Yes the numbers are estimates but they are the most accurate available. Chart from mmodata.net.

Edit: Yes I am referring to the sharp spike and fall of AOC/ WAR and the consistency of other mmos. Full size version of the chart here http://i41.tinypic.com/2ep7nrq.jpg

What about LoTR. Isn't that sort of a WoW clone?

So for what kind of players MMO should be made? those 20K who play darkfall or those 5K Xyson devs are targetting?

A bone throwed perhaps? A chart depicting data samples without context?

Originally posted by pojung

A bone throwed perhaps? A chart depicting data samples without context?

 I think he's getting at the sharp spike then drop to death of WAR and AoC.

Originally posted by Palebane

Originally posted by pojung

A bone throwed perhaps? A chart depicting data samples without context?

 I think he's getting at the sharp spike then drop to death of WAR and AoC.

Ah, makes sense. Initial glance showed nothing but random patterns and no supporting context didn't help.

Note, however, FFXI and EvE (and Dofus? where have I been?) just chuggin alone fine, gaining steam... that's hilarious.

Edit: fails to show Rom, Allods, Aion... which are arguably 'WoW clones'...

Originally posted by pojung

Originally posted by Palebane

Originally posted by pojung

A bone throwed perhaps? A chart depicting data samples without context?

 I think he's getting at the sharp spike then drop to death of WAR and AoC.

Ah, makes sense. Initial glance showed nothing but random patterns and no supporting context didn't help.

Note, however, FFXI and EvE (and Dofus? where have I been?) just chuggin alone fine, gaining steam... that's hilarious.

Edit: fails to show Rom, Allods, Aion... which are arguably 'WoW clones'...

Ask yourself if EVE, FFXI and Dofus are WoW clones lol.  Also to be fair I don't think Dofus has a monthly fee?

Originally posted by gauge2k3

Ask yourself if EVE, FFXI and Dofus are WoW clones lol.  Also to be fair I don't think Dofus has a monthly fee?

Wasn't the point I was getting at when I mentioned them, quite the opposite actually. Curiosity sparked me to google Dofus... and wasn't surprised with what I found, and why the title never appeared on my radar.

Aion is around 3.5 million subs due to Asia.

Without Asian subs Aion is under 250k subs in NA/Euro if you do a little math on Xfire.

Basically it means in the west WoW clones sell dick.

All post WoW themeparks in the west are sub 250k.

Guess the devs need to try something else unless they enjoy spending 50+ million on developement to retain those subs.

Originally posted by Rockgod99

 

Aion is around 3.5 million subs due to Asia.

Without Asian subs Aion is under 250k subs in NA/Euro if you do a little math on Xfire.

Basically it means in the west WoW clones sell dick.

All post WoW themeparks in the west are sub 250k.

Guess the devs need to try something else unless they enjoy spending 50+ million on developement to retain those subs.

And which MMO out of this list has spent 50+ million in development?

Originally posted by Shastra

Originally posted by Rockgod99

 

Aion is around 3.5 million subs due to Asia.

Without Asian subs Aion is under 250k subs in NA/Euro if you do a little math on Xfire.

Basically it means in the west WoW clones sell dick.

All post WoW themeparks in the west are sub 250k.

Guess the devs need to try something else unless they enjoy spending 50+ million on developement to retain those subs.

And which MMO out of this list has spent 50+ million in development?

I know I will get flamed for talking out of my bum, but quite a few.  I don't unfortunately remember where I saw the chart.

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Originally posted by Palebane

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Originally posted by pojung
A bone throwed perhaps? A chart depicting data samples without context?

---

 I think he's getting at the sharp spike then drop to death of WAR and AoC.

---

Originally posted by Shastra

Originally posted by Rockgod99

 

Aion is around 3.5 million subs due to Asia.

Without Asian subs Aion is under 250k subs in NA/Euro if you do a little math on Xfire.

Basically it means in the west WoW clones sell dick.

All post WoW themeparks in the west are sub 250k.

Guess the devs need to try something else unless they enjoy spending 50+ million on developement to retain those subs.

And which MMO out of this list has spent 50+ million in development?

Most of the AAA themeparks since WoW released have been around 50 mill.

Anyway... guys I dont see why everyone shouldnt be agreeing with the OP. I mean if your a fan of WoW, keep playing it (the 12.5 million subs of the game surely do). This genre needs to go in a different direction. proven by the crappy sub retention by every damn game trying to pull wows players.

Well we can definately see where all the EQ1 players went to.  i find it ironic how just 6 months after the release of WoW that EQ1's subs drop drastically.

Nice to see Eve doing well, got to love it when something that is truely original makes headway. 

Funny thing is, the games in the chart that pretty much flopped, has absolutely nothing to with WoW, or wether or not they were like it, or who it was made for etc. It has to with bad launches loaded with bugs & othe rtechnical issues as well as things like lack of content, class balance issues, or just plain being sucky and boring. 

Title should be "And this is why you dont make mmos that suck" or "And this is why you dont make mmos without fixing most of the bugs first"

Originally posted by Jamkull

Well we can definately see where all the EQ1 players went to.  i find it ironic how just 6 months after the release of WoW that EQ1's subs drop drastically.

Nice to see Eve doing well, got to love it when something that is truely original makes headway. 

Well I thought it was partially WoW and partially the release of their own EQ2, I mean the numbers they lose they pretty much get in EQ2 players.

I like looking at Lotro on this chart... It is probably the most similar game to wow, yet it has stabily gained subscriptions. I don't think AOC even qualifies as a wow clone...

It is a strange choice of games (no Lineages?).

Got to agree with Kaiser though. It really has everything to do with abysmal releases - massive amounts of content that was promised and hyped not included and what was there was buggy as hell.

AoC has improved since release and is really seeing players returning (I think they are returning rather than totally new players), but they have made a lot of changes and adding content and even an expansion - still not ever really going to expand too much. WAR however has had none of that, a dev team that has been playing musical chairs for the past 18 months and no sign of any new content on the horizon anywhere (desite Muzykas offhand claim).

WoW doesn't even factor in to the reasons.

Looks like we need more games like Dofus :)

Oh...and you dont see Lineage there b/c it is on the larger 1MM+ chart.

http://mmodata.net/

FFXI seems to be stable at 500k subs for the last 4 years and starting to rise? :P guess they are doing something right....