It's not a new concept in gaming, it's been done before.  You would have a randomizer during the character-creation process that would create attribute levels for your character.  Once you got one you liked you would move on to the next phase in the creation process.

It would add a level of realism and uniqueness from the start to the experience.  If done in correlation with a dynamic storyline like Mr. Schilling has been discussing it would create a very different element not currently seen in MMO gaming.  Of course, the system would have to be done intelligently and creatively.

Originally posted by gehrig38

I'm a quest guy, always have been. Love to raid in a less than hardcore 24x7 get the best gear fashion. It's just  not something that makes me want to play. I love great quests, awesome worlds and the feeling of exploring a fantasy world.

That being said I honestly can't tell you much about any MMO story or lore beyond surface details of anything since EQ.

 

Why? IMO because it NEVER MATTERED to me. It NEVER affected my character or had my character effect 'it'.

That's one of our goals. In WoW you log out of Org on Monday, back in on Tuesday and what's changed? Players in the world, period.

Why would I care about story and lore and heroes and villains if they don't affect me, and I don't affect them?

What if they did? More importantly what if I did?

ugh Mr. Shilling i would love for you to be my boss, i've already sent you guys my resume and demo reel.

i think im just goin to have to save up a bunch of money do an unpaid internship and live out of my car if thats what it takes.

Originally posted by Thunderous

It's not a new concept in gaming, it's been done before.  You would have a randomizer during the character-creation process that would create attribute levels for your character.  Once you got one you liked you would move on to the next phase in the creation process.

 Ok, but if you're going to let people re-roll untill they get what they want wouldn't it be simpler to just give everyone a fixed number of points to assign in whatever way they want and save them all that re-rolling?  Maybe I'm missing something about your idea but it seems like it would end up the same either way.

Well the pain of re-rolling could be avoided if you have a randomizer set in character customization.  Maybe I'm in the minority, maybe not, but I think that as MMO games continue to evolve and become more "realistic" having a truly unique character is something that a lot of gamers would desire.  It would be nice to see race REALLY MATTER.  It would be nice to not to have to see everyone playing as the same build, it would be nice to see the genre advance itself.

The last five years have been a rinse-repeat of essentially crap title after crap title. 

Originally posted by Thunderous

Well the pain of re-rolling could be avoided if you have a randomizer set in character customization.  Maybe I'm in the minority, maybe not, but I think that as MMO games continue to evolve and become more "realistic" having a truly unique character is something that a lot of gamers would desire.  It would be nice to see race REALLY MATTER.  It would be nice to not to have to see everyone playing as the same build, it would be nice to see the genre advance itself.

The last five years have been a rinse-repeat of essentially crap title after crap title. 

 I'm not trying to say the concept is bad in and of itself.  However, the reality is that the vast majority of people would re-roll over and over again untill they got perfect or near perfect stats for whatever they wanted to do with their character.  The very few people who wouldn't do that and would accept less than perfect stats would basically be punished for their integrity.

You know, in pencil and paper games that sort of thing worked because your friends were sitting there saying, "No do-overs".  But that was a completely different thing.

Curt, like you also I am a quest guy.  Even when I played UO I did most not if all the player made quests and GM Events possible. In EQ, so many days of waiting for spawns it wasn't funny.  We even held a few player quests, killing (deleting of chars) and the ever so fun lvl 1 flagged naked gnomer run from Qeynos to Freeport ( like 200 or so people usually turned out). In EQ2 Defiance ran a few server quests also, I even won one =D

Originally posted by geesehoward

Originally posted by gehrig38

I'm a quest guy, always have been. Love to raid in a less than hardcore 24x7 get the best gear fashion. It's just  not something that makes me want to play. I love great quests, awesome worlds and the feeling of exploring a fantasy world.

That being said I honestly can't tell you much about any MMO story or lore beyond surface details of anything since EQ.

 

Why? IMO because it NEVER MATTERED to me. It NEVER affected my character or had my character effect 'it'.

That's one of our goals. In WoW you log out of Org on Monday, back in on Tuesday and what's changed? Players in the world, period.

Why would I care about story and lore and heroes and villains if they don't affect me, and I don't affect them?

What if they did? More importantly what if I did?

ugh Mr. Shilling i would love for you to be my boss, i've already sent you guys my resume and demo reel.

i think im just goin to have to save up a bunch of money do an unpaid internship and live out of my car if thats what it takes.

Rule #2:

When begging for a job be sure to spell your prospective new boss' name correctly. (Schilling)

Hahahahahahaha...

I'm just going say thank you to Curt for all the great responses and also thank the rest of the posters who've made this one of the best threads I've ever read in these forums. (and I've read a ton of threads, believe me)

Its restored my faith in humanity. 

Heck, I might even break my own rule and pre-order.

Nah!, Not yet anyway. 

Originally posted by donjn

I just really hope that Curt knows this is what a majority of us want:

• An open ended world, with no outdoor loading screens. Seemless.
• Skill based gameplay, rather than "you hit level 42, now pick your skills"
• A unique sandbox-like crafting system like Ryzom, SWG, etc..
• World PvP that is meaningful

Heck, if he includes ONE OR TWO of these things, he will succeed. That's how bad it is these days..

Thats what you want. There are millions of mmo players now to claim anyone knows what the majority would want is pointless.

I hope the news on this game comes soon. With the people behind it Im hoping it does well.

Originally posted by Kyleran

I'm just going say thank you to Curt for all the great responses and also thank the rest of the posters who've made this one of the best threads I've ever read in these forums. (and I've read a ton of threads, believe me)

Its restored my faith in humanity. 

Heck, I might even break my own rule and pre-order.

Nah!, Not yet anyway. 

 

 I have to agree.  I'm a bit taken aback at how civil and levelheaded everyone is being in this thread.It's also nice to see Curt responding to posters and being straight and honest in his feedback.

Definitely one of the few threads that stands out to me from this forum in some time.

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by Kyleran

I'm just going say thank you to Curt for all the great responses and also thank the rest of the posters who've made this one of the best threads I've ever read in these forums. (and I've read a ton of threads, believe me)

Its restored my faith in humanity. 

Heck, I might even break my own rule and pre-order.

Nah!, Not yet anyway. 

 

 I have to agree.  I'm a bit taken aback at how civil and levelheaded everyone is being in this thread.It's also nice to see Curt responding to posters and being straight and honest in his feedback.

Definitely one of the few threads that stands out to me from this forum in some time.

There were one or two efforts to start the name calling and prodding but yes, maturity did seem to raise it's head this time around and those folks baiting attempts were ignored (as they well should be).

While I can't say I've gone Pig on this one (re: comitted to buying it) I will remain Chicken (involved) and listen to what 38 Studios has to offer with Copernicus. Even if I don't prefer what I see out of the MMO there's still the chance I may buy the single player RPG that is offered.

I will definitely be playing Mercury -- PS3 version assuming it comes out on that platform.  I've really taken to single-player games the last few years as they seem to be games that are showing the most innovation.

As long as Copernicus isn't the level/class grind-mess that every other MMO is I will be giving it a shot as well too most likely.  It seems like Curt has a damn good vision of what a lot of us would like to see in online gaming.  Being in the financial advisory industry I realized long ago that a lot of companies have money, that most are tough to deal with and it almost ALWAYS starts at the top, filters down.  I'll support Curt's project with my modest purchase and subscription because it's clear that he truly cares about his product and that is far too rare these days.

It's good to see companies like 38 Studios.

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by Kyleran

I'm just going say thank you to Curt for all the great responses and also thank the rest of the posters who've made this one of the best threads I've ever read in these forums. (and I've read a ton of threads, believe me)

Its restored my faith in humanity. 

Heck, I might even break my own rule and pre-order.

Nah!, Not yet anyway. 

 

 I have to agree.  I'm a bit taken aback at how civil and levelheaded everyone is being in this thread.It's also nice to see Curt responding to posters and being straight and honest in his feedback.

Definitely one of the few threads that stands out to me from this forum in some time.

I couldn't agree more Wicked and Kyleran.  This thread should be the standard.

Thanks to Curt and the Community for a great discussion!

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Originally posted by geesehoward

Originally posted by gehrig38

I'm a quest guy, always have been. Love to raid in a less than hardcore 24x7 get the best gear fashion. It's just  not something that makes me want to play. I love great quests, awesome worlds and the feeling of exploring a fantasy world.

That being said I honestly can't tell you much about any MMO story or lore beyond surface details of anything since EQ.

 

Why? IMO because it NEVER MATTERED to me. It NEVER affected my character or had my character effect 'it'.

That's one of our goals. In WoW you log out of Org on Monday, back in on Tuesday and what's changed? Players in the world, period.

Why would I care about story and lore and heroes and villains if they don't affect me, and I don't affect them?

What if they did? More importantly what if I did?

ugh Mr. Shilling i would love for you to be my boss, i've already sent you guys my resume and demo reel.

i think im just goin to have to save up a bunch of money do an unpaid internship and live out of my car if thats what it takes.

Rule #2:

When begging for a job be sure to spell your prospective new boss' name correctly. (Schilling)

Opps LOL! sorry about that

Originally posted by Surfrider

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by Kyleran

I'm just going say thank you to Curt for all the great responses and also thank the rest of the posters who've made this one of the best threads I've ever read in these forums. (and I've read a ton of threads, believe me)

Its restored my faith in humanity. 

Heck, I might even break my own rule and pre-order.

Nah!, Not yet anyway. 

 

 I have to agree.  I'm a bit taken aback at how civil and levelheaded everyone is being in this thread.It's also nice to see Curt responding to posters and being straight and honest in his feedback.

Definitely one of the few threads that stands out to me from this forum in some time.

 

I couldn't agree more Wicked and Kyleran.  This thread should be the standard.

Thanks to Curt and the Community for a great discussion!

Surfrider, do you know if MMORPG.com did an interview with 38 Studios while at E3?  I've been hoping to see an article here about that, if so.

Originally posted by Rohn

Surfrider, do you know if MMORPG.com did an interview with 38 Studios while at E3?  I've been hoping to see an article here about that, if so.

I don't, but will check.

Originally posted by Surfrider

Originally posted by Rohn

Surfrider, do you know if MMORPG.com did an interview with 38 Studios while at E3?  I've been hoping to see an article here about that, if so.

I don't, but will check.

Thanks much!  :)

curt, any baseball predictions for this year?

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

I don't see why he needs to "hold his horses". If the guy doesn't post what he likes (and he isn't the only one) how on earth is he ever going to be able to have a chance and a modern made game possessing some or all of those qualities?

Out of the 4 listed I don't see how any of those are contradictory. I can see how some would take more thought and work to implement well and as challeneges are meant to be overcome it can be conquered. It just comes down to will and planning.

 What is contradictory is the asumption that is "what the majority wants".  Just because it sounds great or what you or I are looking for in a game does not mean that is what the majority feels.

Ah, well, maybe he should have left that part out. Aside from those 4 words, however, his post was perfectly fine and very relative to the current climate.

It just makes me wonder a bit that if Curt and 38 Studios is aiming for just another themepark game chasing after WoW numbers as opposed to going after a niche, making it their own and then growing it, why bother bringing in Salvatore and McFarlane. If you aren't striving for something with more depth, and I means actually manifesting the answers to the questions "why? and "how?" via game mechanics, why bring these big names on commanding big salaries?

Don't know what kind of player Curt was, though, just from reading the interviews of him talking about gaming so it's hard to envision what he values in a gaming experience or to gauge how sensitive he is to those desires of others.

(no offence by me talking about you in third person Mr. Schilling (cause obviously you are reading this forum at some time, heh) but I'm not going to presume that you will answer these questions directly)

I want to re-iterate that I, personally, prefer skill based systems to class based systems and do enjoy the features the oringal post I responed to asked for.

But:

1) That is not necessarily the majority of people

2) There ARE problems with skills based systems.

One of the problems with skill based systems is balance and polish.  It is simply much easier to control and test a class system.  It is easier for PvP balance.  It is easier for group content balance and easier for players to form groups.  You have much more of a known quantity.

Structure has its advantages.  Free men are not equal and equal men are not free.  This is a maxim that is hard to get around.  These things can be double edged swords.  I think CoH has done an interesting job with its Archetypes and power sets in trying to have a bit of both freedom and constrained roles, but I don't know of any game or even RPG system that has been able to skirt that maxim.

I highly encourage people to be very very careful about what you ask a Developer to do (speaking as a software engineer). 

When you ask for a skill based system and then ask for PvP with a high degree of polish and balance you are setting the bar VERY VERY high.  Even with Guild Wars, which is much better balanced than many MMOs, they still use classes to some degree and have hard 8 skill limit to aid in balancing skills.  Extreme openended-ness rarely results in anything even resembling balance.  It probably theoretically can, but its been spotty at best.

Secondly in the broader context of more recent posts I would like to say that I personally am not a huge sandbox person.  I like the idea of being able to affect the world from a stroy point of view but in general for day to day fun I like to have directed activities.  There are some interestng hybrid sandbox things that can be regularly fun.  For example control points in Tabula Rasa were great.  A  sort of PvE sandbox thing that you could reliably goto and affects to state of the world to some degree.

So while I prefer skills based highly customizable character building of the type you find in many sandbox games I am not really a true sandbox player I don't want all or even most content left up to the player.  I just want to do things MY WAY.

Also highly customizable system do not need to be skills based.  CoH is highly customizable and not skill based.  In some sense it is more customizable than many skills baseds system which tend to a cookie cutter effect in practice if not theory.

Mr. Schilling,

I truly hope your game doesn't suck monkey-balls.

Very Respectfully,

38 Studios to Reveal Mercury at Comic Con

Please be good.  No, please be GREAT.  This is, after all, our introduction to the Copernicus IP.

Sure is. That sound you hear is me letting a HUGE gulp of air out, finally seeing a chance to breath, and talk:)

GL at Comic Con Curt.

Much appreciated. Going to be AWESOME to finally be able to speak to what's actually happening!