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Star Wars Galaxies

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SWG Veteran Refuge  » Are we really doing the industry a service?

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81 posts found
  KyngBills

Novice Member

Joined: 6/13/06
Posts: 452

3/04/10 9:57:51 AM#61
Originally posted by TUX426
Originally posted by Swoogie

I am against the NGE but I heavily prefer SWG pre-NGE because of the way my character would progress through tiers. It was the best advancing system I have ever encountered  but that isnt the reason why I quit SWG. I think all of these angry vets need to open thier eyes and give SWG a shot for what it is now. It a friggen game. People shouldnt get so emotionally attached that they are still distraught many years later. I dont play SWG becuase in order for me to enjoy a MMO, I need to be with lots of people, not just running around in a giant world with no one around. Its part of the reason I didnt stay with EQ when I tried it a few months ago.

 

In short, Vets please go and give SWG another try when they have these "free periods". I am sure you wont be dissapointed.

 

You realize you're saying this immediately following a free month right? I'm willing to bet you that over 90% of us posting here DID log in.


 

I did...All 3 Accounts...Hardly saw anyone on Flurry though I did notice quite a few Vets from the old Guild logged in for a look see...Then they went back to whatever they are playing now...lol

  Swoogie

Novice Member

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 402

3/04/10 11:26:12 AM#62
Originally posted by TUX426
Originally posted by Swoogie

I am against the NGE but I heavily prefer SWG pre-NGE because of the way my character would progress through tiers. It was the best advancing system I have ever encountered  but that isnt the reason why I quit SWG. I think all of these angry vets need to open thier eyes and give SWG a shot for what it is now. It a friggen game. People shouldnt get so emotionally attached that they are still distraught many years later. I dont play SWG becuase in order for me to enjoy a MMO, I need to be with lots of people, not just running around in a giant world with no one around. Its part of the reason I didnt stay with EQ when I tried it a few months ago.

 

In short, Vets please go and give SWG another try when they have these "free periods". I am sure you wont be dissapointed.

 

You realize you're saying this immediately following a free month right? I'm willing to bet you that over 90% of us posting here DID log in.

Trust me...we KNOW what the game has become. This isn't about NGE vs. CU or preCU mate. It's that the game has gotten worse and worse and worse. Fairy wings? Halos? zombies? Dude...really. We KNOW what the game is all about.


 

I do know it is follow a free month. My dad, who was sorely dissapointed with NGE, went back and played. He liked it and though NGE really ticked him off.

If 90% of these SWG vets are so upset with the new crap in the game( Fairy wings, Halos, and Zombie Wookies(i think)) then and not NGE, then they need to stop whining like babies all the time. It gets annoying.

I dont play EQ becuase SoE handled it poorly after WoW came out but I dont go around the forums always whining about it. I just use it as a example when necessary. As Ive said in other threads, I went back to EQ a bit ago for a few months and it was lacking in many areas. Guess what? I dont play it and Im over it. Ill try it again in a year or something.

As for now, I went back to WoW and LotRO.

  TUX426

Inquisitor

Joined: 8/04/09
Posts: 1971

Always remember that you're unique. Just like everyone else.

3/04/10 12:00:11 PM#63
Originally posted by Swoogie


 

I do know it is follow a free month. My dad, who was sorely dissapointed with NGE, went back and played. He liked it and though NGE really ticked him off.

If 90% of these SWG vets are so upset with the new crap in the game( Fairy wings, Halos, and Zombie Wookies(i think)) then and not NGE, then they need to stop whining like babies all the time. It gets annoying.

I dont play EQ becuase SoE handled it poorly after WoW came out but I dont go around the forums always whining about it. I just use it as a example when necessary. As Ive said in other threads, I went back to EQ a bit ago for a few months and it was lacking in many areas. Guess what? I dont play it and Im over it. Ill try it again in a year or something.

As for now, I went back to WoW and LotRO.

 

Well, that's great for your Dad mate, but please don't lump us all in as whiners, complainers or NGE haters just because he was.

I happen to enjoy discussing SWG tbh. It was a very fun game while it lasted...and it has some potential to be so again.

Like you, I'm free to express my dislike for the corny new crap they add just as anyone here is free to defend it. To me, this is an extreme lesson in poor management and the largest game failure I'll ever be a part of - it's fun to debate because it's happening NOW. Me expressing my opinions doesn't make me a "whiner"...it's my opinion, nothing more.

Complaining about what other people want to debate does tend to be whining IMO though.

  Esquire1980

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/12/07
Posts: 530

 
OP  3/04/10 12:50:43 PM#64
Originally posted by TUX426
Originally posted by Esquire1980

I lose nothing when SOE dies also.  But, due to SOE and their mistakes, we all have lost SWG, that every one of us enjoyed to the point that we continue to post on forums about our "old game", and our sandbox MMORPGs.  Can't even fathom ST:O.  Didn't last 2 weeks after launch on such a rushed, repetitive, and just plain bad story-based themepark MMO.  So, I play solitare.  Funny, that feels like a lose to me.

It's not the forums that have made our message so prominate.  It's word of mouth.  The forums have pretty much all the same people discussing what has been discussed all before.  It is our vengence, want to warn others, etc. that have gotten the message out so completly that the industry has taken to mean that "sandbox" will create all these problems.  How many times, in your years at SWG, did you get some1 to sub?  How many times since the SOE mistake of messing with your senator-ship/forum presence have you signed up some1 else, now?  How many times have we all told some1, "Hey, don't try SWG cause SOE still runs it"?  And for good cause.  They have mismanaged SWG, the forums, the senate to the point that no1 in their right mind would ever trust them again.

It may be cheaper to put out trash, but with the ever growing list of failed releases/games, you would believe that some1 in the industry would get the idea pretty quick.  Maybe Bioware has with the backing off of the release of TOR.  I can only hope.  They asked for beta testors about a month after STO did.  However their release is over a year later than STOs.  Looks like, I hope, they may have seen the reaction to STO and decided to include more than just story based content.  But that could be another dream, too.

Jack Emmert, Cryptic, said in a best buy chat that he wanted to put in some sandbox to STO.  They might have had a boat load of more succesful launch if they would of took the time to include this AT launch.  However, they pretty much included nothing at launch other than a few repetive quests.  Looks like Emmert has "got it" some here but not enough to get it all out when your making that all important 1st impression.

 

Wait...you said  "we all lose" and now you say you don't? 

You are WRONG WRONG WRONG about "word of mouth". Let me ask you...how many people do you ask for their opinion before buying/playing a game? SWG isn't some new release, it's a 'has been' title that's been out for 7 freaking years. The sad truth is, the GAME is just THAT BAD!!! People dislike it. It's really THAT SIMPLE!!! 

 

And what is your deal with talking about STO or Cryptic here? You seem to really be hung up on that rival game - is it fear? Cryptic may have a lot of work to do, but their Devs post more in one hour each day than SoE's do in a freaking week! Hell, their Devs are in IRC daily with trolls. Players for STO ask for ships they can walk through, Crytic is working on just that. SWG players ask for "factional differences", they get 2 new sets of flipping fairy wings. Come on lol...comparing Cryptic to SoE is just foolish.


 

Reading is fundamental.  "Lose nothing when SOE dies"  and "we all have lost SWG".  I can even relish in SOE's demise but still morn SWG, the game, as I once knew it.

And, after 5 years with SOE and on older games, yes, I ask and try to gain an informed decision on any game I play, now.  I have to disagree with you that SWG is "that bad".  The game isn't that bad, it is SOE's management that is "that bad".  Even if you can get past the CHANGES and can actualy like the game again or even for the 1st time, there remains no trust that the game you play today will be the game you play tomorrow.  It's not that SWG is that "bad", outdated, people dislike it, that "simple".  It's SOE is that "bad", outdated, people dislike THEM, and it is that "simple".

Do I fear ST:O?  Why exactly would I fear ST:O?  I looked forward to it.  I signed up for the forums the DAY that Cryptic launched the site.  I bit on the "pay for beta" and bought 6 months for Champs when I had no intention what-so-ever to play that game.  I supported Cryptic, all the way thru it.  Then the Lies stopped that "you beta testors haven't seen the entire game yet" that we heard all the way thru Closed and Open beta and what we saw was what we got.  There was no more.  Then, I found you could max level in 2 weeks with only 5 quests, reskinned with different NPCs for the only variety.  Then I found there was absolutly NO crafting included.  Most all of the statements made, that interested me pre-launch, were either postponed or non-existant.

Let's see?

Pay for beta scam.

Lies about what is in the game.

Content, NOT included.

Playable races in at Closed Beta but moved pre launch to TCG,  uhhhhh, The Cryptic Store.

Forum Bans commonplace.

Crafting NOT included.

Direct statements that there would be no Starfleet Admirals standing around at headquarters with ? marks over their heads.  Half right maybe, Starfleet headquarters doesn't exist.

Desperation attempts at subs, cutting the cost of the box and including 90 days free, within 30 days of launch???????

Silencing the forums when disgruntled players state the facts?

No more "I quit" posts.

The CEO of Cryptic ends up being John Smedley trained and approved, complete with the former office down the hall from Smed's.

 

Don't you see a pattern here????????

You may like it and you may still support it.  They did include PVP but it wasn't really planned for launch either.  There was a raul in Closed beta that it didn't exist too, like with the other things that still didn't make it, and they quickly threw together 2 PVP instances.  If I was Cryptic and included such bear minimum at launch, I'd talk to the trolls too.  Anything just to keep a couple of subs around.  The developers are the only thing going for Cryptic atm.  The front office seems to be SOE reincarnated.

 

  Swoogie

Novice Member

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 402

3/05/10 11:24:42 AM#65
Originally posted by TUX426
Originally posted by Swoogie


 

I do know it is follow a free month. My dad, who was sorely dissapointed with NGE, went back and played. He liked it and though NGE really ticked him off.

If 90% of these SWG vets are so upset with the new crap in the game( Fairy wings, Halos, and Zombie Wookies(i think)) then and not NGE, then they need to stop whining like babies all the time. It gets annoying.

I dont play EQ becuase SoE handled it poorly after WoW came out but I dont go around the forums always whining about it. I just use it as a example when necessary. As Ive said in other threads, I went back to EQ a bit ago for a few months and it was lacking in many areas. Guess what? I dont play it and Im over it. Ill try it again in a year or something.

As for now, I went back to WoW and LotRO.

 

Well, that's great for your Dad mate, but please don't lump us all in as whiners, complainers or NGE haters just because he was.

I happen to enjoy discussing SWG tbh. It was a very fun game while it lasted...and it has some potential to be so again.

Like you, I'm free to express my dislike for the corny new crap they add just as anyone here is free to defend it. To me, this is an extreme lesson in poor management and the largest game failure I'll ever be a part of - it's fun to debate because it's happening NOW. Me expressing my opinions doesn't make me a "whiner"...it's my opinion, nothing more.

Complaining about what other people want to debate does tend to be whining IMO though.


You are entitled to your own opinion and I 100% agree with you that SWG has some new odd stuff that doesn't belong in the SW universe(or Sci-Fi). That is what should be discussed and people need to get over NGE and move on. That's all I'm saying and from you last post you seem to agree.

  TUX426

Inquisitor

Joined: 8/04/09
Posts: 1971

Always remember that you're unique. Just like everyone else.

3/05/10 1:07:25 PM#66
Originally posted by Swoogie
You are entitled to your own opinion and I 100% agree with you that SWG has some new odd stuff that doesn't belong in the SW universe(or Sci-Fi). That is what should be discussed and people need to get over NGE and move on. That's all I'm saying and from you last post you seem to agree.

 

But see, I don't think it's JUST the "NGE" that bothers people - I do agree with you that people need to get over it if THAT is their only hang-up...unfortunately, it's not JUST the NGE that SoE has going against it.

The list is long, my reply was longer, but I've erased all that to focus on what I disagree with you on.

The NGE can't be blamed for everything any longer...Just like Obama needs to stop blaming Bush for everything, SoE needs to take a long hard look at the crap they've added in the past few years and stop blaming the NGE "haters" for the games problems. It's not JUST the NGE. Spy, TCG, Buffs, Grinds, Lag...ALL contributing factors.

I hope I don't come off as confrontational, I certainly don't intend to. I am a life long DIE HARD Star Wars fanatic! I enjoy debating the game as it currently is because I honestly feel that not even a complete and utter moron could screw up Star Wars...SoE seems to have done what I truly feel is near f'ing impossible. Something I like to point out is that even Jar-Jar didn't ruin Star Wars...yet SoE can?! Tell me that's not impressive! ;)

 

  Swoogie

Novice Member

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 402

3/05/10 2:43:35 PM#67
Originally posted by TUX426
Originally posted by Swoogie
You are entitled to your own opinion and I 100% agree with you that SWG has some new odd stuff that doesn't belong in the SW universe(or Sci-Fi). That is what should be discussed and people need to get over NGE and move on. That's all I'm saying and from you last post you seem to agree.

 

But see, I don't think it's JUST the "NGE" that bothers people - I do agree with you that people need to get over it if THAT is their only hang-up...unfortunately, it's not JUST the NGE that SoE has going against it.

The list is long, my reply was longer, but I've erased all that to focus on what I disagree with you on.

The NGE can't be blamed for everything any longer...Just like Obama needs to stop blaming Bush for everything, SoE needs to take a long hard look at the crap they've added in the past few years and stop blaming the NGE "haters" for the games problems. It's not JUST the NGE. Spy, TCG, Buffs, Grinds, Lag...ALL contributing factors.

I hope I don't come off as confrontational, I certainly don't intend to. I am a life long DIE HARD Star Wars fanatic! I enjoy debating the game as it currently is because I honestly feel that not even a complete and utter moron could screw up Star Wars...SoE seems to have done what I truly feel is near f'ing impossible. Something I like to point out is that even Jar-Jar didn't ruin Star Wars...yet SoE can?! Tell me that's not impressive! ;)

 

Now we have reached a point that we agree rofl.This is why Im looking forward to seeing how SW:TOR turns out. I hope its not lvl up, raid, rinse and repeat. I hope it has some intense depth.
 

  Lesrach

Novice Member

Joined: 11/30/05
Posts: 115

3/05/10 3:03:20 PM#68

Used to play SWG pre CU and a bit after...

Do industry a service and try Darkfall... maybe Eve. Haven't played Eve myself but been in DF almost a year and this small company is really pushing out of the mainstream they need your support :) + it is closest to Old SWG i've seen in any game since CU. Though DF is lacking a lot of RP elements: custom clothing/armor, player housing is in preset area etc. But no instances, huge world, real thrill surviving in FFA world. Yes i've been killed hundreds of times but i haven't had my pulse up like this in years! Haard learning curve with gui but you'll master it eventually...

Indie companys hold MMORPG future atm.

  BCuse

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/12/05
Posts: 140

3/05/10 5:19:42 PM#69

I think what the industry should learn from SWG and the NGE experience is that a sandbox done right can be a big hit!  Most people i think would agree that SWG has never lived up to its potential.  Remember the old ad Experience the Greatest Saga Ever Told Yours!  I know you can please everyone but if SWG had ever been done to its potential the game would have been huge!  If sandboxes didnt work we wouldnt still be all pissed and talking about the NGE.  Just my opinion

  Darthconnor

Novice Member

Joined: 5/03/09
Posts: 59

3/06/10 8:41:49 PM#70
Originally posted by Troneas
Originally posted by TUX426
Originally posted by Shelby13

Housing, Crafting, Spaceflight, Player Economy, Sandbox, Roleplay, Non-Combat Classes... most MMO's barely touch 1 or 2 of these kinds of 'features'.


 

Interesting...the only things you listed were things the NGE didn't change (minus economy). Just pointing it out, don't read more into it than that :)


 

nonesense.

 

housing: mayor profession was freely given to everyone without the need to give up any skill points in other profession.

crafting: crafting professions were made reduntant as they shifted to a loot based economy. crafters fled. new and old items conflicted with each other. people lost millions of credits in useless items or finding themselves incapable of competing with other crafters who had the competitive advantage of surplus stock (eg bio tissues for chefs)

player economy: see above.

sanbox: quest lines such as the legacy quest took away the creative freedom to put a player on a path for over 50 levels. quests issued huge benefits in terms of XP compared to other means which meant the natural way was to follow to kashyyyk and then to mustafar. interdependacy and cooperation between profession ended (cooperation later reinstated), penalties were removed and skills were replaced by a linear class system. grouping was discouraged by an evident advantage in solo and/or questing XP gain.

non-combar classes: rendered useless due to the loot based economy and extermination of the interdependancy and the the ability to sell services.


 

I have to agree that once you add in the quest lines and the need to go to certain planets to follow a certain progression line you really destroy the sandbox feel the game had. I started playing SWg back in Aug 2004 and still play though not as much as i use to. Its still got open worlds and some freedom but most of what made SWG great has either been gotten rid of replaced or just dumbed down. Im not saying its totally junked out or that its not at times fun. I am saying the limits that it has now make it less interesting and less fun for me. The levels i could handle as i did when CU hit. Dont like them but i can live with it. I do feel it was the first stage in taking away the freedom of the playerbase and it made it so that ppl couldnt be both a combat player that made weapons or driods (whatever you want to craft).

With the nge came way to many and while some things have been added back or beefed up its still not what it once was. Perfect example is the old prof Creature handler and its new counterpart Beast master. While BM gives you the pet and controls its nowhere near as great as what CH use to be. Besides all its bugs and its limitedness by only working well with a few profs its expertise isnt and never has been in the greatest shape.

Still ok game but most of what made it a great sandbox is lost and wont come back to SWG and beginning to think it wont ever be recreated elsewhere.

  Azureal

Novice Member

Joined: 9/26/06
Posts: 242

3/06/10 8:48:09 PM#71
Originally posted by Daffid011

There are so many messages being sent about SWG that I don't think the truth will be realized by most developers.

Yes, SWG is sending out a giant message to other developers that sandbox cannot be successful, but for all the wrong reasons.  How can a game screw up with the Star Wars name attached to it?  Everyone is going to blame it on the design and not the shitty mismanagement that crippled the potential.  That is what most will extract from the history of swg.  It doesn't help that smedly is running his mouth about how sandbox games can't be successful. 

Nothing is going to change the history of swg.  It was an incomplete game at release and the developer ignored the problems in favor of creating expansions which they could sell.  We all know the story and is set in stone.

 

However, even if subscriber numbers surged right now, it would not send a message that sandbox games can be successful.  It will send the message that players will any eat shit thrown at them, that content can be stripped and sold as virtual loot cards, that removing sandbox features and replacing them with theme park features can work. 

 

In the end it is much harder to create a decent sandbox game and there are dew designers talented enough to pull it off, so I don't think we will see much of sandbox anymore to be honest.

 

If you really want to send a message, go subscribe to fallen earth or one of the other new sandbox games.

 


 

Fallen Earth IS NOT a sandbox. Its a level progressive MMO. Once youve outlevelled one area, you move on with no reason to ever go back.

 

 

 

 

PAST: UO-SWG-DAOC-WOW-DDO-VG-AOC-WAR-FE-DFO-LOTRO-RIFT-GW2
PRESENT: Nothing
FUTURE: ESO

  Darthconnor

Novice Member

Joined: 5/03/09
Posts: 59

3/06/10 9:04:02 PM#72
Originally posted by Tacola
Originally posted by Troneas
Originally posted by TUX426
Originally posted by Shelby13

Housing, Crafting, Spaceflight, Player Economy, Sandbox, Roleplay, Non-Combat Classes... most MMO's barely touch 1 or 2 of these kinds of 'features'.


 

Interesting...the only things you listed were things the NGE didn't change (minus economy). Just pointing it out, don't read more into it than that :)


 

nonesense.

 

housing: mayor profession was freely given to everyone without the need to give up any skill points in other profession.

crafting: crafting professions were made reduntant as they shifted to a loot based economy. crafters fled. new and old items conflicted with each other. people lost millions of credits in useless items or finding themselves incapable of competing with other crafters who had the competitive advantage of surplus stock (eg bio tissues for chefs)

player economy: see above.

sanbox: quest lines such as the legacy quest took away the creative freedom to put a player on a path for over 50 levels. quests issued huge benefits in terms of XP compared to other means which meant the natural way was to follow to kashyyyk and then to mustafar. interdependacy and cooperation between profession ended (cooperation later reinstated), penalties were removed and skills were replaced by a linear class system. grouping was discouraged by an evident advantage in solo and/or questing XP gain.

non-combar classes: rendered useless due to the loot based economy and extermination of the interdependancy and the the ability to sell services.

Yes, SWG has changed alot since the NGE bomb hit.   It isn't a loot based economy now.  Some loot items are very nice and sell for lots because of their rarity. 

But, as a chef and tailor and returning disgruntled vet (stayed for CU, but left for NGE), I sell food and I make custom SEAs using RE for people every time I log in. Being able to make additives now is the biggest change since NGE for chefs.  No longer are the chef's who stockpiled additives able to rule the market alone. People ask for my services as I do other from crafters in other area's.  

Crafters make money now that is for sure =).  And of course there is no game that comes close to SWG in the crafting methods, experimentation, Resources stats, factory runs. 

Crafters being needed now is a good change for the post-NGE era.  I think I was madder about the crafter stuff than the fact I did the jedi grind and now you can start jedi!!   Of course you cant get a lightsaber until lvl30 or so.

But, to the op's point.  Quiting in mass showed SOE that what they did to change the entire combat structure was not a good idea.   It is not a sandbox game anymore than WoW is now.  But I am sure judging for what I saw when I quit amonth or so after NGE , SWG is doing alot better.  The server merges were long over due. So, at this point not playing is pointless, when really it is probably one of the best existing MMO's out there right now.   Not playing is only keeping you from potentially enjoying the game.

This from a pre-cu, pre-nge vet who canceled his account because of NGE and now on his second return to the game likes it. 

 PS: I did have to move from Corbantis, it is no more  /salute Corbantis.   Now on starsider and bloodfin now.

Have to disagree here as some crafters still have good business while others are sadly not used more then a few times per customer. My friend is a Armorsmith Weaponsmith while im DE cybernetics(i guess i need to add cybernetics now). While my firend still does business its not much repeat unless Its for a person changing professions or that has gotten a new scheme from heroics or GCW. Few new customers return as armor and weapons dont wear out. As for me Cybernetics dont sell worth a crap as the demand isnt there and the few that do buy only need to do so once. Driods sell every now and again but not many need them or atleast dont need more then a few if more then just one.

  SnarlingWolf

Novice Member

Joined: 6/23/09
Posts: 2728

3/06/10 9:15:32 PM#73
Originally posted by Esquire1980

I tried STO.  Wanted to like that game, waited on it, bought a lifetime hoping that it could CHANGE.  But, sadly, I asked for my lifetime to be refunded last Monday.  Pew, pew, pew, no crafting, no housing, no interiors, small worlds, highly instanced, no open anything, a loading screen every 30 seconds, no end game not even a WoW raid in at launch.  Did I mention highly instanced?  All it did was show me what I missed about SWG.  There are even forum threads over there about SWG in comparison to STO in which (forgive me), I took up for SWG against the not even to WoW standards of STO development.

Let me premise this by saying, I doubt if anyone here has been as vocal against SOE for The Chapter 6 Combat downgrade and GU-Whatever "mini" NGE that was perpatrated against even the NGE playerbase.  CHANGEING the game for a 3rd time to try and draw a playerbase, that they didn't have, and only existed in the minds of SOE.  I understand the long-term , even hatred, of SOE due to CU/NGE and have held a little of that, myself, for the CHANGES I brought above.  I've even gave Fisher static for "enableing SOE" by retaining his sub.

However, as we tell the truth about how SOE mismanaged SWG, have we have taught the industry, appearantly, to stay away from sandbox MMOs in their entirity.  A MMORPG.com writer just said that sandbox MMOs may be dead as far as a AAA studio producing another one.  He did say that there might be a independant studio or 2 out there for sandbox, tho.  With an independant studio, there is always cost as a factor.  In the world we now live in for investors, would they even be able to finance a sandbox MMO now?

My 64 dollar question is;  by boycotting SWG, even in it's current CHANGED state, are we screaming to industry research that the great experiment that Koster made is gone and failed?  Are we telling the industry that there is no market for a sandbox MMO to be tried again?  After all, we all pretty much know that the sub numbers for SWG current is rather dismal and some here, myself included, have taken satisfaction in some of that.  How can another AAA studio even contemplate making another sandbox with the only real sandbox out there in such bad shape?

Meanwhile, all we get for new games is yet another game in the WoW mold and not even as diverse as that with the one I mentioned 1st.  Level up, pew, pew, pew, get an alt and do it all over again, this time with the same content you did before.  At least WoW has other storylines in which to level.  The new games, AoC, War, STO, CO, most do not even have that.  It seems to me that new game development is getting worse, not better.  They all want WoW but they are on the cheap so bad that they put in the bare minimum and launch.  Hopeing for the big bucks to come out of the box sales and worry about fixing the mess, later.

In short, Are we cutting off our own noses to spite our own faces?

First off there has never been a gaming boycott, ever. There has occasionally been a couple people that have tried to boycott different games but they literally always amount to a couple people. I'm getting a little tired of hearing the word boycott on topics it does not apply to (MW2 on the PC, L4D 2).
 

 

But here is the amazing truth for you. Your first paragraph is what is wrong with the industry. You bought a lifetime sub to a terrible game. First reasearch a game before ever even thinking of trying it. You would have found out exactly what it is that makes you hate this game, that will help them make better games when people don't even pick them up.

Second don't ever preorder a game, now luckily in this case it doesn't sound like you did.

 

Lastly never buy a lifetime subscription without having played the game for 2-3 full months first so that you are 100% sure of both what the game is and what they plan on doing with it.

 

Literally the reason for bad games coming out is people like you. Throwing money for a lifetime sub at a game you don't know enough about yet. People need to stop throwing money at games without researching them. You know the last time I spent money on a game that I regretted? Years ago, because I always research a game before trying it, it's easy to tell what to avoid 100% and what to wait for a free trial to try.

  Daffid011

Old School

Joined: 1/03/04
Posts: 7652

3/06/10 10:41:54 PM#74
Originally posted by Azureal 


 

Fallen Earth IS NOT a sandbox. Its a level progressive MMO. Once youve outlevelled one area, you move on with no reason to ever go back.


If there is pve content and character progression there are going to be steps if difficulty in areas of the world.  Once a character progresses past their character past an area the same thing happens.   Having levels or not doesn't really change much about that.

Thats just my impression from beta. 

  Daffid011

Old School

Joined: 1/03/04
Posts: 7652

3/06/10 10:49:47 PM#75
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf 

First off there has never been a gaming boycott, ever. There has occasionally been a couple people that have tried to boycott different games but they literally always amount to a couple people.


Actually the GUComics boycott of the Omens of War expansion was rather effective.  It forced SOE to delay the expansion, fly 50 or so high profile players to their headquarter to have the "guild summit" in which the devs sat down with the players to hear their concerns.

Otherwise I think you are correct. 

  Esquire1980

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/12/07
Posts: 530

 
OP  3/07/10 11:21:41 AM#76
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Originally posted by Esquire1980

I tried STO.  Wanted to like that game, waited on it, bought a lifetime hoping that it could CHANGE.  But, sadly, I asked for my lifetime to be refunded last Monday.  Pew, pew, pew, no crafting, no housing, no interiors, small worlds, highly instanced, no open anything, a loading screen every 30 seconds, no end game not even a WoW raid in at launch.  Did I mention highly instanced?  All it did was show me what I missed about SWG.  There are even forum threads over there about SWG in comparison to STO in which (forgive me), I took up for SWG against the not even to WoW standards of STO development.

Let me premise this by saying, I doubt if anyone here has been as vocal against SOE for The Chapter 6 Combat downgrade and GU-Whatever "mini" NGE that was perpatrated against even the NGE playerbase.  CHANGEING the game for a 3rd time to try and draw a playerbase, that they didn't have, and only existed in the minds of SOE.  I understand the long-term , even hatred, of SOE due to CU/NGE and have held a little of that, myself, for the CHANGES I brought above.  I've even gave Fisher static for "enableing SOE" by retaining his sub.

However, as we tell the truth about how SOE mismanaged SWG, have we have taught the industry, appearantly, to stay away from sandbox MMOs in their entirity.  A MMORPG.com writer just said that sandbox MMOs may be dead as far as a AAA studio producing another one.  He did say that there might be a independant studio or 2 out there for sandbox, tho.  With an independant studio, there is always cost as a factor.  In the world we now live in for investors, would they even be able to finance a sandbox MMO now?

My 64 dollar question is;  by boycotting SWG, even in it's current CHANGED state, are we screaming to industry research that the great experiment that Koster made is gone and failed?  Are we telling the industry that there is no market for a sandbox MMO to be tried again?  After all, we all pretty much know that the sub numbers for SWG current is rather dismal and some here, myself included, have taken satisfaction in some of that.  How can another AAA studio even contemplate making another sandbox with the only real sandbox out there in such bad shape?

Meanwhile, all we get for new games is yet another game in the WoW mold and not even as diverse as that with the one I mentioned 1st.  Level up, pew, pew, pew, get an alt and do it all over again, this time with the same content you did before.  At least WoW has other storylines in which to level.  The new games, AoC, War, STO, CO, most do not even have that.  It seems to me that new game development is getting worse, not better.  They all want WoW but they are on the cheap so bad that they put in the bare minimum and launch.  Hopeing for the big bucks to come out of the box sales and worry about fixing the mess, later.

In short, Are we cutting off our own noses to spite our own faces?

First off there has never been a gaming boycott, ever. There has occasionally been a couple people that have tried to boycott different games but they literally always amount to a couple people. I'm getting a little tired of hearing the word boycott on topics it does not apply to (MW2 on the PC, L4D 2).
 

 

But here is the amazing truth for you. Your first paragraph is what is wrong with the industry. You bought a lifetime sub to a terrible game. First reasearch a game before ever even thinking of trying it. You would have found out exactly what it is that makes you hate this game, that will help them make better games when people don't even pick them up.

Second don't ever preorder a game, now luckily in this case it doesn't sound like you did.

 

Lastly never buy a lifetime subscription without having played the game for 2-3 full months first so that you are 100% sure of both what the game is and what they plan on doing with it.

 

Literally the reason for bad games coming out is people like you. Throwing money for a lifetime sub at a game you don't know enough about yet. People need to stop throwing money at games without researching them. You know the last time I spent money on a game that I regretted? Years ago, because I always research a game before trying it, it's easy to tell what to avoid 100% and what to wait for a free trial to try.


 

The only "boycott" is basicly an informal one to be sure.  More of a personal decision to say the least.  SOE "screwed" our game, so we refuse to give them the 2nd chance, ever!  It's been said here, time and time again, by me, even.

I now agree with you 100% on lifetimes and blind faith that games will "come around".  In my defence, I really wanted ST:O to work and give me that old SWG feeling I once had getting to know that game.  Sadly, I just don't believe that game developers, from any studio, will ever accomplish that again.  If it's laziness or money problems, they are not even making the attempt anylonger.  It's all cut down, cheap, versions of WoW which seem to fail as fast as they can put them out.

  User Deleted
3/07/10 11:30:50 AM#77

To the question the title poses, no, you arnt doing anyone a service or a disservice. In your little corner of the world you are crusading to bring the evil doer to his knees and in reality only succeed in fueling your own fruitless hatred. I guess everyone needs something to live for but most choose something a little more productive.

  someforumguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 3477

3/07/10 11:32:00 AM#78
Originally posted by Esquire1980

I tried STO.  Wanted to like that game, waited on it, bought a lifetime hoping that it could CHANGE.  But, sadly, I asked for my lifetime to be refunded last Monday.  Pew, pew, pew, no crafting, no housing, no interiors, small worlds, highly instanced, no open anything, a loading screen every 30 seconds, no end game not even a WoW raid in at launch.  Did I mention highly instanced?  All it did was show me what I missed about SWG.

 

How is it possible that you expected those kind of features in STO? Dont you read about a game before getting a lifetime sub? Oo

If you are looking for a skillsystem, check Fallen Earth. If you are looking for the other features of SWG, check SWG..its still there with more stuff added even. Even the bugs are still there :/

  Daffid011

Old School

Joined: 1/03/04
Posts: 7652

3/07/10 6:20:47 PM#79
Originally posted by MavisP

To the question the title poses, no, you arnt doing anyone a service or a disservice. In your little corner of the world you are crusading to bring the evil doer to his knees and in reality only succeed in fueling your own fruitless hatred. I guess everyone needs something to live for but most choose something a little more productive.

 

Always about the people with the issue isn't it?

  Esquire1980

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/12/07
Posts: 530

 
OP  3/08/10 11:12:06 AM#80
Originally posted by someforumguy
Originally posted by Esquire1980

I tried STO.  Wanted to like that game, waited on it, bought a lifetime hoping that it could CHANGE.  But, sadly, I asked for my lifetime to be refunded last Monday.  Pew, pew, pew, no crafting, no housing, no interiors, small worlds, highly instanced, no open anything, a loading screen every 30 seconds, no end game not even a WoW raid in at launch.  Did I mention highly instanced?  All it did was show me what I missed about SWG.

 

How is it possible that you expected those kind of features in STO? Dont you read about a game before getting a lifetime sub? Oo

If you are looking for a skillsystem, check Fallen Earth. If you are looking for the other features of SWG, check SWG..its still there with more stuff added even. Even the bugs are still there :/


 

Due the simple fact they kept saying some of those features would be in.  Ship Interiors, guild ship yards, guild space stations, crafting to the point of shipyards, no star fleet admirals standing around headquarters with ? marks over their heads, etc etc etc.

Then the Atari sale came along and it appears the entire vision CHANGED.  The lead dev just did an interview and said something to the effect of, "We made a game, not a simulator".  Even Koster called WoW a virtual world with game's in it.  Maybe that's why WoW still gains subs and STO is leaching subs.  Who knows?

I could always deal with the bugs in SWG.  Work-arounds, etc.   The game systems were so many I guess, bugs didn't ruin the experience all that much.  Would have been nicer if they were gone, but they were just not that game breaking for me, at least.

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