Trending Games | ArcheAge | Firefall | WildStar | Landmark

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,851,911 Users Online:0
Games:733  Posts:6,226,213
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Why Instances bad?

7 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Search
138 posts found
  Torik

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/02/09
Posts: 2324

4/29/10 3:53:02 PM#61
Originally posted by stayontarget

Running instance over and over again just so you can get that item you think you need....Thats just not my style man.

It's no better then farming the same mobs over and over in the open world for a loot drop.  It's a problem of itemization and not really one of instances.

  Murashu

Novice Member

Joined: 6/23/06
Posts: 1397

4/29/10 3:54:55 PM#62
Originally posted by FC-Famine

 

This is not a problem though. We have to cater to someone. What makes one side any different than the other side in that retrospect? If we cater to you, then the other side would make the exact same post you're making exclaiming, "Here is the problem!"

Now before someone wise chimes in and says, "Well the difference is in the numbers!" Then you will have to see some truth there. If a good bulk of players don't like to wait and don't want to share then yes, it makes sense to cater to those players. Otherwise, we would cater to a smaller minority where a larger group is exclaiming, "You JUST DONT GET IT!" 

On the other hand, it's possible to have both, but sometimes not so easy to have both. Regardless, it's not really a problem to the bigger picture, only to the individual. This is a massively multiplayer game and we have to cater to as many people as possible, not to just one person -- but many.

It's a pickle of a debate, I like both systems honestly, but that's only because I understand it from both sides of the fence.

 I think that is the main problem we have today. Everyone wants to make a game for the large group and thumb their nose at the smaller group. While all these game companies are fighting each other over the instant gratification, non-community customer base, they all ignore the rest of us. Hopefully one day a company will design a quality MMO for all of us who appreciate a sense of accomplishment and don't mind interacting with others.

www.agonysend.org

  Naxxa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/05/09
Posts: 18

4/29/10 4:27:38 PM#63

Instancing of dungeons is a necessary evil in MMOs. It's the only way to provide a decent environment for a dungeon craw without having to deal with the problem of griefing of other players.

Here's some of the problems of open world end game content:

Unless you are in a high-end guild you can forget about even seeing most of the bosses.

You have to deal with waiting for re-pop timers that are anywhere from 3 hours to 7+ days.

You have to compete with botters/cheaters/exploiters.

You have to deal with people trying to mpk (monster player kill) you in order to claim the boss.

After all this even if the boss drops 3 things 100% of the time, most of the guild will be left with nothing to show for it for months at a time. do to only getting claim a few times.


Compare this to 'wow style' instance dungeons that not only have multiple bosses but also many elite mobs that have a much higher drop rate then open world mobs.

A lot of people on these forums who are looking back at EQ1 or FFXI and remember camping some rare boss and getting the drop are forgetting the times they camped something for months and got nothing to show for it do to not getting claim or the drop. There also was/is many people who did 'end game' for a year+ and only got a few minor trinkets do to not getting in the handful of guilds that have practically full control over all the bosses. I'm not saying their times was completely wasted as most people I knew played to socialize with the friends they made in game, just saying its kinda poor design when your game is a better chatroom then a game.


In the case on instanced 'open world' such as CO and STO that is just really lame and comes off as poor programming and design rather then some attempt to solve a problem


  biofellis

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/05
Posts: 528

Building Worlds...
Rebuilding Reality.

4/29/10 4:38:23 PM#64

.

  fyerwall

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/01/04
Posts: 3197

4/29/10 4:48:15 PM#65

One thing I want to see in a game like WoW where instancing is used as a main theme; Random generated dungeons. Sure they can keep the normal instances the way they are, but at the same time give players a random dungeon generator that can build an instance based on a groups preferences (sorta like AO's mission terminals).

Seeing as in WoW most people only really care about the badges (points soon) and XP it would be a way to break the monotony of running the same 4 or 5 dungeons over and over.

There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"


  Garvon3

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/10
Posts: 2943

4/29/10 5:43:50 PM#66
Originally posted by Naxxa

Instancing of dungeons is a necessary evil in MMOs. It's the only way to provide a decent environment for a dungeon craw without having to deal with the problem of griefing of other players.

Here's some of the problems of open world end game content:

Unless you are in a high-end guild you can forget about even seeing most of the bosses.

You have to deal with waiting for re-pop timers that are anywhere from 3 hours to 7+ days.

You have to compete with botters/cheaters/exploiters.

You have to deal with people trying to mpk (monster player kill) you in order to claim the boss.

After all this even if the boss drops 3 things 100% of the time, most of the guild will be left with nothing to show for it for months at a time. do to only getting claim a few times.


 

 

Dark Age of Camelot had absolutely none of those problems and it didn't have instances. It's all about good game design. Instances are the lazy way out. 

As for the last bit, you STILL have to do raids a million times in WoW to get everyone everything they need. 

 

 

And as said before, other games already have randomly generated Dungeons. WoW doesn't because WoW is a very simple and nearly featureless game compared to old MMOs. 

  Cacaphony

Tipster

Joined: 4/07/10
Posts: 751

4/29/10 5:47:16 PM#67

I dont mind Instancing if its used sparingly. Like only for dungeons or something like that. When most of the game is instanced, thats when it bothers me. Like STO. 95 percent of that game is instanced. I cant stand that much instancing.

  Garvon3

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/10
Posts: 2943

4/29/10 5:54:26 PM#68
Originally posted by Cacaphony

I dont mind Instancing if its used sparingly. Like only for dungeons or something like that. When most of the game is instanced, thats when it bothers me. Like STO. 95 percent of that game is instanced. I cant stand that much instancing.

Well why should you have to settle for instanced dungeons? 

For many, they know no other way, but let me tell you, there is almost nothing more enjoyable in an MMO then traveling deep into a dungeon, and tossing together a party of scared adventurers, picking them up along the way, and then becoming conquerors of said dungeon. Some of those random friendships I STILL have from 8 years ago. 

  Cacaphony

Tipster

Joined: 4/07/10
Posts: 751

4/29/10 5:57:56 PM#69


Originally posted by Garvon3


Originally posted by Cacaphony
I dont mind Instancing if its used sparingly. Like only for dungeons or something like that. When most of the game is instanced, thats when it bothers me. Like STO. 95 percent of that game is instanced. I cant stand that much instancing.


Well why should you have to settle for instanced dungeons? 
For many, they know no other way, but let me tell you, there is almost nothing more enjoyable in an MMO then traveling deep into a dungeon, and tossing together a party of scared adventurers, picking them up along the way, and then becoming conquerors of said dungeon. Some of those random friendships I STILL have from 8 years ago. 


Well, its my preference that I would not have to settle for instancing at all. However, every game pretty much has instancing now, so Im willing to go the next step and tolerate it so long as the game has minimal instancing.... such as only dungeons or what not.

This is a huge reason as to why I cant stand STO. Im hoping and hoping that games coming out will avoid this... but if they dont then i guess im out of luck.

  User Deleted
4/29/10 7:38:39 PM#70
Originally posted by Garvon3

Well why should you have to settle for instanced dungeons? 

For many, they know no other way, but let me tell you, there is almost nothing more enjoyable in an MMO then traveling deep into a dungeon, and tossing together a party of scared adventurers, picking them up along the way, and then becoming conquerors of said dungeon. Some of those random friendships I STILL have from 8 years ago. 

I know what you are talking about and i like it too. Personally i prefer a middle of the road approach though. Have a couple of instanced dungeons but have as much or more shared. Another approach could be to have half the dungons non-instanced and on the rest have the option to either create an instance or go on the shared instance.

The game should have anyway bosses + encounters on the outer shared world anyway, not just normal mobs.

  Garvon3

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/10
Posts: 2943

4/29/10 7:42:54 PM#71
Originally posted by Cacaphony

 


Originally posted by Garvon3


Originally posted by Cacaphony
I dont mind Instancing if its used sparingly. Like only for dungeons or something like that. When most of the game is instanced, thats when it bothers me. Like STO. 95 percent of that game is instanced. I cant stand that much instancing.



Well why should you have to settle for instanced dungeons? 
For many, they know no other way, but let me tell you, there is almost nothing more enjoyable in an MMO then traveling deep into a dungeon, and tossing together a party of scared adventurers, picking them up along the way, and then becoming conquerors of said dungeon. Some of those random friendships I STILL have from 8 years ago. 


 


Well, its my preference that I would not have to settle for instancing at all. However, every game pretty much has instancing now, so Im willing to go the next step and tolerate it so long as the game has minimal instancing.... such as only dungeons or what not.

This is a huge reason as to why I cant stand STO. Im hoping and hoping that games coming out will avoid this... but if they dont then i guess im out of luck.

True enough I suppose. I generally hunt for the tiny tiny bit of games that still are uninstanced, but yeah, you have to make concessions or just give up on "MMOs". At least there's still Vangu-er oh wait. Well, at least there's Darkfall :/ but I wish a DAoC style MMO would get made without instances. 

  Eindrachen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/03/06
Posts: 213

4/29/10 7:46:46 PM#72

Instancing is pretty much a neccessity.  It reduces server loads, and does a great job of reducing griefing of certain types (like kill-stealing).

But there will always and ever be a love of the great open outdoors.  I tried EQ2 for a while.  While the instancing wasn't the only reason I quit, it was definitely a significant factor.

  just2duh

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/09
Posts: 1292

4/29/10 7:49:27 PM#73

 I think why most people hate instancing vs a completly open world is because then they can't pk and grief people as much lol. Argue that all you want but you know there are plenty of people out there that play mmo's for the soul purpose of ruining others enjoyment, and instancing ruins theirs.

(oh is seems the person above me thought the same, it must be true then :P )

  Garvon3

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/10
Posts: 2943

4/29/10 7:50:37 PM#74
Originally posted by Eindrachen

Instancing is pretty much a neccessity.  It reduces server loads, and does a great job of reducing griefing of certain types (like kill-stealing).

But there will always and ever be a love of the great open outdoors.  I tried EQ2 for a while.  While the instancing wasn't the only reason I quit, it was definitely a significant factor.

Are there really this many people who think there's no other way? Did all of you play poorly designed MMOs? :/ 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19530

4/29/10 11:14:11 PM#75
Originally posted by Garvon3
Originally posted by Eindrachen

Instancing is pretty much a neccessity.  It reduces server loads, and does a great job of reducing griefing of certain types (like kill-stealing).

But there will always and ever be a love of the great open outdoors.  I tried EQ2 for a while.  While the instancing wasn't the only reason I quit, it was definitely a significant factor.

Are there really this many people who think there's no other way? Did all of you play poorly designed MMOs? :/ 

Yeah .. all of us played EQ.

Seriously, either a) you have a boss that is not popular (with no good loot) and no one cares to fight him, or b) the boss is popular and you need to take a number to wait in line.

And don't give me the crap about having enough content to satisfy everyone. No developers in the world can create enough bosses to 2000 people on a server don't have to fight over them.

  biofellis

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/05
Posts: 528

Building Worlds...
Rebuilding Reality.

4/30/10 12:03:48 AM#76

.

  FC-Famine

Funcom Community Manager

Joined: 10/17/06
Posts: 278

4/30/10 6:13:20 AM#77
Originally posted by Murashu
Originally posted by FC-Famine

 

This is not a problem though. We have to cater to someone. What makes one side any different than the other side in that retrospect? If we cater to you, then the other side would make the exact same post you're making exclaiming, "Here is the problem!"

Now before someone wise chimes in and says, "Well the difference is in the numbers!" Then you will have to see some truth there. If a good bulk of players don't like to wait and don't want to share then yes, it makes sense to cater to those players. Otherwise, we would cater to a smaller minority where a larger group is exclaiming, "You JUST DONT GET IT!" 

On the other hand, it's possible to have both, but sometimes not so easy to have both. Regardless, it's not really a problem to the bigger picture, only to the individual. This is a massively multiplayer game and we have to cater to as many people as possible, not to just one person -- but many.

It's a pickle of a debate, I like both systems honestly, but that's only because I understand it from both sides of the fence.

 I think that is the main problem we have today. Everyone wants to make a game for the large group and thumb their nose at the smaller group. While all these game companies are fighting each other over the instant gratification, non-community customer base, they all ignore the rest of us. Hopefully one day a company will design a quality MMO for all of us who appreciate a sense of accomplishment and don't mind interacting with others.

That's basically the same point I just made under a different wrapping. You will never be able to please everyone. You have to cater to someone and there will always be a group of people who feel left out. There is just no way around it no matter if you're developing a TV or a massively multiplayer online game.

It's just the nature of the business.

I would love nothing more than my car to have the ability to fly me to work, but I also understand that I'm the minority and would not see this feature added to my car anytime soon. I don't blame the car company for appealing to their primary customer demands, but I do wish they would add it too!

Glen ''Famine'' Swan
Senior Assistant Community Manager - Funcom

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6923

4/30/10 6:26:38 AM#78


Originally posted by Murashu

 I think that is the main problem we have today. Everyone wants to make a game for the large group and thumb their nose at the smaller group. While all these game companies are fighting each other over the instant gratification, non-community customer base, they all ignore the rest of us. Hopefully one day a company will design a quality MMO for all of us who appreciate a sense of accomplishment and don't mind interacting with others.


Who is 'rest of us'? It is not all that black & white and even when you focus at smaller community, it is not homogeneous and there will always be a group of people feeling unhappy about the game.

Many design choices are antinomic and trying to please everyone is a way to failure.


  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19530

4/30/10 11:35:27 AM#79
Originally posted by biofellis
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Garvon3
Originally posted by Eindrachen

Instancing is pretty much a neccessity.  It reduces server loads, and does a great job of reducing griefing of certain types (like kill-stealing).

But there will always and ever be a love of the great open outdoors.  I tried EQ2 for a while.  While the instancing wasn't the only reason I quit, it was definitely a significant factor.

Are there really this many people who think there's no other way? Did all of you play poorly designed MMOs? :/ 

Yeah .. all of us played EQ.

Seriously, either a) you have a boss that is not popular (with no good loot) and no one cares to fight him, or b) the boss is popular and you need to take a number to wait in line.

And don't give me the crap about having enough content to satisfy everyone. No developers in the world can create enough bosses to 2000 people on a server don't have to fight over them.

All it takes to make a 'new' boss is to paint a new texture on an old one (if you want) & clone him. Yeah- you could do more, but why bother? People don't care that he pops back up in half an hour, they sure as hell won't care if he has a 'doppleganger' a mile over the hill. Make all variants of the same boss respawn simultaneously so people can't do a circuit, and voila. 2000 people? no prob we'll say 200 per level group (8 levels)- maybe half those guys all want a boss at once (worst case except at high level)- make 10 man raids the norm (we'll say) that's a boss plus 19 total clones for no waiting.

Computers are cool- you could even write a program to vary their looks/colors if you want. Name them according to some convention so people know they don't 'need' a boss the 'killed' if they stumble onto one somewhere they didn't know about.

And all these bosses have lackeys who employ some 'quick jump'/teleport tech, so if there's a queue, you can jump to the next one.

Instances? The same work is done by the machine- it's just the player to player data updates that they cut down. That's cpu & bandwidth- which equals money. Better games cost more.

Course Guild Wars has no sub fee- and they've survived. Who knows what the other guys are doing with their 'allowance'- but I know what they're not doing- they're not trying to get rid of instancing.

Won't work. Just a model of a boss is not an encounter. If you want to duplicate all the fun interaction (like how to fight him), you need to have the same script, same environment, and so on. You may as well have instances.

Plus, you cannot control how many are fighting the boss at once and make tuning difficulty of the encounter impossible.

  biofellis

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/05
Posts: 528

Building Worlds...
Rebuilding Reality.

4/30/10 1:09:13 PM#80

.

7 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Search