Originally posted by camp11111

Originally posted by Garvon3

Do you even read before you post? 

All the people before me, and I myself have said, they DIDN'T listen to the Dark Age of Camelot players. Battlegrounds and PvP in WAR was much more like WoW than DAoC. Cross realm battlegrounds had nothing to do with it failing. Population isn't a problem, if the game was good enough to have people playing. But it wasn't. 

 

Listen I was there on their forums and pleaded for cross server PvP content, because I know the limits per server capacity in what they wanted to bring.

You should have seen the exact same posts you are still posting. People teared us apart ...

Sigh.

WAR population problem was a design problem: you can't divide your players in dozens of different RvR zones and Tiers and scenarios on - ONE - server without running into problems.

And of course we saw the end results.

Like I said: times change and WOW hate indeed had a very negative impact on WAR (at launch) and their decisions to stick to "hardcore" posters.

It resulted in having nor fish nor meat....

Only now they are reducing the number of RvR zones and scenarios. Finally they regroup.

If they had listened to the DAoC players there wouldn't have been "battleground tiers" at all. 

Originally posted by camp11111

Originally posted by Garvon3

[Mod Edit]

 

The MMORPG industry is being HELD BACK by WoW hate? Rejecting the "standards" of WoW is the only thing that's going to bring innovation back to a genre that's been dead in the water since 2004. WoW still has not come up with a single unique idea in 5 years. Not one. 

If a new game comes along, and people flip out because it doesn't have (x) feature from WoW, or (y) feature is a bit harder than it is in WoW, the WoW tourists, who have never played any other MMO, or even a real MMO from before WoW, whine and complain that its too hard, or they don't get it, cause they've played a game where everything is simple and easy for so long. 

 

WoW hate exists for a reason.

You look at the innovation from 1999 to 2004, then 2004-2010, and you notice a huge problem. Games started going backwards. 

 

Actually ... WAR has been mentioned over here and it is a very nice illustration of WOW hate that's holding "back" the industry.

A perfect example?

I was there on the unofficial official WAR Alliance forums 2 years before the WAR launch.

I remember the forum yelling agains the cross server Battlegrounds (sorry scenarios), ... because people wanted to see their enemies on their realms in their eyes and cross server BG's would just kill this" realm pride " feeling.

Well, Mythic listened to the "hardcore" and the result was ... that only a handful of those dozen scenarios opened up of course, because you simply have to few ... players per server to have fights over that many scenarios.

The same for the too many RvR zones: people were spread out in underpopulated realms and the result was ... no fights at all.

Mythic listened to the WOW haters and came up with a dud. Half solutions because they listened to forum whiners.

Also: remember the FunCom Ex director ... who compared his AoConan with a first class restaurant against the cheep burger of WOW.

When I read that, I thought, My God, this man is running a game company and he is using subpar forum emotions.

2 months later he was fired (of course what did you expect ?).....

DAMN STRAIGHT!!!!

you right on the point camp11111

Originally posted by tro44_1

Originally posted by camp11111

Originally posted by Garvon3

[Mod Edit]

 

The MMORPG industry is being HELD BACK by WoW hate? Rejecting the "standards" of WoW is the only thing that's going to bring innovation back to a genre that's been dead in the water since 2004. WoW still has not come up with a single unique idea in 5 years. Not one. 

If a new game comes along, and people flip out because it doesn't have (x) feature from WoW, or (y) feature is a bit harder than it is in WoW, the WoW tourists, who have never played any other MMO, or even a real MMO from before WoW, whine and complain that its too hard, or they don't get it, cause they've played a game where everything is simple and easy for so long. 

 

WoW hate exists for a reason.

You look at the innovation from 1999 to 2004, then 2004-2010, and you notice a huge problem. Games started going backwards. 

 

Actually ... WAR has been mentioned over here and it is a very nice illustration of WOW hate that's holding "back" the industry.

A perfect example?

I was there on the unofficial official WAR Alliance forums 2 years before the WAR launch.

I remember the forum yelling agains the cross server Battlegrounds (sorry scenarios), ... because people wanted to see their enemies on their realms in their eyes and cross server BG's would just kill this" realm pride " feeling.

Well, Mythic listened to the "hardcore" and the result was ... that only a handful of those dozen scenarios opened up of course, because you simply have to few ... players per server to have fights over that many scenarios.

The same for the too many RvR zones: people were spread out in underpopulated realms and the result was ... no fights at all.

Mythic listened to the WOW haters and came up with a dud. Half solutions because they listened to forum whiners.

Also: remember the FunCom Ex director ... who compared his AoConan with a first class restaurant against the cheep burger of WOW.

When I read that, I thought, My God, this man is running a game company and he is using subpar forum emotions.

2 months later he was fired (of course what did you expect ?).....

DAMN STRAIGHT!!!!

you right on the point camp11111

 

Of course ...
 

And the good thing ... of it all is that these posters above illistrate my example perfectly.

they STILL use the same arguments (DOAC did this and that etc ...)

while WAR failed exactly by what they were posting back then.

Luckily for Blizzard the Rob Pardos of this world can be counted on one hand.

But sad for the industry ...

Originally posted by camp11111

Originally posted by XxMaticxX

Originally posted by camp11111

Mythic listened to the WOW haters and came up with a dud. Half solutions because they listened to forum whiners.

 

are you kidding me? they basically Made WoW with more focus on RVR. they didn't listen to the anti wow crowd enough. because if they had they would have made DAOC2 with Warhammer skins and the game would have been a smashing hit. instead they tried to make WoW 1.5 with a tacked on RVR lake system.

 

Read my post: the forums one year before launch demanded single realm fights, no cross server battlegrounds.

Mythic gave in ... of course killing the RvR AND the 12 battlegrounds (scenario's) on single server based pops.

You always regroup your players not divide them into a zillion fighting zones.

A perfect example. WAR always had that trouble of server populations ... because they listened to old forum whiners...

[Mod Edit] 

1) WAR was on the edge of being a BG only game

it would have died within 6 months. It was terrible, it was tedious. it was horrible, it was boring. and whats even more important, it was a huge step back from DAOC, the game that provided most of their playerbase.

thanks to the "forum whiners" they reworked the game to add keeps and ORvR, because at first they never intended to do so. sadly they just did the least work possible and the game ended having tons of performance problems ,endless bugs and glitches, and terrible career balances (they balanced the game for 12v12 encounters, not for 250v250)

2) the most common post during the beta phase was "oh my god what have you done, this looks like a complete wow clone "

posted hundreds of times, but only once per person, since those who posted such were promptly banned. They didnt want negative feedback

the outcome? Mythic blowed the biggest MMO budget in history with a crap of cataclysmic dimensions and the game is rightfully about to die. and the "forum whiners" told them this 1 year before release, but they didnt want to hear.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by XxMaticxX

Originally posted by camp11111

Originally posted by Garvon3

Originally posted by camp11111

Originally posted by XxMaticxX

Originally posted by camp11111

Mythic listened to the WOW haters and came up with a dud. Half solutions because they listened to forum whiners.

 

are you kidding me? they basically Made WoW with more focus on RVR. they didn't listen to the anti wow crowd enough. because if they had they would have made DAOC2 with Warhammer skins and the game would have been a smashing hit. instead they tried to make WoW 1.5 with a tacked on RVR lake system.

 

Read my post: the forums one year before launch demanded single realm fights, no cross server battlegrounds.

Mythic gave in ... of course killing the RvR AND the 12 battlegrounds (scenario's) on single server based pops.

You always regroup your players not divide them into a zillion fighting zones.

A perfect example. WAR always had that trouble of server populations ... because they listened to old forum whiners...

Uhh... what? Dark Age of Camelot has been around for 10 years without cross server battlegrounds. How was that the features that broke WAR? I think someone here needs to brush up on MMO history. One of the main issues with WAR wasn't even a fault of the developers, it was two factions instead of 3. But that was forced upon it by Warhammer lore. 3 warring factions works much better. 

 

You are a perfect illustration about my theory !

Exactly the same arguments even... now. Incredible really.  "It worked in DAoC, so ... if they only listened ..."

Well it did not work. Simple. if WAR HAD included cross server PvP, they wouldn't have had the same server pop problems.

Easy. it baffles me that even now the same arguments are being used.

Lesson: times change: PvP competition will be build on guild PvP play and ladder rated Battlegrounds in Cata.

Advantage: independant of server capacity and always ongoing.

Conclusion: Wow hate motivated Mythic to change strategy at the very last minute.

Perfect example of not having anything consistent as a strategy.

 

lol another reason to hate WoW players, they twist anything they can to suit their argument. so it failed because they didn't implement cross server scenarios? LOL give me a break.

 

it failed because it tried to pull away from the WoW playerbase by giving them the exact same game except with more PVP focus. from the graphics, mechanics RIGHT DOWN TO THE UI. if failed because it was a WoW clone not because it didn't copy WoW enough.

Nailed it, but no use arguing with Zorndorf, he's never viewed the rest of the MMO world without his WOW colored glasses on.

WAR failed because it was too much like WOW, and not enough like DAOC. Simple as that.

RVR was tacked  on as an afterthought when players started screaming that the battle ground scenarios were too lame.  It should have been part of the core design.

 

Well then

Cause Camp11111 is right. You are wrong. The Forum community was screaming agaisnt that stuff long before the game came out. Then it floped in their face.

Originally posted by arcdevil

[Mod Edit] 

1) WAR was on the edge of being a BG only game

it would have died within 6 months. It was terrible, it was tedious. it was horrible, it was boring. and whats even more important, it was a huge step back from DAOC, the game that provided most of their playerbase.

thanks to the "forum whiners" they reworked the game to add keeps and ORvR, because at first they never intended to do so. sadly they just did the least work possible and the game ended having tons of performance problems ,endless bugs and glitches, and terrible career balances (they balanced the game for 12v12 encounters, not for 250v250)

 

2) the most common post during the beta phase was "oh my god what have you done, this looks like a complete wow clone "

posted hundreds of times, but only once per person, since those who posted such were promptly banned. They didnt want negative feedback

 

 

the outcome? Mythic blowed the biggest MMO budget in history with a crap of cataclysmic dimensions and the game is rightfully about to die. and the "forum whiners" told them this 1 year before release, but they didnt want to hear.

 

 

I couldn't have said it any better !

And your RvR system "tx to us forum posters " (the blue) ...

Did it work ? .... nope.

because they listened to the WOW haters...

Better example than I ever could post really.

Cross server battlegrounds were "bad" because it was in WOW, so it couldn't be done! you can't accept an idea from WOW as a WOW hater.

Sad really.

because in the end: ... you need to have the people to have PvP.

WOW hate took over from sound logic of how to group up with people who want to have a fight... War would never had server population problems with cross server PvP tools and RvR attached to it.

Originally posted by camp11111

Originally posted by arcdevil

[Mod Edit] 

1) WAR was on the edge of being a BG only game

it would have died within 6 months. It was terrible, it was tedious. it was horrible, it was boring. and whats even more important, it was a huge step back from DAOC, the game that provided most of their playerbase.

thanks to the "forum whiners" they reworked the game to add keeps and ORvR, because at first they never intended to do so. sadly they just did the least work possible and the game ended having tons of performance problems ,endless bugs and glitches, and terrible career balances (they balanced the game for 12v12 encounters, not for 250v250)

 

2) the most common post during the beta phase was "oh my god what have you done, this looks like a complete wow clone "

posted hundreds of times, but only once per person, since those who posted such were promptly banned. They didnt want negative feedback

 

 

the outcome? Mythic blowed the biggest MMO budget in history with a crap of cataclysmic dimensions and the game is rightfully about to die. and the "forum whiners" told them this 1 year before release, but they didnt want to hear.

 

 

 

I couldn't have said it any better !

And your RvR system "tx to us forum posters " (the blue) ...

Did it work ? .... nope.

because they listened to the WOW haters...

Better example than I ever could post really.

Cross server battlegrounds were "bad" because it was in WOW, so it couldn't be done! you can't accept an idea from WOW as a WOW hater.

Sad really.

because in the end: ... you need to have the people to have PvP.

WOW hate took over from sound logic of how to group up with people who want to have a fight... War would never had server population problems with cross server PvP tools and RvR attached to it.

 

 

 

I wonder if he's just being sarcastic or he actually thinks that poster is agreeing with him... 

At the end of the day, the truth remains the same. WAR failed because its core fans didn't like it, because Mythic catered to WoW fans and didn't build on their previous success. No cross server battlegrounds would have saved a bad battleground system. If the battlegrounds were designed like the ones in DAoC, they weren't have even had tiers, but why do I bother, you just ignore all other points and scream "you just hate WoW cause its popular, you're old, get with the times!". 

Originally posted by Garvon3

Originally posted by camp11111

Originally posted by arcdevil

[Mod Edit] 

1) WAR was on the edge of being a BG only game

it would have died within 6 months. It was terrible, it was tedious. it was horrible, it was boring. and whats even more important, it was a huge step back from DAOC, the game that provided most of their playerbase.

thanks to the "forum whiners" they reworked the game to add keeps and ORvR, because at first they never intended to do so. sadly they just did the least work possible and the game ended having tons of performance problems ,endless bugs and glitches, and terrible career balances (they balanced the game for 12v12 encounters, not for 250v250)

 

2) the most common post during the beta phase was "oh my god what have you done, this looks like a complete wow clone "

posted hundreds of times, but only once per person, since those who posted such were promptly banned. They didnt want negative feedback

 

 

the outcome? Mythic blowed the biggest MMO budget in history with a crap of cataclysmic dimensions and the game is rightfully about to die. and the "forum whiners" told them this 1 year before release, but they didnt want to hear.

 

 

 

I couldn't have said it any better !

And your RvR system "tx to us forum posters " (the blue) ...

Did it work ? .... nope.

because they listened to the WOW haters...

Better example than I ever could post really.

Cross server battlegrounds were "bad" because it was in WOW, so it couldn't be done! you can't accept an idea from WOW as a WOW hater.

Sad really.

because in the end: ... you need to have the people to have PvP.

WOW hate took over from sound logic of how to group up with people who want to have a fight... War would never had server population problems with cross server PvP tools and RvR attached to it.

 

 

 

I wonder if he's just being sarcastic or he actually thinks that poster is agreeing with him... 

At the end of the day, the truth remains the same. WAR failed because its core fans didn't like it, because Mythic catered to WoW fans and didn't build on their previous success. No cross server battlegrounds would have saved a bad battleground system. If the battlegrounds were designed like the ones in DAoC, they weren't have even had tiers, but why do I bother, you just ignore all other points and scream "you just hate WoW cause its popular, you're old, get with the times!". 

LOL

They added all that cause WoW haters complained about Travel time in WoW. I directly remember my thread on that subject.

So in the end, you got the load screen tier zones. 

Do the WoW Hater Dance with me

Originally posted by tro44_1

Originally posted by Garvon3

Originally posted by camp11111

Originally posted by arcdevil

[Mod Edit] 

1) WAR was on the edge of being a BG only game

it would have died within 6 months. It was terrible, it was tedious. it was horrible, it was boring. and whats even more important, it was a huge step back from DAOC, the game that provided most of their playerbase.

thanks to the "forum whiners" they reworked the game to add keeps and ORvR, because at first they never intended to do so. sadly they just did the least work possible and the game ended having tons of performance problems ,endless bugs and glitches, and terrible career balances (they balanced the game for 12v12 encounters, not for 250v250)

 

2) the most common post during the beta phase was "oh my god what have you done, this looks like a complete wow clone "

posted hundreds of times, but only once per person, since those who posted such were promptly banned. They didnt want negative feedback

 

 

the outcome? Mythic blowed the biggest MMO budget in history with a crap of cataclysmic dimensions and the game is rightfully about to die. and the "forum whiners" told them this 1 year before release, but they didnt want to hear.

 

 

 

I couldn't have said it any better !

And your RvR system "tx to us forum posters " (the blue) ...

Did it work ? .... nope.

because they listened to the WOW haters...

Better example than I ever could post really.

Cross server battlegrounds were "bad" because it was in WOW, so it couldn't be done! you can't accept an idea from WOW as a WOW hater.

Sad really.

because in the end: ... you need to have the people to have PvP.

WOW hate took over from sound logic of how to group up with people who want to have a fight... War would never had server population problems with cross server PvP tools and RvR attached to it.

 

 

 

I wonder if he's just being sarcastic or he actually thinks that poster is agreeing with him... 

At the end of the day, the truth remains the same. WAR failed because its core fans didn't like it, because Mythic catered to WoW fans and didn't build on their previous success. No cross server battlegrounds would have saved a bad battleground system. If the battlegrounds were designed like the ones in DAoC, they weren't have even had tiers, but why do I bother, you just ignore all other points and scream "you just hate WoW cause its popular, you're old, get with the times!". 

 

LOL

They added all that cause WoW haters complained about Travel time in WoW. I directly remember my thread on that subject.

So in the end, you got the load screen tier zones. 

Do the WoW Hater Dance with me

 

No self respecting Dark Age of Camelot player would complain about travel times, considering travel time was an important factor of RvR in DAoC. And WoW travel time? What travel time? WoW is a small world connected by teleports, hardly much travel time at all compared to DAoC. I think you're confusing your factions. 

Originally posted by Garvon3

Originally posted by tro44_1

Originally posted by Garvon3

Originally posted by camp11111

Originally posted by arcdevil

[Mod Edit] 

1) WAR was on the edge of being a BG only game

it would have died within 6 months. It was terrible, it was tedious. it was horrible, it was boring. and whats even more important, it was a huge step back from DAOC, the game that provided most of their playerbase.

thanks to the "forum whiners" they reworked the game to add keeps and ORvR, because at first they never intended to do so. sadly they just did the least work possible and the game ended having tons of performance problems ,endless bugs and glitches, and terrible career balances (they balanced the game for 12v12 encounters, not for 250v250)

 

2) the most common post during the beta phase was "oh my god what have you done, this looks like a complete wow clone "

posted hundreds of times, but only once per person, since those who posted such were promptly banned. They didnt want negative feedback

 

 

the outcome? Mythic blowed the biggest MMO budget in history with a crap of cataclysmic dimensions and the game is rightfully about to die. and the "forum whiners" told them this 1 year before release, but they didnt want to hear.

 

 

 

I couldn't have said it any better !

And your RvR system "tx to us forum posters " (the blue) ...

Did it work ? .... nope.

because they listened to the WOW haters...

Better example than I ever could post really.

Cross server battlegrounds were "bad" because it was in WOW, so it couldn't be done! you can't accept an idea from WOW as a WOW hater.

Sad really.

because in the end: ... you need to have the people to have PvP.

WOW hate took over from sound logic of how to group up with people who want to have a fight... War would never had server population problems with cross server PvP tools and RvR attached to it.

 

 

 

I wonder if he's just being sarcastic or he actually thinks that poster is agreeing with him... 

At the end of the day, the truth remains the same. WAR failed because its core fans didn't like it, because Mythic catered to WoW fans and didn't build on their previous success. No cross server battlegrounds would have saved a bad battleground system. If the battlegrounds were designed like the ones in DAoC, they weren't have even had tiers, but why do I bother, you just ignore all other points and scream "you just hate WoW cause its popular, you're old, get with the times!". 

 

LOL

They added all that cause WoW haters complained about Travel time in WoW. I directly remember my thread on that subject.

So in the end, you got the load screen tier zones. 

Do the WoW Hater Dance with me

 

No self respecting Dark Age of Camelot player would complain about travel times, considering travel time was an important factor of RvR in DAoC. And WoW travel time? What travel time? WoW is a small world connected by teleports, hardly much travel time at all compared to DAoC. I think you're confusing your factions. 

AGAIN THEY LISTENED TO WOW HATER!!!!
 

Its on the OP. Read it.

This has been something WoW Haters have complained about. Go look up early Warhammer threads on War Alliance, and Guild Wars forum for examples of this behavior.

GO LOOK

It's all very logical.

The players that hate WOW want another kind of game and don't accept WOW mechanics in their games (like the cross server Bg's in WAR).

The problem is ... most of the attractive and succesful formulas are ... already in Blizzard's game.

So now you have two options: or stay with your own tuned ideas (and being shot by the haters) or go for some strange niche fields which actually represent mostly non succesful ideas (not even talking of bad ideas).

Like full loot, very hard death penalties, extreme boring and long grinds, etc...

So in a way the posts in this thread are very clear to me.

WOW hate is hampering the industry. Look at the hate against newer techniques introduced in WOW recently (automated cross server LFG tool, phasing, dual specs, easy grouping, methods of gearing up etc...)

ALL shot to pieces, but ... ALL succesful. So what can a publisher even do these days ....

With Blizzard as a laughing third person of course.

Originally posted by tro44_1

Originally posted by Garvon3

Originally posted by tro44_1

Originally posted by Garvon3

Originally posted by camp11111

Originally posted by arcdevil

[Mod Edit] 

1) WAR was on the edge of being a BG only game

it would have died within 6 months. It was terrible, it was tedious. it was horrible, it was boring. and whats even more important, it was a huge step back from DAOC, the game that provided most of their playerbase.

thanks to the "forum whiners" they reworked the game to add keeps and ORvR, because at first they never intended to do so. sadly they just did the least work possible and the game ended having tons of performance problems ,endless bugs and glitches, and terrible career balances (they balanced the game for 12v12 encounters, not for 250v250)

 

2) the most common post during the beta phase was "oh my god what have you done, this looks like a complete wow clone "

posted hundreds of times, but only once per person, since those who posted such were promptly banned. They didnt want negative feedback

 

 

the outcome? Mythic blowed the biggest MMO budget in history with a crap of cataclysmic dimensions and the game is rightfully about to die. and the "forum whiners" told them this 1 year before release, but they didnt want to hear.

 

 

 

I couldn't have said it any better !

And your RvR system "tx to us forum posters " (the blue) ...

Did it work ? .... nope.

because they listened to the WOW haters...

Better example than I ever could post really.

Cross server battlegrounds were "bad" because it was in WOW, so it couldn't be done! you can't accept an idea from WOW as a WOW hater.

Sad really.

because in the end: ... you need to have the people to have PvP.

WOW hate took over from sound logic of how to group up with people who want to have a fight... War would never had server population problems with cross server PvP tools and RvR attached to it.

 

 

 

I wonder if he's just being sarcastic or he actually thinks that poster is agreeing with him... 

At the end of the day, the truth remains the same. WAR failed because its core fans didn't like it, because Mythic catered to WoW fans and didn't build on their previous success. No cross server battlegrounds would have saved a bad battleground system. If the battlegrounds were designed like the ones in DAoC, they weren't have even had tiers, but why do I bother, you just ignore all other points and scream "you just hate WoW cause its popular, you're old, get with the times!". 

 

LOL

They added all that cause WoW haters complained about Travel time in WoW. I directly remember my thread on that subject.

So in the end, you got the load screen tier zones. 

Do the WoW Hater Dance with me

 

No self respecting Dark Age of Camelot player would complain about travel times, considering travel time was an important factor of RvR in DAoC. And WoW travel time? What travel time? WoW is a small world connected by teleports, hardly much travel time at all compared to DAoC. I think you're confusing your factions. 

AGAIN THEY LISTENED TO WOW HATER!!!!
 

Its on the OP. Read it.

This has been something WoW Haters have complained about. Go look up early Warhammer threads on War Alliance, and Guild Wars forum for examples of this behavior.

GO LOOK

Something you need to understand. 

Just because someone complained against long travel times, they're... somehow.. a WoW hater? Even though most games have longer travel times than WoW? You are very confused.

As for people not wanting ANY WoW mechanics in games...and how WoW already has the popular ones... 

There's a big difference between incorporating standard RPG mechanics, and having a deep and interesting gameplay system, and taking the WoW approach to SIMPLE SIMPLE SHALLOW game mechanics aimed at the ADD crowd. 

Originally posted by camp11111

... extreme boring and long grinds, etc...

Anyone who has done the Wintersaber grind in WoW will disagree with you about lack of long grinds in that game.

Originally posted by camp11111

It's all very logical.

The players that hate WOW want another kind of game and don't accept WOW mechanics in their games (like the cross server Bg's in WAR).

The problem is ... most of the attractive and succesful formulas are ... already in Blizzard's game.

 

So now you have two options: or stay with your own tuned ideas (and being shot by the haters) or go for some strange niche fields which actually represent mostly non succesful ideas (not even talking of bad ideas).

Like full loot, very hard death penalties, extreme boring and long grinds, etc...

So in a way the posts in this thread are very clear to me.

WOW hate is hampering the industry.

With Blizzard as a laughing third person of course.

I can already feel the hate for when Cataclysm is released, i just know that they will run it down and hate the fact that once again, Blizzard will breath yet more life into WoW .. so busy are they in hating stuff that they forget that there is one reason, just one, why WoW is more popular than whatever their playing, its because its FUN... and im not even a hardcore WoW player, only a casual one!  so, cross server dungeons and battlegrounds, love it.. i dont have to wait to have fun

Originally posted by Holgranth

Originally posted by DrunkWolf

everything i cant stand in a MMO is in WoW, infact the whole game is based on these things and thats why i hate it. i will stick with my old school MMO that was made in 1999 and is still more advanced then WoW will ever be. the only thing it lacks is shiny graphics that todays kids need or else they dont like the game.

WoW is total garbage period its to easy of a game and holds your hand threwout game play, any dumbass can play it.

but let me say this, im glad WoW is here and im glad millions of people play it, keeps alot of the idiots out there out of the game i like.

 

Without starting a flame war I'm guessing your an EQ player? Out of curiosity what do you find "hard" about EQ because to me it just reeked of "timesink" which is not "hard" in my opinion just "boring" and "grindy".

Yeah, because WoW doesn't have a billion "Collect 50 of X" "Kill 25 of X" type quests in it at all. Those aren't grinds, no sir.

It took longer than a month to get to level cap, you had to THINK and use strategy in order to not die because it actually had consequences, unlike WoW. Sure, it was frustrating and had a bunch of downtime to organize huge raids in EQ, but at least it could be done, and done successfully...and also took more planning and strategy rather than the Leroying in that usually happened in WoW. (Not sure about now...I'm betting they have even dumbed that down for the rat race masses.

There are plenty of things I don't miss about original EQ, but no matter what any WoW addict says, it took much more to be good in it than it ever has or ever will in WoW's paint by numbers game.

And yes, I played WoW from release up until just before WotLK, so this isn't just a flame on WoW. I didn't hate the game as much as I hated the foul community it spawned. But I am just sick to death of the same BS being spewed constantly. So much WoW c&$@ sucking goes on here it's ridiculous.

It's just a glorified console RPG under the guise of an MMO.

Originally posted by Phry

Originally posted by camp11111

It's all very logical.

The players that hate WOW want another kind of game and don't accept WOW mechanics in their games (like the cross server Bg's in WAR).

The problem is ... most of the attractive and succesful formulas are ... already in Blizzard's game.

 

So now you have two options: or stay with your own tuned ideas (and being shot by the haters) or go for some strange niche fields which actually represent mostly non succesful ideas (not even talking of bad ideas).

Like full loot, very hard death penalties, extreme boring and long grinds, etc...

So in a way the posts in this thread are very clear to me.

WOW hate is hampering the industry.

With Blizzard as a laughing third person of course.

 

I can already feel the hate for when Cataclysm is released, i just know that they will run it down and hate the fact that once again, Blizzard will breath yet more life into WoW .. so busy are they in hating stuff that they forget that there is one reason, just one, why WoW is more popular than whatever their playing, its because its amazingly simple, never takes risks, and has a million dollar ad campaign. 

Fixed it for you.

Originally posted by Garvon3

Originally posted by tro44_1

Originally posted by Garvon3

Originally posted by tro44_1

Originally posted by Garvon3

Originally posted by camp11111

Originally posted by arcdevil

[Mod Edit] 

1) WAR was on the edge of being a BG only game

it would have died within 6 months. It was terrible, it was tedious. it was horrible, it was boring. and whats even more important, it was a huge step back from DAOC, the game that provided most of their playerbase.

thanks to the "forum whiners" they reworked the game to add keeps and ORvR, because at first they never intended to do so. sadly they just did the least work possible and the game ended having tons of performance problems ,endless bugs and glitches, and terrible career balances (they balanced the game for 12v12 encounters, not for 250v250)

 

2) the most common post during the beta phase was "oh my god what have you done, this looks like a complete wow clone "

posted hundreds of times, but only once per person, since those who posted such were promptly banned. They didnt want negative feedback

 

 

the outcome? Mythic blowed the biggest MMO budget in history with a crap of cataclysmic dimensions and the game is rightfully about to die. and the "forum whiners" told them this 1 year before release, but they didnt want to hear.

 

 

 

I couldn't have said it any better !

And your RvR system "tx to us forum posters " (the blue) ...

Did it work ? .... nope.

because they listened to the WOW haters...

Better example than I ever could post really.

Cross server battlegrounds were "bad" because it was in WOW, so it couldn't be done! you can't accept an idea from WOW as a WOW hater.

Sad really.

because in the end: ... you need to have the people to have PvP.

WOW hate took over from sound logic of how to group up with people who want to have a fight... War would never had server population problems with cross server PvP tools and RvR attached to it.

 

 

 

I wonder if he's just being sarcastic or he actually thinks that poster is agreeing with him... 

At the end of the day, the truth remains the same. WAR failed because its core fans didn't like it, because Mythic catered to WoW fans and didn't build on their previous success. No cross server battlegrounds would have saved a bad battleground system. If the battlegrounds were designed like the ones in DAoC, they weren't have even had tiers, but why do I bother, you just ignore all other points and scream "you just hate WoW cause its popular, you're old, get with the times!". 

 

LOL

They added all that cause WoW haters complained about Travel time in WoW. I directly remember my thread on that subject.

So in the end, you got the load screen tier zones. 

Do the WoW Hater Dance with me

 

No self respecting Dark Age of Camelot player would complain about travel times, considering travel time was an important factor of RvR in DAoC. And WoW travel time? What travel time? WoW is a small world connected by teleports, hardly much travel time at all compared to DAoC. I think you're confusing your factions. 

AGAIN THEY LISTENED TO WOW HATER!!!!
 

Its on the OP. Read it.

This has been something WoW Haters have complained about. Go look up early Warhammer threads on War Alliance, and Guild Wars forum for examples of this behavior.

GO LOOK

Something you need to understand. 

Just because someone complained against long travel times, they're... somehow.. a WoW hater? Even though most games have longer travel times than WoW? You are very confused.

 

As for people not wanting ANY WoW mechanics in games...and how WoW already has the popular ones... 

There's a big difference between incorporating standard RPG mechanics, and having a deep and interesting gameplay system, and taking the WoW approach to SIMPLE SIMPLE SHALLOW game mechanics aimed at the ADD crowd. 

WoW hater ignore that fact, thinking that WoW invented Everything thats in its game.

So in the end,,,

THEY ARE GOING TO HATE IT BECAUSE ITS IN WOW, and for that reason alone at times.

How I know?

WELL BECAUSE THE POSTERS SAID IT THEMSELF!!!!

Check out some of the old WarhammerAlliance threads.  EVEN THE CURRUPTED MODs ON THAT FORUM ARE WOW HATERS.

Also Check out Guild Wars forums and Guild Wars 2 forums. They the same thing AGAIN Hating the idea large traveled World because of WoW's Travle Time.

They Complained, and Developer gave them the Instant Tier Load Screen zone system to appel to the WoW Haters. IT FLOPED!!!!!

[Mod Edit]

You really went off the deep end there, Tro44. There is no basis in fact for what you said about GW, travel times, and WoW.

Originally posted by Garvon3

Originally posted by Phry

Originally posted by camp11111

It's all very logical.

The players that hate WOW want another kind of game and don't accept WOW mechanics in their games (like the cross server Bg's in WAR).

The problem is ... most of the attractive and succesful formulas are ... already in Blizzard's game.

 

So now you have two options: or stay with your own tuned ideas (and being shot by the haters) or go for some strange niche fields which actually represent mostly non succesful ideas (not even talking of bad ideas).

Like full loot, very hard death penalties, extreme boring and long grinds, etc...

So in a way the posts in this thread are very clear to me.

WOW hate is hampering the industry.

With Blizzard as a laughing third person of course.

 

I can already feel the hate for when Cataclysm is released, i just know that they will run it down and hate the fact that once again, Blizzard will breath yet more life into WoW .. so busy are they in hating stuff that they forget that there is one reason, just one, why WoW is more popular than whatever their playing, its because its amazingly simple, never takes risks, and has a million dollar ad campaign. 

Fixed it for you.

I'll restore the previous sentence in its original form (without your red editing):

"its because its FUN... and im not even a hardcore WoW player, only a casual one! so, cross server dungeons and battlegrounds, love it.. i dont have to wait to have fun ..."

I find it not very polite to find the need to edit someone's writings to gain an argument against him.

Actually the italics show what this thread is all about: fun mechanics and why WOW haters don't accept them because they are simply in WOW.

How can the industry even advance if you counter even mechanics... or edit posts which don't fall in your theory.

Originally posted by Goatgod76

Originally posted by Holgranth

Originally posted by DrunkWolf

everything i cant stand in a MMO is in WoW, infact the whole game is based on these things and thats why i hate it. i will stick with my old school MMO that was made in 1999 and is still more advanced then WoW will ever be. the only thing it lacks is shiny graphics that todays kids need or else they dont like the game.

WoW is total garbage period its to easy of a game and holds your hand threwout game play, any dumbass can play it.

but let me say this, im glad WoW is here and im glad millions of people play it, keeps alot of the idiots out there out of the game i like.

 

Without starting a flame war I'm guessing your an EQ player? Out of curiosity what do you find "hard" about EQ because to me it just reeked of "timesink" which is not "hard" in my opinion just "boring" and "grindy".

 

Yeah, because WoW doesn't have a billion "Collect 50 of X" "Kill 25 of X" type quests in it at all. Those aren't grinds, no sir.

It took longer than a month to get to level cap, you had to THINK and use strategy in order to not die because it actually had consequences, unlike WoW. Sure, it was frustrating and had a bunch of downtime to organize huge raids in EQ, but at least it could be done, and done successfully...and also took more planning and strategy rather than the Leroying in that usually happened in WoW. (Not sure about now...I'm betting they have even dumbed that down for the rat race masses.

There are plenty of things I don't miss about original EQ, but no matter what any WoW addict says, it took much more to be good in it than it ever has or ever will in WoW's paint by numbers game.

And yes, I played WoW from release up until just before WotLK, so this isn't just a flame on WoW. I didn't hate the game as much as I hated the foul community it spawned. But I am just sick to death of the same BS being spewed constantly. So much WoW c&$@ sucking goes on here it's ridiculous.

 

It's just a glorified console RPG under the guise of an MMO.

LOL YOU STILL DONT GET IT!!

you claim to be a Vet player. You sould be on our side in the cause.

WHY?

Because WoW steals from Vet games as well. And as long as WoW haters communitys complain about similar WoW features, then KISS THE STUFF THAT MADE GAMES LIKE EVERQUEST GOODBYE!!!

Read the OP.

Kiss Large Scale PvE goodbye cause Mr WoW hater hate Raiding  (CANT SAY YOU NEVER SEEN COMMENTS LIKE THIS)

Kiss Large Open Zones GOODBYE (Warhammer and Guild Wars 2 for examples of this. WoW haters complained about Travel time in WoW, so developers are starting to use Load Screen Zones and Tiers instead of Open World zones)