The thing is, both extremes (one versus many and many versus one) can be completely dull. I think what counts the most is creating an engaging encounter and it doesn't matter what you use to do that, or whether it is loads of mobs or just one.

Having said that I believe Bioware is onto something with emphasising encounters where you are outnumbered. This has much more potential for truly engaging gameplay. They might also emphasise multiple tasks being done by a group so they have to split up and if one part fails then everyone fails.

The original Star Wars had Hans and Luke rescuing Leia whilst Obi Wan had to disable the tractor beam. Terrific stuff. The objective was really NOT to face the boss at all (Vader). Yet it was heroic. Heck, they rescued a princess, which is like the definition of heroic!

I dunno, I don't feel particularly heroic when me and around 25 buddies defeat a single opponent either.

I prefer fighting an equal opponent in skill and numbers, that feels more heroic for me.

Luke dueling with Darth Vader is cool, if he had over 20 buddies with him I wouldn't call it heroic whatsoever.

Of course killing loads of trash mobs just get me the feeling from a really old British movie when 1000nds of zulu warriors storm 25 English soldiers, it isn't that heroic either.

If the game will make me feel heroic or not is a different thing I can't tell you until I played it.

I've never felt heroic in an MMO, sadly. Most of this feeling I get from SPRPGs. Usually games like ME/ME2, DA:O (sometimes), Assassins Creed, KOTOR. But that was the purpose of these games. Seems as of late MMOs are not built for immersion anymore.

Originally posted by Draemos

And I always wondered how much of a puss the boss must be if I can singlehandedly beat it.

Is that even a boss? More like a glorified trash mob.

So your basically saying you feel like your characters a puss, and the boss must be an even bigger puss to be beat by you.

 

I think thats the point of the whole heroic direction thingy.  

It doesn't feel heroic if I beat a puss.

Originally posted by Loke666

I dunno, I don't feel particularly heroic when me and around 25 buddies defeat a single opponent either.

I prefer fighting an equal opponent in skill and numbers, that feels more heroic for me.

Luke dueling with Darth Vader is cool, if he had over 20 buddies with him I wouldn't call it heroic whatsoever.

Of course killing loads of trash mobs just get me the feeling from a really old British movie when 1000nds of zulu warriors storm 25 English soldiers, it isn't that heroic either.

If the game will make me feel heroic or not is a different thing I can't tell you until I played it.

Beating an opponent stronger than you- that's heroic.

The stronger, the better.

Varney, did you miss the part about it being a combat video? Everyone is salivating at the mouth to find out details and specifics on how the game works, not more on the storylines, so they released something to kind of give an indication and you decide to take it as though there's nothing more to the game than that.

Utterly ridiculous.

I'm starting to feel like a broken record... WAIT to find out before you freak out.

Originally posted by Moirae

 

I'm starting to feel like a broken record... WAIT to find out before you freak out.

 Amen! Me too.

Originally posted by Loke666

Luke dueling with Darth Vader is cool, if he had over 20 buddies with him I wouldn't call it heroic whatsoever.

Well, it would be heroic for Vader.

Honestly, I think it is pretty much against Star Wars Lore to have many-on-one encounters except perhaps in space (but the Death Star in a way is more of an environment than a foe, and its fighters and such are the enemies).  Even if you consider an AT-AT walker, you have Luke killing one BY HIMSELF in The Empire Strikes Back.

Overall I agree with Bioware's direction that fights should be many-on-many with the heroes usually being outnumbered.

I'll always feel less 'heroic' in an MMO if I got some character healing me every 30seconds so I can't die.

They will do it like this. 500 kills in a single fight.

/jking

Originally posted by Drachasor

Originally posted by Loke666

Luke dueling with Darth Vader is cool, if he had over 20 buddies with him I wouldn't call it heroic whatsoever.

Well, it would be heroic for Vader.

Honestly, I think it is pretty much against Star Wars Lore to have many-on-one encounters except perhaps in space (but the Death Star in a way is more of an environment than a foe, and its fighters and such are the enemies).  Even if you consider an AT-AT walker, you have Luke killing one BY HIMSELF in The Empire Strikes Back.

Overall I agree with Bioware's direction that fights should be many-on-many with the heroes usually being outnumbered.

Ummm... Vader would be what we call "a boss fight". Its quite normal to have many on one battles. Want examples?

The Battle of Naboo (phantom menace, The Battle of Geonosis (clone wars), The Battle of Yavin (a new hope), The Battle of Hoth (empire), the Battle of Endor (jedi). And thats just a hand full.

Originally posted by Strap

 

The thing is, both extremes (one versus many and many versus one) can be completely dull. I think what counts the most is creating an engaging encounter and it doesn't matter what you use to do that, or whether it is loads of mobs or just one.

 

Having said that I believe Bioware is onto something with emphasising encounters where you are outnumbered. This has much more potential for truly engaging gameplay. They might also emphasise multiple tasks being done by a group so they have to split up and if one part fails then everyone fails.

 

The original Star Wars had Hans and Luke rescuing Leia whilst Obi Wan had to disable the tractor beam. Terrific stuff. The objective was really NOT to face the boss at all (Vader). Yet it was heroic. Heck, they rescued a princess, which is like the definition of heroic!

 

 

 

This guy is on to something good here.. To be honest if thats the direction they are going I more than welcome that compared to typical Raid Boss style.  The reason being is with raid bosses after you learn the patterns it becomes mind numbingly boring and just heroic anymore. But having multiple objectives ( which would be cool if the instances had slightly different layouts each time) To complete.

Defend the ship from a potential takeover stop the flood of mobs from overtaking the captin. Meanwhile 1 person must go to the hull and perform some repairs to the ships fuel storage otherwise fuel will be lost and we will be overtaken because we can't run. At the same time a secondary ambush is coming from another part of the ship so 1 member can stop the ambush by overiding some system and jamming the doors or if he fails there will be 2x as many mobs to deal with causing a potential wipe... If there is one to many weak links in this then the mission will fail. Keeps the teamwork that Raid lovers enjoy and keeps the blood pumping action.. that others will enjoy. Strategically speaking you would want to send the weakest guy to repair the ship since he won't be fighting... but I digress this is speculation anyway lol...

If a video game makes you think you are heroic then you have some other issues that a phycologist should be exploring with you.

THESE ARE GAMES PEOPLE STOP ACTING AS THEY ARE REAL.

Originally posted by Ruckup

If a video game makes you think you are heroic then you have some other issues that a phycologist should be exploring with you.

 

THESE ARE GAMES PEOPLE STOP ACTING AS THEY ARE REAL.

Give me a fucking break. What do you do for a living? Do you do that when you enter a game? Christ i hope not, you better be slaying dragons or killing giant slugs before you vaporize an alien with a phaser gun. Video games are no different than comic books or movies they are just completely interactive. How can you not feel heroic.  Playing through a game like Demons Souls i felt like i was the best player the game had ever seen. So hell yeah games should be making you feel heroic, otherwise what's the point.

Just to answer the question. Have you ever felt heroic fighting of lots of NPCs?

I have at times..depending on the game of course...I rememeber many times when My group/raid would be just about dead depending on the last couple ppl still alive to kill the remaining Mobs that just happen to appear and screw our chances of success and when its you being that remaining few it could be really exciting showing what you had to everyone laying dead around you.....

You also feel this better in PvP when you get jumped by 2 or more and come out on top...got lots of examples from WoW in this pre battlegrounds/ battlegrounds/ jumped at random/looking for ppl at random...the better ones are when me and my brother duel rouged ppl at muhahaah(60s)

Originally posted by Ruckup

If a video game makes you think you are heroic then you have some other issues that a phycologist should be exploring with you.

 

THESE ARE GAMES PEOPLE STOP ACTING AS THEY ARE REAL.

Of COURSE game will make you heroic. Thats the whole point. Get over yourself.

Originally posted by Varny

The new combat video goes on about swinging around your Lightsaber or whatever right away. It goes on about the game being action packed and somehow that makes it Star Warsy. It goes on about how fighting in large groups with your friends isn't Heroic but, fighting alone against large enemies is. 

There has never been a point where I felt Heroic for killing lots of NPCs in an MMO. For one the AI is really dumb so you get no satisfaction out of that. Usually the Raids are where you feel the most badass because they are so hard and require so much teamwork. Once you start mindlessly killing lots of enemies, it just becomes generic and has no meaning. Frigging watch the new Star Wars movies where you have hundreds of clones and Jedi on the screen killing eachother. That had no impact, it felt souless and boring and most importantly it wasn't Star Warsy. What was heroic was Luke Skywalker standing up against the Emperor and saying he wouldn't kill his dad. He went on a journey that made us care for him because all the heroic things he did before weren't about swinging his lightsaber about all over the place. Yet when we watch the new movies that is what they are about, so all the characters are just bland and generic and you can't remember anything about them other than the bad acting.

To me it just feels like Bioware don't understand what makes Star Wars anymore. They keep saying how they wanted to make their own MMO and not copy the others, however they're just copying what is out there. So far you're killing lots of people to level up and they're trying to pack in lots of action to get you through them levels. However being a Jedi for example isn't about combat in the original movies. It was about using your whit and trying to keep the peace, only in the new movies they couldn't wait to start swinging their lightsabers about. When they were forced to combat in the originals, it was meaningful and a last resort. In the new movies it was all over the place cause Lucas wanted to go nuts with generic CGI. 

You know when I felt the most heroic in an MMO? When I was helping out other people and when I was grouped with other people. Nothing else made you feel more heroic than saving someone's life in the Dead Mines in WoW. As a crafter in SWG and you'd make perfect goods that pleased other people and they'd keep coming back to you for the best in the galaxy. When you ran past someone in Everquest and they were being chased, so you saved their life by taking their aggro. When you'd just have a nice event with the guild and everyone is around talking. There is nothing worse in an MMO than being alone because it makes you bored and makes the game feel dead.

The more I see of this game, the less it feels like Star Wars. Sure it looks like it apart from those horrible character models but, the new movies looked like Star Wars and well they didn't feel like it. It's such a shame because Bioware did so well with the original Kotor and you had to earn the ranks of Jedi, you didn't just start out as one. Didn't that make you feel heroic when you spent months trying to unlock Jedi in SWG and you finally did it? Yet for some reason to Bioware now it'll make us feel more heroic to start swinging around a lightsaber straight away.

1. Why do you feel a bigger hero fighting stupid AI in groups than solo? Being a "hero" is about fighting adversity and come out on top against near impossible odds. Pull through where you should have died. Chance of succes is bigger in a group, than solo. Surely it is fullfilling to pull through as a group, but so is it solo - for slightly different reasons.

2. Bioware, if any, truely understand what makes a good cinematic experience. Great plot and storytelling. Which was the thing for episode 4 and 5. Had Lucas started with episode 1-3 it might have a been different experience - that they dropped the ball lies somewhere else. Maybe the topic just wasn't as thrilling as it was in 1978. Hell, I even thought as a kid that episode 6 was beyond silly and too much kiddy stuff, and I was 12.

3. You can still feel like a hero in every MMO. It's not restricted to old skool MMOs.

4. Why would they try to copy SWG? It has already been made?

5. You are laying judgment on a game that is not even close to being finished. Have faith in Bioware, because they know what they are doing, unlike many others. If they are being allowed to do everything they envision is another thing altogether, but I have faith. And it can't be blind faith judging on how they have succeeded in the past.

Tbh, I don't feel heroic fighting NPCs players yes NPC's no , and I really don't care about being a hero cause its just trivial and pointless anymore, every eventually does the same thing, your just a schmuck with the title Hero #92340513.

Originally posted by MelonCrazy

Tbh, I don't feel heroic fighting NPCs players yes NPC's no , and I really don't care about being a hero cause its just trivial and pointless anymore, every eventually does the same thing, your just a schmuck with the title Hero #92340513.

I think Bioware would be thrilled if that were true :)

92 million players!

You can solo a group of your level mobs in AoC, 5-6 at the time np.

It was kinda cool....for a week.

Then I started yawning.