Originally posted by Miles-Prower

Originally posted by Talin

It amazes me the level of unawareness that some individuals display when it comes to PR for a product/company. The outside world's (specifically, the gamers') perspective of a company/game ties in strongly with initial and ongoing perceptions.

Look at WAR - the game did well initially due to the fanbase Mythic and DAOC had built over the years. While I don't think it delivered up to its potential, even many "haters" out there grudgingly note that there has been a re-investment into the quality and content of the game. Whether or not that will be "too little, too late" remains to be seen.

Cryptic made a solid name for themselves with the CoX games, and it payed off well in generating interest for their other games.

Champions Online made a serious PR SNAFU by introducing a game-changing patch at the end of their headstart program. It begs the question, what do the development managers and business leads think about in these scenarios?

Now, take a game that has been introduced to mediocre reviews and (was) relying almost completely on its IP laurels, and introduce a disasterous series of events that alienates both existing and prospective subscribers to the game. That isn't a balance issue, it is a direct hit to one's wallet. I can only hope those responsible have been sacked.

I never expected much out of Atari. Everything they release is a disappointment. They even managed to destroy the beloved Neverwinter Nights series.

Atari has done nothing but emit failure since it entered the console business, and does nothing but exude failure in the software business. Atari should have just gave up long ago. Maybe they could take that money they steal from people and clean up their mess of ET Games in New Mexico.

But I guess their current owner is too busy playing make believe "Swordquest" with his 18k gold jewel-encrusted, pure-silver bladed sword to care anymore.

 

~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!

Ya know I just happen to have one of those ET Games in my closet 

I will point out one thing in their defense.  They offered ( and lived up to their offer) of giving a full refund to everyone that pre-orded ( ie paid for it prior to the offical launch) the lifetime or yearly subsctiption.  i know almost everyone ( that had a lifetime or yearly) in the house I belong to took them up on their offer last week and we all recieved our refunds on friday.

Originally posted by Reizla

I'm wondering about the 1 million accounts STO claims to have. As I said then - and will say again - 1 million accounts is not actual sales. From this stunt I can only conclude that Cryptic/Atari is stunting to get more players into STO to prevent the game to go from fail to epic fail.

Can't think of any other reason to make an offer like this if the game is only 1 month old...

they addmitted way back when that it included champions online accounts  it also included all the pre-order accounts many of which never activated their accounts with a retail key.

Originally posted by Slowdoves

So sad as someone posted on the STO forum, the thread got locked too.

 

 

BBB ratings are not alwasy accurate as to the company.  As an example say someone files a complaint   about a company  claiming that they were charged X dollars instead of B dollars. 1 Now if the the company goes well our records show you were charged B dollars but if you can show up proff you were charged X dollars we will refund the difference.  Now if they customer shockingly does not have a proof say a recipe or a cancelled check or credit card bill  showing they were charged X dollars  the company does not refund their money however  it will show as an issue that was not resolved to the customers satisfaction and count against them.  Also most people do not report to the BBB when a company does something good only the bad.  So the rattign in and of itself is not an accurate rattign of a company you have to actually see how many complaints and what they actually where.

Originally posted by nekollx

Originally posted by Guillermo197

About time you posted it ;)

You forgot to add that ATARI not only suddenly retracted the whole offer yesterday morning.

They also suddenly took in a stance of flat out saying the offer NEVER existed!

All the people that took on the offer. They were charged shipping fee. And the 60 extra days they also didn't get! As the 60 day codes were suddenly removed from their account page as well.

People that tried to call ATARI were hung up on the phone. And people that posted about this on the ATARI forums were instantly banned!

Cryptic however, is doing nothing more then damage control on their part. Wich I cannot blame them for. As their forums were a complete warzone over the weekend and a real mess. So they had to do something.

Not to mention that people now also getting banned on the Cryptic forums as well.

That statement on the Cryptic forums however, has now been altered three times (in the first version they were also saying the +60 days offer never existed)! And is in sheer contrast and conflict with the stance ATARI is taking and still taking at the moment. Meaning, that as of today, ATARI still claims the offer NEVER existed. And customers contacting them are getting ZERO on request!

i even have pictures of it, i facti've ben recording the adventures of the USS Failboat since CO

 

http://s182.photobucket.com/albums/x202/NekoLLX/Cryptic/

 

Here's another kicker

 

We STILL don't have the female Mirror Universe Uniforms promosed with CO Lifetime, they said they are working on it but have no definite date of this item promised /7/ months ago.

 

God i could have a sex change, ger knocked up and deliver a baby before gals get Mirror Universe at this rate

 

you forgot the joined trill for the klingon side as well is not ingame  even though they clarrified that the klingon faction would infact get it and even on launch day  said they were working out why it was not ingame.

Originally posted by Ramonski7

Thanks for the links Nekolix! This is what Curs0r must be referring to:

---

Looking above note the wording in bold. In particular note how it's mentioned that you will get a double bonus. Not triple as others will have you believe. If it were truly 3 months 30 days w/purchase + 60 days in addition, then it would be included in the promo's description no?

Now look at the wording at the bottom: Subscription Required- 30 Day trial included with purchase.

Now please note that this isn't included with the body of the promo description, it's separate from it and follows the game description. Call it laziness on the part of Cryptic but it's part of the website that's normally there anyway. And I can see how some people would mistake this as meaning that ANOTHER 30 days is included making the promo a triple bonus, but it's not.

---

---

Now this screenshot shows what the purchasing screen looked like before (or after) the promo. Note that the same words:

Subscription Required- 30 Day trial included with purchase

is still in there and in the same spot. This tells me that the above screenshot showing the promo description was nothing more than a plug-in. And that the 30 Day trial included statement would be there with or without a promo involved.

 

It also goes to show me that players are reaching for an extra month even when the official promo description states that players will receive double the time they normally would and NOT triple. Make of it as you will but I stand by my original point.

 

Until I get a screenshot of a player that made the actual PURCHASE (which would include a breakdown of the services to be expected) I cannot think that a mere misunderstanding of a promo webpage holds enough weight to warrant a fraud lawsuit.

actually  it proves their point not yours.  It shows the 60 day stime card and also that the game includes 30 days.  that adds up to 90 days.  I would suggest you take a course in contract law if you stil do not understand that.

Originally posted by Lanthir

 

actually  it proves their point not yours.  It shows the 60 day stime card and also that the game includes 30 days.  that adds up to 90 days.  I would suggest you take a course in contract law if you stil do not understand that.

What is it with this Ramonski?

I don't understand why he is so rabidly defending this fraud scandal?? Boggles my mind.

People involved have said time and time again, that when they placed the order in the weekend, they received a retail key, wich gave them 30 days.

And ON TOP of that they received a 60 days bonus code, wich was immediately retracted afterwards and no longer accessable to them the moment ATARI retracted the whole thing and started claiming the whole thing never existed.

So Yes! Yes! People were suppose to get 90 days!  30 days with the retail key and another 60 days with the bonus code.

Jer

The point is they are perfectlly within their rigths to say it was not part of the deal if infact it was published ( the add) by mistake.  They can then retract the offer and remove the adds. They would cliam that as soon as it was brought to their attention they removed them.  Their options to the customers who purhcased under the 'mistaken offer" is to either refund their full purchase price or agree to live up to the agreement for those limited customers only. They woudl win in court as long as the court aggreed that they corrected the add in a timely manner  and dealt with their customers in either of the aformentioned ways.

  Now seeing how just last week they refunded the prepaid lifetimes and yearly sub fees to any who claimed them before the weekend  I would tend to give them the benifit of the doubt that there was an error made.   Is it bad  PR yes. 

Originally posted by JeroKane

Originally posted by Lanthir

 

actually  it proves their point not yours.  It shows the 60 day stime card and also that the game includes 30 days.  that adds up to 90 days.  I would suggest you take a course in contract law if you stil do not understand that.

 

What is it with this Ramonski?

I don't understand why he is so rabidly defending this fraud scandal?? Boggles my mind.

People involved have said time and time again, that when they placed the order in the weekend, they received a retail key, wich gave them 30 days.

And ON TOP of that they received a 60 days bonus code, wich was immediately retracted afterwards and no longer accessable to them the moment ATARI retracted the whole thing and started claiming the whole thing never existed.

So Yes! Yes! People were suppose to get 90 days!  30 days with the retail key and another 60 days with the bonus code.

Jer

actually, i think he either can not undstand the add or  is so invested in his OP that he can not admit he is in error.

Originally posted by Lanthir

The point is they are perfectlly within their rigths to say it was not part of the deal if infact it was published ( the add) by mistake.  They can then retract the offer and remove the adds. They would cliam that as soon as it was brought to their attention they removed them.  Their options to the customers who purhcased under the 'mistaken offer" is to either refund their full purchase price or agree to live up to the agreement for those limited customers only. They woudl win in court as long as the court aggreed that they corrected the add in a timely manner  and dealt with their customers in either of the aformentioned ways.

  Now seeing how just last week they refunded the prepaid lifetimes and yearly sub fees to any who claeed before the weekend  I would tend to give them the benifit of the doubt that there was an error made.   Is it bad  PR yes. 

But in this case it isn't.  I have witnessed myself plenty of add mistakes over the years. Even involved in one myself when working at a store during my student years.

The mistakes were always admitted. People honestly informed. And people affected were either compensated by honoring the original add or refunding them the money.

Now in this case. ATARI just bluntly retracted the add. And immediately took a stance by saying the add NEVER existed. Everyone that mentioned anything related to the original add on their forums were INSTA banned! Any customer that tried to contact them got the phone hung up on them!

The first "damage control" message on Cryptic's STO forums was this:

Hello,

We understand your frustration. While you may have seen or heard about a special that Atari offered as a temporary incentive to order the game through them, it is not a permanent change. In addition, the special being offered does NOT include any extra free game time. It is the same 30 day free trial, but indeed the cost of the game is temporarily $10 cheaper through Atari's website if ordering directly. The special is not going to be available forever or to replace previous subscriptions. If you feel differently about the issue or have further concerns, we encourage you to contact Atari directly at http://www.atari.com/ - they have a community section for open discussion as well. We thank you for your understanding in this manner.

Regards, Cryptic Studios Support

Wich was later that day altered into a different message. And later again, with another disclamer.

So here you have Cryptic doing damage control on their own forums (and an amateuristic and bad one that is, behind the back of their own Parent company ATARI, who still takes it's stance that the offer NEVER existed. Eventho the original add is popping up on all sites all over the internet (hilarious).

As of today, you still see people affected (who aren't banned yet) trying to post on the STO forums asking what to do, as ATARI support isn't willing to help them and keeps them in an endless loophole in the support chain.

 And people that managed to get an answer from ATARI support were told that they should have received a refund email. But they never did. One person I know myself, is waiting for 2 days now for that refund email. Wich I honestly belief just doesn't exist and just another ATARI trick to send you to the locker.

And to add even more fuel to this scandal.  Appearently Cryptic got so many Lifetime refund requests over the weekend, that the management at Cryptic suddenly retracted the refund option that same monday morning. While people still had days left to request a refund! So after monday morning, people suddenly got ZERO on request on their refund request. While they are still within their 30-days!

You do the math on this whole situation.

As seriously. In my whole life, I have never seen this kind of stuff happen before. Not like this.

Jer

Crypic to Atari...

We can't take another hit captain, the ships about to blow!!!

Sorry, couldn't help myself :-)

Originally posted by JeroKane

Originally posted by Lanthir

The point is they are perfectlly within their rigths to say it was not part of the deal if infact it was published ( the add) by mistake.  They can then retract the offer and remove the adds. They would cliam that as soon as it was brought to their attention they removed them.  Their options to the customers who purhcased under the 'mistaken offer" is to either refund their full purchase price or agree to live up to the agreement for those limited customers only. They woudl win in court as long as the court aggreed that they corrected the add in a timely manner  and dealt with their customers in either of the aformentioned ways.

  Now seeing how just last week they refunded the prepaid lifetimes and yearly sub fees to any who claeed before the weekend  I would tend to give them the benifit of the doubt that there was an error made.   Is it bad  PR yes. 

 

But in this case it isn't.  I have witnessed myself plenty of add mistakes over the years. Even involved in one myself when working at a store during my student years.

The mistakes were always admitted. People honestly informed. And people affected were either compensated by honoring the original add or refunding them the money.

Now in this case. ATARI just bluntly retracted the add. And immediately took a stance by saying the add NEVER existed. Everyone that mentioned anything related to the original add on their forums were INSTA banned! Any customer that tried to contact them got the phone hung up on them!

The first "damage control" message on Cryptic's STO forums was this:

Hello,

We understand your frustration. While you may have seen or heard about a special that Atari offered as a temporary incentive to order the game through them, it is not a permanent change. In addition, the special being offered does NOT include any extra free game time. It is the same 30 day free trial, but indeed the cost of the game is temporarily $10 cheaper through Atari's website if ordering directly. The special is not going to be available forever or to replace previous subscriptions. If you feel differently about the issue or have further concerns, we encourage you to contact Atari directly at http://www.atari.com/ - they have a community section for open discussion as well. We thank you for your understanding in this manner.

Regards, Cryptic Studios Support

Wich was later that day altered into a different message. And later again, with another disclamer.

So here you have Cryptic doing damage control on their own forums (and an amateuristic and bad one that is, behind the back of their own Parent company ATARI, who still takes it's stance that the offer NEVER existed. Eventho the original add is popping up on all sites all over the internet (hilarious).

As of today, you still see people affected (who aren't banned yet) trying to post on the STO forums asking what to do, as ATARI support isn't willing to help them and keeps them in an endless loophole in the support chain.

 And people that managed to get an answer from ATARI support were told that they should have received a refund email. But they never did. One person I know myself, is waiting for 2 days now for that refund email. Wich I honestly belief just doesn't exist and just another ATARI trick to send you to the locker.

And to add even more fuel to this scandal.  Appearently Cryptic got so many Lifetime refund requests over the weekend, that the management at Cryptic suddenly retracted the refund option that same monday morning. While people still had days left to request a refund! So after monday morning, people suddenly got ZERO on request on their refund request. While they are still within their 30-days!

You do the math on this whole situation.

As seriously. In my whole life, I have never seen this kind of stuff happen before. Not like this.

Jer

Actually, the refund offer for the pre-order yearly and lifetimes subscriptions was suppose to end on Monday so the fact that it did is not wrong. Unless ,there was a different one, the one I took advantage of was good untill the first of Feb not till the end of someones first 30 days. Addtionally, if they restracted the add on Monday  the two day wait for people who then requested a refund would not be till today.  When i requested my refund of my yearly subscription  it did infact take two full days.  I actually recived the email on the morning on the second full day and the credit appeared on my card latter that day.The response you posted from them  is perfectly fine. While not admitting liability  it does  retract any apparent offer of an extra 60 days.  It is just phrased in lawyer speak instead of in plain English.  If infact they did not intend to make an offer for an extra 60 days then infact the offer 'never' existed."  As for how they are handling people well that is a different matter.  I do know they closed down all but one thread on the subject on their forums and asked for people to all post there instead of makign new ones.  As for people being banned  well I can not comment on that as I do not know the actuall reasons for the banns.  I do know that some people have posted that they have infact received a refund from Atari for  a purchases  based on the 'mistaken" add.

Cryptics PR relations office must be the worst ever. First the CO debacle with the paid content addition and now this.

Originally posted by Lanthir

The point is they are perfectlly within their rigths to say it was not part of the deal if infact it was published ( the add) by mistake.  They can then retract the offer and remove the adds. They would cliam that as soon as it was brought to their attention they removed them.  Their options to the customers who purhcased under the 'mistaken offer" is to either refund their full purchase price or agree to live up to the agreement for those limited customers only. They woudl win in court as long as the court aggreed that they corrected the add in a timely manner  and dealt with their customers in either of the aformentioned ways.

  Now seeing how just last week they refunded the prepaid lifetimes and yearly sub fees to any who claeed before the weekend  I would tend to give them the benifit of the doubt that there was an error made.   Is it bad  PR yes. 

Thank you Lanthir.

This here was the just of my argument to begin with. Some people looked at the screenshots I posted and saw 90 free days and I looked at the screenshot and saw 60 free days. I later pointed out why Cryptic may have back peddled on the deal and under what reasons they might give. I compared this to how similar situations occur all the time in retail stores and how hard it is to bring up the fraud charge against a business for something so blatantly common.

Then Lanthir posted his actual experience on the matter with his situation when dealing with his refund from the company. And got his refund in a timely manner despite the flood of request I'm sure Cryptic received on the matter. But I was met with nothing but stones, insults and disregard. I think a lot of posters and gamers in general will have to come to grips with their emotions when dealing with others in heated situations. Something  proven in this very thread that many are lacking.

If someone has a different way of looking at things than yourself it does not mean that they are dense, illiterate, trolling or blind (all which I was pelted with). It simply means that not everyone's experiences lead to only one possible outcome.

Originally posted by Guillermo197

About time you posted it ;)

You forgot to add that ATARI not only suddenly retracted the whole offer yesterday morning.

They also suddenly took in a stance of flat out saying the offer NEVER existed!

the reporters are fairly busy, i'm sure, as to not have time to get so lost in the details.

I've never seen a company so prone to shooting itself in the foot so unnecessarily.

All Cryptic/Atari had to do was to give all non-lifetime subscribers 1-2 extra months of gameplay.  They could have given the Lifetime subscribers 300-500 Cryptic Points and the whole thing would have blown over.

The timing of this sale blew goats, trying to reverse the sale mid-stream was an even worse idea.

All I can say is the game had better last more than 18 months or they're going to get hit with a Class Action suit from the Lifers.

Originally posted by Lanthir

The point is they are perfectlly within their rigths to say it was not part of the deal if infact it was published ( the add) by mistake.  They can then retract the offer and remove the adds. They would cliam that as soon as it was brought to their attention they removed them.  Their options to the customers who purhcased under the 'mistaken offer" is to either refund their full purchase price or agree to live up to the agreement for those limited customers only. They woudl win in court as long as the court aggreed that they corrected the add in a timely manner  and dealt with their customers in either of the aformentioned ways.

  Now seeing how just last week they refunded the prepaid lifetimes and yearly sub fees to any who claeed before the weekend  I would tend to give them the benifit of the doubt that there was an error made.   Is it bad  PR yes. 

No they can't. This is called "false advertising" and is completely illegal. They have to honour what they advertised at the time, no matter what. They can end the sale early and no longer offer it after they ended the sale, but as long as it's published they have to honour the advertised sale price.

If WalMart prints a flyer that mistakenly offers Playstation 3s for $29.99 they have to sell people those Playstation 3s for thirty bucks.

Originally posted by Xondar123

Originally posted by Lanthir

The point is they are perfectlly within their rigths to say it was not part of the deal if infact it was published ( the add) by mistake.  They can then retract the offer and remove the adds. They would cliam that as soon as it was brought to their attention they removed them.  Their options to the customers who purhcased under the 'mistaken offer" is to either refund their full purchase price or agree to live up to the agreement for those limited customers only. They woudl win in court as long as the court aggreed that they corrected the add in a timely manner  and dealt with their customers in either of the aformentioned ways.

  Now seeing how just last week they refunded the prepaid lifetimes and yearly sub fees to any who claeed before the weekend  I would tend to give them the benifit of the doubt that there was an error made.   Is it bad  PR yes. 

 

No they can't. This is called "false advertising" and is completely illegal. They have to honour what they advertised at the time, no matter what. They can end the sale early and no longer offer it after they ended the sale, but as long as it's published they have to honour the advertised sale price.

If WalMart prints a flyer that mistakenly offers Playstation 3s for $29.99 they have to sell people those Playstation 3s for thirty bucks.

This is the blatant knee-jerking I knew would pop up. This is certainly NOT a case of false advertisement as first you have to prove that the defendant is trying to deceive customers into buying something that they already know they will NOT deliver on. And since we all know now that:

• The offer was identified as an error and pulled as soon as possible
• A notice was posted stating the offer (in it's mistaken form) in question should have never been made available
• Customers are being compensated by offering refunds

You cannot prove in a US court of law that it was a malicious attempt to deceive consumers nor was it a case of blatant fraud. This is what I was trying to get at in my original post. Gamers work themselves up in a mindless frenzy every time something fails to go their way. Is the situation irritating? Yes. Does it point out miscommunication between publishers and developers? Yes. Does that mean that every time a mistake is made customers will get their choice in compensation? Not really.

And for the record if Walmart had a flyer listing PS3s for $29.99 and EVERYONE truly knows that they are never that cheap, you can bet on seeing a small sign taped on the display posting that the ad for PS3s in that weeks flyer was a mistake and not Walmart nor any other retailer would ever take a hit on a snafu that big. And obviously giving away 90 days of free gametime is a snafu Atari is not willing to swallow.

Any deal with Atari is like a snake in the grass, you never know when it is going to bite you.

Best thing to do is to stay far away from Atari and Cryptic and their games.  Only fools play with live snakes.

Originally posted by Ramonski7

Originally posted by Lanthir

The point is they are perfectlly within their rigths to say it was not part of the deal if infact it was published ( the add) by mistake.  They can then retract the offer and remove the adds. They would cliam that as soon as it was brought to their attention they removed them.  Their options to the customers who purhcased under the 'mistaken offer" is to either refund their full purchase price or agree to live up to the agreement for those limited customers only. They woudl win in court as long as the court aggreed that they corrected the add in a timely manner  and dealt with their customers in either of the aformentioned ways.

  Now seeing how just last week they refunded the prepaid lifetimes and yearly sub fees to any who claeed before the weekend  I would tend to give them the benifit of the doubt that there was an error made.   Is it bad  PR yes. 

 

Thank you Lanthir.

 

This here was the just of my argument to begin with. Some people looked at the screenshots I posted and saw 90 free days and I looked at the screenshot and saw 60 free days. I later pointed out why Cryptic may have back peddled on the deal and under what reasons they might give. I compared this to how similar situations occur all the time in retail stores and how hard it is to bring up the fraud charge against a business for something so blatantly common.

 

Then Lanthir posted his actual experience on the matter with his situation when dealing with his refund from the company. And got his refund in a timely manner despite the flood of request I'm sure Cryptic received on the matter. But I was met with nothing but stones, insults and disregard. I think a lot of posters and gamers in general will have to come to grips with their emotions when dealing with others in heated situations. Something  proven in this very thread that many are lacking.

 

If someone has a different way of looking at things than yourself it does not mean that they are dense, illiterate, trolling or blind (all which I was pelted with). It simply means that not everyone's experiences lead to only one possible outcome.

If there was no original 30 days of free play time then there would be no need for the word "Extra" when they say an Extra 60 days of free game time. 

Face it, you've been proven wrong beyond a shadow of a doubt and you need to quit. Seriously you got called different things because thats how your acting. Use logic and reason in your debates and discussions and not some blind faith where you try and deny the facts and the evidence presented. You were wrong, get over it and move on. 

Now as far as the deal goes, they made the offer and people purchased it. They are now responsible for making good or offering refunds. Those are there only 2 options to avoid legal action. Thats a fact. They can say now that it was a mistake or never existed if they wish but the fact of the matter is people purchased the product based on the offer presented and Atari is now responsible for making good on that offer because they did not make the retraction prior to people purchasing the product. Trying to do so after the fact = lawsuit.