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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Fully destructable/deformable game world.

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23 posts found
  jusomdude

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/21/06
Posts: 2312

 
OP  6/05/10 4:02:24 PM#1

I'm working on a new way to handle game environments and objects to hopefully make most everything dynamically destructable and or deformable.

Right now it's in an expiramental stage but it's going well so far. Although it doesn't use voxels now, in the end it will be based on voxels although not solely. With what I have planned everything will be textured, lit, and will be able to be animated.

 

Here's an early video showing an untextured, but lit surface destruction. This is just a surface, but in the final product everything will have unique volume down to about the 5/4 of a millimeter. I know it's not too impressive at this point, but I'll keep updating with my progress.

 

Video

 

I don't have the resources to make an MMO with what I'm doing but hopefully someone will pick up the technology when I'm finished and make a fully dynamic game world.

 

*EDIT* - Decided to put up a little demo instead of another video Demo Make sure to use VSync since I haven't yet timed the controls. You may need the VC2005 redistributables to run it also.

W,A,S,D - move camera.
Move Mouse - rotate camera.
G,V,B,N - Move destructor.

  arieste

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/11/04
Posts: 3308

6/05/10 10:27:39 PM#2

Fully malleable world is the way to go.  However, I always thought that the main issue with creating one would be not figuring out how to destroy everything, but rather how to build stuff fast enough that said destruction does not make it a desert. 
 

Still a world where yesterday's (or last month's) major city is today's pile of rubble is definittely the direction I'd like MMOs to take.

"I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

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  Vinterkrig

Novice Member

Joined: 1/22/07
Posts: 1706

6/05/10 10:37:24 PM#3

i just did that in microsoft paint, wooo it was a fun game

  jusomdude

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/21/06
Posts: 2312

 
OP  6/05/10 11:38:44 PM#4
Originally posted by Vinterkrig

i just did that in microsoft paint, wooo it was a fun game

It's not MS paint lol. I'l post the executable if you really want proof.

  jusomdude

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/21/06
Posts: 2312

 
OP  6/05/10 11:41:41 PM#5
Originally posted by arieste

Fully malleable world is the way to go.  However, I always thought that the main issue with creating one would be not figuring out how to destroy everything, but rather how to build stuff fast enough that said destruction does not make it a desert. 
 

Still a world where yesterday's (or last month's) major city is today's pile of rubble is definittely the direction I'd like MMOs to take.

That's a good point. With a fully destructable world, what's stopping the players from completely destroying everything. The game would have to be designed around it I suppose.

  someforumguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 3481

6/05/10 11:54:47 PM#6

Creating sandcastles while the next one kicks them over. But then without the repercussions that you would have in rl. Ppl would grow tired of trying to build things.

If there is anything that Ive learned in MMO's, is that you only need a handfull of griefers to make a game unfun/unplayable for the majority. Thats why most FFA games fail. If those games also let you build and destroy about anything, it would only be more complex to make enjoyable.

  User Deleted
6/05/10 11:59:23 PM#7

Well there was Shadowbane.

  GTwander

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/09
Posts: 6125

LARPer Hunter

6/06/10 12:00:35 AM#8

You just have assets tied to timers for phasing back to it's orginal form. Auto Assault was *the best* destructive environment game of it's kind that I ever played. Running through guardrails and picking up it's scrap for crafting never got old, and they would just appear back on a timer. It's not a big deal really.

I even penned a sci-fi setting where you blast chunks out of old cities and collect the bits that fall out or guard the bigger ones till NPCs come by and pick it up. I applied good ol' deus ex machina to explain how it comes back to the way it was originally. Ever seen that Star Trek episode with the entity that makes Kirk fight a lizardman, or the Futurama parody of it? It's basically that. His planet, he can do what he wants. Now dance puppets!

Writer / Musician / Game Designer

Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
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  Scottc

Novice Member

Joined: 12/28/05
Posts: 699

6/06/10 12:13:19 AM#9

The video in the op is a joke, right?  I mean there's absolutely no evidence that this is any sort of dynamic destruction.  Such an effect could be faked in many ways even in an exe.

  jusomdude

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/21/06
Posts: 2312

 
OP  6/06/10 12:22:30 AM#10
Originally posted by Scottc

The video in the op is a joke, right?  I mean there's absolutely no evidence that this is any sort of dynamic destruction.  Such an effect could be faked in many ways even in an exe.

So what would prove it to you, the source code?

 

I think being able to navigate a camera and control the destruction yourself should be enough.

  mystery2122

Novice Member

Joined: 7/08/07
Posts: 52

6/06/10 12:23:19 AM#11

Was that MS.Paint using the 30pix eraser or 32 pix eraser?

  User Deleted
6/06/10 12:34:38 AM#12
Originally posted by jusomdude
Originally posted by arieste

Fully malleable world is the way to go.  However, I always thought that the main issue with creating one would be not figuring out how to destroy everything, but rather how to build stuff fast enough that said destruction does not make it a desert. 
 

Still a world where yesterday's (or last month's) major city is today's pile of rubble is definittely the direction I'd like MMOs to take.

That's a good point. With a fully destructable world, what's stopping the players from completely destroying everything. The game would have to be designed around it I suppose.

Auto Assault did just that. The buildings respawned after a while....

  Raven

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/06
Posts: 1985

"Only the dead have seen the end of war" Plato

6/06/10 5:16:46 AM#13

Fixing the problem of players destroying the world completely is a problem that can be address and it is already address in most mechanics you see in game, they are called restrictions an MMO that is advertised with fully deformable world will have restrictions and that is a FACT you cant really just give full uncontrolled freedom.

Another good way of doing it is by having consequences to terrain deformation and real-time erosion systems, a friend of mine is doing a paper on real time erosion systems using GPPGPU and it looks absolutely promising, which means that restrictions can be enforced through erosion, also a system of sediments would have to be implemented what that means is that mass has to be moved from A to B you cant just deform freely but sediment has to be moved which will ensure that the land mass would never disappear but sediment deposited somewhere else which would then be naturally eroded and fill in the steep gaps, so if you make a steep hole somewhere thermal and hydraulic erosion will ensure that hole gets filled with mass around it over time.

Before any of this can be implemented however I believe we will have to see the coming back of Voxel based systems in MMOs and other games which we dont see right now.

GPU's are becoming so much more powerful in relation to graphical improvement alone that we are not really taking advantage of its full potential and physics, AI and other complex systems will be the next big improvements and hopefully using GPP we will see some amazing things become standard over the next few years, deformable terrains and more complex particle systems is probably one of them.

  pinkdaisy

Novice Member

Joined: 7/30/04
Posts: 359

6/06/10 1:45:46 PM#14
Originally posted by jusomdude

I don't have the resources to make an MMO with what I'm doing but hopefully someone will pick up the technology when I'm finished and make a fully dynamic game world.

 Although I hate the game on many levels, wurm online has had this for years.  You can terraform the terrain, cut down the trees, raze the buildings, and create tunnels.  Infact today is their 4th anniversary.

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  jusomdude

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/21/06
Posts: 2312

 
OP  6/06/10 1:50:46 PM#15

Updated the OP with a demo.

  jusomdude

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/21/06
Posts: 2312

 
OP  6/06/10 1:56:51 PM#16
Originally posted by pinkdaisy
Originally posted by jusomdude

I don't have the resources to make an MMO with what I'm doing but hopefully someone will pick up the technology when I'm finished and make a fully dynamic game world.

 Although I hate the game on many levels, wurm online has had this for years.  You can terraform the terrain, cut down the trees, raze the buildings, and create tunnels.  Infact today is their 4th anniversary.

Yeah, I don't like Wurm either. I havn't played it that much but I don't think their deformation is really dynamic, you can't poke a hole in the middle of a tile you can just adjust the shape of the entire tile. Plus with what I'm doing you would be able to deform enemies, rocks, trees, and pretty much everything else all dynamically.

  jusomdude

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/21/06
Posts: 2312

 
OP  6/06/10 2:04:11 PM#17
Originally posted by rav3n2

Fixing the problem of players destroying the world completely is a problem that can be address and it is already address in most mechanics you see in game, they are called restrictions an MMO that is advertised with fully deformable world will have restrictions and that is a FACT you cant really just give full uncontrolled freedom.

Another good way of doing it is by having consequences to terrain deformation and real-time erosion systems, a friend of mine is doing a paper on real time erosion systems using GPPGPU and it looks absolutely promising, which means that restrictions can be enforced through erosion, also a system of sediments would have to be implemented what that means is that mass has to be moved from A to B you cant just deform freely but sediment has to be moved which will ensure that the land mass would never disappear but sediment deposited somewhere else which would then be naturally eroded and fill in the steep gaps, so if you make a steep hole somewhere thermal and hydraulic erosion will ensure that hole gets filled with mass around it over time.

Before any of this can be implemented however I believe we will have to see the coming back of Voxel based systems in MMOs and other games which we dont see right now.

GPU's are becoming so much more powerful in relation to graphical improvement alone that we are not really taking advantage of its full potential and physics, AI and other complex systems will be the next big improvements and hopefully using GPP we will see some amazing things become standard over the next few years, deformable terrains and more complex particle systems is probably one of them.

I'm thinking simple timers would be a much better solution than some complex erosion system that pretty much accomplishes the same thing.

While what I have planned will use voxels to an extent, It won't have voxel data loaded and processed most of the time. While it would be nice to have full voxel physics and all that, it's just not something that's doable at this point.

  neosapience

Novice Member

Joined: 7/17/04
Posts: 166

6/06/10 5:12:45 PM#18

The very thing that makes sandbox games so interesting is also what makes them irritating. Games need balance. If you want something to be destructible, it has to be as difficult to destroy as it was to create.

 

You also have to bear in mind that the object's creator can't be around 24/7 to defend said object.

  User Deleted
6/06/10 6:18:35 PM#19
Originally posted by neosapience

The very thing that makes sandbox games so interesting is also what makes them irritating. Games need balance. If you want something to be destructible, it has to be as difficult to destroy as it was to create.

 

You also have to bear in mind that the object's creator can't be around 24/7 to defend said object.

See games DON'T need balance. Games need imbalance. So players can learn how to adapt to their roles, and have good reason to maybe not be able to pull that rustly lever, but they can reactivate that X-Ray phonic difibulator.

A fully destructable world needs 1 thing. An active community. Make it so that when something breaks, people get resources. Make those resources go towards something truly rewarding (maybe a foundry that produces weapons of varying qualities that can be picked up by a guild for FREE eventually) and well have that be able to be lost and need protecting.

People say this wouldn't work, but the biggest boons and celebrated mechanics of all modern MMOs scream that this could work if marketed as something other than (big peen pvp). I'd like to consider it purpose vs purpose. We know players can gank one another, but give them a reason to try.

Having a wall that can break only to respawn isn't interesting.

  vinwiesel

Novice Member

Joined: 3/21/07
Posts: 114

6/06/10 6:24:30 PM#20
Originally posted by someforumguy

Creating sandcastles while the next one kicks them over. But then without the repercussions that you would have in rl. Ppl would grow tired of trying to build things.

If there is anything that Ive learned in MMO's, is that you only need a handfull of griefers to make a game unfun/unplayable for the majority. Thats why most FFA games fail. If those games also let you build and destroy about anything, it would only be more complex to make enjoyable.

There could be a system built into the game mechanics that limits griefing.  Simply have another bar similar to mana or health that allows for creation or destruction.  You can choose which to spend it on, but you can only do so much.   You could also make a person twice as vulnerable to attack while destroying. 

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