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News & Features Discussion  » Pirates of the Burning Sea: Looking at the Early Game

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43 posts found
  Strands

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/12/09
Posts: 26

3/06/10 6:14:03 AM#21

Was in the Beta for this game way back.  Nice community, and really helpful gm's, I didn't get hooked, but some people did. One thing I will say, it was definitely Piratey!! Yarr!! 

Riptonius Xfire Miniprofile
  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12405

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

3/06/10 9:05:38 AM#22
Originally posted by ericbelser

Yep...an "introduction" piece on a game that has been out how long? Please.

 

One of the big issues with MMOs is that they rarely get reviewed again once the game grows and matures. The advantage of returning a year or even several years later is it give s a fresh look at what the game currently is, after countless patches, fixes and content additions. It gives a person who is presently interested in the game a better idea of what the game is and does than a review that was done at release. Not everyone is like you, Eric. Many people haven't played every MMO out there and aren't familiar with the gameplay and mechanics of each and every MMO, especially when it comes to games that deviate from the standard swords, spells and elves theme.

Can you explain why you feel this article - or any re-review for that matter - is a bad idea?

 

Personally, I think there's quite a few games that could use both introduction and re-review:

- World of Warcraft (what one knew about WOW in 2004 is different from what it is now)

- Everquest 2

- EVE Online

- Dark Age of Camelot

- Entropia Universe

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  erictlewis

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/08/08
Posts: 3059

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results.

3/06/10 9:34:35 AM#23
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by ericbelser

Yep...an "introduction" piece on a game that has been out how long? Please.

 

One of the big issues with MMOs is that they rarely get reviewed again once the game grows and matures. The advantage of returning a year or even several years later is it give s a fresh look at what the game currently is, after countless patches, fixes and content additions. It gives a person who is presently interested in the game a better idea of what the game is and does than a review that was done at release. Not everyone is like you, Eric. Many people haven't played every MMO out there and aren't familiar with the gameplay and mechanics of each and every MMO, especially when it comes to games that deviate from the standard swords, spells and elves theme.

Can you explain why you feel this article - or any re-review for that matter - is a bad idea?

 

Personally, I think there's quite a few games that could use both introduction and re-review:

- World of Warcraft (what one knew about WOW in 2004 is different from what it is now)

- Everquest 2

- EVE Online

- Dark Age of Camelot

- Entropia Universe

 


 

YOu have me on that,   I think most folks have an idea of what wow is about that one does not need a review.

Eve probably does they have gone over a lot of changes, im still not going back 2 years I have been eve free and not interested.

DAOC, rofl it probably needs a re-review I tried it a long time ago and there is a reason why I don't play games made by that company nowdays, Entropia never heard of that one so a review might be needed, EQ2 Im currently playing  it, it is sure not the same game as it was years ago.

However I would like to add this as a caviot,  most folks try a game and they fall into 3 catagories. (1) love the game,  (2) take it or leave it, (3) have downright distain for it.   I think most fall into the first 2 catagories.   For me I fall into either catagory one or 3.  If I hate your game from the start there are reasons why, and it would take a who lot of changes to even get me to look at your new updates, and a free trial if you really want to wrangle me in.

But lets call the article what it is, it should have been called a re-visit.

 

  compass72

Novice Member

Joined: 3/06/10
Posts: 1

3/06/10 9:55:34 AM#24

As someone who has been playing PoTBS since pre-board back in January of 2008, I can tell you there have been some significant changes to the game. You don't realize it until you look back at some of the early reviews and think: 'Oh yeah, I remember that. That was a royal pain. Thank goodness they changed that.'

The game will always have a steep learning curve for new players but thankfully there are more resources open to new players than before. There is a better bank of veteran players to help the newbies along. The tutorials are scaled better and broken up into sections rather than have one, long tutorial trying to throw everything at you all at once.

Leveling is easier than before because there are more missions available at every level to ensure you don't stall out and starve for XP at a certain stage.

The auction houses are filled with a better selection of goods and materials ever since they doubled the labor you get out of your structure slots.

Doubloons are easier to obtain with daily missions available, changes to the loot tables, and as mentioned before...more missions.

There have been new ship types, which keep the game dynamic fresh.

The game will always shine in the port battle / RvR realm, which in my opinion is the game's finest feature. 24 vs 24 for control of a port, and its resources.

As a synopsis: If you are on the open sea, and close to an enemy-controlled port, you can start sinking NPC vessels belonging to that faction and start to generate economic unrest on the port. You and 3 other friends can also flag yourself for PvP and generate the same contention by just sitting around the port (a new feature called 'blockading'). This blockading was developed in response to player requests that felt some NPC spawns were not sufficient enough to flip a port.

After 3000 contention points, the port enters a PvP state where players can attack other players within a certain radius of the port (marked by a red circle on the area map). After 5000, a second, larger PvP bubble is generated, making it almost impossible to generate or counter the unrest without entering the PvP zone and risking your ship. These levels of 3000 and 5000 were reduced from their previous levels of 5000 and 7000. It's easier to generate PvP bubbles now. It's harder to counter contention without risking your ship.

If the port reaches 10,000 contention points it enters a state of unrest where control of the port is decided by a port battle, scheduled 2 days later, consisting of as many as 48 players. The battle can last as long as 2 1/2 hours and can be accomplished by sinking every enemy ship or destroying the town defense gun, landing at the town and attacking the defending NPC garrison, along with the defending players.

If one faction gains control of the majority of ports on the map, that faction is declared the winner, a cease-fire is declared and then the map and all ports revert back to their original owners.

I have never seen an MMO with a more sophisticated set of RvR rules before or since. Even after 2+ years of playing, the game is still a lot of fun and I look forward to logging on and taking to the seas when I can.

I know there are free trials of the game floating around somewhere, so if you want to know more, just send me a message and I'll see what information I can find on the matter.
 

  Piratemart

Novice Member

Joined: 3/06/10
Posts: 2

3/06/10 10:30:26 AM#25

Your review is valid as a first impression, and one that is made by a user that does not read all the prompts and documentation presented to them in game while they are playing. Some parts of this game *do* require more documentation, but assuming that all MMOs use the same approach to controls is a bit simplistic. As for help, there are two years of forum discussion over every aspect of the game to search, a player supported wiki (potbs.wikia.com) and many useful guides provided by FLS and players.

That being said, this particular game does a good job of balancing many different approaches players may have to MMOs. There is a vast array of PvE quests/missions (over 6200) about 15% of which are for groups. There are several long chains of missions with historically referenced context that are a joy to the Role Playing user. There is plenty of opportunity for social networking with the 'team' aspects of the RvR and PvP in the game. Port Battles, part of the cyclical struggle for map dominance, involve 24 vs 24 group battles. Few MMOs provide a venue for such a large group of players to work together. Along the way to map domination many PvP zones are created where the battle skills of players are tested with suitable reward.

The economy is broad, one can turn a doubloon making almost anything in game if one takes the time to research where the demand for the goods are (there are over 57 possible locations to buy or sell goods). Each account is limited to 10 different structures, which means the player must choose to work with others or buy more accounts to complete the more complex items in the game. Yes, it could be expanded to include other items, but even as it is, it provides hours of enjoyment playing the market.

Some players may approach the game, as they do many other MMOs, trying to level as quickly as possible. They will find several paths to accomplishing this, but will find their experience lacking the skills needed to compete at the higher levels. To 'win' in this game takes skills in economics, group tactics, PvP tactics, leadership, patience and lots of practice doing each. You will not receive 'instant gratification' when playing this game, but for those who devote their play time to studying the various aspects of the game, the rewards are worth the effort to reach them. Few things of value in life are achieved without a struggle, so too with conquest of The Burning Sea.

 

  Ragemaster

Novice Member

Joined: 2/19/04
Posts: 133

3/06/10 10:38:08 AM#26

Id just like to point out all the inccurate and general mis information that people are pointing out in this thread.  I keep hearing that people played it in beta, and <fill in stuff that was true 2 years ago here>

 

Games progressed ALOT , over the last few years. Im glad massivley is doing a re review of it ,and hopefully will spend enough time to get to the good and not so good parts of the game.

 

I just resubbed a few days ago, to have a secondary mmorpg  to play (eve my main) and liking it so far.

My highest char is 35 Cutthroat, lowest is a 16 buccaneer (working on the buc, atm)

 

Some major systems have been changed/introduced since POTBS first came out.

http://www.burningsea.com/page/community/new     wont comment on them yet, as im still relearning the game.

 

A few things id like to point out , about POTBS in general... First, its not a tactical naval game, yes there is strategy in battles pvp and pve, BUT dont expect an accurate portrayal of naval combat as it was in age of discovery. This game feels like an odd sort of mix up between eve online, world of warcraft, and dark age of camelot.

LIKE EVE, this game has a player drivin economy. From your cannon ammunition to your ship itself, NOTHING is permenent, save your Avatar gear and Level. You run out of ammo? buy more. Use all your consumables? Buy more. Lose your ship? Buy a new one! Its what we call supply and demand.

LIKE WOW, this game has a level system, where most of the games goodness  is at the top, AKA endgame. Like wow, there is solo missions (quest instances basicly) all the way to 50.

LIKE Dark age of camelot, this games endgame is mostly based around an epic ongoing realm war. FLS calls it nation vs nation but its esnetially the same thing! Three nations, French, Britain, and Spain, are in an ongoing struggle to control the carribean. These three nations will fight over ports and the resources that lie within. Instead of epic castle sieges, in pirates you have epic port battles. I left  out the pirate facttion,  due to the fact that their goal isnt to take territory, but rather, to just gank everything and disrupt the nationals from completing their goals. Pirates lack (by design) reliable access to ship of the lines, which are the most used ship in port battles. Pirates also do not hold onto the lands they capture, they just plunder it for gold, woman and other valuables and then leave, kind of like Vikings.

Also, FLS, FLYING LAB STUDIOS, is an indie developer, whoever said its a SOE game needs to get a clue. SOE just handles their billing. Smedley, much as he wants, wont be able to fuck up this game with poor management dicision.

The thing that I like about FLS, and other indie developers like CCP, is that they actully listen to and communicate with the players. They post on forums, they write devblogs, they give us, the players, INSIDE information about what is going on. They ask for feedback, and actully develop based on feedback. Unlike some companies, that are higher than thou (LOOKING AT YOU, SONY, BLIZZARD, FUNCOM) that do whatever the fuck they want, and disregard the players because, us devs know what YOU players want most!!

 

Looking at the past development track record of this game, and the planned future milestone as well as the new expansion thats in development,, its easy to see that FLS is commited to making its game even better, and will continue to do so. Their not here to make a quick buck and bail. This is their baby and their making it grow.

ragemaster9999 Xfire Miniprofile
  User Deleted
3/06/10 11:39:30 AM#27
Originally posted by Ragemaster

 

Looking at the past development track record of this game, and the planned future milestone as well as the new expansion thats in development,, its easy to see that FLS is commited to making its game even better, and will continue to do so. Their not here to make a quick buck and bail. This is their baby and their making it grow.


Why don't you tell people how long it took to get stuff like blockading into the game from when it was suggested... FLS has been slow to enact changes people have clamoured for, and has introduced changes most players objected to. To this day we're still missing features that were supposed to be in at release while they've spent their time on pointless changes and changes that have had to be cancelled after the devs came to recognize that the players were right.

 

FLS has handled the game very badly. And for all their friendly banter on their forums they have proven reluctant to introducing great ideas from their players time and time again. I was back in the game recently for the free month, and any changes since I quit (or since beta for that matter) have been entirely cosmetic. All the major flaws are still there, still ignored by FLS in spite of many suggestions from their players.

 

If FLS is making their baby grow then why the recent server mergers? And why will their servers soon be underpopulated again?

  Nebless

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/22/08
Posts: 914

3/06/10 9:37:10 PM#28
Originally posted by lowendahl

FLS has been slow to enact changes people have clamoured for, and has introduced changes most players objected to.


 

I've always felt FLS made the game THEY wanted to play and fought tooth and nail to keep it that way, even though the player base didn't.  It was as if they couldn't understand why WE didn't see / like / embrace their vision.  And that came out in some of their early O-board posts; i.e. No crying in the Red Zone.

They did finally accept they needed to change if they wanted to keep their game going and (very belatedly) have been making changes.  Alas it's probably too little, too late which will be sad as it's a fairly fun game when it works and I think the MMO environment will be deminished as a whole if we lose another niche game since there just aren't all that many out there.

Best case scenario - 1 server with both US and EU on it (round the clock action) and a DDO style F2p setup (higher level group quest line, end game ships etc....) / reduced fee's.

Worse case - an empty sea

  PapaB34R

Novice Member

Joined: 11/15/04
Posts: 306

Never lose your way, or someone else might find it

3/07/10 10:27:16 AM#29

Dunno whats worse bout this game, the repetitive combat or the character animations. What I do know is that its shallow and rather dull grinding 60 levels on the same map (although big). Quests are ok, but like the game far too repetitive. So unless your hardcore pirate fan or masochistic this isnt the game for you.

 

edit: besides theres one mmo almost as good/worse with equal setting called bounty bay online http://www.bountybayonline.com/en/freetoplay/index.html which is f2p

  Gyrus

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/20/07
Posts: 2324

3/07/10 11:02:29 AM#30
Originally posted by PapaB34R

Dunno whats worse bout this game, the repetitive combat or the character animations. What I do know is that its shallow and rather dull grinding 60 levels on the same map (although big). ...

As a matter of fact PotBS is one of the smallest MMO worlds out there.

I have compared it to other games - look in my post history for threads on World Size etc.  I would link for you but it's late.

Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.

  markus2004

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/10
Posts: 44

3/07/10 11:17:14 AM#31

Ive got some questions .. are there still anyone playing??

can u pvp the whole time or do u need to say yes?

 

is the visuals good?

  Spiritof55

Novice Member

Joined: 4/26/05
Posts: 414

3/07/10 11:18:48 AM#32
Originally posted by ericbelser

Yep...an "introduction" piece on a game that has been out how long? Please.


 

Hes just upset because he was owned.

 

  markus2004

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/10
Posts: 44

3/07/10 11:22:51 AM#33

and it is the ship battles realistic? like in total war

  describable

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/10/09
Posts: 407

3/07/10 12:03:12 PM#34

*yawn* took him a LONG time to get into it...

personally the game went downhill for me just after preboarding, with the eco bombing by the spanish which ruined the first campaign.... the amount of bugs and the devs defiantly telling us "we were wrong", then they fixed it 4 times and still said "there was no problem".

meh.. cancelled. don't regret it.

Avatar combat was tagged on, and ship combat gets dull after a while, of course i played it when half the missions were bugged and i spent hours filling in bug reports. oh joys...

economy was broken (hell you could really use your characters to your advantage and just repeat the first missions over and over to get a generious supply of selling salts and sell those).... i hear they fixed many of the glaring bugs.. but i wouldn't rejoin.

was more expensive at one point than WoW or Lotro .... pffft nah, i had planned at one point to use this and EQ2 on the SOE MMO plan but sony screwed up my EQ2 account.. so yeah...

Get STO rather than this.... at least that'll eventually improve.. this died last year (when most of the servers were sliced).

 

another good one ruined...

"nothing actually matters, we're just slightly evolved monkeys clinging to a dying piece of rock hurtling through space waiting for our eventual death." - Frankie Boyle, Mock The Week

  Nebless

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/22/08
Posts: 914

3/07/10 12:53:28 PM#35
Originally posted by markus2004

Ive got some questions .. are there still anyone playing??

can u pvp the whole time or do u need to say yes?

 is the visuals good?

and it is the ship battles realistic? like in total war

1. Yes they are.  Currently there are 2 servers; 1 US and 1 EUropean).  Before this last server merge I found the EU one to be more populated.  I'm willing to say that the game is more popular in Europe than here.

2. You can Pvp the entire time by either having your Pvp flag active (which lets you fight in the open ocean) or most just stay in the Red Zone's (contention area's around the ports that are under attack).  Either way it would be just like Open World Pvp - no asking necessary.  They also have a duel feature.  You also can participate in Port Battles.  Once a ports contention numbers reach X a countdown goes into effect for a large scale battle for control of the port.  Port control is what determines who wins the map.  These battles are 24 vs 24 battles and will be where you see the big ships come out to play.

3.  Maxed out; yes the visuals are very good.  Eye candy for the most part but combined with the music it makes for a lovely experience.

4.  Never played total war so I'm not sure there, but at the base level tactics do come into play.  What type of ammo you wish to use (vs rigging, armor or crew), ship placement (upwind to attack or be harder to catch - downwind to run away), board - broadside or go for the weaker bow or stern in manuvering etc....  Where it gets away from that is the standard MMO heals, buffs and debuffs.  The magic spells so many of us have complained about.  Some kind of make sense and others are totally outlandish. 

The combat is good, but it's not a ship simulation.

  triscuit006

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/07/10
Posts: 2

3/07/10 12:56:44 PM#36

I'm seeing a lot of posts from pre-boarding and the first days of PotBS.....if you arent up to date, its like commenting on WoW now when you played in Beta.... it just doesnt apply. 

The servers have been merged to provide a fuller game experience; there are two now, one for US and one for Euro even though anyone can play on either the designation is for port battle time slots.  FLS is also releasing an 'expansion' called Power and Prestige soon... 

The learning curve is steeper than most games around, yes.  The games visuals are better than most games, although the avatar detailing could use some retexturing.  Speaking of avcom, about a year or so ago, it was revamped with an entirely new avcom system.... again, those that played in preboarding have no idea what im talking about here because their information is so out-dated. 

Comparing PotBS to STO?  have you even played them both?  STO and PotBS have very little in common.... the only thing i can think of is the use of the WASD keys, although STO also uses Q and E.  The ship combat in STO is completely different than that of PotBS seeing how the bigger ship wins in STO and the most versatile captain playing to his best advantage has a good chance of winning in a smaller ship in PotBS (hence the "tactical naval combat" part....).  The avcom in STO and PotBS is also beyond comparison.  The most glaring difference is that PotBS is loss based pvp, not a die-respawn-die system used in STO (applies to both STOs avcom and shipcom). 

No crying in the red and such was brought about because people do lose in pvp, whether they meant to pvp or not.... the game warns you when you are sailing into a pvp zone by telling you in your chat window, popping text up in the middle of your screen and giving you a pvp icon by your health UI.....  if you choose to sail in still, you are accepting the risks..... much like driving your car off a bridge, the guard rail and black&yellow signs are there for a reason.

You are not forced to level via missions, although some prefer to level this way.  You can tackle NPCs on the Open Sea and defeat them either by sinking their ship or in boarding combat, this can also be done thru pvp.  There are also fleets on the open sea, which are essentially groups of 8 and 12 ships that drop much better loot than normal ships and are also lvl 65 (level cap is normally 50) to better benefit low level players being powerleveled since xp rewards are given based on the difference in level. 

Simplistic Economy?  I dont know about you, but when building ships (integral part of the economy), I would rather not go and cut down each and every tree needed....the way they come in sets is much easier, although the economy is still quite complex even tho the raw materials part is very simple (hemp yields hemp and oak logging camps yield oak... seems simple enough right?).

All in all, this is a niche game (its no WoW), but the system works and is rewarding for those who work together.... the best part for me is the pvp (i love loss based pvp), if i wanted to kill someone just to watch them respawn 5 seconds later in the same fight, i'd play halo or MW2 (or this and that).  There are new ships being implemented every couple patches.  There are new missions being implemented every couple patches.  This game is constantly growing larger..... oh wai..., its an MMO.  thats what they do.

  adog2k1

Novice Member

Joined: 10/27/09
Posts: 7

Forget the marshmallow

3/07/10 11:27:14 PM#37

I've played off an on for 2 years. It's a great game - skill-based PvP of many flavors, and almost every combination of skill/build/tactic has a counter.

However... a warning for new players. The early game is interesting, the middle game is just a really annoying bridge to level 50, and the game starts over at level 50 when you start PvPing. FLS and players have talked about taking steps to make PvP work for lower levels (skirmish system, maybe shallow-water port battles one day) but for now it's like I said - fun PvE at first, annoying PvE for a while, deep end. Once you know how to swim, it is a great, great game. Just be prepared to spend some time learning. Get in a big society, participate in econ, get on vent, listen to people who have played. We all want more people to come play, so we'll try to help.

P. S. there is high-level PvE. I don't do it, so I can't speak on it, but I hear it has improved. It's important to understand that it(and econ) could be interrupted by RvR/involuntary PvP.

We all got it coming, kid

  User Deleted
3/08/10 4:46:16 AM#38
Originally posted by markus2004

and it is the ship battles realistic? like in total war

 

The ship PvP combat in Potbs is far better than empire total war.

  markus2004

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/10
Posts: 44

3/08/10 9:15:47 AM#39

well it destroyed the game abit for me when i found out that u need to be flagged to do anything pvp:(

  Nebless

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/22/08
Posts: 914

3/08/10 9:41:56 AM#40
Originally posted by markus2004

well it destroyed the game abit for me when i found out that u need to be flagged to do anything pvp:(


 

I may not have explained myself well on this point. 

You do have to be flagged for open ocean combat and can then only attack other flagged players.  That's open ocean only.

The red zones are the contention zones around ports and will have 2 set's of color rings around them.  Outer ring is for the pirates and privateers, inner ring for anyone.  Once you enter either ring you are automaticly set to Pvp.  So say you're a merchant (trader) just taking a load of lumber into a port to sell.  Once you go into the rings you are now a Pvp target without having done a thing on your own except for going into the rings(zone).

If you thought the game was FFA Pvp then no you are correct, you have to be 'flagged' for Pvp.

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