Naw, fighting corillian butterflies for enough money to fly to dath to get quest grind groups wasn't all the enjoyable. I only wish they brought back pre-CU for the creature handling only and only if it was first 2 weeks of game pre-CU so I could get Ancient Bull Rancors again. Otherwise naw, not worth it at this point in time. It has lost its luster, and I have moved on. Similarly to other games that have gone through major revamps it just isn't worth going back to the precursor at this point in time.

Originally posted by Deewe

Would you still play TOR?

 

Guess no but interested in your opinion...

 

[Mod edit]

SWG pre CU is just hold hat...

SWTOR is a must in reality , vast ammounts of content already and more we don't know about to come. SWG is dated and empty.

Saying "no I would never play the PRECioUs" just doesnt do it the justice it deserves.

How about "Are you out of your F-ing mind?".....ayup that conveys my sentiment pretty well.

A 150M game, that has been in production for several yrs, and should be very polished with plenty of content.

vs

A bugged out game, where the focus was on virtual reality/roleplay. Not chit to do for those that prefer ROLLplay to ROLEplay.

Do you really even need to ask? My God, SWG couldnt pull more subs than EQ1, and this game will dwarf the both of them combined.

Your hero, Raph Koster, couldnt beat out EQ in 2 games(UO and SWG), and his Metaplace bombed hard. There is a reason for that....his ideas on gaming are not what is selling subs in the genre MMORPG.com services. I dont think he would know "fun" if it ran up and kicked him in the Daddy-bags.  After getting his tale kicked here, he ran off for greener pastures in Facebook apps.

At least what he thought would be a better area for him. He couldnt beat out EQ in this niche genre, and he couldnt run with the big dogs(Farmville) at Facebook. His company was bought out in the last few weeks. Raph told me here on MMORPG that Facebook was the future. Well Raph maybe you are right, only it sure isnt your future eh? At least not as far as owning your own company goes I would say.

Maybe now he could come back to MMORPGs, and create a game entitled "Tradeskills and Roleplay". Seeing as him, and those that worship his games believe they are musts for gaming, perhaps those folks would support him this time around. Better yet, we wouldnt be forced to see his craptastic games mentioned anymore. Bonus.

FYI the vet forums are that way------->

Don't even joke about that.

Originally posted by Deewe

Would you still play TOR?

 

Guess no but interested in your opinion...

 

[Mod edit]

 Without a doubt I'd still play SWTOR, pre CU/NGE or not.

It's not because it's SoE, I'm not one of the feeble minded who think SoE is out to get me and ruin my game time, the wife has that job, nope it's because SWTOR looks much more interesting and diverse, ok it's not so open ended but sandbox never appealed to me, give me a blank piece of paper and 10 mins later I'l still have a blank piece of paper, give me one that has lots of dots on it and I'l try to join them up to make a picture.

SWG was great in it's day, but that day has long long past, same as WoW's has, ppl are realising it ain't all that wonderful, and given that each expac just seems to take longer and longer and longer it's no wonder that the competition is starting to look pretty darn interesting right now.

End of 2010 and mid 2011 is going to be a pretty interesting time for us MMO players, lots of good AAA titles coming our way and ofc WoWs expac will eventually see the light of day, but fingers crossed ppl will have realised that even with Azeroth getting a complete make over, the game will still be the same old gearscore grind.

Originally posted by Deewe

Would you still play TOR?

No.

Most likely, I wouldn't play ANY other game.

No offense to ToR. Im sure it will be a good game BUT I would play pre cu swg over ANY other game.

Ive been looking for a pre cu style game since SoE dismantled it many years ago......in a galaxy far far away

I will never play another SOE game again. SO no. RIP. Let it go. It is dead. Play the E&^

if soe was to revert back to pre-cu. about 10% of the swg community would continue to play swg, that 10% will be the orriginal pre-cu beta guys who experienced the first 5 months of swg. the other 90% will convert to swtor, reason for this is simple. for the last 6 years soe simply havnt been able to maintain the epic game of swg to its highest standards. over the years the game has gradually got worse. not due to players moving on but because soe has continually made the game noob friendlier and friendlier over time..

this is the problem with most mmo's these guys are too busy altering their productive to please or try to please larger and more spread crowd of GAMERS. in my experience and humble oppinion, certain mmo's appeal to certain types of gamers, take eve online for instance. its not every ones cup of tea, but those players that love eve make eve the game it is today.

their simply isnt enough of an swg community left to contend with the new sw game being launched, secondly the new sw game is being created by bioware, a very well known and high qaulity game manufacturer.. sony ????? these guys make high-fi's as their main line, or atleast thats how the name sony started out.

i loved swg and still concider it to be one of if not the best available mmorpg still around, it utterly knocks the socks of the likes of wow and lord of the rings champions and statrek online. swg still offers the widest gaming experience among all mmorpg's at this present momment in time, it has a fantastic crafting and resource system great economy that players can get their hands dirty with and enough content to keep players occupied after all quests have been completed. it also has space combat and exploation along side its ground platform too. no other mmo does al these things side by side. swg is the only one in existance that offers all of this to a player.

its a shame soe are unable to fix their mistakes and return swg back to the top, when swtor is launched swg will either die a quite death or its software will become freeware and a number of fan mods will pop up.

swtor is set to replace the current sw-mmorpg although it is possible bioware will utterly screw swtor up, after all it is their very first attempt at creating an mmorpg. while kotor series and never winter knight series where great games, they was also single player foccussing on the individual player and the experience through story.. mmo's do not work this way!  mmo's are about the community and content and mechanics of the game, they are about virtual reality in a fantasy realisation. to achieve this you need content and you need to empower the community within the game.

so far bioware have included the dreaded companions system into the mmo. my heart missed a beat when i read about the companions. out of my experience companions remove and element from an mmo game, that element is the meaning of mmo itself. an mmo is not an mmo if you can play it on your own! adding companions just lessons the the game status as an mmo and relegates it to a lower and meagre single player experience.

when i play an mmo i play an mmo because its supposed to be massive and multiplayer and online community driven experience. these days, new mmo's are not stepping upto the mark of being a true mmorpg. startrek failed champions failed lord of the rings failed, wow isnt so bad, but not the greatest, wow does have a community and a feeling of mmo to it, wows problem is its relentless grind and rediculous craft system and childish graphics.

a good example of an mmo would be eve, while not every ones first choice the game empowers the players, it allows the players to truely have a belonging and purpose in the game world and it offers a level of freedom which is unmatched in any other mmo. sure the space combat is a bit point and clicky and im sure every one would like free flight, but on the whole player control aspect, their is very little in eve that a player cannot get his/her paws into.

i beleive all new mmo's should ave this level of depth content and feel. i concider this to be a good standard for all mmo's to aspire to. when i play eve i feel it has a reason to be played, its not just logging on to do nothing because  you have grinded all the quests away, in eve your imagination is the boundary.

i wish bioware the best of luck with swtor, but i doubt they will be able to deliver an mmorpg starwars game on the scale of swg. i have misgivings about biowares ability to create a community driven mmo.

after all mmo's are all about the community and what the community can bring to the game, the game is just an empty shell with out players.

Originally posted by someforumguy

If someone wanted to play preCU SWG, why would they play SW:TOR in the first place? Those two games cant be more different from each other. So if someone wants to play SW:TOR, its very likely they still want to do so if SOE brings back preCU.

Not to mention that preCU SWG will turn for most players into a snorefest very fast. Even for some of the vets who look back with melancholy. Lot of those players dont realise that their own expectations of a MMO have risen through time. preCU SWG simply wouldnt cut it nowadays. You would get sick of the same bugs and inbalance sooner then you might expect.

 

---  thy are not really different if you think about it, tey are both starwars mmo's, swg was at the time the best mmorpg available by a huge margin and still is is today compaired to most other mmo's. the only diffrence between swtor and swg is the time line and setting, they are both the same thing from the same game in the same galaxy and the same  franchise based of the same theme. infact swg is based of the orriginal concept of starwars and swtor is the new stuff thats been made up simply to continue pulling revenue from the name.

kotor is a new franchise barely 8 years old, and it is spawned from the starwars franchise, its like a continuation of a good film, it should have been called starwars VII Knights of the old republic, but it wasnt. reason is simple. its not part of the orriginal starwars concept and was used to fill a gap. sure i liked kotor and playing as a jedi was great fun having companions and all, but it wasnt really starwars, atleast not how i know starwars. starwars is episode 4,5,6 new hope, empire stikes back and return of the jedi. these are the real starwars concepts. the new films do the old films any justice at all and lower the value of the orriginal films.

in essence swtor, is the after effect of the orriginal epic stawars saga! its just a simple continuation of the orriginal success. its just like a new boyband singing beetles songs. no one really appreciates them for their hard work because they wasnt the orriginal creators! plus they havnt really put alot of hard work into it in the first place, the song was already written for them and most bands today mime their songs instead of singing them.

 

so swtor is nothing but a new band miming the old words of the orriginal songs in a new format. remakes never are as good as the orriginals.

but i could be proved wrong ;) it is bioware afterall.

 

if swtor doesnt meet the high standards of sony's swg, i will be sticking with swg! by standards im talkign playability content , freedom and feeling. its not enough to have pretty graphics and good animations. content is the most important thing in an mmorpg.

Originally posted by MMOrUS

Originally posted by Deewe

Would you still play TOR?

 

Guess no but interested in your opinion...

 

[Mod edit]

 Without a doubt I'd still play SWTOR, pre CU/NGE or not.

It's not because it's SoE, I'm not one of the feeble minded who think SoE is out to get me and ruin my game time, the wife has that job, nope it's because SWTOR looks much more interesting and diverse, ok it's not so open ended but sandbox never appealed to me, give me a blank piece of paper and 10 mins later I'l still have a blank piece of paper, give me one that has lots of dots on it and I'l try to join them up to make a picture.

SWG was great in it's day, but that day has long long past, same as WoW's has, ppl are realising it ain't all that wonderful, and given that each expac just seems to take longer and longer and longer it's no wonder that the competition is starting to look pretty darn interesting right now.

End of 2010 and mid 2011 is going to be a pretty interesting time for us MMO players, lots of good AAA titles coming our way and ofc WoWs expac will eventually see the light of day, but fingers crossed ppl will have realised that even with Azeroth getting a complete make over, the game will still be the same old gearscore grind.

 well said, too many new titles are rideing the same waves. its about time developers used their imaginations and gave us something new and unique rather than the usual grind fests they deliver.  for one im sick and tired of loading screens, having to wait for a loading bar to go from one end of the screen to the other before i can keep playing is like 15 years old in terms of tech, they need to pull their money driven heads out their butt holes and start programming again.

Then I will make a shrine for SoE in my closet. As for now, they still need to prove to me that they can do something right with their money.

Originally posted by pepsi1028

Then I will make a shrine for SoE in my closet. As for now, they still need to prove to me that they can do something right with their money.

 while soe are at the helm that simply isnt going to happen, the game will be pulled down before it gets fixed.

I actually laugh when people say they would get bored with SWG-PRE CU.  LOL... you really didnt know the game then.  There was too much to do.

was it buggy.. yes it was.. by publish 14... just before the CU... they had made HUGE fixes... the game was actually heading in a great direction.  They had fixed a LOT of overpoweredness ex. capping defenses.. and making secondary defenses according to the weapon you were carrying.

This game was so in depth.  Lets talk about what you could do in SWG-PRE CU.

make a guild with a guild hall. 

Build a city.. yes build it... lay it out the way you wanted.  as MAYOR.  You had the control of where people could lay their houses and beautify your city.  Cantina, hospital, city hall, Cloning center, Theatre, vehicle repair building, Starport, and various houses. 

now on top of laying down stuff to make your city beautiful.. you got to decorate the inside of all your buildings as well. 

how about this.. lay down a faction base and watch your rival guilds in nearby cities try and destroy it as you defend it.  as you try to do the same to theirs.

thats just housing and cities... lets not forget the unbelievable PLAYER ECONOMY... FULL player economy.  Nothing is sold by the game itself.  EVERYTHING is sold only by players.  This was probably the biggest draw and reason why so many stuck around.  making top quality armor and weapons was not an easy task as you need to look for good resources to make it. 

so harvesting for qaulity stuff was your aim.  and took time.  But it was fun.  you actually made a name for your store.. as you can have your own vendors.. name your store... people around the galaxy started to know our city because of our crafting was superb in our city.

the community interaction in SWG was by far the best in any game.  The game encouraged it.  needed to listen to a musician or watch a dancer to get rid of battle fatigue,  buffs you gained from them as well.  See a doctor to gain buffs as well. 

food and drinks that gave buffs and other things.  Spices that did different things as well. 

there were lots of things to go and get to upgrade your guys gear.. his armor and his weapons to "enhance" them.  quite a few ways too.  As a guild you can run through the DWB and try to get the BH pack...

it was hard to get.  Took a lot of coordination. 

PVP... was excellent.  By publish 14 it had improved immensely.. they made a lot of fixes.. but the promise of CU was to fix the broken classes.  However SOE had something different in mind because of the release of  WOW and its success.

game was far from boring.  There was TONS of things to do.  In fact, i spent minutes actually thinking of what i wanted to do.  I had 5 accounts with my bro. 

it was a great game and with time it would of improved.

in SWGs peak it had over 300k subs which back then was top notch.  

Originally posted by willvas

I actually laugh when people say they would get bored with SWG-PRE CU.  LOL... you really didnt know the game then.  There was too much to do.

was it buggy.. yes it was.. by publish 14... just before the CU... they had made HUGE fixes... the game was actually heading in a great direction.  They had fixed a LOT of overpoweredness ex. capping defenses.. and making secondary defenses according to the weapon you were carrying.

This game was so in depth.  Lets talk about what you could do in SWG-PRE CU.

make a guild with a guild hall. 

Build a city.. yes build it... lay it out the way you wanted.  as MAYOR.  You had the control of where people could lay their houses and beautify your city.  Cantina, hospital, city hall, Cloning center, Theatre, vehicle repair building, Starport, and various houses. 

now on top of laying down stuff to make your city beautiful.. you got to decorate the inside of all your buildings as well. 

how about this.. lay down a faction base and watch your rival guilds in nearby cities try and destroy it as you defend it.  as you try to do the same to theirs.

thats just housing and cities... lets not forget the unbelievable PLAYER ECONOMY... FULL player economy.  Nothing is sold by the game itself.  EVERYTHING is sold only by players.  This was probably the biggest draw and reason why so many stuck around.  making top quality armor and weapons was not an easy task as you need to look for good resources to make it. 

so harvesting for qaulity stuff was your aim.  and took time.  But it was fun.  you actually made a name for your store.. as you can have your own vendors.. name your store... people around the galaxy started to know our city because of our crafting was superb in our city.

the community interaction in SWG was by far the best in any game.  The game encouraged it.  needed to listen to a musician or watch a dancer to get rid of battle fatigue,  buffs you gained from them as well.  See a doctor to gain buffs as well. 

food and drinks that gave buffs and other things.  Spices that did different things as well. 

there were lots of things to go and get to upgrade your guys gear.. his armor and his weapons to "enhance" them.  quite a few ways too.  As a guild you can run through the DWB and try to get the BH pack...

it was hard to get.  Took a lot of coordination. 

PVP... was excellent.  By publish 14 it had improved immensely.. they made a lot of fixes.. but the promise of CU was to fix the broken classes.  However SOE had something different in mind because of the release of  WOW and its success.

game was far from boring.  There was TONS of things to do.  In fact, i spent minutes actually thinking of what i wanted to do.  I had 5 accounts with my bro. 

it was a great game and with time it would of improved.

in SWGs peak it had over 300k subs which back then was top notch.  

 Yes we get it....virtual reality gaming is your thing.

The same cannot be said for so many others in this subset, of the genre, that MMORPG.com services.

SWG had 300k at launch....and went downward pretty fast. In contrast, Everquest(which was an unknown IP) was holding 450k NA subs.

It made no sense what-so-ever for Koster to focus SWG around trades, when the majority of players are consumers of content....rather than simply looking to create.

You indicate there was so much to do....really? Correlion Corvette, and Jabba are the 2 things I hear mentioned most for PVE(I played 2 weeks during CU so unsure)....even if there were 3 or 4 more places....it still left a lot of nothing(sand to build in) out in the world.

Games like EQ used those areas to put PVE content in, and what do ya know, it sold like hotcakes.

EQ, EQ2, LoTRO, FFXI, and WoW are some of the games that have done PVE right....and what do ya know...they all have pretty much towered over sandbox games(EQ2 and LoTRO each were in the 300k area at one point).

Sandbox is not the present, nor is it the future. It is simply the beginning of MMOs, as there was nothing else to choose from until EQ launched.

Lastly....you had "5 accounts with my bro". This is a common theme among those that played SWG. Not just 2 accounts....but 5 or more. So how many folks do you think actually held the 200 to 250k subs? I would guess it was no more than 100k to 150k unique users....which further damns the appeal the game had to the masses.

Well, it is to late for SWG - very much to late and it will suck against TOR heavy regarding to the numder of the playerbase.

Beside that i cant understand why there is an attitude that a MMO has to be a themepark OR a sandbox game.

Even if one argues that themepark games have more players (and beside WoW and asian games this needs to be proven as i.e. Lotro has not more players then SWG had at its day) one must qestion if it would not be better to have the sandbox players in the boat too!

Why not strive to get the around 300k Themeparkgamers a new MMO can realistically target at AND get the 100k to 200k that will play a sandbox game and have a very healthy playerbase that is more stable at all bcs the foundation is more broad?

Its all about intelligent world design and a good concept that places the core elements in the game b4 its to late...

Originally posted by Moaky07

 

 Yes we get it....virtual reality gaming is your thing.  LOL reality?  we are talking about a player economy where what you do in game matters.. not like WOW or LOTRO where you craft but the items you get make your crafted item worthless?  yeah it made sense to be a crafter.. because it was needed.  I wouldnt call that a reality.  However you keep thinking of how gaming is reality.

  

The same cannot be said for so many others in this subset, of the genre, that MMORPG.com services.     so you speak for ALL the people here at MMORPG.com? 

 

SWG had 300k at launch....and went downward pretty fast. In contrast, Everquest(which was an unknown IP) was holding 450k NA subs.  actually see this is where you are wrong.. it didnt even start with 300k... it climbed as the months went by.  it wasnt till after christmas they handed out holocrons for christmas is when you started to see a decline because people couldnt stand to see all the hologrinders. and it snowballed from there.  and that was 6 months in you started to see declines.. but it still held a healthy amount of people.  and no i didnt have 5 accounts the entire time.  like i said it was sharing with my bro so basically i had like 2 1/2 accounts as you can only make 1 character... how many characters can you have in WOW... 8?  so i had 3... hmm

 

It made no sense what-so-ever for Koster to focus SWG around trades, when the majority of players are consumers of content....rather than simply looking to create.  really?  considering most still ask for a player economy like SWG... and what you might consider content doesnt mean that all do. 

 

You indicate there was so much to do....really? Correlion Corvette, and Jabba are the 2 things I hear mentioned most for PVE(I played 2 weeks during CU so unsure)....even if there were 3 or 4 more places....it still left a lot of nothing(sand to build in) out in the world.  ok lets talk about what you can do then... rebel theme park, imperial theme park, jabba themepark, correllian Corvette, Geo caves, Death watch bunker, lots of outside stuff like nightsister areas... opposing faction bases... I am sure im missing quite a few places as i havent played it in awhile. 

Games like EQ used those areas to put PVE content in, and what do ya know, it sold like hotcakes. LOL wonderful EQ did great.. i would rather play Asherons Call where the PVE was 10 times better.

EQ, EQ2, LoTRO, FFXI, and WoW are some of the games that have done PVE right....and what do ya know...they all have pretty much towered over sandbox games(EQ2 and LoTRO each were in the 300k area at one point).  LOL you truly believe that the quests in LOTRO, FFXI and WOW had great quests?  too funny, "oh please sir.. go kill this pig... and give me back my necklace... he is a mean pig... i will give you xp and money if you do." too funny....sorry go here kill 10 things and come back.. go here get 10 things and comeback are not good quests... LOL

 

Sandbox is not the present, nor is it the future. It is simply the beginning of MMOs, as there was nothing else to choose from until EQ launched.  says you... sandbox games leave a lot of things to do with lots of areas to be in... unlike WOW that chains their areas according to levels has a wasteland deadzone because of nobody at that level.  same with warhammer who tiered their areas.. .Tier 2 and 3 are barrenlands because nobody is in them.  that concept doesnt work for new players.. its why you see so many games taking this concept have the longevity of being nearly cancelled. 

i think its funny the way you stated that nothing else to choose from till EQ came out... LOL dude you do realize that merridian was the first true MMO but the first 3 top MMOs.. actually only MMOs that still run today.. are EQ, UO and AC.. there were no other MMOs to choose

UO was before EQ... 1 year later AC came out.  that was it.  so you are talkign about what otehr games?  i mean till EQ launched? 

 

Lastly....you had "5 accounts with my bro". This is a common theme among those that played SWG. Not just 2 accounts....but 5 or more. So how many folks do you think actually held the 200 to 250k subs? I would guess it was no more than 100k to 150k unique users....which further damns the appeal the game had to the masses.

not really, most i talked to only had 2 accounts... but again there were two players sharing.. so if it was by myself i would have had only 2... and again you can only make 1 character.... and most didnt start with more then 1 account man.. it was until they got hooked and bought another.  because it was an addicting game

and thats cool man you dont like SWG... i get it.... but thats your opinion... but dont think your opinion is the holy grail...

what you think is great i might not... and dont think that what you think is what everybody wants either.  Yeah i liked SWG.. it was a good game.. with more fixes the game would of been great.  But SOE only likes to make money not quality gaming.

they eventually started adding in more content.  Kahsykk came out just before CU... CU pushed a LOT of people out.  Because for one it wasnt what SOE told us about CU... they got greedy... wanted to dumb down the game for the new players.   Yes there was a learning curve for SWG... and i know a lot of players cant hack it.  well then we all know about NGE...

but dont sit there and bash SWG... it had quite the healthy population...

no game at this era had supreme numbers as there werent many players in the genre.  WOW is the one who brought the masses into the genre.  have their wonderful RTS to thank for.  considering its still one of the most popular played RTS still around the world.  Heck in China you do realize they have a tv show just for Warcraft RTS games.. yep you watch 2 guys playing the game.. passing secrets strategies etc.

but anyway, we know where you stand with SWG  thats cool not everybody can play it.  not everybody liked it.. but dont sit there and say that  nobody liked it... thats just not true...

and sandbox is still wanted.  you will find lots of people not wanting a theme park MMO... and by the way, you dont need millions to be a successful game... you do realize 50,000 subs is more then enough to keep a game running... heck i would even say less... as daoc is still making money and they are down to 1 server. 

Originally posted by Deewe

Would you still play TOR?

 

Guess no but interested in your opinion...

 

[Mod edit]

No, I wouldn't play TOR because of the kind of game they are making. It doesn't appeal to me. A relaunch of SWG wouldn't factor into that decision in any way. As I said before and that is now proving more evident this game is crafting light (on my list of standards which are all that matter to me) and placing a large focus on rolling a new class to see that angle of the "story" for level capping options.

As for said relaunch I wouldn't go back to it either. SOE already gave me the finger as a customer with the NGE and I have no desire to give them cash in any manner moving forward (that goes for the entire Sony company - no dvd players, tvs, ps3, etc.). It's their game to do with as they please but it's my decision on who I give hobby money to and there is no mandate that after a certain period you have to "get over" a company's choices. Again, I'm not "mad" or "angry". It's just a flat out they made their choice and I made mine. Move on.

Now, if another professional company bought SWG from SOE and relaunched pre nge SWG (or Pre cu, doesn't matter to me), well, then I would go back for sure.

They are very very different games, that being said if a pre-cu swg was running I wouldn't be playing any other games presently :)

Hey 2005 called and want's it's thread back!

But yes, I would go back if they reverted to pre-NGE....