Originally posted by camp11111

Originally posted by arcdevil

[Mod Edit] 

1) WAR was on the edge of being a BG only game

it would have died within 6 months. It was terrible, it was tedious. it was horrible, it was boring. and whats even more important, it was a huge step back from DAOC, the game that provided most of their playerbase.

thanks to the "forum whiners" they reworked the game to add keeps and ORvR, because at first they never intended to do so. sadly they just did the least work possible and the game ended having tons of performance problems ,endless bugs and glitches, and terrible career balances (they balanced the game for 12v12 encounters, not for 250v250)

 

2) the most common post during the beta phase was "oh my god what have you done, this looks like a complete wow clone "

posted hundreds of times, but only once per person, since those who posted such were promptly banned. They didnt want negative feedback

 

 

the outcome? Mythic blowed the biggest MMO budget in history with a crap of cataclysmic dimensions and the game is rightfully about to die. and the "forum whiners" told them this 1 year before release, but they didnt want to hear.

 

 

 

I couldn't have said it any better !

And your RvR system "tx to us forum posters " (the blue) ...

Did it work ? .... nope.

because they listened to the WOW haters...

Better example than I ever could post really.

Cross server battlegrounds were "bad" because it was in WOW, so it couldn't be done! you can't accept an idea from WOW as a WOW hater.

Sad really.

because in the end: ... you need to have the people to have PvP.

WOW hate took over from sound logic of how to group up with people who want to have a fight... War would never had server population problems with cross server PvP tools and RvR attached to it.

 

 

 

Originally posted by uquipu

Originally posted by Garvon3

Er, no. People shout "Go back to WoW" usually when some new player whines about game mechanics not being simple or easy, or too complicated for them to understand, or whine about something not being exactly like WoW.

Since WoW is the epitome of simple and easy, people say "Go back to WoW" because thats likely where the player came from. There aren't many games are the market as dumbed down as WoW. 

People never said "Go back to EverQuest" when it was on the top of the market. Granted, the MMORPG industry wasn't dead then like it is now. 

 

Chess is simple enough for a child to play and complex enough that it can never be fully mastered.

WoW is like chess in that regard.

 Please dont compare chess to WoW.   Chess is a venerable game that has massive amounts of complexity.   The classification of pieces serves to add to that complexity, not offer simplification on the board.  WoW is in every respect the opposite of Chess.   Show some respect. :-)

Originally posted by Garvon3

Originally posted by uquipu

Originally posted by Garvon3

Er, no. People shout "Go back to WoW" usually when some new player whines about game mechanics not being simple or easy, or too complicated for them to understand, or whine about something not being exactly like WoW.

Since WoW is the epitome of simple and easy, people say "Go back to WoW" because thats likely where the player came from. There aren't many games are the market as dumbed down as WoW. 

People never said "Go back to EverQuest" when it was on the top of the market. Granted, the MMORPG industry wasn't dead then like it is now. 

 

Chess is simple enough for a child to play and complex enough that it can never be fully mastered.

WoW is like chess in that regard.

We're not talking about the combat (even WoW's limited combat and class specialization system) we're talking about the game as a whole, how its made as simple and easy as possible, as to never dissaude anyone from unsubscribing. From the instancing, to the linear zone progression, to the generic quests marked out on your mini map, lack of any kind of death penalty, the instant travel, dungeon finder, its all made to be as simple and easy as possible with no real game mechanic depth. 

And I think most people coming from old MMOs here would have to laugh at the WoW chess comparison. 

You can level a rogue from 1 to 80 in WoW by spamming your sinister strike key over and over.  That's one key.

But you'll get to 80 quicker buy using all of your skills, backstab, stealth, gouge and so on.

WoW is as hard as you want it to be.  Don't do green quests.  Don't do yellow quest.  Just do orange and red quests and it will take you five minutes to kill one mob.

WoW starts at 80. 

If you don't know the end game content before hand it is hard.  Don't research it on youtube or any of the dozens of strategy sites.

Do heroics on hard for a challenge.  Don't allow epic armor or weapons in your guild, use blues or lower.

It's as hard as you want.

Old school MMOs weren't hard, they were tedious, like knitting a sweater.

Originally posted by Garvon3

We're not talking about the combat (even WoW's limited combat and class specialization system) we're talking about the game as a whole, how its made as simple and easy as possible, as to never dissaude anyone from unsubscribing. From the instancing, to the linear zone progression, to the generic quests marked out on your mini map, lack of any kind of death penalty, the instant travel, dungeon finder, its all made to be as simple and easy as possible with no real game mechanic depth.

I think you're confusing "bothersome" with "difficult" or at least, not recognizing the value of avoiding useless things that dissuade people from continuing to subscribe.

Death penalties that just make you sit around for example, or lenghty travel with no real content.   If you can find ways to make them interesting, that's one thing, but...I'd like to hear how you're doing it.

Otherwise, I'll subscribe to the philosophy of...I'd rather see a cut scene between departure and arrival than every single moment of the trip.   Either something interesting happens in the scene or it doesn't.

Probably why I stopped playing with the DM who insisted on rolling encounters for every day of a journey.