I agree with most of the OP's suggestions.  I also believe it was the 1-2 punch of ToA and Frontiers that killed it.  I think Frontiers pretty much finished everyone off.  ToA had so much to explore that it took a good 5 months before everyone realized how genuinely awful it was.  I believe you could pull this off but probably not with EA breathing down their necks.  

First things to NOT do:

1. No instanced battlegrounds. I'm referring to WAR and WoW brand here. It negates the purpose of "the hunt" and turns it merely into a numbers game.  There is something to be said to have a favorite spot in Thid and act as brigands and pick people off from your favorite tree.  But this new fad of FPS instanced deathmatches is silly to me.  It's popular among new people which is cool.  But wait till you get a look at DAoC's battlegrounds.  These will make you forget all about "other" games whom claim to know pvp.  

2.  Don't dumb it down or overly complicate.  Keep the keep and sieges simple and not so "overly compensating" (New Frontiers)

3.  Get rid of Vampiir unless you plan to make them glittery, overly angsty, and weak to emo music ala (Minstrels and skalds)

Things I don't agree with.

1. Making leveling easier- just because the current breed of gamer demands and easier go of it doesn't make it more fun.  It makes 1-40 typically empty.  I think the pace was monotonous for a reason.  It required fun work.  I actually enjoyed leveling even though it was arduous.  Most people gave up before 50..so it wasn't populated with a bunch of the same people with 20 different 50's.  It was hard.  Leave it that way.  People never respect (respect as in the game itself) the games who make it too easy for them.  Sure they will complain about death penalty.  But those are the first to leave when they reach 50

2.  Classes.  I loved the number of classes.  You don't need 4 prime classes to float a ship.  You need a steady and varied group, so that YES a nightshade can take down a healer in 1.5 seconds.  That creates a need for teamwork and grouping, instead of the 5 solo players you have in warhammer every time a scenario pops.  The archer classes were each different and had a role to play in a group.  This means this same archer had to make friends when leveling through pve.  

3.  I never minded CC.  Everyone complains about DAoC CC and I seriously don't see the fuss.  Yes, it sucked to get mezzed by a single Minstrel under a bridge, but that is part of the charm (frustration).  Most of the time, you can tear right through that guy if you get him in open field.  That same Mentalist who mezzed you so annoyingly can also be torn to shreds by a Scout from behind a tree.  I'm sure he'll also say stealth crits are poor form.  

4.  I don't agree that this could ever be made.  It's a simple as that.  It doesn't mean I won't hope for it... but there it is.  Never going to happen.  Still, it's a dream.  And as with all dreams (my dating of megan fox is one too) this dream will no doubt be consumed by the big corporations and placed in a contained next to the holy grail. Thus, we will never see DAoC2 outside of our foggy cloud of nostalgia and dreams.  

My concern for any reincarnation of DAoC is that the community will never be the same.

The pre-WoW MMO community that played on the DAoC RP servers (I was primarily on Percival) offered plenty of fun for the dedicated player and some great all-night frontier fights.  Good times were always there for Old Frontiers+Foundations+Shrouded Isles because the layout was accessible and most players were VERY well mannered.

DAoC in 2001-2003 took patience and loyalty among players just for the glory of the kill count and a sense of victory for your faction and guild.  Loot was on your mind, but it was the icing on the cake rather than the whole dessert.

Could that type of game really succeed these days?

I fear that "play for the fun of it" and a common choice of "player immersion in a virtual world" has been lost forever...

Originally posted by OldSquirrel

My concern for any reincarnation of DAoC is that the community will never be the same.

The pre-WoW MMO community that played on the DAoC RP servers (I was primarily on Percival) offered plenty of fun for the dedicated player and some great all-night frontier fights.  Good times were always there for Old Frontiers+Foundations+Shrouded Isles because the layout was accessible and most players were VERY well mannered.

DAoC in 2001-2003 took patience and loyalty among players just for the glory of the kill count and a sense of victory for your faction and guild.  Loot was on your mind, but it was the icing on the cake rather than the whole dessert.

Could that type of game really succeed these days?

No...because it has to have mass appeal.  That is, unless you're insanely so self confident that you're perfectly fine with being a niche game...such as EvE.  

Nice article! I really do hope something like that would rise up and make me addicted to mmorpgs agains since atm I am really bored.

This is a holy grail for MMO's, recreating DAOC's success with current generation graphics. It could be done and the lessons from Warhammer are there to see. But in todays climate of MMO's being launched too soon and every MMO trying to be everthing to every player I doubt they could do us proud.

I Loved DAoC! An updated version would be great! Grats to the OP for a great article!

I played from beta on till may last year. The only reason i stopped was my disability didnt kick in.

Some say i quit when ToA came out , it did have it's peoblems and later on they mayed it workable. I myself would and prob go bac in a heart beat now got coin comming in, just waiting on new computer to really get bac in game. That and SWToR cought my eye.

Seen the good side of DAOC and bad the years i played it, and my biggest  concerern was they made it to easy to lvl and PL went rampeted and then RvR suffered due to all ppl out there didnt have a cllue what their toons could do. So saying that I do disagree with the arthur of aticle. I will say bring it on a DAOC2 would be game for a Run again...

I actually just resubbed to DAoC US, moved my old EU characters over.. and so far I'm having a blast. I played DAoC EU from 2002-2005, then I returned and played DAoC US during late 2007 and early 2008.

I've always wanted to see a DAoC 2.

What I would like to see is:

1. Mounted combat
2. Full or partial loot, so you actually sacrifice something in RvR, this will make crafting more important. And will decrease the grind for armor/weapons and the perfect template.
3. Keep the realms, Alb, Hib, Mid. Might need a redesign of most of it.
4. Skip the housing zone and let people place houses in the "real" world.
5. RvR/Frontier needs to stay, will need to be reworked though.
6. I would probably skip the levels, and let people gain str, dex, int whatever by slaying mobs/enemy players. And level spells/skills just like Darkfall has it, perhaps not that hardcore, but at least something similiar.
7. Remake the combat system more like Darkfall/FPS style, no need to target someone, you aim and the swing at the target. And definitely friendly fire, if I do a PBAoE in the middle of 10 friends they will feel it.
8. Another feature I would like to see is that an enemy realm can actually break into another realms mainzone, creating chaos etc. This wouldn't be easy and if they die they end up in their own realm again, same thing if they logout.

lets face it  money talks and immagination walks. dark age of warcraft comming up. thankyou to all the millions of asians who caused the snowball effect and help kill the mmorpg genere!

Good article! Mythic really dropped the ball with WAR, making to too WoWish and not enough DAoCish :).

DAoC was almost perfect as it was and I don't know why there hasn't been a DAoC 2 yet that builds on those strong points and lessons they learned with DAoC.

Most fun PvP system ever, 3 realms battling it out, roaming groups, keeps, siege mechanincs, relics.

Gifv DAoC 2 nooow!

DAOC2 would be a truly great thing, 3 realms, RvR focus, PvE improved with PQ's etc., less major impact by CC... trying to avoid the gear focus of WoW (maybe make a completely separate version for asia using same engine/world/quests etc but slightly tweaked gfx and a steep gear grind)

Would love it but has no chance of succeeding with EA at the helm, they simply can't do MMO's right, period.

DAOC holds alot of fond memories to most MMO players. I'm playing DAOC even today, and I'm still addicted to the brilliant PVP. First started playing on EU servers back in 2001, I love this game, and I'm hoping Mythic are working on DAOC2.

Mythic, you did a good job on WAR, but DAOC was MUCH better, stick with DAOC.

its funny, you can level a toon to 50 in a day if you really tried, and thats not with paying to get plvled, if you cut that by 75% they should just add /level 49.9, glad they took out the /level though, if you dont actually play the game and learn the toon how will you know the styles and spells it gets.

Originally posted by Ozmodan

Come on Garret, your comment on Trials of Atlantis was ridiculous.  It was most certainly the demise of DAoC because it gave the people who played all day a huge advantage.   The majority of the population just gave up when it was clear there was no way to be competitive without a huge grind in front of them.  Mythic was told this a million times and only made token changes.

I agree, it's a huge problem in any RvR game that they tend to favor the hardcore over more casual players. The only real way around the gank groups preventing other factions from leveling is to protect the leveling game by making it entirely separate from the end-game RVR. Say you have an instanced largely non-PvP game for leveling, teaching the basics of gameplay, and to set the lore of the game, followed by entry into the open world RvR and PvE end-game zones. That might work, though it might be sort of what you find in SW:TOR on release next year.

I miss DAOC,  I started with MUDS, Meridain 59, Ultima, and EQ...  out of all of those, DAOC was the most fun.  I would love to see them bring back the glory of the this game. I just don't know if they have the skills to do it.  DAOC had unique ideas that we no longer see in the MMO industry... every game is trying to capture the WOW mechanics and making a boring vanilla game just like WOW is to this day. 

If they hired some people that understood DAOC - or developed it....  ( which I hear most of those devs now work on Darkfall )  It would be possible... but it just seems like no company can capture the fun and adventure that MMO's used to be.   However,  if they DID make a sequel to this game, I would buy it no matter what and give it a try.

A reboot of DAoC would be a great day for MMO gaming, but it would be tricky for it to avoid the same pitfalls that hurt it and other games. I think there are alot of good mechanisms from newer games that might be worth including, but also alot of freshly popular game concepts that I think DAoC was, and still would be well enough without. If I were in charge of the project's direction, I would envision it in this way:

General:

Keep:

* The same class/race combinations as original daoc, no expansion classes or races (yet?).

* Original character customization (different races have different stats, players can allocate stat points at creation).

Get Rid Of: 

* Everything that came after original DAoC, examine each expansion individually, and incorporate only the best elements from each.

Add:

* A graphics overhaul, updating DAoC's beautiful mechanics with an equally pretty facade.

* Highly customizable skill trees, with rewards that scale with depth of investment.

* Controllable mounts

* Collision detection

PvE:

Keep:

* The world of DAoC vanilla, including different starting villages, horse routes, and iconic dungeons. 

* The dragon fights as a source of endgame equipment.

* Class based epic quests; doing these every 5 levels was a fun and guaranteed way to meaningfully upgrade an inventory slot. 

* Unique class specific epic armor sets in endgame. Make them a bit more powerful to be competitive with player crafted. 

* Dynamic XP bonuses (group, camp, etc..)

Get Rid Of: 

* The clunky conversation interface and quest journal. Replace it with a simple user friendly one. Alot of players avoided quests simply because keeping track of what to do was such a hassle, and almost required looking up quest spoilers online. DON'T switch to the other end of the spectrum, where you put a red circle on the map showing exactly where to go. Keep the mystery there, but make it clear enough that you can figure it out on your own. 

* Tasks. There is enough content in the world that the player doesn't need to let an NPC tell him what to farm. 

* Instances. 

Add:

* A second meaningful raid or group encounter (dungeon?) in previously underutilized zones like Llyn Barfog, Vanern Swamp, and the Cursed Forest. 

* Public Quests in wilderness areas and dungeons. 

* Boss monsters with unique abilities, rather than simply mobs that hit harder and have more HP. 

* In game maps

* Something similar to WAR's Tome of Knowledge that tracks the player's accomplishments and stats. 

RvR

Keep:

* A world similar to the original frontiers.

* Milegates and other non-objective fortifications (ruins, towers, etc..)

* Darkness Falls and the keep control system

* Relics

* Improvements in CC resistance (charge, determination, purge)

* Meaningful realm abilities

* Player stat tracking

* Low level battlegrounds (non-instanced).

Get Rid Of:

* New Frontier's emphasis on keep siege, make keeps important, but not paramount. 

Add: 

* Better siege mechanics.

Social

Keep: 

* Player and guild housing. 

Get Rid Of: 

* Having to run to someone's house to buy an item.

Add: 

* Simple, but functional looking for group, and looking for guild panels.

* Guild levels with perks (banners, easier crafting, guild hall...)

* Guild experience mechanics that scale with size to not discourage small guilds while rewarding zergers. 

This is by no means comprehensive, but it's what immediately springs to mind when I think about what I would want to see in a DAoC rebirth. I really hope that some day this vision comes to fruition, but I'm a bit jaded by the trends of recent MMO releases to be overly optimistic. 

I can't be bothered to look it up specifically, but someone earlier in this discussion noted that ex-DAOC players are the most difficult group of MMO gamers to satisfy. I think that's probably true. Those of us who loved DAoC experienced the best MMO that has been made to date, and unfortunately we had to watch it be suffocated by poor design decisions, and the WoW hype machine. I'm sure there are thousands of gamers like me who would leap at the chance to relive the glory of DAoC. 

I hope that Mythic recognizes what a gem they have in Dark Age of Camelot, and can convince the powers that be at EA and BioWare to let them reincarnate it into the game we all want to see. 

Originally posted by Konvert

 

I'm talking about the servers that opened because there was a HUGE backlash about the ToA expansion, and people were BEGGING for it to be removed from the game. 

So, if ToA had absolutely no effect on the game, and everybody loved it, how come the non ToA servers got FLOODED with people as soon as they opened?

Also, once again, you ignore the largely unpopular New Frontiers, people left in conjunction with that, and the changes from ToA. 

 

What % of old players were returning to classic (those who had quit playing) vs. the % of ToA players who stayed, did not want to deal with MLing alts or gearing them up, or wanted a fresh start)? <---and went to the opening classic server.  Of 7 people I regularly grouped with, all 7 went just to try it out.  Of the 7, 3 stayed and 5 went back to our regular server.

 

The reason the classic servers got flooded initial was not due to old players returning...it was for the second reason mentioned.  The pull of people from other servers only help deplete the population that floundering servers were already experiencing.

 

There are a multitude or reasons why people left as I will totally agree with; heck, I even knew folks who left due to realm population imbalances (of all things).

 

Was a fun game while I played it; but, until buff bots are removed in full, I will not resubscribe...I do not like to ask for buffs nor will I pay for two accounts to be competitve.

Well i for one, came back after being away for 2 years to play the game without TOA

i LOVED the Gareth server, i played there until it died :(

If it didnt die, i would still be there

Ohhhh Yes! Give us a DAOC 2 !

Good article Garett.

No game did ever approach how i felt for daoc.

If EA goes for it, and Mythic/Bioware don't mess it. It will be THE MMO of the next decade!

I would buy DAoC 2 without even knowing anything about it, thats how much I loved DAoC. Mythic would sell millions of copies if they made DAoC 2.

Come on EA, get it STARTED!!!!!