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Originally posted by Hagonbok

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Originally posted by gandales

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Originally posted by Hagonbok

It's convenient that when a game tanks some people have "it's a niche market game" to throw up there as if it's some kind of saving grace.

News flash. It's not a niche market game.  It's a designed for the mass market game that's failing.
People are trying to put the cart before the horse now, but it doesn't apply.

Cryptic never intended STO to be a "niche market game. Pretty much every decision they made along the way was intended to give the game mass market appeal.  Unfortunately their failure to deliver on the end result of those decisions in most areas, or to deliver a shoddy end result, is precisely why it's sitting with such anemic numbers.

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Could you elaborate a bit more? STO is a sci-fi mmo, which is already a kind of niche market itself. However, going a bit further the game is oriented to casual and relaxing gaming, which is not necesarily right or good for masses.
 
I know this is news for some people but there is a universe of players outside these forums that are not examining every detail of a game or make a mmo a huge part of their lives, people that expending $15 a month is neglectable in their budget. I am not saying that STO is a success but I could hardly call it a failure when I see many people enjoy it. Regrettable, I am not one of those people and I am not playing STO but some of my friends play it and they are happy with it. 

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You really are comical in your desperate attempts to defend this game. Do you really think they got the rights to make a ST mmo to create a "niche market game"? Are you serious? Give your sad little head a shake.

Not only that, but this whole "oriented to casual and relaxing gaming"  is something they scrambled to come up with long after it was clear the game was in trouble. It was an excuse for releasing the game with such a severe lack of content, continues to be an excuse, and it was a stupid attempt because even back when they came up with it  "casual and relaxed" players were complaining, and are still complaining, about that lack of content. There were 300+ people in our guild just after release that listed themselves as casual and relaxed gamers, and played as such, but were done with the game a month or less after getting it.
 
You can flog that BS as much as you like, but there's enough of us left  from the beginning (and I mean from the very first day Cryptic announced their effort and opened their site) that'll just keep giving you your much needed reality checks.  Neither you, nor Cryptic, is going to get away with changing history there you wannabe McFly.
 
It is a failure because not only is it's population tanking steadily, but it failed to deliver on pretty much everything they stated would be in the game at release, and they continue to fail in adding anything substantial to the game coming on six months after release.

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and you know all this for a fact huh? Go find some official numbers then, and not some opinion just because your noob guild of 300+ (i doubt that high though) has left the game.

"You can flog that BS as much as you like, but there's enough of us left  from the beginning (and I mean from the very first day Cryptic announced their effort and opened their site) that'll just keep giving you your much needed reality checks.  Neither you, nor Cryptic, is going to get away with changing history there you wannabe McFly."

I was around from day 1 and don't even remotely agree with that statement. Again its just your honest STO troll opinion talking again.

So argue a massive wall of text about stuff you think you know when in actual reality, STO is doing pretty good for itself, and if you think otherwise because people complain, look at the small "niche" games that are still running and i guarantee there will be the EXACT same people in those games that hate on it just as much.

Originally posted by gamerman98

 

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Originally posted by Hagonbok

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Originally posted by gandales

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Originally posted by Hagonbok

It's convenient that when a game tanks some people have "it's a niche market game" to throw up there as if it's some kind of saving grace.

News flash. It's not a niche market game.  It's a designed for the mass market game that's failing.
People are trying to put the cart before the horse now, but it doesn't apply.

Cryptic never intended STO to be a "niche market game. Pretty much every decision they made along the way was intended to give the game mass market appeal.  Unfortunately their failure to deliver on the end result of those decisions in most areas, or to deliver a shoddy end result, is precisely why it's sitting with such anemic numbers.

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Could you elaborate a bit more? STO is a sci-fi mmo, which is already a kind of niche market itself. However, going a bit further the game is oriented to casual and relaxing gaming, which is not necesarily right or good for masses.
 
I know this is news for some people but there is a universe of players outside these forums that are not examining every detail of a game or make a mmo a huge part of their lives, people that expending $15 a month is neglectable in their budget. I am not saying that STO is a success but I could hardly call it a failure when I see many people enjoy it. Regrettable, I am not one of those people and I am not playing STO but some of my friends play it and they are happy with it. 

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You really are comical in your desperate attempts to defend this game. Do you really think they got the rights to make a ST mmo to create a "niche market game"? Are you serious? Give your sad little head a shake.

 

Not only that, but this whole "oriented to casual and relaxing gaming"  is something they scrambled to come up with long after it was clear the game was in trouble. It was an excuse for releasing the game with such a severe lack of content, continues to be an excuse, and it was a stupid attempt because even back when they came up with it  "casual and relaxed" players were complaining, and are still complaining, about that lack of content. There were 300+ people in our guild just after release that listed themselves as casual and relaxed gamers, and played as such, but were done with the game a month or less after getting it.
 
You can flog that BS as much as you like, but there's enough of us left  from the beginning (and I mean from the very first day Cryptic announced their effort and opened their site) that'll just keep giving you your much needed reality checks.  Neither you, nor Cryptic, is going to get away with changing history there you wannabe McFly.
 
It is a failure because not only is it's population tanking steadily, but it failed to deliver on pretty much everything they stated would be in the game at release, and they continue to fail in adding anything substantial to the game coming on six months after release.
 

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and you know all this for a fact huh? Go find some official numbers then, and not some opinion just because your noob guild of 300+ (i doubt that high though) has left the game.

"You can flog that BS as much as you like, but there's enough of us left  from the beginning (and I mean from the very first day Cryptic announced their effort and opened their site) that'll just keep giving you your much needed reality checks.  Neither you, nor Cryptic, is going to get away with changing history there you wannabe McFly."

I was around from day 1 and don't even remotely agree with that statement. Again its just your honest STO troll opinion talking again.

So argue a massive wall of text about stuff you think you know when in actual reality, STO is doing pretty good for itself, and if you think otherwise because people complain, look at the small "niche" games that are still running and i guarantee there will be the EXACT same people in those games that hate on it just as much.

 Hagon was around a LOOOOONGGGG time before beta even started.  He had many good   threads  that got many dev responces and the discussions he started lasted a very long time.  He has been around long enough to see what the devs promised the game would be, and to see what it became. I think his opinion can count for something.   Im glad you were around for day one, because this just shows that you only see what you want to.. not what actually is.

Ya know what... there are a LOT of long time posters and vets that are no longer with STO.  Even ones that fought to defend the game tooth and nail for a long time before beta.   The game launches and suddenly these long time defenders and supporters start to vanish......I wonder why that is?

Perhaps you to could provide some numbers on the sub situation sto has going on since you seem to think hagons number is inacurate?  No?  Oh I see.  Then perhaps you can just can the "Show me some numbers" arguement, because you dont have them either it seems.

Stahl is trying to keep his job, plain and simple. Pity he's fighting a losing battle. First impressions are the most lasting and you only get one chance to make them.

Originally posted by Sluagh_Lord

Stahl is trying to keep his job, plain and simple. Pity he's fighting a losing battle. First impressions are the most lasting and you only get one chance to make them.

 I beg to differ. I am a REH fan through and through and when AOC launched I was excited to jump into Conan. The game sucked because of lag, bugs, graphical junk. I quit after the first month. I was bored with whatever MMO it was I switched to at the time and re-subbed to AOC that Novemeber to see what had changed. Night and day difference for me. I'm still subbed to this day.

If you left STO because lack of content, bugs, then there is a good chance when you revisit the game months down the line you will probably enjoy it more. If you left because you did not like the gameplay then chances are your revisit will not be any better.

To the other posters wanting to raise a crusade to warn others how STO sucks and Cryptic is the devil. I would hope any member of this site or any other forums for games uses a little common sense. Most MMOs out there have free trials, not everyone thinks alike and we all have different tastes. Get the trial and decide for yourself if you find the game fun and if the game will run well on your PC. 

I never took the advice of any poster on this site as influence if I wanted to buy a game. If that was the case I wouldn't be playing anything. Check out any section on this site and there are resident people who will without pause jump in and tell you how much so and so game sucks.

Congrats for being part of the problem then. You're actually encouraging these companies to put out shoddy games. You're such a winner!

Thankfully, like AoC, no matter what they do they're not ever going to be able to provide players a decent population to play with now., and that is because of that bad first impression that was just mentioned. Like Funcom with AoC, they failed. Finally getting a game worth the money people payed for it a year+ after release just doesn't cut it.

I'm sorry Hagonbok, it's just a game. Vote with your wallet. Raging on the forums is pointless. I am a winner! I pick a game/s I have fun with and enjoy. It it's fun then it gets my money. I'm sorry the game didn't work out for you.

As for AOC I have no problems finding groups for dungeons and the guild I'm in does weekly raids with no shortages. Population is fine. Could it be better, of course. As long as I'm able to find groups and do a few dungeons I'm happy and it will get my money.

Find a game and go have fun! Geez. Then you too can be a winner!

Originally posted by Sevenwind

Originally posted by Sluagh_Lord

Stahl is trying to keep his job, plain and simple. Pity he's fighting a losing battle. First impressions are the most lasting and you only get one chance to make them.

 I beg to differ. I am a REH fan through and through and when AOC launched I was excited to jump into Conan. The game sucked because of lag, bugs, graphical junk. I quit after the first month. I was bored with whatever MMO it was I switched to at the time and re-subbed to AOC that Novemeber to see what had changed. Night and day difference for me. I'm still subbed to this day.

If you left STO because lack of content, bugs, then there is a good chance when you revisit the game months down the line you will probably enjoy it more. If you left because you did not like the gameplay then chances are your revisit will not be any better.

this is what most of I hope will happen, that cryptic will add enough to sto that it will be considered a decent title. theres a lot of skepticism to this taking place when the focus seems to be more on finding out what will make money in the c-store, rather than re-tooling entire systems that are very poorly made (crafting/exploration). theres also the fact that the game needs at least three times the content it current ly has.

To the other posters wanting to raise a crusade to warn others how STO sucks and Cryptic is the devil. I would hope any member of this site or any other forums for games uses a little common sense. Most MMOs out there have free trials, not everyone thinks alike and we all have different tastes. Get the trial and decide for yourself if you find the game fun and if the game will run well on your PC. 

well said, of course when the mass majority say that a game is not any good... pretty good chance that it is bad.

I never took the advice of any poster on this site as influence if I wanted to buy a game. If that was the case I wouldn't be playing anything. Check out any section on this site and there are resident people who will without pause jump in and tell you how much so and so game sucks.

taking the advice of any one poster would be a mistake, however when there is an overwhelming majority in one camp (either pro or con) thats a pretty good sign that should either try the game or spend your time trying something else. a huge majority of people were looking forward to this game in anticipation, the numbers of people thinking this game is great has gone in the opposite direction by a very very wide margin.

is sto worth a free trial.. sure, there are better games to try, but if its free why not.

is there better games out there that would be worth trying first.. yes, without any doubt at all.

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Originally posted by raistalin69

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Originally posted by Sevenwind

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Originally posted by Sluagh_Lord
Stahl is trying to keep his job, plain and simple. Pity he's fighting a losing battle. First impressions are the most lasting and you only get one chance to make them.

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 I beg to differ. I am a REH fan through and through and when AOC launched I was excited to jump into Conan. The game sucked because of lag, bugs, graphical junk. I quit after the first month. I was bored with whatever MMO it was I switched to at the time and re-subbed to AOC that Novemeber to see what had changed. Night and day difference for me. I'm still subbed to this day.
If you left STO because lack of content, bugs, then there is a good chance when you revisit the game months down the line you will probably enjoy it more. If you left because you did not like the gameplay then chances are your revisit will not be any better.
this is what most of I hope will happen, that cryptic will add enough to sto that it will be considered a decent title. theres a lot of skepticism to this taking place when the focus seems to be more on finding out what will make money in the c-store, rather than re-tooling entire systems that are very poorly made (crafting/exploration). theres also the fact that the game needs at least three times the content it current ly has.
To the other posters wanting to raise a crusade to warn others how STO sucks and Cryptic is the devil. I would hope any member of this site or any other forums for games uses a little common sense. Most MMOs out there have free trials, not everyone thinks alike and we all have different tastes. Get the trial and decide for yourself if you find the game fun and if the game will run well on your PC. 
well said, of course when the mass majority say that a game is not any good... pretty good chance that it is bad.
I never took the advice of any poster on this site as influence if I wanted to buy a game. If that was the case I wouldn't be playing anything. Check out any section on this site and there are resident people who will without pause jump in and tell you how much so and so game sucks.
taking the advice of any one poster would be a mistake, however when there is an overwhelming majority in one camp (either pro or con) thats a pretty good sign that should either try the game or spend your time trying something else. a huge majority of people were looking forward to this game in anticipation, the numbers of people thinking this game is great has gone in the opposite direction by a very very wide margin.
is sto worth a free trial.. sure, there are better games to try, but if its free why not.
is there better games out there that would be worth trying first.. yes, without any doubt at all.

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If we all follow the last advice in red, anybody on these forums wouldn't play any games. This forum is full of people who want to argue, troll, take jabs at people and very few actually want to talk about the game and it's contents good or bad.

Originally posted by Sevenwind

Originally posted by Sluagh_Lord

Stahl is trying to keep his job, plain and simple. Pity he's fighting a losing battle. First impressions are the most lasting and you only get one chance to make them.

If you left STO because lack of content, bugs, then there is a good chance when you revisit the game months down the line you will probably enjoy it more. If you left because you did not like the gameplay then chances are your revisit will not be any better.

People who left STO due to lack of content  will find that its still just as bad. The tiny amount of single player content added since launch is no more than 4 hours worth of playtime which is a complete joke and the raids are nothing more than boring grindfests which went out of fashion in the EQ1 days.

Originally posted by rawidema

 

If we all follow the last advice in red, anybody on these forums wouldn't play any games. This forum is full of people who want to argue, troll, take jabs at people and very few actually want to talk about the game and it's contents good or bad.

 Actually, people have been discussing the game's points (good or bad) since before it officially launched. The problem is that there are a select few who can't stand to hear anything bad about the game's many problems, and then come in here every other month or so and start arguing (generally rather poorly) on any issue that pops up. Additionally, you seemed to gloss over the entire section of Raistalin69's post:

"I never took the advice of any poster on this site as influence if I wanted to buy a game. If that was the case I wouldn't be playing anything. Check out any section on this site and there are resident people who will without pause jump in and tell you how much so and so game sucks.
taking the advice of any one poster would be a mistake, however when there is an overwhelming majority in one camp (either pro or con) thats a pretty good sign that should either try the game or spend your time trying something else. a huge majority of people were looking forward to this game in anticipation, the numbers of people thinking this game is great has gone in the opposite direction by a very very wide margin.
is sto worth a free trial.. sure, there are better games to try, but if its free why not.
is there better games out there that would be worth trying first.. yes, without any doubt at all. "

Congratulations, you just became the person you were talking about in that last sentence in your post.
 

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Originally posted by Dinendae

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Originally posted by rawidema
 
If we all follow the last advice in red, anybody on these forums wouldn't play any games. This forum is full of people who want to argue, troll, take jabs at people and very few actually want to talk about the game and it's contents good or bad.

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 Actually, people have been discussing the game's points (good or bad) since before it officially launched. The problem is that there are a select few who can't stand to hear anything bad about the game's many problems, and then come in here every other month or so and start arguing (generally rather poorly) on any issue that pops up. Additionally, you seemed to gloss over the entire section of Raistalin69's post:
"I never took the advice of any poster on this site as influence if I wanted to buy a game. If that was the case I wouldn't be playing anything. Check out any section on this site and there are resident people who will without pause jump in and tell you how much so and so game sucks.
taking the advice of any one poster would be a mistake, however when there is an overwhelming majority in one camp (either pro or con) thats a pretty good sign that should either try the game or spend your time trying something else. a huge majority of people were looking forward to this game in anticipation, the numbers of people thinking this game is great has gone in the opposite direction by a very very wide margin.
is sto worth a free trial.. sure, there are better games to try, but if its free why not.
is there better games out there that would be worth trying first.. yes, without any doubt at all. "
Congratulations, you just became the person you were talking about in that last sentence in your post.
 
 

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Welcome to the club then Dinen.

It really doesnt matter how much content they add it wont change what is wrong with this game, its was to instanced and closed in, theres a reason why most have stated they feel like there playing a single player game and thats becasue thats what it is, the over instanced zones and closed in systems (lol sector space) make the game not feel like a mmo at all and people dont want to pay a monthly sub for a sub standered sincle player game with added chatroom!.

Not to mention how many times this company keeps fking over its remaining fans, but these diehards keep going back for more while crypic drains there wallets, pretty funny.

And quit with the "niche" rubbish  please, this was marketed from day one to a mainstream game and with the startrek name on it should have done ALOT better than its doing now, fact is this game will continue to tank till it goes F2P where it might see some success but none like the devs had hoped for.

Only one thing this company seems to do well and thats finding new inventve ways to take your money.

Lol Raist, getting the fanboi's fired up.  

Healage

Originally posted by Sevenwind

I'm sorry Hagonbok, it's just a game. Vote with your wallet. Raging on the forums is pointless. I am a winner! I pick a game/s I have fun with and enjoy. It it's fun then it gets my money. I'm sorry the game didn't work out for you.

As for AOC I have no problems finding groups for dungeons and the guild I'm in does weekly raids with no shortages. Population is fine. Could it be better, of course. As long as I'm able to find groups and do a few dungeons I'm happy and it will get my money.

Find a game and go have fun! Geez. Then you too can be a winner!

It isn't pointless. Thinking like that is precisely why ripoff artist companies like Cryptic think they can get away with this crap. They're still confident that enough idiots will play any piece of garbage offered up to them, and those same idiots will tell others "just hush, it's just a game, move on".  The thing is, soon these same idiots will be the ones lamenting about the sorry state of mmos and how there's no value for the money spent anymore, if they aren't already.

It is all about voting with your wallet, but it's also warning people off having to waste their hard earned money too, and most importantly contributing to sending a message to these scam artists at Craptic, and any other bunch that's thinking of pulling the same type of thing.

So I'll continue to do my part, and I'll support anyone else that's doing their part too. It's the only protection our fellow mmo gamers have out there atm. In fact given your perfect example of the ignorance of some out there regarding support of shoddy gaming companies and the damage it does, you've just cemented my resolve to ramp up my efforts evn more in  getting the word out to avoid Cryptic at any cost actually.

Well best of luck to you Hagonbok on your crusade. Maybe you can get something like a PAC going with similar ragers and preach the injustice you think you were dealt. I'll tend to believe people have enough common sense to grab the trial and see if he game or any game is worth paying and playing for rather than listen to rage quiters and over confident fans in forums. In the end it's still opinion and people like different things.

Best of luck on that mission of yours. If you get bumper stickers made or billboards out let me know and take some good pictures for us to see.

Have a good weekend.

Originally posted by Sevenwind

Well best of luck to you Hagonbok on your crusade. Maybe you can get something like a PAC going with similar ragers and preach the injustice you think you were dealt. I'll tend to believe people have enough common sense to grab the trial and see if he game or any game is worth paying and playing for rather than listen to rage quiters and over confident fans in forums. In the end it's still opinion and people like different things.

Best of luck on that mission of yours. If you get bumper stickers made or billboards out let me know and take some good pictures for us to see.

Have a good weekend.

Ask the lifetime sub buyers if this logic holds true.

Originally posted by gholston

Originally posted by Sevenwind

Well best of luck to you Hagonbok on your crusade. Maybe you can get something like a PAC going with similar ragers and preach the injustice you think you were dealt. I'll tend to believe people have enough common sense to grab the trial and see if he game or any game is worth paying and playing for rather than listen to rage quiters and over confident fans in forums. In the end it's still opinion and people like different things.

Best of luck on that mission of yours. If you get bumper stickers made or billboards out let me know and take some good pictures for us to see.

Have a good weekend.

 

 

Ask the lifetime sub buyers if this logic holds true.

 People could have easily gotten into open beta and made a decision if it was worth the money to purchase a lifetime sub. A lot of questions should be asked to yourself, Am a power gamer and run out of content in a month? Am  I a casual gamer enough to satisfy me till next season is in? You know you best, and you should know if the game is worth your money for a lifetime sub. In my opinion...

I almost bought STO for the space combat alone. That's how much I loved it.

The reason I didn't buy it is the ground combat. That ground combat honestly feels like a punishment. I completely avoided missions solely because of of this, which I felt was taking out a major portion of the game. I couldn't justify paying for a game when I wasn't playing half the game.

Until they tell me the ground combat is completely different, I'll never subscribe.

Originally posted by rawidema

 

 

Welcome to the club then Dinen.

 I have been talking about STO's problems and the few things they have gotten right in these forums since the game launched. Unfortunately for STO, the former far outnumber the latter. You on the other hand popped in here and twisted what Raistalin69 said so that it would mean what you wanted it to; in fact he was merely stating that you should be wary of a game where the overall response is negative, but you should still make up your own mind. If you cannot honestly debate STO's pros and cons, then that makes you part of the game's problems as well and I have no problem pointing out your hypocrisy. As I said before, we get your type in here on a regular basis.

Originally posted by Sevenwind

 I'll tend to believe people have enough common sense to grab the trial and see if he game or any game is worth paying and playing for rather than listen to rage quiters and over confident fans in forums. In the end it's still opinion and people like different things.

 

 

I'm confidant that anyone with even reasonable intelligence would by now be asking themselves if the game is supposedly ok, just why some people feel the need to try and discredit those that are trying to warn others off of it. If the game was any good at all, wouldn't people just be confident that nothing any of us say will matter and ignore us? I'd say that the fact that people can't do that, and every so often we see a couple of people come from out of the blue to post here and attack us and the points we make, speaks louder than any of us could.