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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Games going backwards?

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21 posts found
  gaeanprayer

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/08
Posts: 2360

 
OP  2/21/10 8:36:36 PM#1

It is just me, or are games actually getting uglier? Now I know there will be many who claim graphics don't matter, but yes they do :3 Mediocre graphics can be overlooked in favor of decent & original gameplay, but there isn't much to be had these days. Overall, MMOs are cutouts of one another, and the only thing that sets them apart is what combination of over-done game mechanics has been implemented versus another.

 

In the end they all play pretty much the same. Quest this, kill 50 of them, level up here, get to level/skill/stat/insert attribute cap there. So none of the gameplay is refreshing, but to top it off, it seems like graphics are actually getting ~worse~. Have you seen the games that are just recently CBing? They look like the PC games of more than a decade ago.

 

So now on top of monotonous gameplay, it's ugly, too? There are a few games that are both attractive and attempting something new in terms of gameplay, but they're not due to be out for quite some time. Most don't even have a CB date yet.

 

I think it's time I breakdown and invest in a PS3. How do you guys feel about the state of MMOs of late?

"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  User Deleted
3/06/10 1:14:49 AM#2

I think is partially burnout and rehash of the same ole same ole. Having go through many trials and dabbling in other MMOs along the way. Many just leave me feeling bland and uninterested. The main problem I see is that many people treat MMOs as a solo game with small dabbles in group play. I dislike solo grinding and questing when it comprises 75% of my game. Granted there should be solo material but it just irritates me that people are so anti-party in MMOs. Except when they utterly have to group in order to raid or do dungeons.
  I have gone back to AO cause its familiar and F2P. Until I can find something that is worth my 15 bucks a month I will stick with it. Sorry for the rant :P

  imp0

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/13/08
Posts: 55

3/06/10 1:46:30 PM#3

i hate all these new mmos. i miss stuff like eq, daoc, ao, shadowbane... i dont rly play mmos anymore but i still crave them

  User Deleted
3/06/10 8:41:28 PM#4

I'm one of them who come in this thread and say that graphics don't matter. It's all about art style, music, lore and community that create the atmosphere. There's several reasons why MMO's mostly don't have good graphics. Go benchmark Crysis you!
 

 

Well, computer performance hasn't evolved as much in the past 3 years or so as in beginning of the decade. What games are you referring to though? AoC, Aion, Fallen Earth, STO for example have good graphics and they were released not so long ago. FFXIV, Earthrise, TERA, SWOTR coming out fairly soon and I believe most of those have great graphics as well. It's only the indie releases like Linkrealms that are still in 2003, but I think it's quite logical that they don't have much eye candy.

  picamon

Novice Member

Joined: 2/15/10
Posts: 81

3/09/10 5:55:17 AM#5

Well new games are coming out more of them came form evolution from old games somewhat remaked, but then storylines, grpahic type and genres are still same, more games are just being cloned from good game sand just changing some game systems and storylines but then if you search throughly you will see they are the same, specially the fantasy based games they are more popular in this kind of magical era state but the the evolution of games came to its best of having this 3D animation and skill based system, and from ordinary hack and slash there he comes the turn based.

  evilash80

Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/10
Posts: 17

3/09/10 8:14:41 AM#6

I have to say I agree with the thread starter here - graphics in games are looking a lot more uglier - yes there have been advances, but on the whole they don't look great. It's because games are rushed out and are only interested in the latest 3D engines rather than creating a unique visual experience

  biplex

Novice Member

Joined: 11/04/04
Posts: 276

3/09/10 8:17:56 AM#7


Originally posted by gaeanprayerHave you seen the games that are just recently CBing? They look like the PC games of more than a decade ago.

You talking Mortal Online? yes it's crap. But take a look at TERA. It's built on the same engine (Unreal 3) and it looks so beautifull...



http://www.teraonline.info.pl Polski Poradnik Gry Tera Online

  maji

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/15/04
Posts: 1945

3/09/10 8:27:32 AM#8

Hmmm some examples of the OP would be fine, which games he thinks are older and have incredible graphics, and which newer games by comparable companies have worse graphics.

Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)

Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)

  Miles-Prower

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/10
Posts: 1117

I'm a Brony and proud. Friendship, Love and acceptance. What's not to love?

3/09/10 8:29:35 AM#9
Originally posted by gaeanprayer

It is just me, or are games actually getting uglier? Now I know there will be many who claim graphics don't matter, but yes they do :3 Mediocre graphics can be overlooked in favor of decent & original gameplay, but there isn't much to be had these days. Overall, MMOs are cutouts of one another, and the only thing that sets them apart is what combination of over-done game mechanics has been implemented versus another.

 

In the end they all play pretty much the same. Quest this, kill 50 of them, level up here, get to level/skill/stat/insert attribute cap there. So none of the gameplay is refreshing, but to top it off, it seems like graphics are actually getting ~worse~. Have you seen the games that are just recently CBing? They look like the PC games of more than a decade ago.

 

So now on top of monotonous gameplay, it's ugly, too? There are a few games that are both attractive and attempting something new in terms of gameplay, but they're not due to be out for quite some time. Most don't even have a CB date yet.

 

I think it's time I breakdown and invest in a PS3. How do you guys feel about the state of MMOs of late?

 

Games are actually getting "prettier" in my opinion. MMORPGs are difficult to produce for a variety of reasons.

  1. They generally only target a niche market, which means they don't necessarily make a lot of money
  2. Making the game unplayable to all but a few bleeding edge players further increases the niche.

Balancing the game between graphics and quality are the biggest challenges facing producers of MMORPGs. That's why it's so important for companies like Blizzard to do routine "System checks" when you play the game. This process if done in the background and usually goes undetected by many users.

The best type of MMORPG is those that "Trick" you into thinking they have really good graphics, when they don't. The best example of this can be seen in Aion. A lot of the textures you see look pretty, but in reality they are 2D, but made to look 3D.

This is a cheap, effective way to add depth to your game, but allow it to run on a wide assortment of machines.


~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!



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  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6908

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

3/09/10 8:52:54 AM#10
Originally posted by evilash80

I have to say I agree with the thread starter here - graphics in games are looking a lot more uglier - yes there have been advances, but on the whole they don't look great. It's because games are rushed out and are only interested in the latest 3D engines rather than creating a unique visual experience

Look no further than BLIZZARD,Diablo+ Sc+ ,if they can get away with people paying them for sub par efforts,they will do it.

Everyone talks about how great Eve is,why do you think CCP made Dust a BETTER looking game?Because they understand to attract a bigger demographic you have to put out a better effort.Square made the new game engine and FFXIV to take over for FFXI,they knew everyone wanted a better looking game,so they are delivering.

You really CANNOT create an immersive world if everything looks ugly and fake,and has literally no detail,it actually ruins the game more than helps.

Blizzard is working on a new MMO and they went out and licensed a high end game engine,so they understand they must keep up with the times,but you still need to put in the effort,licensing an engine is only 10% of the equation.

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  Alberel

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/09
Posts: 1121

3/09/10 8:52:58 AM#11

In my opinion the obsession with graphics is one of the reasons gaming in general is suffering at the moment. Developers are investing more in making a game look good than into making it play good and actually be worth the money.

I'm sure the graphics obsession is partly to blame for single player games becoming shorter and shorter in recent years.

In MMOs better graphics will come at the expense of content. There's no two ways about this. If the graphical quality is higher then content will take longer to develop, either for launch or for future updates. You also have to take into account, as others have said, that MMOs need to be accesible to those with lower end machines and still look good.

The trick that a lot of devs are starting to take note of is using lower quality but with an art style that masks it well. Blizzard is probably one of the most successful devs at using this trick, and this is arguably one of the main reasons that WoW is so successful.

The only developers that will be able to reasonably invest a large amount of money into the engine and graphical quality without sacrificing other elements of the game are those with money to burn; Square Enix, Bioware, Blizzard, to name a few. Then you get devs like NCSoft who invest pretty much their entire budget into making it look pretty and seem to forget about the rest of the game...

Games aren't going backwards, they're finally starting to realise that pushing graphical quality to its limit is only an illusion of progress if the rest of the game can't keep up. Graphics don't hide a bad game.

  NovaKayne

Novice Member

Joined: 3/04/04
Posts: 748

That is just my opion and we all know what THAT is good for!

3/09/10 9:51:51 AM#12

I agree on the grafx point but, IMO I think developers are trying to pick up on some console crowd.  I do not understand this other than the WoW effect of making things more accessable to various gamer types.

 

Like the rest of the MMO community though it makes the games feel watered down and catereing to the lowest common denominator.  Casual gamers who do not want to invest the time and effort into an MMO of old.

Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.

  Shijeer

Novice Member

Joined: 12/19/08
Posts: 134

3/09/10 10:21:41 PM#13

As far as the whole obsession with the visuals and the subsequent lack of gameplay goes I have but two words : diminishing returns.


We are at a very awkward point in PC game development, good enough to either make the game look amazing or make it play amazing, but not both. But fear not my friends, for there is only so much improvement left until the advances become so marginal that the end user hardly notices a difference. Once making games look zomg amazing becomes trivial companies will be forced to compete through other means such as better gameplay/story like back in the good old days, mark my word on this.


- Shijeer  

  Alberel

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/09
Posts: 1121

3/09/10 10:27:50 PM#14
Originally posted by Shijeer

As far as the whole obsession with the visuals and the subsequent lack of gameplay goes I have but two words : diminishing returns.

We are at a very awkward point in PC game development, good enough to either make the game look amazing or make it play amazing, but not both. But fear not my friends, for there is only so much improvement left until the advances become so marginal that the end user hardly notices a difference. Once making games look zomg amazing becomes trivial companies will be forced to compete through other means such as better gameplay/story like back in the good old days, mark my word on this.

- Shijeer  

I'm not so sure about that. It's likely that once that point is reached devs will start experimenting with new technology, such as 3D, VR, etc. Reaching the pinnacle of two dimensional display quality is not, unfortunately, the end of the road for graphical advancement.

  Amathe

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/02/05
Posts: 1666

3/09/10 11:58:05 PM#15

I think there are a lot of new games that are visually appealing. But I don't think they set a mood as well as some games have in the past. Anyone can make a forest, but making a forest that instills dread is harder.

EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  User Deleted
3/10/10 12:18:42 AM#16

You have a good point.  Keep in mind though that MMOs in general require a lot more resources than single player games.  Not only do you have to make the game engine compatible with most computers(which is harder for MMOs to do), but designing MMOs take a very long time.  When you have to make an MMO, there's just less time to work on graphics.  Perhaps more companies are trying to focus on making content and building on the game than using their time to make stunning graphics.  Another reason for sloppy graphics might be the devs trying to capture nostalgia from the old school gamers who liked crappy graphics...  Just a theory, but who knows.

Oh and by the way, don't get a PS3, Xbox 360 FTW :P.  Just a joke, hope I didn't piss off any PS3 fanboys out there ;).

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5351

3/10/10 4:34:58 AM#17

New MMO's look great but thats the only great thing about them.

  biplex

Novice Member

Joined: 11/04/04
Posts: 276

3/10/10 4:49:43 AM#18


Originally posted by Wizardry
Blizzard is working on a new MMO and they went out and licensed a high end game engine,so they understand they must keep up with the times,but you still need to put in the effort,licensing an engine is only 10% of the equation.

So which engine did Blizzard licensed?


http://www.teraonline.info.pl Polski Poradnik Gry Tera Online

  jonrd463

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/24/09
Posts: 608

3/10/10 4:57:44 AM#19
Originally posted by Serpentar

I think is partially burnout and rehash of the same ole same ole. Having go through many trials and dabbling in other MMOs along the way. Many just leave me feeling bland and uninterested. The main problem I see is that many people treat MMOs as a solo game with small dabbles in group play. I dislike solo grinding and questing when it comprises 75% of my game. Granted there should be solo material but it just irritates me that people are so anti-party in MMOs. Except when they utterly have to group in order to raid or do dungeons.
  I have gone back to AO cause its familiar and F2P. Until I can find something that is worth my 15 bucks a month I will stick with it. Sorry for the rant :P

 

With apologies to the OP for going slightly off topic, I wanted to address one of your points there with an opinion and theory I have. It's with regard to the lack of grouping. I think part of the blame for that is the increased size of the MMO playerbase now vs. the early days. We talk about how MMOs are niche now, but back then, the main people that played them were a bit more hardcore as far as liking the RPG genre. We'd been playing our single-player party-based games for so long that the idea of forming a party with real live people tickled the pen & paper fancy of some people, and the playerbase of was mostly of like mind.

 

Now the population has exploded with the popularity of WoW in the mainstream, and the playerbase has become diluted. Sure, the old school people are still there, but they're being drowned out by people entering the MMO fray without much oldschool RPG experience. Back in the days when UO and EQ1 were new, you'd find that most players cut their gaming teeth on Gold Box RPGs, Baldur's Gate, Fallout 1/2, etc. Now, I bet if the question "What was your first game?" were asked to the general MMO population, you'd probably get answers like "Half Life 2, COD, Battlefield series", and other action-oriented games. These games generally fostered an every man for himself mentality, so the idea of forming a cooperative group is at best a necessary irritation to achieve a personal goal.

 

On the flip side of the coin, you have your old school RPGers shying away from wanting to group due to the very real chance their groupmates will be of this "PEW PEW PEW!!!! GET TO DA LOOTZ!!!" mentality and decide to go it alone.

 

Merely my own opinion, of course.

"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous

  Yohanu

Novice Member

Joined: 7/23/09
Posts: 216

3/10/10 5:07:05 AM#20

 Well, in terms of graphics i'm not sure. In terms of gameplay they are definately going backwards though. Less and less complexity, fluff, dynamic environments and more graphics/same thing but "different".

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