Mike Fahey over at Kotaku has made an interesting observation on World of Warcraft: the game has had 11.5M subscribers since 2008, has World of Warcraft peaked?

Image Credit: Kotaku

Blizzard President Mike Morhaime discussed World of Warcraft's stability during today's 2009 calendar year investor call, noting that the game has around 11.5 million subscribers, which is "about on par with last time we announced."

The last time they announced their subscriber numbers was in December of 2008, and despite the release of Wrath of the Lich King last fall, subscriber numbers have apparently remained the same.

So, I ask you then, has WoW peaked? If so, why do you think that is? Let us know in the comments below.

Via Kotaku.

 Damn, I hope it's peaked and all the people that only know MMORPGs by the name of WoW get bored and leave so we can get some quality hardcore MMOs out.

It's not that I'm sick of themeparks (Vanguard proved to me that I can enjoy themeparks), I'm just sick of easy games.

Really, God knows how many people bought consoles for the sole purpose of playing Guitar Hero and its likenesses only to get bored a few months later and never touch the console again.

What about the Wii and its craze everytime the new line of "Wii yada yada" comes out? They don't stick to those games...

WoW has to die out at some point.

All depends on the next expansion, if  its somehow fresh and a good improvement then many players might return and the number raises again. If its just the same old stuff... WoW may have peaked.

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Originally posted by johnmatthais

 

 Damn, I hope it's peaked and all the people that only know MMORPGs by the name of WoW get bored and leave so we can get some quality hardcore MMOs out.

WoW has to die out at some point.

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1st point, the kind of people who play WoW, most of them do not want nor will lay "hardcore" MMOs. Totally different type of players. Sadly companies keep trying to hit all demographics and fail, because they cannot figure out how to blend them.

2nd point, WoW will not die for many, many, many more years. Unless of course Cataclysm tanks. I see it continuing at least for another 5+ years. The only thing that will kill WoW, is WoW itself, or another Blizzard MMO.

I do not see how they go any higher they must be close to the ceiling for total possible subs as it is now.  But the key number is not the 11.5 million subscribers but rather their 4-5 million NA and European subscribers.  There is no other game that has more than 2-300k total western subs.  I would think it would be impossible to get any higher than 5 million as that is close to the total number of NA and Europeans subscribed to all MMOs.  In effect they really cannot go much higher other by taking WoW to other markets.  I suppose they could go slightly higher with Cataclysm but they are pushing the MMO ceiling as it is right now.  I am guessing they are more concerned with maintaining as many of their current subs now rather than going any higher.

If you go by those numbers and trust their information then no, wow hasnt peaked. They have as many subscriptions now, as they had right before the WoTLK expansion, or right after, - numbers heavily influenced by the release of an expansion which both brought new players and made old resubscribe. 

If they now, before Cataclysm has really reclaimed old subs or brought in new blood, are at the same subscription number as they were with WoTLK's release, logic dictates the influx of players with the next expansion will raise that number significantly yet again. Wether it will then take a plunge depending on how well the expansion delivers is another matter.

I dont think you can really talk about a limit on subs available to any given mmo, because of the influx of new gamers. Certainly mmos have become more visible in mainstream perception of entertainment, and this leads to a continious stream of new subscriptions. I dont see that many mmo's dressing up William Shatner or Mr. T for primetime tv adverts, so for many entering this line of entertainment, there really only is WOW untill they become more savy and know where to look for the the products.

Blizzard never treated wow like a niche product. They have brazenly behaved like they were dealing with a mainstream popular piece of entertainment and brought it into the mainstream in a way no other MMO has done. Its garanteed to bring them subscribers for as long as they bother making their product more visible to the new gamer than any other mmo out there.

I never really believed in those numbers in first place.

But after all the trouble in little China, i absolutely can't believe that the subs did not go down bigtime but are the same as last year.

Originally posted by spyder2k5

1st point, the kind of people who play WoW, most of them do not want nor will lay "hardcore" MMOs. Totally different type of players. Sadly companies keep trying to hit all demographics and fail, because they cannot figure out how to blend them.

I totally covered that in the rest of the post that you cut out...

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Originally posted by johnmatthais

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Originally posted by spyder2k5

1st point, the kind of people who play WoW, most of them do not want nor will lay "hardcore" MMOs. Totally different type of players. Sadly companies keep trying to hit all demographics and fail, because they cannot figure out how to blend them.

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I totally covered that in the rest of the post that you cut out...

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Originally posted by spyder2k5

 

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Originally posted by johnmatthais

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Originally posted by spyder2k5

1st point, the kind of people who play WoW, most of them do not want nor will lay "hardcore" MMOs. Totally different type of players. Sadly companies keep trying to hit all demographics and fail, because they cannot figure out how to blend them.

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I totally covered that in the rest of the post that you cut out...

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No you mentioned easy MMOs, what you find easy not everyone will, what you find hardcore, not everyone will. Thus what I am saying is they have yet to learn to implement a difficulty setting and gear the game around that. Give the player the option type things.

 

Really? This:

"Really, God knows how many people bought consoles for the sole purpose of playing Guitar Hero and its likenesses only to get bored a few months later and never touch the console again.

What about the Wii and its craze everytime the new line of "Wii yada yada" comes out? They don't stick to those games..."

Didn't cover what I think of those people?

Originally posted by johnmatthais

Originally posted by spyder2k5

 

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Originally posted by johnmatthais

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Originally posted by spyder2k5

1st point, the kind of people who play WoW, most of them do not want nor will lay "hardcore" MMOs. Totally different type of players. Sadly companies keep trying to hit all demographics and fail, because they cannot figure out how to blend them.

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I totally covered that in the rest of the post that you cut out...

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No you mentioned easy MMOs, what you find easy not everyone will, what you find hardcore, not everyone will. Thus what I am saying is they have yet to learn to implement a difficulty setting and gear the game around that. Give the player the option type things.

 

Really? This:

"Really, God knows how many people bought consoles for the sole purpose of playing Guitar Hero and its likenesses only to get bored a few months later and never touch the console again.

What about the Wii and its craze everytime the new line of "Wii yada yada" comes out? They don't stick to those games..."

Didn't cover what I think of those people?

 

Covers what you think of people that buy console games, not MMOs, and further that is not what the topic or my reply is even about.

The topic is on MMOs, specifically WoW, and how you automatically think you like "hardcore" MMOs which is just an opinion of itself. Which is furthered by you thinking the average WoW player would like the "hardcore" MMO you would. So honestly, drop the attitude. All of what you say is opinion based on opinion.

We are talking about a game with 11.5 million scubscrubers peaking? If they lost 10.5 million subscribers they would still be top dog. How sad is that?

(that is not a knock on WoW. Its a knock on all the rest of the joke MMOs that can't even garner a tenth of the WoW subscription numbers)

Originally posted by brostyn

We are talking about a game with 11.5 million scubscrubers peaking? If they lost 10.5 million subscribers they would still be top dog. How sad is that?

 

(that is not a knock on WoW. Its a knock on all the rest of the joke MMOs that can't even garner a tenth of the WoW subscription numbers)

That is due to several reasons most being that all are just trying to milk money from people, rush the products and care nothing about their players. The other reasons include the fact that content does not get enough updates, and players expect games to come with out with just as much as WoW these days which is not possible, all the way to developers just not giving any content to their players anymore.

Other reason and a good one is there is just not enough willing to pay for the new ones or even move on from what they know.

The only game holding steady beyond WoW, is LoTRO and it gives away a TON of free content updates, but because of the IP and lack of real PvP it hits a smaller demographic.

Originally posted by brostyn

We are talking about a game with 11.5 million scubscrubers peaking? If they lost 10.5 million subscribers they would still be top dog. How sad is that?

 

(that is not a knock on WoW. Its a knock on all the rest of the joke MMOs that can't even garner a tenth of the WoW subscription numbers)

Pretty much. It's not that WoW is failing or anything, it's just that Blizzard most likely simply cannot attract more people given how many are already playing their game. Casual and hardcore markets have already been tapped practically to their maximum... what players are there left to attract?

11.5 mil is an impressive number any way you look at it.

As others have stated the real question is how the China "incident" plays into that figure if at all.

Originally posted by spyder2k5

 

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Originally posted by johnmatthais

 

 Damn, I hope it's peaked and all the people that only know MMORPGs by the name of WoW get bored and leave so we can get some quality hardcore MMOs out.

WoW has to die out at some point.

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1st point, the kind of people who play WoW, most of them do not want nor will lay "hardcore" MMOs. Totally different type of players. Sadly companies keep trying to hit all demographics and fail, because they cannot figure out how to blend them.

2nd point, WoW will not die for many, many, many more years. Unless of course Cataclysm tanks. I see it continuing at least for another 5+ years. The only thing that will kill WoW, is WoW itself, or another Blizzard MMO.

I started playing wow back in the family and friends beta. Before that I had played EQ1 for 4 years, and did so in a high end raiding guild on a pvp server. By any standard EQ1 was hardcore. It was a sandbox game with severe death penalty, and demanded quite a lot of the player compared to, todays addon driven -youneednoawareness- WOW.

I play wow because Its fun too. But mostly, I play it because no other game out atm, apart from outdated old games can live up to my expectations and Ive tried almost all of them. I play EVE on the side, but I go absolutely ballistic at this point when I try a new game and have it be an unfinished, bug riddled, support lacking, Bot/exploit infested piece of S... and then see forums floaded with excuses for it. Im too old for that BS. If it isnt a solid product Im not paying for it. And right now Im severely challenged to find any mmo apart from wow and EVE that delivers on its promises.

PS: Im not putting down Lotro (I kinda lob it in there with wow. Its solid, I just never got the thing with the hobits and the flaming eye)

And WAR, AOC, AION and the likes are travesties that but for the fact that they present virtual entertainment, would have been taken to the cleaners for the crap they are/were. These and others are what makes WOW such a success. Not just what WOW is on its own merit, but how amasing it shines next to the piles of dung other companies fling at us.

I had hoped these types of posts had peaked, but they seem to still be on the rise.

Originally posted by Nilenya

Originally posted by spyder2k5

 

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Originally posted by johnmatthais

 

 Damn, I hope it's peaked and all the people that only know MMORPGs by the name of WoW get bored and leave so we can get some quality hardcore MMOs out.

WoW has to die out at some point.

---

 

 

1st point, the kind of people who play WoW, most of them do not want nor will lay "hardcore" MMOs. Totally different type of players. Sadly companies keep trying to hit all demographics and fail, because they cannot figure out how to blend them.

2nd point, WoW will not die for many, many, many more years. Unless of course Cataclysm tanks. I see it continuing at least for another 5+ years. The only thing that will kill WoW, is WoW itself, or another Blizzard MMO.

 

I started playing wow back in the family and friends beta. Before that I had played EQ1 for 4 years, and did so in a high end raiding guild on a pvp server. By any standard EQ1 was hardcore. It was a sandbox game with severe death penalty, and demanded quite a lot of the player compared to, todays addon driven -youneednoawareness- WOW.

I play wow because Its fun too. But mostly, I play it because no other game out atm, apart from outdated old games can live up to my expectations and Ive tried almost all of them. I play EVE on the side, but I go absolutely ballistic at this point when I try a new game and have it be an unfinished, bug riddled, support lacking, Bot/exploit infested piece of S... and then see forums floaded with excuses for it. Im too old for that BS. If it isnt a solid product Im not paying for it. And right now Im severely challenged to find any mmo apart from wow and EVE that delivers on its promises.

PS: Im not putting down Lotro (I kinda lob it in there with wow. Its solid, I just never got the thing with the hobits and the flaming eye)

And WAR, AOC, AION and the likes are travesties that but for the fact that they present virtual entertainment, would have been taken to the cleaners for the crap they are/were. These and others are what makes WOW such a success. Not just what WOW is on its own merit, but how amasing it shines next to the piles of dung other companies fling at us.

I am the same with WoW, but I love WAR because that be all means is what PvP should be like, gear obtainable, leveling possible by PvP and balanced. LoTRO is good if you play with friends, I play it off and on. But it is a taste thing.

Originally posted by spyder2k5

Covers what you think of people that buy console games, not MMOs, and further that is not what the topic or my reply is even about.

The topic is on MMOs, specifically WoW, and how you automatically think you like "hardcore" MMOs which is just an opinion of itself. Which is furthered by you thinking the average WoW player would like the "hardcore" MMO you would. So honestly, drop the attitude. All of what you say is opinion based on opinion.

*facepalm*

I was trying to stress that non-gamers need to stop encouraging big name companies to create games for non-gamers. WoW is one of those that seems to slowly be catering more and more towards the non-gamers.

I like to think WoW as a roller-coaster with the steepest hill ever imagined. The towering monstrosity rises into the clouds, but rather than making it to the top, you keep climbing and climbing. I think people are just tired of waiting to reach the top. They want to hit the top so they can ride it down, get off and find another ride. When you finally get off, you can say without a doubt "That was the greatest ride ever." and be satisfied.

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Originally posted by johnmatthais

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Originally posted by spyder2k5

Covers what you think of people that buy console games, not MMOs, and further that is not what the topic or my reply is even about.
The topic is on MMOs, specifically WoW, and how you automatically think you like "hardcore" MMOs which is just an opinion of itself. Which is furthered by you thinking the average WoW player would like the "hardcore" MMO you would. So honestly, drop the attitude. All of what you say is opinion based on opinion.

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*facepalm*
I was trying to stress that non-gamers need to stop encouraging big name companies to create games for non-gamers. WoW is one of those that seems to slowly be catering more and more towards the non-gamers.

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Exactly, *facepalm*
Just because people only play a certain genre, be it Solitaire, Pogo, or pong, all the way to bowling on the Wii. That makes them no less a gamer or a customer then anyone else that plays any other game. They are what we call Casual gamers. They are still gamers. Once again stop voicing opinions as opinions as facts and thinking all people want to play games you play or think the way you do and expect all games to be centered around one group of people. WoW caters to the Casual hardcore crowd, they have elements for both yet is easy enough for anyone but technical enough for most.

You find stat grinding and death penalties and other things of the sort fun, they find talking to other people, doing an instance with friends and quests fun. Both are gamers, both like different things, and thus play different games. Stop calling casuals "non-gamers"

Originally posted by spyder2k5

Originally posted by Nilenya

Originally posted by spyder2k5

 

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Originally posted by johnmatthais

 

 Damn, I hope it's peaked and all the people that only know MMORPGs by the name of WoW get bored and leave so we can get some quality hardcore MMOs out.

WoW has to die out at some point.

---

 

 

1st point, the kind of people who play WoW, most of them do not want nor will lay "hardcore" MMOs. Totally different type of players. Sadly companies keep trying to hit all demographics and fail, because they cannot figure out how to blend them.

2nd point, WoW will not die for many, many, many more years. Unless of course Cataclysm tanks. I see it continuing at least for another 5+ years. The only thing that will kill WoW, is WoW itself, or another Blizzard MMO.

 

I started playing wow back in the family and friends beta. Before that I had played EQ1 for 4 years, and did so in a high end raiding guild on a pvp server. By any standard EQ1 was hardcore. It was a sandbox game with severe death penalty, and demanded quite a lot of the player compared to, todays addon driven -youneednoawareness- WOW.

I play wow because Its fun too. But mostly, I play it because no other game out atm, apart from outdated old games can live up to my expectations and Ive tried almost all of them. I play EVE on the side, but I go absolutely ballistic at this point when I try a new game and have it be an unfinished, bug riddled, support lacking, Bot/exploit infested piece of S... and then see forums floaded with excuses for it. Im too old for that BS. If it isnt a solid product Im not paying for it. And right now Im severely challenged to find any mmo apart from wow and EVE that delivers on its promises.

PS: Im not putting down Lotro (I kinda lob it in there with wow. Its solid, I just never got the thing with the hobits and the flaming eye)

And WAR, AOC, AION and the likes are travesties that but for the fact that they present virtual entertainment, would have been taken to the cleaners for the crap they are/were. These and others are what makes WOW such a success. Not just what WOW is on its own merit, but how amasing it shines next to the piles of dung other companies fling at us.

 

I am the same with WoW, but I love WAR because that be all means is what PvP should be like, gear obtainable, leveling possible by PvP and balanced. LoTRO is good if you play with friends, I play it off and on. But it is a taste thing.

you should give DAoC a try if you think WAR RvR is good, Mythics previous game is much better.

Originally posted by spyder2k5

You find stat grinding and death penalties and other things of the sort fun, they find talking to other people, doing an instance with friends and quests fun. Both are gamers, both like different things, and thus play different games. Stop calling casuals "non-gamers"

Right, well, these same people, being the vast majority that doesn't want to spend any time on a game or spend any thought on it, but will still pay for it (out of 11 mil people, you can't seriously think more than half of them are doing more than logging in, doing dailies and logging out as soon as they hit the level cap) are the reason that the, what I'm going to call, "core gamers" are getting half-assed games like Mortal.

It used to be fact that core gamers ruled the market and investors invested in what made the core gamers happy.Now it's all about making it as simple as possible so people can spend a half an hour more of their time getting in and out so they can experience it without actually experiencing it.

Unfortunately, because of this, as soon as the behemoth dies, the genre dies. Those 11 mil aren't just going to scatter to the next best thing. They're casuals. They're out as fast, if not faster, than they got in.

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Originally posted by johnmatthais

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Originally posted by spyder2k5

You find stat grinding and death penalties and other things of the sort fun, they find talking to other people, doing an instance with friends and quests fun. Both are gamers, both like different things, and thus play different games. Stop calling casuals "non-gamers"

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Right, well, these same people, being the vast majority that doesn't want to spend any time on a game or spend any thought on it, but will still pay for it (out of 11 mil people, you can't seriously think more than half of them are doing more than logging in, doing dailies and logging out as soon as they hit the level cap) are the reason that the, what I'm going to call, "core gamers" are getting half-assed games like Mortal.
It used to be fact that core gamers ruled the market and investors invested in what made the core gamers happy.Now it's all about making it as simple as possible so people can spend a half an hour more of their time getting in and out so they can experience it without actually experiencing it.
Unfortunately, because of this, as soon as the behemoth dies, the genre dies. Those 11 mil aren't just going to scatter to the next best thing. They're casuals. They're out as fast, if not faster, than they got in.

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Honestly, I don't blame the consumer as much as I do the producers and companies. The market is so over-saturated with MMORPGs these days it's hard to create anything good. Instead you have small MMORPGs made by small companies trying to carve out their own niche and what you end up with is a bunch of people who have no idea what they really want so they take it out on the other players.

With the Chinese servers being down how can WoW peak ? If anything it lost alot of subs because of what is happening in China not to mention the fact that the game is old, people leave for newer games and WoW is no exception.