores against me in sports.

 

 I have to agree that, unless you're playing in some gear-controlled video game arena event e-sport competition in Japan or somewhere....MMO PvP fails on the fairness front whereas real world sports tend to be more raw skills against raw skills.

 

Originally posted by Anubisan

I always find it surprising to see how many MMO fans don't like PvP in any form...

I personally can't stand any MMO that doesn't have a strong focus on PvP in some form. Nothing gets the adrenaline pumping and makes you hang at the edge of your chair like an epic battle against another player. No scripted NPC can compare to a live opponent who actively responds to your tactics. But I usually tend to do pretty well in PvP games as long as they are somewhat balanced. I suppose if I was always losing in these encounters I might feel differently about it....

 

This, in part, explains some of the misunderstanding between lovers of PvP and those that either don't like it at all....or, like me, like it SOME of the time.

Not everyone plays MMOs for the "adrenaline rush," that used to be attributed to FPS games and the adrenaline junkies that tend to gravitate TOWARD those types of games. Many MMO players came to the genre for the role playing, the adventuring nature of the games, the crafting, the social features, and more of an escape/relaxation reason than for "getting the adrenaline pumping."

People enjoy games for myriads of different reasons.

President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

  SnarlingWolf

Novice Member

Joined: 6/23/09
Posts: 2728

8/02/10 10:41:50 AM#20

“There is a common misconception that each encounter starts on a level playing field and that the balance of power is determined by skillful play,” Pruett said. “This is an unrealistic scenario as the majority of current generation MMOs are not skill-based"

 

That's the quote that sums up why I don't participate in MMO PvP anymore.

 

I LOVE competition against other gamers. I play FPS/RTS games with the mindset of trying to be better then the other player. The majority of the time it comes down to who has more skill, plain and simple (the rest of the time is with game bugs or major balance issues that get fixed, some player will always abuse those while they can to feel like they're good only to get stomped once the developers fix the issue).

 

The early MMOs had skill incorporated into the PvP, UO had some skill involved but due to "magic" arrows that you could run for a mile and they'd still hit you, it was still largely about class/gear. Asheron's Call came along and it was far more about skill then anything else, which made it a fantastic MMO for PvP AND PvE because the same skill set played into the PvE success. Unfortunatly all modern MMOs decide that skill should never ever matter in PvP (or even PvE) and instead it should be all about class/gear and that is it. That makes those games terrible for PvP, and it makes them highly boring for PvE. Unfortunatly for me, it is clear that millions of players love that type of MMO so that will be the norm until they tire of it. So I stick to old MMOs, and non MMOs for now. But I am always hoping for an MMO to come along that gets the type of gamers that I am a part of.

4 Pages 1 2 3 4 » Search