Id go back instantly. And never look at the shit mmo's that are out atm ever again.

Originally posted by medmarijuana

let them bring it back so the folks that never got a chance to play it can see for themselves.

 

--->   I garuntee you that most people that have not played that game( Pre cu) will play for one hour and go, meh. What the heck is all the fuss about?!?!?!!?   <---

 

This.

I never saw the appeal to Pre-CU...It was kinda dull and had little playability...A bit too imagination intensive, I'm one who needs a bit of content. I prefer it the way it is now.

Originally posted by Palebane

The communities have changed too much, in my opinion. I never played the game, but I'd be willing to bet that even if you put the code exactly the same as it was, the feeling of the game would not be the same. Not right now anyway. 

Have to agree with this, the whole gaming community has changed dramatically and nostalgia is a tricky siren. I will remember my SWG experience from launch to CU. I met some great friends, had some wonderful exploration experiences not repeated in any other online game. At least that's what my mind tells me. ;)

Going shopping in other people's homes getting to know them and when they restocked. The excellent PvP battles on Tattooine. Exploring Corellia and Naboo for the first time. Getting comfortable in the popular cantinas and BS'ing with folks.

Watching players finally get close to discovering how to unlock Jedi... and the sad day when we learned how ridiculous that was.

The whole reason SOE enacted the NGE was because no one was playing this damned game, despite having one of the strongest IPs on the market.

If as many people had played as now whinge about it they wouldnt ever have had to do it.

Topic Moved:  The conversation seems geared more towards SWG (pre-CU), rather than SW:ToR.

Feel free to PM me or community@mmorpg.com if you have a compelling reason to relocate the topic to the ToR forums.  Thanks!

SWG was a long winded grinder in a world that was largely computer generated; where a few people could control an entire game economy and where a couple of vets formed a tightly knit community that was darn hard to get into as a newbie.

It's redeeming factors being exploration that could last you a while and the diversity you seemingly had, until you hit a brick wall of grinding yet again.

Go back to it? Hell no.

I would go back.

Originally posted by Moaky07

 

  Do you not comprehend that folks arent logging into MMOs en masse due to trade-skills? Of the 3 playestyles(PVE, PVP, and trades) it is the one with the least amount of gametime dedicated to it. Like I stated later on in thread, your average person is a consumer....not a builder. 

ahh so let me get this straight because you believe that everybody wants the game you want is true and everybody else is wrong... ok got you.  YOu speak for EVERYBODY.  got you.  so no point in having a forum right?  you have the gyst of everybody.  There are no opposition to what you say in other words.  So MMORPG.com... please shut down the forums.  there is no need for them.  Mr. Moaky here says everything we believe.

  

So many others" is  = ALL now eh?  Nice to put words into  my mouth.

whatever, you are still saying many as if you speak for most.  Oh and do keep in mind that "most" dont even visit these forums.

 

You must of been a nOOb when SWG launched, cause those of us playing MMOs saw it crash & burn from the onset. It gained subs? Slight deviation for a month or two in no way/shape/form indicates a sustained growth.  SWG never grew, that was the problem...it was a piece of chit.

LOL you do realize.. EVERYBODY who played SWG at launch was a NOOB.. game is NEW.. so yes we are all newbies.. noobies.. spelling whichever way you want to spell it.  and no it wasnt crash and burn from teh start.  YOu have this hard on against SWG obviously.  you got killed one too many times.. you didnt feel elite like you do in WOW or something huh?   And wrong it did GROW.  SOE made sure to let us know its sub update for the first 6 months.  but again... after the first 6 months they stopped doing it. as the decline started to happen.  that was right around the time the hologrinding started to happen.

  Most....now by most....do you mean "All" like prior....or do you mean as in folks on this msg brd? MMORPG.com has had a very vocal sandbox contingent for yrs now that in no way is proportionate to those tend to play themepark vs sandbox games. In a sandbox a trader economy is fine, in a themepark it goes counter to the concept of "complete the ride, and get the prize". 

dude everything you are saying is an opinion not fact man... get it straight... i have given my opinion about SWG and how it was.. but if you are asking about subs numbers i will tell you straight out because i played the game for 3 + straight years from its luanch.  you obviously didnt so how can you possibly know the game?  fact is you dont.   your butt is sore from it or something.    fine you like the easy mode theme parks.  Cool for you.  But me and many others dont like it.  not just on these forums.  You will hear a lot of gamers saying please dont let this game be like WOW.  yada yada.  There are plenty of players out there not wanting a theme park game.  am i saying ALL no.  AM i saying MOST.. NO...  but tehre are a substantial amount of poeple out there who are looking for it. 

 

OK lets say there were 10 areas.....over how many planets again? What was the rest.....a big F-ng empty space for folks to build their future ghost-towns. Contrast that with a themepark....you sure have a lot more than 10 areas to do PVE content in a proper themepark.  I also dont believe a number of those things were in at launch. SO saying "well we eventually got this" doesnt mean squat....all MMOs add on after launch(well any that are worth paying for :P )

10 planets at start man.  and each planet provided PVE... it wasnt empty space.  you ran around dathomir i would gaurantee you would run into a pack of something not far from leaving the starport.  so no i wouldnt say anything was dead and empty.  ghost towns?  dude our planet which was LOK was hopping the entire time PRE CU was out.  CU killed it somewhat... but it still was not dead. 

 And we care you prefer AC why? I would prefer you SWG vets STFU after 5 yrs, but it isnt in the cards. Lets just stick to facts here.

same thing goes for you mentioning  EQ...  US SWG vets?  STFU?  LOL maybe its you who should STFU right?  I mean you are the one who has the beef against us?  we make a thread.. you hop in here bashing SWG.. bashing the players... maybes its NOT US... ITS YOU....

Again, you are either simpleminded, or doing your damndest to create straw-man attacks.  Probably a little of both. Did I bring up questing? No...PVE....you know....go to an area to find stuff to kill.  Questing can be for PVP, PVE, or for your precious trades. It isnt unique to PVE. 

LOL strawman attack?  yeah im attacking you?  never said anthing of the sort did I?  You must be misreading something beacuse you are confusing me here on what you are getting at?

 

   Can you read the market more wrong? A themepark that launches decently polished, and with more than 80 hrs of content does very well. I gave 5 examples of themeparks that have sat at over 300k NA subs during the course of their lifetime. Only ONE sandbox has managed to keep 300k or more for more than a couple of months....that of course is EVE. Now if you wanna contend something like open world is "sandbox"...then sure....I also belive games should be open worlds. When you start talking about giving players the right to create the content in an empty open world, ala SWG, then I throw the BS flag.

 

really only EVE?  UO is sandbox still running... AC still a sandbox still running... SHadowbane had a great number of years before it shut its doors... in fact when it moved to free to play.. it had a heck of a lot of players.  guildwars is not a theme park... its doing quite succesffully..  DAOC was not a theme park and it was quite successful.  I mean seriously man, we get it... you like theme park.. GOOD FOR YOU....we are glad you like the simple things to play.  no problem.. your CHOICE>>> YOUR OPINON.

 

  Do you have reading comprehension issues? EQ was the first themepark, and once it launched, folks dropped UO like a hotcake. Since the launch of EQ in 99, there has not been another sandbox sit atop the NA sub chart since. 

no obviously you do.. .see you mentioned EQ again.. why.... who really cares.... right you said that when i mentioned AC... so stop bringing up EQ... sure there hasnt... EQ is the best in the world since 99 till WOW came out right?  LOL  you really didnt play many MMOs did you?

 

 Blah blah blah....dude give it a rest. You cant even address the fact that so many SWG users held a plethora of subs each. Not 1 or 2 like most gamers....but 5 to 10 depending on the person. It was common-place. That is Sam Deathwalker type account holding. It is realy easy to surmise the reason for it....one character per server per account. So even if it only was an average of 2 subs per person, you are still talking 125k folks for 250k subs. Now do you really wanna insist how "popular" SWG was? We are tslking the SW IP here. It wasnt popular, save to the type of folks that are still preaching the gospel.

yes yes, you need to give it a rest.  WE know you dont like SWG... you dont like us VETS.. so got a solution for you... why are you in this thread.  You dont need to click on the thread here.  Obviously you dont need to be here.  You dont like us having a thread like this then dont READ IT.  Oh my, seriuosly that is so hard for you isnt it.  you seem like the type you gotta win at everything even a stupid conversation like this.  I can guarantee you will write back with somethin snazzy.

Before MMOs became mainstream, those of us playing them voted....themepark was it. WoW just cemented the standing to the Nth degree. Granted  they turned down the difficutly further than I do when playing a FPS...but it is what it is. I realize you are butt-hurt over my calling out the PRECioUs, but there is a reason no one else wanted to playSWG. Well save for the handfull holding multiple accounts, and all singing in unison "Koster is God, and Brad is da Debil".

yeah thats why so many of the theme park games that have come out since WOW have done so well right?  yeah its because its what everybody wants right?  LOL... no man.. if people want theme park MMO.. might as well play WOW... thats been the problem and its also why this era right now is nicknamed the dark age of gaming right now.  No MMO is good out right now.

That reason of course isSWG was a steaming pile of chit.

opinions opinions.   its still an opinion.  you say chit and i say great.  so glad you think so.  But i disagree... however i bet you arent man enough to accept someone elses opinion.

I get the feeling some of you vets are going to really be upset when you see what a good SWG MMO draws in sub numbers. Who knows, maybe I can get another SWG former player, or three, stalking me like the clown that "video blogs for the vets cause while in makeup" has been doing over the last couple of months. I am sure you guys have seen his report linked in your vet forums.

LOL upset over you... nah, you have definitely shown your true colors.. no need to.  just waiting for your snazzy comeback.  showing those true colors out.

 

And lastly....going back to your 50k subs statement: 

dude, it is a statement.. and pretty much a true one... there are games out right now.. that only have about 50k subs and still running... maybe even less... and they are making enough and are still alive.  so you are arguing with a fact?  i just made a statement thats all?  meaning you dont need tons of money to keep a game running.

If you expect a company to make a game for 50k subs, then why in all Hell arent you guys supporting the Indy houses? 50k subs will NEVER EVER EVER....yes I said NEVER EVER....get a AAA sandox title made. The initial cost wouldnt warrant the return. Darkfall/MO/Ryzom and a few others could use the attention/subs. Instead those of us interested in themepark games, like TOR, get to listen to you guys cry cause there arent any new AAA sandboxes being launched.

never said this did I?  dude seriuosly i think you just love arguing... but anwyay, i await your snazzy comeback

 

 P.S. by the way, about your beloved theme park... you can only ride the same rollercoaster so much before it begins to be boring.

 

 

 

 

mine are in BLUE

Originally posted by willvas

Originally posted by Moaky07

 

  Do you not comprehend that folks arent logging into MMOs en masse due to trade-skills? Of the 3 playestyles(PVE, PVP, and trades) it is the one with the least amount of gametime dedicated to it. Like I stated later on in thread, your average person is a consumer....not a builder. 

1 ) ahh so let me get this straight because you believe that everybody wants the game you want is true and everybody else is wrong... ok got you.  YOu speak for EVERYBODY.  got you.  so no point in having a forum right?  you have the gyst of everybody.  There are no opposition to what you say in other words.  So MMORPG.com... please shut down the forums.  there is no need for them.  Mr. Moaky here says everything we believe.

  

So many others" is  = ALL now eh?  Nice to put words into  my mouth.

whatever, you are still saying many as if you speak for most.  Oh and do keep in mind that "most" dont even visit these forums.

 

You must of been a nOOb when SWG launched, cause those of us playing MMOs saw it crash & burn from the onset. It gained subs? Slight deviation for a month or two in no way/shape/form indicates a sustained growth.  SWG never grew, that was the problem...it was a piece of chit.

2 ) LOL you do realize.. EVERYBODY who played SWG at launch was a NOOB.. game is NEW.. so yes we are all newbies.. noobies.. spelling whichever way you want to spell it.  and no it wasnt crash and burn from teh start.  YOu have this hard on against SWG obviously.  you got killed one too many times.. you didnt feel elite like you do in WOW or something huh?   And wrong it did GROW.  SOE made sure to let us know its sub update for the first 6 months.  but again... after the first 6 months they stopped doing it. as the decline started to happen.  that was right around the time the hologrinding started to happen.

  Most....now by most....do you mean "All" like prior....or do you mean as in folks on this msg brd? MMORPG.com has had a very vocal sandbox contingent for yrs now that in no way is proportionate to those tend to play themepark vs sandbox games. In a sandbox a trader economy is fine, in a themepark it goes counter to the concept of "complete the ride, and get the prize". 

3 ) dude everything you are saying is an opinion not fact man... get it straight... i have given my opinion about SWG and how it was.. but if you are asking about subs numbers i will tell you straight out because i played the game for 3 + straight years from its luanch.  you obviously didnt so how can you possibly know the game?  fact is you dont.   your butt is sore from it or something.    fine you like the easy mode theme parks.  Cool for you.  But me and many others dont like it.  not just on these forums.  You will hear a lot of gamers saying please dont let this game be like WOW.  yada yada.  There are plenty of players out there not wanting a theme park game.  am i saying ALL no.  AM i saying MOST.. NO...  but tehre are a substantial amount of poeple out there who are looking for it. 

 

OK lets say there were 10 areas.....over how many planets again? What was the rest.....a big F-ng empty space for folks to build their future ghost-towns. Contrast that with a themepark....you sure have a lot more than 10 areas to do PVE content in a proper themepark.  I also dont believe a number of those things were in at launch. SO saying "well we eventually got this" doesnt mean squat....all MMOs add on after launch(well any that are worth paying for :P )

4 ) 10 planets at start man.  and each planet provided PVE... it wasnt empty space.  you ran around dathomir i would gaurantee you would run into a pack of something not far from leaving the starport.  so no i wouldnt say anything was dead and empty.  ghost towns?  dude our planet which was LOK was hopping the entire time PRE CU was out.  CU killed it somewhat... but it still was not dead. 

 And we care you prefer AC why? I would prefer you SWG vets STFU after 5 yrs, but it isnt in the cards. Lets just stick to facts here.

same thing goes for you mentioning  EQ...  US SWG vets?  STFU?  LOL maybe its you who should STFU right?  I mean you are the one who has the beef against us?  we make a thread.. you hop in here bashing SWG.. bashing the players... maybes its NOT US... ITS YOU....

Again, you are either simpleminded, or doing your damndest to create straw-man attacks.  Probably a little of both. Did I bring up questing? No...PVE....you know....go to an area to find stuff to kill.  Questing can be for PVP, PVE, or for your precious trades. It isnt unique to PVE. 

5 ) LOL strawman attack?  yeah im attacking you?  never said anthing of the sort did I?  You must be misreading something beacuse you are confusing me here on what you are getting at?

 

   Can you read the market more wrong? A themepark that launches decently polished, and with more than 80 hrs of content does very well. I gave 5 examples of themeparks that have sat at over 300k NA subs during the course of their lifetime. Only ONE sandbox has managed to keep 300k or more for more than a couple of months....that of course is EVE. Now if you wanna contend something like open world is "sandbox"...then sure....I also belive games should be open worlds. When you start talking about giving players the right to create the content in an empty open world, ala SWG, then I throw the BS flag.

 

really only EVE?  UO is sandbox still running... AC still a sandbox still running... SHadowbane had a great number of years before it shut its doors... in fact when it moved to free to play.. it had a heck of a lot of players.  guildwars is not a theme park... its doing quite succesffully..  DAOC was not a theme park and it was quite successful.  I mean seriously man, we get it... you like theme park.. GOOD FOR YOU....we are glad you like the simple things to play.  no problem.. your CHOICE>>> YOUR OPINON.

 

  Do you have reading comprehension issues? EQ was the first themepark, and once it launched, folks dropped UO like a hotcake. Since the launch of EQ in 99, there has not been another sandbox sit atop the NA sub chart since. 

6 ) no obviously you do.. .see you mentioned EQ again.. why.... who really cares.... right you said that when i mentioned AC... so stop bringing up EQ... sure there hasnt... EQ is the best in the world since 99 till WOW came out right?  LOL  you really didnt play many MMOs did you?

 

 Blah blah blah....dude give it a rest. You cant even address the fact that so many SWG users held a plethora of subs each. Not 1 or 2 like most gamers....but 5 to 10 depending on the person. It was common-place. That is Sam Deathwalker type account holding. It is realy easy to surmise the reason for it....one character per server per account. So even if it only was an average of 2 subs per person, you are still talking 125k folks for 250k subs. Now do you really wanna insist how "popular" SWG was? We are tslking the SW IP here. It wasnt popular, save to the type of folks that are still preaching the gospel.

7 ) yes yes, you need to give it a rest.  WE know you dont like SWG... you dont like us VETS.. so got a solution for you... why are you in this thread.  You dont need to click on the thread here.  Obviously you dont need to be here.  You dont like us having a thread like this then dont READ IT.  Oh my, seriuosly that is so hard for you isnt it.  you seem like the type you gotta win at everything even a stupid conversation like this.  I can guarantee you will write back with somethin snazzy.

Before MMOs became mainstream, those of us playing them voted....themepark was it. WoW just cemented the standing to the Nth degree. Granted  they turned down the difficutly further than I do when playing a FPS...but it is what it is. I realize you are butt-hurt over my calling out the PRECioUs, but there is a reason no one else wanted to playSWG. Well save for the handfull holding multiple accounts, and all singing in unison "Koster is God, and Brad is da Debil".

8 ) yeah thats why so many of the theme park games that have come out since WOW have done so well right?  yeah its because its what everybody wants right?  LOL... no man.. if people want theme park MMO.. might as well play WOW... thats been the problem and its also why this era right now is nicknamed the dark age of gaming right now.  No MMO is good out right now.

That reason of course isSWG was a steaming pile of chit.

opinions opinions.   its still an opinion.  you say chit and i say great.  so glad you think so.  But i disagree... however i bet you arent man enough to accept someone elses opinion.

I get the feeling some of you vets are going to really be upset when you see what a good SWG MMO draws in sub numbers. Who knows, maybe I can get another SWG former player, or three, stalking me like the clown that "video blogs for the vets cause while in makeup" has been doing over the last couple of months. I am sure you guys have seen his report linked in your vet forums.

LOL upset over you... nah, you have definitely shown your true colors.. no need to.  just waiting for your snazzy comeback.  showing those true colors out.

 

And lastly....going back to your 50k subs statement: 

9 ) dude, it is a statement.. and pretty much a true one... there are games out right now.. that only have about 50k subs and still running... maybe even less... and they are making enough and are still alive.  so you are arguing with a fact?  i just made a statement thats all?  meaning you dont need tons of money to keep a game running.

If you expect a company to make a game for 50k subs, then why in all Hell arent you guys supporting the Indy houses? 50k subs will NEVER EVER EVER....yes I said NEVER EVER....get a AAA sandox title made. The initial cost wouldnt warrant the return. Darkfall/MO/Ryzom and a few others could use the attention/subs. Instead those of us interested in themepark games, like TOR, get to listen to you guys cry cause there arent any new AAA sandboxes being launched.

never said this did I?  dude seriuosly i think you just love arguing... but anwyay, i await your snazzy comeback

 

10 )  P.S. by the way, about your beloved theme park... you can only ride the same rollercoaster so much before it begins to be boring.

 

 

 

 

mine are in BLUE

 For someone that belongs in the sandbox camp, you sure arent the epitome of a "bright" person.

1 )  I didnt dictate what human nature is. Society as a whole are consumers. I dont have to substantiate my claim with anything other than sub numbers.....sandboxes are lacking vs themepark games.

2 ) Again sheer brilliance at work....reading comprehension would of made you realize I meant a noob to MMO gaming. It grew from onset? Um I dont believe so skippy. A slight deviation around the 300k mark, and started dropping off after a few months. Nothing to indicate a sustained pattern.

3 ) Wrong and wrong. Played for a few weeks during CU, and couldnt stand it. Being an EQ player, I dont know where you get off claiming I want "easy mode" gaming. There was a heck of a lot more content in EQ than there was in SWG.

4 ) I dont think so. I ran all over Tat, and it was as barren as could be save player built structures. You do that in EQ, and there will be various areas to fight mobs in. A number of which offer unique loot for completing said content.

5 ) Do you even know what "straw man" means? Google it. Your insistance that I am attempting to talk for everyone down to the claim of "I enjoy easy mode themeparks" are all straw man attacks. They give you a non-factual basis/position to attack my comments over.

6 )  I mentioned EQ pertaining to sub numbers....and you went off on a tangent about AC. Which would be evident if you hadnt wiped the original posts. Dont even try to compare our responses.

7 )  This thread was in a forum I participate in. I wouldnt be partaking in the vet forum, but figured I would clear a few things up. Had this thread been in this forum, where it belongs, I wouldnt of bothered responding to it. SWG didnt bother me so much. Didnt like it, so didnt play it. Was dissapointed it was a roleplay paradise, but seeing as I had a MMO it didnt matter.

 It is the actions of the vets these past 5 yrs that have drawn my disdain.  There is a  regular in this forum... (one who does a video blog, dressed as a clown)... that has contacted my teenage daughter at least 2 times on Facebook/myspace in a basic cyrberstalking act. Next time gets him a run in with the poiice.  He isnt the only one that makes me scratch my head. IMO several vets have been overdue a forced intervention with DR Phil for yrs now.

8 ) in prior posts I listed 5 themepark MMOs that held a sustained count of 300k+ NA subs for year(s). ONly one sandbox has done the same. It is ROLEPLAY vs ROLLPLAY....what do folks enjoy. I say the subs indicate folks enjoy ROLLPLAY more. We have seen a bunch of games launch without polish/content/what-have-you do bad...sure. You think folks should pay for games like STO/WAR/whatever?  When TOR launches, it is going to shoot past EVE basically overnight. Not to mention dwarfing the numbers SWG pulled in. Even though STO and WAR(wast WAR PVP based?) didnt hold subs, they each sold their share of boxes...earning the investors back a good chunk of money.

9 ) 50k subs for a game that has been out for 6 or 7 yrs, and did good during its prime,  is fine....life support mode. If you think a new launch, with 50k subs, is going to cut it for a AAA title you are nutz.. Which is what a number of sandboxers demand....a AAA title. As you had indicated, 50k subs is fine....it isnt.  It makes no senes from an investors standpoint.

10 ) I have played one themepark(MMO for that matter) for more than about 6 -8  weeks...that was EQ1(01 til 06). We had an expansion every 6 months, so no clue where your claim of running out of content comes from. An open world themepark allows the Devs to reconfigure existing areas, and add to it. If they wish, they can add all new areas. Where as SWG devs spent their time trying to rebalance/fix things constantly. I believe JTL and RoW were only 2 expansions before NGE(ToOW launched like 2 weeks before NGE), and JTL was an add-on game....thus one expansion in 2 yrs for ground portion.

Originally posted by vesavius

The whole reason SOE enacted the NGE was because no one was playing this damned game, despite having one of the strongest IPs on the market.

If as many people had played as now whinge about it they wouldnt ever have had to do it.

Pre-CU game was packed with people. Every major city you went to was loaded.  Once they got people to move out of them, it turned the game into many small communities and that's what ruined it for me.   If they "SOE" concentrated on improving the game instead of completely changing it, it would be a top MMO now.   What's dissapointing is that SWG-PreCU look's more legit than SWToR.  I like Star Wars games but I don't think I'll be playing a MMO one till it's complex and detailed like SWG Pre-CU.

Originally posted by Moaky07

 

 For someone that belongs in the sandbox camp, you sure arent the epitome of a "bright" person.

LOL strawman attacks you say huh?  you are really doing it... hint hint... look at your own writing

 

1 )  I didnt dictate what human nature is. Society as a whole are consumers. I dont have to substantiate my claim with anything other than sub numbers.....sandboxes are lacking vs themepark games.

umm the only reason they are lacking is because companies right now think they need to be theme park and have failed consistently.  not many games right now are doing well that are theme parks.  thats why LOTRO is moving free to play.  Theme park is only fun for so long then gets boring.

 

2 ) Again sheer brilliance at work....reading comprehension would of made you realize I meant a noob to MMO gaming. It grew from onset? Um I dont believe so skippy. A slight deviation around the 300k mark, and started dropping off after a few months. Nothing to indicate a sustained pattern.

next time say it for MMO... your reference to SWG showed otherwise.  And No i have been playing since the EQ, UO and AC days.  Played just about every MMO out there.  i think it is you who is more noobish to MMOs because you seem to be the one pointing out that sandbox is not wanted.. wrong.. there are people who do. 

 

3 ) Wrong and wrong. Played for a few weeks during CU, and couldnt stand it. Being an EQ player, I dont know where you get off claiming I want "easy mode" gaming. There was a heck of a lot more content in EQ than there was in SWG.

ahh so the truth comes out... you never even played PRE CU?  so how can you claim what its like?  you played the CU?  hell you didnt even know how many subs there were in PRE CU... yet you sit here and say... oh no the game was crap at launch.. and now admit that you just played a few weeks during CU?  LOL

you are too funny man.  who is the one being bitter here when he hasnt even played SWG at launch and made all these claims that SWG was crap at launch.    we can end this conversation right here.  YOU DONT HAVE A CLUE about SWG.  You have no first hand knowledge obviously. 

 

4 ) I dont think so. I ran all over Tat, and it was as barren as could be save player built structures. You do that in EQ, and there will be various areas to fight mobs in. A number of which offer unique loot for completing said content.

 sucks for you then... maybe you were on a low pop server.. but on bloodfin.. it was quite packed right up to NGE.  During PRE CU.. it was packed...you can go to Player cities and see people standing around doing stuff... once the NGE was announced... lots of poeple left... the place did become a barren.

5 ) Do you even know what "straw man" means? Google it. Your insistance that I am attempting to talk for everyone down to the claim of "I enjoy easy mode themeparks" are all straw man attacks. They give you a non-factual basis/position to attack my comments over.

i know what staw man means you dork.  And i see where your education comes from.  google right?  LOL.  So you are one of those type of people you have a google window open and beleive everything you read on google right?  LOL  and yes theme parks are meant to be easy... its pretty simple in nature.. you stand in line.. get on the ride and have fun... no figuring anything out... just have fun... its linear most of the times.. hence why WOW has done so well.  Nobody needs a brain cell to play it.  all areas are pretty straight forward as to what level you need to be for that area.  nothing hard about it.  but you seem to think differently... again YOUR OPINION... this is MY OPINION.  but thanks for showing that you cant accept others opinions.

 

6 )  I mentioned EQ pertaining to sub numbers....and you went off on a tangent about AC. Which would be evident if you hadnt wiped the original posts. Dont even try to compare our responses. 

no you mention quests from EQ too.. you need to learn to read what you write.  doesnt matter if i wipe your quoted messages.. the original is still in this thread.. but i guess thats hard for you to look back huh?  you know those little numbers down at the bottom turn pages right? LOL

 

7 )  This thread was in a forum I participate in. I wouldnt be partaking in the vet forum, but figured I would clear a few things up. Had this thread been in this forum, where it belongs, I wouldnt of bothered responding to it. SWG didnt bother me so much. Didnt like it, so didnt play it. Was dissapointed it was a roleplay paradise, but seeing as I had a MMO it didnt matter.

good for you... the exit is that way----------------->

 It is the actions of the vets these past 5 yrs that have drawn my disdain.  There is a  regular in this forum... (one who does a video blog, dressed as a clown)... that has contacted my teenage daughter at least 2 times on Facebook/myspace in a basic cyrberstalking act. Next time gets him a run in with the poiice.  He isnt the only one that makes me scratch my head. IMO several vets have been overdue a forced intervention with DR Phil for yrs now.

LOL control your kid then... you blame one person who is stalking your daughter on SWG?  you are saying that all vets are like this?  YOu do realize they had a news release about how the police were in EQ at one point trying to catch pedifiles in EQ... setting up stings and stuff.  does that mean all EQ players are pedifiles?  if you scratch your head maybe you should check it for lice... but i think you are hilarious that you would even think of a TV psychologist would help anybody. 

LOL dude seriously you are on a roll here man.  google, stalker, and now a TV psychologist?  LOL  man i cant even respond anymore this is just too hilarious.

 

8 ) in prior posts I listed 5 themepark MMOs that held a sustained count of 300k+ NA subs for year(s). ONly one sandbox has done the same. It is ROLEPLAY vs ROLLPLAY....what do folks enjoy. I say the subs indicate folks enjoy ROLLPLAY more. We have seen a bunch of games launch without polish/content/what-have-you do bad...sure. You think folks should pay for games like STO/WAR/whatever?  When TOR launches, it is going to shoot past EVE basically overnight. Not to mention dwarfing the numbers SWG pulled in. Even though STO and WAR(wast WAR PVP based?) didnt hold subs, they each sold their share of boxes...earning the investors back a good chunk of money.

 umm i gave you a list of sandboxes that were quite successful for a very long time and you keep dismissing them... im not repeating myself.  you tell me i need to learn to read... hmmm are you sure its me that needs to learn?

9 ) 50k subs for a game that has been out for 6 or 7 yrs, and did good during its prime,  is fine....life support mode. If you think a new launch, with 50k subs, is going to cut it for a AAA title you are nutz.. Which is what a number of sandboxers demand....a AAA title. As you had indicated, 50k subs is fine....it isnt.  It makes no senes from an investors standpoint. for the last time.. stop putting words into my writing.. LEARN TO READ... i was referencing something not gonna repeat myself.. I NEVER SAID 50k WAS ALRIGHT FOR SUBS on a AAA release... holy cow man.... seriuosly LEARN TO READ

10 ) I have played one themepark(MMO for that matter) for more than about 6 -8  weeks...that was EQ1(01 til 06). We had an expansion every 6 months,

yes the only way a theme park can survive is rob you of more money and give you an expansion... we are talking about SOE you know... the greediest company on the face of the earth. 

so no clue where your claim of running out of content comes from.

never said run out of content... LOL you need to learn to read.... i said as with all theme parks... you can ride the same ride for so long till it gets boring.  how does that correlate to content?  meaning you went thru all these areas did the quests... did you make another character?  or did you just hang on to just one? 

An open world themepark allows the Devs to reconfigure existing areas, and add to it.

as does sandboxes.. they do the same... but again thats not the sandboxes fault if the company doesnt do it. 

If they wish, they can add all new areas.

yeah in SWG they added planets... and your point is?  so theme parks are not the only type of game where you can add stuff....

Where as SWG devs spent their time trying to rebalance/fix things constantly.

thats has nothing to do with sandbox concept.., that has to do with SOE being a horrible company

I believe JTL and RoW were only 2 expansions before NGE(ToOW launched like 2 weeks before NGE), and JTL was an add-on game....thus one expansion in 2 yrs for ground portion.

actually JTL was suppose to be in at 6 months from launch... but SOE pumped out the game before it was ready.  nobody disagrees that SOE was a horrible gaming company... look what they did to their fans by putting out NGE.  JTL was within the first year the game came out.

Rotw was within the 2nd year... and ToOW was within the 3rd year.. i dont see how this is bad to pump out an expansion each year... and still do all the publishes they did.

if you played at launch you would of known that for awhile.. .SOE did ACTS... yeah that was FREE content.  and it was great content.  and it made a difference to your side... imperial or rebel by how many completed on your side.  each side tried to beat the other before the next ACT came out. 

they stopped after the third one because SOE got greedy and pumped out the JEDI to entice more players to join SWG.  just before christmas.  THEN at christmas gave out free holocrons.  the whole holocron grinding craze happened.  Causing many to leave because it was destroying the community that once was great.. that was within the first 6 months.  SWG was doing quite well in its first 6 months.  SOE is the one who shot itself in the foot... not SWG.  the game was good.  it had bugs but come publish 14 just before CU they were making nice advancements on balancing the classes.

but we all know what happened after the CU hit.  you didnt play PRE CU.  SO you have NO clue what the game was like and to be honest.  You can not sit there and act like you do.  hell only playing a couple weeks and think you know the game?  LOL...

you dont know crap about SWG.

 here you go:  

Subscriber numbers

Veteran designer, Raph Koster, helmed the development and initial launch of the game. Many industry professionals expected that the subscription numbers would exceed the one million mark, a feat accomplished only thus far in Asia by MMORPGs such as Lineage. Based on NPD figures as of February 2004, SWG sold more than 400,000 boxed copies at retail for a total initial revenue of over $18 million. Sony Online Entertainment confirmed in March 2004 that there were well over 200,000 monthly subscribers making it the 2nd largest MMORPG in North America.GameSpy.com - Article The company later reported in 2004 that they had 250,000 subscribers. Article : Corpnews Error In August 2005, Sony Online Entertainment reported that they had now sold 1,000,000 boxed copies of the game.Star Wars Galaxies sales top a million units // News // GamesIndustry.biz Media sources reported that the subscriber numbers have fallen substantially since the release of the CU and the NGE.Star Wars Galaxies : Pursuit of a Mythical Audience - Star Wars Galaxies for PC at MMORPG.COM Virtual Worlds #7: When Galaxies Implode - Video Game Feature - Yahoo! Video Games In early 2006 after the NGE, allegedly "hacked" numbers purported to show that only 10,363 subscribers were playing on a particular Friday night.

Originally posted by Elikal

I don't know why people are so obsessed with pre-CU. CU was a great move. COmbat before CU meant endless standing in medic buff lines, which just was absurd.

Just because the system had some flaws, doesn't mean the core of the game wasn't great.  The player interdependance was a good thing for community building, but it needed a lot of work.  Hell the whole game needed a lot of work in to many areas to name.

It could also have greatly benefitted from some real content.  Be it quests, "dungeons" or whatever, there needed to be more tools for players to interact with the world.  Yeah the game was lacking in content, but it didn't need the combat upgrade to fix that, it just needed the developer to make the right choices about how to fix the game.

That in essence is the root problem of the entire game.  It was released way to early and has always been incomplete as a result of many bad choices.  Pre-CU and CU were abandonded before they were ever given the needed fixes to make the game work. 

Originally posted by vesavius

The whole reason SOE enacted the NGE was because no one was playing this damned game, despite having one of the strongest IPs on the market.

If as many people had played as now whinge about it they wouldnt ever have had to do it.

Soe enacted the nge, because they are greedy.   People where whining about the game, because it was delivered incomplete and broken and soe never fixed it. 

Soe didn't have to do the NGE.  That was their choice.  They spent two years making expansions and redesigning the game instead of fixing the core game like all the players were begging for, only to wonder why people were leaving. 

Originally posted by saleen

Originally posted by vesavius

The whole reason SOE enacted the NGE was because no one was playing this damned game, despite having one of the strongest IPs on the market.

If as many people had played as now whinge about it they wouldnt ever have had to do it.

 

Pre-CU game was packed with people. Every major city you went to was loaded.  Once they got people to move out of them.

I am sure it was in it's early days.

Didnt last though, hence Lucasarts forcing the NGE.

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by vesavius

The whole reason SOE enacted the NGE was because no one was playing this damned game, despite having one of the strongest IPs on the market.

If as many people had played as now whinge about it they wouldnt ever have had to do it.

Soe enacted the nge, because they are greedy.  

nah, they did it because it was underperfoming massively for an MMO based on the biggest IP in the world.

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by vesavius

The whole reason SOE enacted the NGE was because no one was playing this damned game, despite having one of the strongest IPs on the market.

If as many people had played as now whinge about it they wouldnt ever have had to do it.

Soe enacted the nge, because they are greedy.  

 

nah, they did it because it was underperfoming massively for an MMO based on the biggest IP in the world.

Now its pushing daisy's.....

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by vesavius

The whole reason SOE enacted the NGE was because no one was playing this damned game, despite having one of the strongest IPs on the market.

If as many people had played as now whinge about it they wouldnt ever have had to do it.

Soe enacted the nge, because they are greedy.  

 

nah, they did it because it was underperfoming massively for an MMO based on the biggest IP in the world.

SWG Pre-CU was only underperforming if you compared it to WoW, which was a runaway success.. SOE wanted a bite of that apple and decided to revamp.. the numbers of players only started falling off with the introduction of the CU.. which was, imo, one of the biggest mistakes ever made, the game was never designed to be level based, and threw away quite a bit of what made the game original compared to other games that were available, the problem was that the people who were in charge of the game, didnt really understand what worked with it.. and what didnt.. probably because they were more at home with fantasy games.. when the NGE was dropped on the players, it was inevitable that the game would fail.. even the few days it was live on the test server drew massive.. i mean really massive. player disproval.. for them to go ahead with it.. wasnt just a gamble.. it was an act of colossal stupidity.. probably ego driven.. SOE paid the price.. their still paying it, because now nobody really trusts them or believes they can deliver.. and the current games they have only serve to sustain that image. SOE.. seem to have fallen off the learning curve..

If they brought back the original SWG (with some bug fixes..lol) I would go back in a heart beat and would not play TOR. The classes were better, the structure system was better the original Jedi system (with perma-death) was better.

Alas...

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by saleen

Originally posted by vesavius

The whole reason SOE enacted the NGE was because no one was playing this damned game, despite having one of the strongest IPs on the market.

If as many people had played as now whinge about it they wouldnt ever have had to do it.

 

Pre-CU game was packed with people. Every major city you went to was loaded.  Once they got people to move out of them.

 

I am sure it was in it's early days.

Didnt last though, hence Lucasarts forcing the NGE.

A) Many soe employees have flat out admitted the NGE was their idea and not a mandate from lucas arts.

B) If Lucas Art forced soe to make a change that cost the company tens of millions of dollars each year and caused untold damage to their reputation, I am fairly certain soe would have sued lucas arts.

C) It didn't last, because soe was unable to make a functional version of the game with three attempts at it. 

I loved SWG. Easily the keeper of the majority of my great MMO memories. But I wouldn't touch it if they re-released it. For me, at least, hindsight makes everything seem better than it really was. The players are what made this game, not the game itself.

It was buggy, thin on features (for a long time it was not the game I thought I was buying), and I think rubber banding  and rollbacks were rampant for a year or two more than it should have been. I mean does anyone actually remember being a BH and having to walk to your target due to lack of faster travel, then to finally find him in the middle of a rock, untargetable? I sure do.

All this pre-CU talk has always eluded the fact that the combat was never actually all that good. It had potential and vision, but never implementation.

That being said, update and modernize this game from a tech perspective, polish the hell out of it, maybe even allow a competent group to run it and I'd be back to live in the world again. It would have no bearing on SW:TOR for me, I'd play both.

A couple other things I'd love, now that we're in Never Never Land (I'll try to keep them SWG related):

- Expanded JTL content to actually keep things fresh. Some faction PvP incentives would have really done a lot I think. Something like taking over space stations and controlling access to certain planets.

-Ship boarding/PvP

-Less to no Jedi. I'd take no, if it means less. Sure, they are iconic and who doesn't want to be one- but now we have SW:TOR, eh?

Guess I should go back to work.