Originally posted by alazyguy

Originally posted by nakuma

Originally posted by jagd1

Originally posted by nakuma

when you start charging money for a product its not no longer a trial but a service. I have a job, but why would I need to pay them $1 for the opportunity to play their game for 7 days. That is not a trial here is what the defiition of trial means.

 

in the gaming industry a trial of a released game

 

oh by the way, There is a old adage..." there is a sucker born every minute" and "a Fool and his money are soon parted"

 

You are giving so much meaning to 1$ 7days trial , a lot of people asked for trial before buying game until now than AV put a 7days  trial for 1$ .Now people on the fence can try themselves .I think some people complaining just for complaining .If you were not thinking playing game until now still there is not any reason try game for you .It is a pvp game- full loot - FFA if these things were not your  cup of tea still will not be  .

Darkfall has love or hate relation with players if you love it is nice if you hate now youll only spend 1$ (vs. 50) , what is wrong with it?

 

whats wrong with it? im being charged. $1 or $50 im still being charged for a untested product. FFA PVP has nothing to do wwith it. Ive played FFA PVP games. the problem is im being charged for a trial of a product that should otherwise be free. to dismiss that as trivial because you dont mind paying a $1 undermines the rest of the  community that feels its unnecessary. i would like to try the game, but Im not going to pay $1 for a 7 day trial. if its not a $1, how about $5, how bout $10 to test for $7 days where does it stop? either its a free trial or its not. there are no inbetweens. If you disagree with me, cool, fine by me, its your money not mine, spend on what you wish. BUt dont undermine the views and beliefs of rest of the community that feels this is silly and unwarranted. WHen they finally release a "free" trial, then maybe i will try it, until then I'll pass and just keep tabs on the progress from articles released.

 

Aventurine already stated that the $1 nominal charge is to protect the current subscribers.

 

Charging ensures that the credit card used is valid (not obtained from a credit card generator).  This makes it so that Aventurine is able to blacklist the credit cards of people who do not follow the ToS (hackers/gold-sellers/etc)

It also decreases the amount of people trying, minimizing the chances of having "queuefall" again.

There's probably more reasons, but I can't think of them off the top of my head.

 

The target of the trial are probably people who are "on the fence" or people who want to make sure their computer can run the game before purchasing.

Attracting the people who try every single game that has a trial is probably secondary.

actually that is called a temp charge, but they are actually charging a $1. so thats a half truth there. any company that test to verify a credit card is usually in the form of a temporary charge to validate that the charge went trhough and then is promptly removed. where as AV is outright charging, therefore its not a validation of a person's CC but rather an out right charge if they are in fact keeping the charge. i can understand the dislike in having constant queues in the game when they can barely hold their current subscriber base stable. SO this prevents them from having to purchase extra equipment to offset the sudden rise in trial subscribers.

but your statement on the charge is still has disparity vs any other company that does a validation check on your CC when checking to see if its legit. so to me that agruement is null.

Originally posted by nakuma

Originally posted by astrob0y

Originally posted by nakuma

Originally posted by astrob0y

Originally posted by nakuma  

oh by the way, There is a old adage..." there is a sucker born every minute" and "a Fool and his money are soon parted"

 

Good saying. And that is why I like this paid trial. I dont have to buy a product that I want, but have heard so diffrent things about. And just becuse you fail to see why AV dosent give a try out for free dosent meen its silly.

 

then enlighten me.

I know that I dont have any arguements that will enlight you. There is so many posts about why AV is using a 1 $/€  try out. And you havent excepted one of them as valid. Not a single one seems to be ok for you and that makes me believe that you are argueing with emotions. And then there is no enlightment. Please correct me if Im wrong :)

I can understand why you dont want to pay (even a small amount money) for a thing that is supposed to be free. But things will never be standing still, and when it comes to business its for certain.  AV is doing what they are doing andy ou have made it clear that you wont support it by not opening your wallet. 

I am not aruging with my emotions. dont try to get all philosophical on me, keep to what you know lol. If you understand why I wont pay then there is no room for argument. You understand, but you disagree, and I am willing to accept that. Given the business ends, I know the business end, and its getting scary, where everything is being nickeled and dimed, SOE started that(though u can directly avoid itas it doesnt effect the game much if any), cryptic studios has joined the band wagon with extra character slots, new additions, and paid content that should otherwise be included in the $14.95 a month sub price. releasing crappy instanced games for mainstream MMORPG sub prices with repetitive simple gameplay. NcSoft with aion cashshop.

Only thing I dont mind is with console games, e.g. paying $5 for DLC such as optional story arcs, new quests. with a Console game it is understood i pay $60 for the game with DLC being added later in which I pay $5 or so for extra added content. But once again it is understood $60 pays only for the game there is no underhanded or auspicous dealings in which the consumer is fooled. If i dont want to spend $5 i dont have to. I got a full game, for the money i spent.

 

here few companies are going out of their way to charge for silly things such as beta access ( which was used as a tool to help test and debug the game) if you were selected to join the beta, you felt honored to at least be part of testing the game, now itsnothing more than a ploy or a chance to make revenue on a game that may or may not have enough funding to go to retail. (Mortal Online is a major example of this in which the game cant even be considered alpha stage let alone late beta)  This seems more to placate the investors who are bitching on when they are going to recieve the returns on their investment.(nothing scarier than a stiff suit who put millions into your company only to crash it down because he/she didnt understand the process of developing a game and is too damn impatient to see it through).

Im not necesarily brushing with a broad stroke, but the changing pattern in how the industry operates is changing fast, and needs to be nipped in the bud. but spend ya buck, encourage them, and youll be getting charged alot more than a buck, and get far less.

Im not trying to be philosophical with you. We are at mmorpg, one of the more inmature corners of the internet. You asked me to enlight you and what Ive seen is that you are picking what to argue about. Valid points, from my view, is not taken notice by you or just ignored. So there is no need for me to bring up any more arguments.

I believe that what AV has done will be something to excpect in the future. I prefer that insteed of wows chopped down trial experince that wont let me interact with other players in a good way (just for example). And I dont see anything wrong with this trial model. Why should a company use resources to a market that clearly wont stay as customers? There is no business logic in that.

And your thoughts about the game industry is spot on, Im on the same track as you.  To bad my english is so poor so I cant express it. 

Originally posted by astrob0y

Originally posted by nakuma

Originally posted by astrob0y

Originally posted by nakuma

Originally posted by astrob0y

Originally posted by nakuma  

oh by the way, There is a old adage..." there is a sucker born every minute" and "a Fool and his money are soon parted"

 

Good saying. And that is why I like this paid trial. I dont have to buy a product that I want, but have heard so diffrent things about. And just becuse you fail to see why AV dosent give a try out for free dosent meen its silly.

 

then enlighten me.

I know that I dont have any arguements that will enlight you. There is so many posts about why AV is using a 1 $/€  try out. And you havent excepted one of them as valid. Not a single one seems to be ok for you and that makes me believe that you are argueing with emotions. And then there is no enlightment. Please correct me if Im wrong :)

I can understand why you dont want to pay (even a small amount money) for a thing that is supposed to be free. But things will never be standing still, and when it comes to business its for certain.  AV is doing what they are doing andy ou have made it clear that you wont support it by not opening your wallet. 

I am not aruging with my emotions. dont try to get all philosophical on me, keep to what you know lol. If you understand why I wont pay then there is no room for argument. You understand, but you disagree, and I am willing to accept that. Given the business ends, I know the business end, and its getting scary, where everything is being nickeled and dimed, SOE started that(though u can directly avoid itas it doesnt effect the game much if any), cryptic studios has joined the band wagon with extra character slots, new additions, and paid content that should otherwise be included in the $14.95 a month sub price. releasing crappy instanced games for mainstream MMORPG sub prices with repetitive simple gameplay. NcSoft with aion cashshop.

Only thing I dont mind is with console games, e.g. paying $5 for DLC such as optional story arcs, new quests. with a Console game it is understood i pay $60 for the game with DLC being added later in which I pay $5 or so for extra added content. But once again it is understood $60 pays only for the game there is no underhanded or auspicous dealings in which the consumer is fooled. If i dont want to spend $5 i dont have to. I got a full game, for the money i spent.

 

here few companies are going out of their way to charge for silly things such as beta access ( which was used as a tool to help test and debug the game) if you were selected to join the beta, you felt honored to at least be part of testing the game, now itsnothing more than a ploy or a chance to make revenue on a game that may or may not have enough funding to go to retail. (Mortal Online is a major example of this in which the game cant even be considered alpha stage let alone late beta)  This seems more to placate the investors who are bitching on when they are going to recieve the returns on their investment.(nothing scarier than a stiff suit who put millions into your company only to crash it down because he/she didnt understand the process of developing a game and is too damn impatient to see it through).

Im not necesarily brushing with a broad stroke, but the changing pattern in how the industry operates is changing fast, and needs to be nipped in the bud. but spend ya buck, encourage them, and youll be getting charged alot more than a buck, and get far less.

Im not trying to be philosophical with you. We are at mmorpg, one of the more inmature corners of the internet. You asked me to enlight you and what Ive seen is that you are picking what to argue about. Valid points, from my view, is not taken notice by you or just ignored. So there is no need for me to bring up any more arguments.

I believe that what AV has done will be something to excpect in the future. I prefer that insteed of wows chopped down trial experince that wont let me interact with other players in a good way (just for example). And I dont see anything wrong with this trial model. Why should a company use resources to a market that clearly wont stay as customers? There is no business logic in that.

And your thoughts about the game industry is spot on, Im on the same track as you.  To bad my english is so poor so I cant express it. 

well free is still better than a dollar, regardless if the game is cut in half or not. but Wow and DF are also two completely different animals. You cant directly compare the 2  where WOW has core PVE with PVP "elements" and DF is out right open FFA PVP with death penality, risk of losing gear and money, you can't say play one and say well the other is the same, because they aren't. Only thing that is the same is the "Time-limitation" meaning after a set number of days, you are canceled out with an option to "upgrade" to a full client with all the trimmings. Yes, DF offers their game unrestricted for 7 days, but its not really any different than WOW's 7 day trial, only thing that is different is the "activities" that  you do as a player one is more likely to be PVE questing the other PVP. but one charges you money to test, the other doesnt.

for poor english you speak better than most americans do lol. so dont worry.

Is not the trial a great thing? : )

Anyone (over 18) can try it.

Originally posted by daarco

Is not the trial a great thing? : )

Anyone (over 18) can try it.

Its really great :) Insteed of strange question like remarks like "how do i use a weapon!!!? plz tell. or game sux!" there is a nice calm in the chatt box. 

Bit late, but meh. 

Okay, I'll give you the temp charge argument.  I don't know enough about how credit card verifications and such work to argue any more in-depth.

Since there's really nothing more to argue on this post, I'll move onto your nickel-and-dime post that I missed!  :P

Here's the list of things Aventurines charge for: Account (client), subscription, Account+Character Transfers, and $1 Trial.

Other than the $1 trial part, that's pretty standard, correct?

Now, what does Aventurine not charge for that most people charge for?  Additional game content (or expansions)!

Now, compare the cost of a $1 trial and the usual cost of an expansion...   and then tell me if Aventurine is really nickel-and-diming.

And a whole 'nother point...

Aventurine's customer support staff is probably pretty small.

Throw in a trial, and quality of support is likely to be compromised.

With the $1 charge, the trial-base is smaller, and the $1 can be put towards hiring more support staff.

And wallah, the quality of support (which many players are satisfied with) has a lower chance of being affected.

Mmmm...  looks like my points aren't very well stated, but oh well!  You get the idea.  Please don't say that they shouldn't have trials if they can't support them without charging...  :P

 A week really isn't long enough... the moment you log in, you're the worst at anything that you will ever be, and the first few weeks can be rough. So a week doesn't really give an accurate account of just how the game can be.

This isn't a gripe, just advice to folk picking up the trial... if you can make it through your first week without burning your house down or stabbing somebody, then you will likely find a lot to love as your character and your own skill progresses. But the first week will be the hardest.

Originally posted by alazyguy

Bit late, but meh. 

 

Okay, I'll give you the temp charge argument.  I don't know enough about how credit card verifications and such work to argue any more in-depth.

 

Since there's really nothing more to argue on this post, I'll move onto your nickel-and-dime post that I missed!  :P

 

Here's the list of things Aventurines charge for: Account (client), subscription, Account+Character Transfers, and $1 Trial.

Other than the $1 trial part, that's pretty standard, correct?

 

Now, what does Aventurine not charge for that most people charge for?  Additional game content (or expansions)!

 

Now, compare the cost of a $1 trial and the usual cost of an expansion...   and then tell me if Aventurine is really nickel-and-diming.

 

And a whole 'nother point...

Aventurine's customer support staff is probably pretty small.

Throw in a trial, and quality of support is likely to be compromised.

With the $1 charge, the trial-base is smaller, and the $1 can be put towards hiring more support staff.

And wallah, the quality of support (which many players are satisfied with) has a lower chance of being affected.

 

Mmmm...  looks like my points aren't very well stated, but oh well!  You get the idea.  Please don't say that they shouldn't have trials if they can't support them without charging...  :P

k I wont sasy they shouldnt have trials if they cant support them. They can charge if they want is their right as a business. But given the industry standard of trials being free and that is not going to for a good while, they should expect a smaller percentage of people to be willing to "risk" a charge for a trial regardless if its just $1. I dont believe i should spend money trying out a product especially considering how the gaming industry is run, whether its a regular single player demo, or MMO trial its a standard for people to try your game showing them the basic aspect of the game to have them decide if they want to purchase it or not.

but It's safe to say we wont see eye to eye. lets just agree to disagree lol.

Agree to disagree?  Sure.

I just gotta quote this though:

"But given the industry standard of trials being free and that is not going to for a good while, they should expect a smaller percentage of people to be willing to "risk" a charge for a trial regardless if its just $1"

I can't agree to disagree to that though.  :P

Why?

Because I've said that I believed part of the reason for the $1 charge is to reduce the amount of people trying.

Just to clarify.

I've been arguing that the $1 charge was not a bad decision, and will not snow-ball into charging for every little thing.

I have not been arguing that everyone should pony up the $1.

Originally posted by nakuma

when you start charging money for a product its not no longer a trial but a service. I have a job, but why would I need to pay them $1 for the opportunity to play their game for 7 days. That is not a trial here is what the defiition of trial means.

a. The act or process of testing, trying, or putting to the proof

2.made, done, or used for the purpose of trying, testing, etc

in the gaming industry a trial of a released game, implies the potential consumer is to freely test/play the game to see if it meets their interests under provised restrictions, and limitations of scope, time, or features for the possibility of future purchase or procurement. In short terms "hey try our game its free, but to play further you have to buy the actual game".

 

AV doesnt do this. they instead charge you a small fee for the same risk of not knowing what to expect. You may like the game, you may not, but in the end they are offering a service, small or large, its still charging and therefore it is not a trial. It is a service with limitations.

They are either too lazy, or understaffed to code a trial version of the game that prevents abuse of the game. I cannot think of a game that actually charges for a trial account. this is just another form of nickel and diming to get more revenue by AV. Its both unprofessional, and directly illustrates their inability to compete with mainstream industry. I wouldn't mind giving the game a try, but to be charged to try the game is down right silly. I'll pass.

 

oh by the way, There is a old adage..." there is a sucker born every minute" and "a Fool and his money are soon parted"

Congrats on the job, so why are you sweating about a dollar?  In the definition you posted of trial, there was never a mention of free, and it seems to me that the DF Trial meets the criteria by terms of Webster.  So why are you trying to monopolize the term 'trail'?  It seems to me that AV is capable of  defining that term under their business model, and if it keeps out the people who find a reason to complain about anything and everything.. more power to them!

they should instead ggive a free trail if they want people to play their game.free trail=more people try=more people buy if they like.

Is it not obvious they are doing this to get your creditcard info on file, since the credit card processing charge negates any profit made?

They might even lose a few pennies per sub..

Originally posted by sidfu

they should instead ggive a free trail if they want people to play their game.free trail=more people try=more people buy if they like.

Your lack of understanding is disturbing, but I do understand your point as far as "more people trying it if it's free".

Free trials are fine in PvE games, the impact to the existing playerbase is minimal, or just annoyance which can be easily dealt with by the measures often used, such as reach level 10 before you can use chat channels or no channel chat at all for trials etc.

The PvE restriction methods just wouldn't work in a game like Darkfall because it has no levels & is unrestricted PvP with full loot, Aventurine have done what they feel is the best solution for their game & I agree with their methods for many of the reasons already stated.

Creating extra servers for free trials would mean extra costs for the company instead of utilising existing systems & hardware & wouldn't give players a real taste of what Darkfall is about, the trial allows people to see what the existant community is like as well as the game itself.

I think it is imporant that instead of opening the game up to every Tom Dick or Harry that they are in effect only lowering the barrier to those customers that have the means to buy their game & pay a sub, it will deter a large portion of potential "viewers" but it will not reduce it's potential buyers at all.

What OTHER games do is not important, we don't have industry standards, for exampleif EVE feels free 14 day trials are right for their game that's their decision to make.

I think a lot of whining here is from the "say they won't pay but in fact can't pay anyway" crowd, a few are paranoid beyond reason, and many are just ignorant, if you are not prepared to spend 1 dollar to gain a real opinion then your opinion is worth what?

Originally posted by Vaedur

Is it not obvious they are doing this to get your creditcard info on file, since the credit card processing charge negates any profit made?

They might even lose a few pennies per sub..

 

 

Then you can just pay with Paypal if you don't want them to get your CC info, Paypal exists exactly with that purpose as the major benefit (IMO).

 Though I wonder if it takes 2 days to DL the client, do they deduct those days away from your trial time like some trials do?

Is DF still completely infested of cheaters who can fly through the air, swim underground and turn your ship in to an aeroplane?

Originally posted by Czanrei

 Though I wonder if it takes 2 days to DL the client, do they deduct those days away from your trial time like some trials do?

You are advised by Aventurine to download the client before paying the $1, if you fail at reading that then it's your problem, you can download the client totally free of charge, then pay the $1 to allow you to log in.

 Almost free trial = great idea IMO. Looking forward to giving this game a try!

Originally posted by kishe

Is DF still completely infested of cheaters who can fly through the air, swim underground and turn your ship in to an aeroplane?

Haven't seen any of those in my month of playtime.

Originally posted by xanphia

Originally posted by kishe

Is DF still completely infested of cheaters who can fly through the air, swim underground and turn your ship in to an aeroplane?

 

Haven't seen any of those in my month of playtime.

In over 3 months I haven't witnessed it.