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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Rebuttal to Argument: I like cash shops because my time is money!

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127 posts found
  Lester_Creech

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/06/10
Posts: 520

Feliz seria que hora

6/16/10 4:50:25 PM#81

  first of all, we are primarily discussing content.  you and your friends are not the superbowl, guess why:  MILLIONS OF UPGRADES TO ALL FEATURES THAT HAD TO BE PURCHASED WITH MONEY.  throwing a pigskin around with a couple of friends is free, but its hardly serious competition. and, are you saying you'd pay a monthly fee to do so? i dont get your point.

if some one wanted to buy an expensive helmet just for playing with his friends, are you saying he shouldnt be allowed to? or that its somehow wrong?  i say its up to him, and luckily, much of our society agrees with me.

  whpsh

Novice Member

Joined: 4/02/06
Posts: 198

6/16/10 5:10:08 PM#82

Unfortunately, you've kind of proven the point you stood against.

Is it wrong to buy an expensive helmet? Of course not.

Is it wrong if he then uses that helmet to smash into people during a friendly? Yes. Is it wrong to pay your steroid junkied friend to play for you? Yes. Is it wrong to bring a chainsaw to the game? Or a gun? Yes

You'd say no to all those. Since you can buy it, why not?

  Lester_Creech

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/06/10
Posts: 520

Feliz seria que hora

6/16/10 5:16:53 PM#83

i dont think any of those things are wrong. if i cant compete with my friends awsome steroid helmet, and asking him not to use it doesent work, i have to get my own, or not play. and im fine with that.  if things ever do become too costly, people will stop buying, and prices will drop. it is somewhat cyclic., but it works.

like i said, in a PvP focused game, devs would be commiting suicide by only offering paying customers the means to victory. since the devs want both sides of any conflict to be paying and happy, they will likely shy away from power item oriented sales, and more towards activity/appearance content.  as y'know, driving people away from your product is bad for business.

  Ihmotepp

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 10/28/08
Posts: 14557

6/16/10 5:53:46 PM#84
Originally posted by Cruoris
Originally posted by Ihmotepp
Originally posted by Cruoris
Originally posted by Ihmotepp
Originally posted by Scot
If you are happy with cash shops you are what I think of as a ‘fashionista’. You think MMO’s are like going down to the mall and trying on your new clothes, then its time to purchase them at the counter.
 
If you are not happy with cash shops you are what I think of as a ‘sportsman’. You think MMO’s are about level playing fields and personnel achievement.
 
The conclusion you can draw from this are that the gameplay models do not mix, they are an antithesis of one another. DDO and Lotro are hybrid revenue models which seek to square this circle but it is impossible to do so. You are going to lose the sportsman to gain the fashionistas, no two ways about that.

 

I agree. The two will never understand each other. The fashionista can't understand the "level playing field" concept. you can buy stuff too, so how is the playing field not level?

The sportsman will never be comfortable playing the mall game. Why would I play a game where I buy the content instead of earning it?

 i earn things in my real life.  its pathetic that video game players think that anything done in a video game constitutes "earning".

i am proud of my marriage, my house, my education, my job, my garden, my car, my abs etc. i worked hard for these things and relationships, and they give me a real sense of achievement.  i truly pity anyone who thinks the same feeling come from beating dungeons in a video game.

 

i am not proud of my lvl 75 shaman, any more than i was proud of Hurley on LOST for being chosen as the new guardian of the island.  its fiction, and in MMO's you have alot less control than you are glamoured to think you have.  i think paying for irrelevant superficial decals, be they unique items, character power ups, or exclusive dungeons is EXACTLY what real world money is for.  i dont have to "earn" spiderman beating up a bad guy in a comic....its ridiculous!

 

You don't have to do anything in a game except have fun.

but you can't make everyone have fun the exact same way you do. I don't think that's possible.

 your right. if only we had games that were next to bare templates, with fully customizable content that we each individually chose, best to serve our tastes and play habits...

 

oh yeah F2P + cash shops!  

 

monthly fee games are the ones the demand all players have the exact same experience (over and over again, consistantly paying the same ammount no matter what) no wonder the MMO industry is creatively bankrupt.   there is no incentive for devs to have a running increase of content.

 

 

We need different experiences,  which means ONLY cash shops like I like, and NEVER anything else! I demand that EVERYONE play a cash shop game like me, so we can have different experiences!

 

yea, that makes sense. 

Oh, wait, no it doesn't make any sense at all.

  Edli

Novice Member

Joined: 4/03/10
Posts: 946

6/16/10 6:02:55 PM#85
Originally posted by Cruoris

  first of all, we are primarily discussing content.  you and your friends are not the superbowl, guess why:  MILLIONS OF UPGRADES TO ALL FEATURES THAT HAD TO BE PURCHASED WITH MONEY.  throwing a pigskin around with a couple of friends is free, but its hardly serious competition. and, are you saying you'd pay a monthly fee to do so? i dont get your point.

if some one wanted to buy an expensive helmet just for playing with his friends, are you saying he shouldnt be allowed to? or that its somehow wrong?  i say its up to him, and luckily, much of our society agrees with me.

 

Since we've been making comparison with football this is how I see cash shop. That expensive helmet you talked about doesn't make sense, it's just fluff but what if one of my friends buys steroids and uses in the game (+ 20% xp potion) than it violates the rules. The game have rules, that's what makes it fun. Who wins while obeying to certain rules. When some decide to screw with the rules or a team decides to add 2 more players than is not fun anymore. The game doesn't have a purpose anymore because we already know who wins.

  kaiser3282

Tipster

Joined: 5/21/08
Posts: 2720

6/16/10 6:09:26 PM#86
Originally posted by Edli
Originally posted by Cruoris

  first of all, we are primarily discussing content.  you and your friends are not the superbowl, guess why:  MILLIONS OF UPGRADES TO ALL FEATURES THAT HAD TO BE PURCHASED WITH MONEY.  throwing a pigskin around with a couple of friends is free, but its hardly serious competition. and, are you saying you'd pay a monthly fee to do so? i dont get your point.

if some one wanted to buy an expensive helmet just for playing with his friends, are you saying he shouldnt be allowed to? or that its somehow wrong?  i say its up to him, and luckily, much of our society agrees with me.

 

Since we've been making comparison with football this is how I see cash shop. That expensive helmet you talked about doesn't make sense, it's just fluff but what if one of my friends buys steroids and uses in the game (+ 20% xp potion) than it violates the rules. The game have rules, that's what makes it fun. Who wins while obeying to certain rules. When some decide to screw with the rules or a team decides to add 2 more players than is not fun anymore. The game doesn't have a purpose anymore because we already know who wins.

 Problem is, you, and so many others are trying to create your own rules. You do not run the game, the company who created it does, and they decide the rules. Using stat boosts, xp pots, etc are within the rules that THEY set.

If the NFL announced that steroid use was perfectly legal, using them would no longer be "cheating" because the people who make the rules have changed the rules. Would it make football any less fun to play or watch? Perhaps for some, but most would still enjoy it. Wether you people like to admit or not, you are not the one who dictates what the rules in MMORPGS are or how others should play. The Devs make the rules, and we a sindividual players decide how we will play for ourselves within those rules.

  Edli

Novice Member

Joined: 4/03/10
Posts: 946

6/16/10 6:12:28 PM#87
Originally posted by kaiser3282

 Problem is, you, and so many others are trying to create your own rules. You do not run the game, the company who created it does, and they decide the rules. Using stat boosts, xp pots, etc are within the rules that THEY set.

If the NFL announced that steroid use was perfectly legal, using them would no longer be "cheating" because the people who make the rules have changed the rules. Would it make football any less fun to play or watch? Perhaps for some, but most would still enjoy it. Wether you people like to admit or not, you are not the one who dictates what the rules in MMORPGS are or how others should play. The Devs make the rules, and we a sindividual players decide how we will play for ourselves within those rules.

 

Well I know that devs make their own rules. When I see a f2p game I just avoid it. I'm just saying why I don't like these games. I'm not saying that you should like what I like.

  nariusseldon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 21739

6/16/10 6:17:48 PM#88

You just don't get it. Proving his point about sportsman. When I go play football with my friends I don't do it to earn something in my life or win a cup. I do it for fun, it's about the competition and teamplay and when I enter the field I take it seriously. Not much different are video games either.

You are the one who didn't get it. Playing "it" (whether sports or video games) serously is NOT the ONLY way to have fun. There are plenty people goofing around playing sports too and don't tell me none of them are having fun.

It boggles the mind to think that everyone needs to be "serious" to have fun.

It is NOT always about competition and teamplay. It can be about taking it out on some digital monster too. Or just feeling powerful with my latest sword. Or land a great deal on the AH.

  kaiser3282

Tipster

Joined: 5/21/08
Posts: 2720

6/16/10 6:18:12 PM#89
Originally posted by Edli
Originally posted by kaiser3282

 Problem is, you, and so many others are trying to create your own rules. You do not run the game, the company who created it does, and they decide the rules. Using stat boosts, xp pots, etc are within the rules that THEY set.

If the NFL announced that steroid use was perfectly legal, using them would no longer be "cheating" because the people who make the rules have changed the rules. Would it make football any less fun to play or watch? Perhaps for some, but most would still enjoy it. Wether you people like to admit or not, you are not the one who dictates what the rules in MMORPGS are or how others should play. The Devs make the rules, and we a sindividual players decide how we will play for ourselves within those rules.

 

Well I know that devs make their own rules. When I see a f2p game I just avoid it. I'm just saying why I don't like these games. I'm not saying that you should like what I like.

 Well, nice to see someone who is anti-F2P that actually has a bit of common sense and doesnt rage about it out of nothing but blind hatred and ignorance of how they work. Sorry if that post came off as harsh to you, wasnt just directed at you but as i said, so many others who post similar things. They are usually partly a post like yours combined with outdated assumptions like F2P = spend $ for max level and best gear without working for it ingame, or declarations that spending $ = cheating, even though its clearly within the rules set by the devs therefore making it not cheating.

  Wraithone

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3602

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

6/16/10 6:38:38 PM#90
Originally posted by Ihmotepp
Originally posted by nariusseldon

 

Personally i have no problem with RMT. I always have a choice of what to buy and what not.

For those who cannot stand RMT, find another hobby. There are more entertainment in the world then just video games.

 

So you believe people should not be allowed to play MMORPGs, unless they like the same payment model you do. Interesting.

People should do what they choose to. That applies to Dev's as well. If more money is to be made in F2P or hybrid systems, are you saying that they should be forced to stick with the P2P business model? Interesting.

  Kordesh

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/12/06
Posts: 1731

6/16/10 6:44:26 PM#91

Originally posted by Ihmotepp
Originally posted by nariusseldon

 

Personally i have no problem with RMT. I always have a choice of what to buy and what not.

For those who cannot stand RMT, find another hobby. There are more entertainment in the world then just video games.

 

So you believe people should not be allowed to play MMORPGs, unless they like the same payment model you do. Interesting.

That one is particularly interesting because not only is he suggesting that everyone MUST agree with RMT (IE: Cheat to win) but its especially arrogant given that his preferred method of play that he feels everyone else should find another hobby for happens to be a bannable offense in most games.

Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.

EAT ME MMORPG.com!

  madeux

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/02/08
Posts: 1868

I have little patience for humans...

6/16/10 6:48:23 PM#92
Originally posted by Kordesh

Originally posted by Ihmotepp
Originally posted by nariusseldon

 

Personally i have no problem with RMT. I always have a choice of what to buy and what not.

For those who cannot stand RMT, find another hobby. There are more entertainment in the world then just video games.

 

So you believe people should not be allowed to play MMORPGs, unless they like the same payment model you do. Interesting.

That one is particularly interesting because not only is he suggesting that everyone MUST agree with RMT (IE: Cheat to win) but its especially arrogant given that his preferred method of play that he feels everyone else should find another hobby for happens to be a bannable offense in most games.

 Or you could take two seconds to see what he is ACTUALLY saying... the market is going to f2p, so if you don't like it, you're going to have to find something else to do.  And if it's allowed by the dev, then it's obviously  not cheating, so you're just making yourself look stupid when you say things like this.

  Edli

Novice Member

Joined: 4/03/10
Posts: 946

6/16/10 6:50:28 PM#93
Originally posted by madeux
Originally posted by Kordesh

Originally posted by Ihmotepp
Originally posted by nariusseldon

 

Personally i have no problem with RMT. I always have a choice of what to buy and what not.

For those who cannot stand RMT, find another hobby. There are more entertainment in the world then just video games.

 

So you believe people should not be allowed to play MMORPGs, unless they like the same payment model you do. Interesting.

That one is particularly interesting because not only is he suggesting that everyone MUST agree with RMT (IE: Cheat to win) but its especially arrogant given that his preferred method of play that he feels everyone else should find another hobby for happens to be a bannable offense in most games.

 Or you could take two seconds to see what he is ACTUALLY saying... the market is going to f2p, so if you don't like it, you're going to have to find something else to do.  And if it's allowed by the dev, then it's obviously  not cheating, so you're just making yourself look stupid when you say things like this.

 

Ok seriously how is the marketing going f2p? We p2p gamers are waiting for Sw tor, FFXIV, Tera, rift ect. How can we leave when all these games are coming for us?

  kaiser3282

Tipster

Joined: 5/21/08
Posts: 2720

6/16/10 6:52:06 PM#94
Originally posted by Kordesh

Originally posted by Ihmotepp
Originally posted by nariusseldon

 

Personally i have no problem with RMT. I always have a choice of what to buy and what not.

For those who cannot stand RMT, find another hobby. There are more entertainment in the world then just video games.

 

So you believe people should not be allowed to play MMORPGs, unless they like the same payment model you do. Interesting.

That one is particularly interesting because not only is he suggesting that everyone MUST agree with RMT (IE: Cheat to win) but its especially arrogant given that his preferred method of play that he feels everyone else should find another hobby for happens to be a bannable offense in most games.

 Ugh.... read my last couple posts above this one. YOU DO NOT SET THE RULES, there is no cheating. It may be a bannable offense in some games, because they are P2P, but it is obviously not bannable in F2P because you are buying it from the developer. The developers set the rules, not you, its that simple. Dont like it? As he said, go do something else, or stick to P2P games and stop worrying so much about what other people do.

  madeux

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/02/08
Posts: 1868

I have little patience for humans...

6/16/10 6:54:15 PM#95
Originally posted by Edli
Originally posted by madeux
Originally posted by Kordesh

Originally posted by Ihmotepp
Originally posted by nariusseldon

 

Personally i have no problem with RMT. I always have a choice of what to buy and what not.

For those who cannot stand RMT, find another hobby. There are more entertainment in the world then just video games.

 

So you believe people should not be allowed to play MMORPGs, unless they like the same payment model you do. Interesting.

That one is particularly interesting because not only is he suggesting that everyone MUST agree with RMT (IE: Cheat to win) but its especially arrogant given that his preferred method of play that he feels everyone else should find another hobby for happens to be a bannable offense in most games.

 Or you could take two seconds to see what he is ACTUALLY saying... the market is going to f2p, so if you don't like it, you're going to have to find something else to do.  And if it's allowed by the dev, then it's obviously  not cheating, so you're just making yourself look stupid when you say things like this.

 

Ok seriously how is the marketing going f2p? We p2p gamers are waiting for Sw tor, FFXIV, Tera, rift ect. How can we leave when all these games are coming for us?

 Well, for one, Bioware has left the RMT option open for SW:TOR.

Secondly, more people play f2p games than p2p games... that should be your clue of where the market is going.  Not to mention D&D, LOTRO... I'm not saying one is better than the other, just looking objectively and see what is happening.

  Ihmotepp

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 10/28/08
Posts: 14557

6/16/10 6:57:10 PM#96
Originally posted by Wraithone
Originally posted by Ihmotepp
Originally posted by nariusseldon

 

Personally i have no problem with RMT. I always have a choice of what to buy and what not.

For those who cannot stand RMT, find another hobby. There are more entertainment in the world then just video games.

 

So you believe people should not be allowed to play MMORPGs, unless they like the same payment model you do. Interesting.

People should do what they choose to. That applies to Dev's as well. If more money is to be made in F2P or hybrid systems, are you saying that they should be forced to stick with the P2P business model? Interesting.

 

No. I'm not telling developers to do anything at all. 

don't know how you could infer that from this post. 

But "For those who cannot stand RMT, find another hobby" seems pretty clear. 

Play the game my way, or I don't want you to play. 

Weird, IMO, as if someone  playing a different game would offend you or something. 

  Ihmotepp

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 10/28/08
Posts: 14557

6/16/10 7:00:28 PM#97
Originally posted by madeux
 

 Well, for one, Bioware has left the RMT option open for SW:TOR.

Secondly, more people play f2p games than p2p games... that should be your clue of where the market is going.  Not to mention D&D, LOTRO... I'm not saying one is better than the other, just looking objectively and see what is happening.

 

The market can go anywhere it likes. That really doesn't have any effect on what you think is fun, and what you think isn't. 

 

Numbers aren't everything, because I'm sure developers dont' care about players on F2P games that don't spend any money. Why would they?

  madeux

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/02/08
Posts: 1868

I have little patience for humans...

6/16/10 7:00:38 PM#98
Originally posted by Ihmotepp
Originally posted by Wraithone
Originally posted by Ihmotepp
Originally posted by nariusseldon

 

Personally i have no problem with RMT. I always have a choice of what to buy and what not.

For those who cannot stand RMT, find another hobby. There are more entertainment in the world then just video games.

 

So you believe people should not be allowed to play MMORPGs, unless they like the same payment model you do. Interesting.

People should do what they choose to. That applies to Dev's as well. If more money is to be made in F2P or hybrid systems, are you saying that they should be forced to stick with the P2P business model? Interesting.

 

No. I'm not telling developers to do anything at all. 

don't know how you could infer that from this post. 

But "For those who cannot stand RMT, find another hobby" seems pretty clear. 

Play the game my way, or I don't want you to play. 

Weird, IMO, as if someone  playing a different game would offend you or something. 

 Just like a previous post, you're taking this too personally.

He's not saying you shouldn't be allowed to play, he's simply commenting on the way the market is going.  It's going to be a f2p world (in his opinion) and the rabid anti rmt stance will preclude you from taking part in it.

  Edli

Novice Member

Joined: 4/03/10
Posts: 946

6/16/10 7:00:58 PM#99
Originally posted by madeux
Originally posted by Edli
Originally posted by madeux

 Or you could take two seconds to see what he is ACTUALLY saying... the market is going to f2p, so if you don't like it, you're going to have to find something else to do.  And if it's allowed by the dev, then it's obviously  not cheating, so you're just making yourself look stupid when you say things like this.

 

Ok seriously how is the marketing going f2p? We p2p gamers are waiting for Sw tor, FFXIV, Tera, rift ect. How can we leave when all these games are coming for us?

 Well, for one, Bioware has left the RMT option open for SW:TOR.

Secondly, more people play f2p games than p2p games... that should be your clue of where the market is going.  Not to mention D&D, LOTRO... I'm not saying one is better than the other, just looking objectively and see what is happening.

 

I know that more peoples play f2p but you're saying that p2p is dieing and we should leave this genre when in fact is not true and great games are coming for us.

Really, really doubt that bioware will go the f2p route.

  Ihmotepp

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 10/28/08
Posts: 14557

6/16/10 7:03:33 PM#100
Originally posted by madeux
Originally posted by Ihmotepp
Originally posted by Wraithone
Originally posted by Ihmotepp
Originally posted by nariusseldon

 

Personally i have no problem with RMT. I always have a choice of what to buy and what not.

For those who cannot stand RMT, find another hobby. There are more entertainment in the world then just video games.

 

So you believe people should not be allowed to play MMORPGs, unless they like the same payment model you do. Interesting.

People should do what they choose to. That applies to Dev's as well. If more money is to be made in F2P or hybrid systems, are you saying that they should be forced to stick with the P2P business model? Interesting.

 

No. I'm not telling developers to do anything at all. 

don't know how you could infer that from this post. 

But "For those who cannot stand RMT, find another hobby" seems pretty clear. 

Play the game my way, or I don't want you to play. 

Weird, IMO, as if someone  playing a different game would offend you or something. 

 Just like a previous post, you're taking this too personally.

He's not saying you shouldn't be allowed to play, he's simply commenting on the way the market is going.  It's going to be a f2p world (in his opinion) and the rabid anti rmt stance will preclude you from taking part in it.

 

I don't have a problem with that. If no one in the game industry wants my money, then of course they won't get it. 

Don't see why that would matter to anyone that is a player. 

Why do you care unless you're a game dev or a publisher? Play what you like, and I'll play what I like. 

I'm not playing games to make a profit, and I don't think you are either. 

 

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