Over the past few days I've had quite serious cravings for Vanguard again.

To play I'd have to download the entire client again and all that.

I've said in some other threads recently that the reason I'm not playing is because I don't have faith that the game will last.

Someone either stop me or tell me that it's worth the time investment. 

It is worth the time, it's worth the long installation and then defragmentation.

Even if the game will close down in half a year or 3 years or 10 years. What matters is the time spent, and how well is it spent. I'm enjoying every minute in Vanguard.

Originally posted by Hoobley

Over the past few days I've had quite serious cravings for Vanguard again.

 

To play I'd have to download the entire client again and all that.

 

I've said in some other threads recently that the reason I'm not playing is because I don't have faith that the game will last.

 

Someone either stop me or tell me that it's worth the time investment. 

 <Slaps Hoobley> Wake up man! Don't do it Vanguard is Dead! Dead I say! Why waste your time and effoert on a Barren lifeless wasteland built by a drug seeking egomanic, and kept alive only through a few poor deluded fools claiming to be hardcaore old schoolers and the good graces of Sonys station pass.

  Vanguard has sucked since release. Looking at the retention numbers its safe to say 90% of thosr that tried VG hated it. and its been simply cicrling the drain for months. Don't waste your time, really you deserve better for your money/time and can do better. If you really want a barren MMO look for a good single player as you'll run into just about as many players in either these days

Originally posted by winter

Originally posted by Hoobley

Over the past few days I've had quite serious cravings for Vanguard again.

 

To play I'd have to download the entire client again and all that.

 

I've said in some other threads recently that the reason I'm not playing is because I don't have faith that the game will last.

 

Someone either stop me or tell me that it's worth the time investment. 

 

   Vanguard has sucked since release. Looking at the retention numbers its safe to say 90% of thosr that tried VG hated it.

Everybody keep bringing up the retention crap. What a NONSENSE.
 

Go to xfire.

Aion has lost retention around 80% after a few months. (from peak 80k hours played to around 17k now). Xfire shows trends, and shows it quite accurately.

• Age of Conan lost 90%
• WAR 95%
• Lotro 85%
• DDO 95%

etc

Name me a game other than WoW/EVE that would retain even 50% of its customers since release. THERE IS NONE.

Vanguard sold barely around 200.000 copies worldwide during first months of release. Age of Conan, WAR, Aion, Lotro,.. all sold over 500 - 1k milion. Talking about retention? Get your facts right first.

Originally posted by Thillian

Everybody keep bringing up the retention crap. What a NONSENSE.
 

Go to xfire.

Aion has lost retention around 80% after a few months. (from peak 80k hours played to around 17k now). Xfire shows trends, and shows it quite accurately.

• Age of Conan lost 90%
• WAR 95%
• Lotro 85%
• DDO 95%

etc

Name me a game other than WoW/EVE that would retain even 50% of its customers since release. THERE IS NONE.

Vanguard sold barely around 200.000 copies worldwide during first months of release. Age of Conan, WAR, Aion, Lotro,.. all sold over 500 - 1k milion. Talking about retention? Get your facts right first.

 So your saying Vanguard has retained more then 10% of those 200k players that tried it (and thats only counting the first 2 months or so not any that tried it after that?) Funny you don't list Vanguards retention with those others.  Or oh wait its seem I did get my facts straight and you know it. So you compare Vanguard to those other games great but then at least they had big enough sells that even with 10-15% of their players they are doing moderatly ok. This is not the case with Vanguard's 200k peak and you know it. Nice try at deflecting tthe facts.
 

   Vanguards a huge world with very few players and only stays afloat buy leeching income from other games via staion pass. How long that will go on is questionable, as even you admit. Players should look for and demand better not just settle for a dying game, thats counter productive to the genre as a whole.

Originally posted by winter

Originally posted by Thillian

Everybody keep bringing up the retention crap. What a NONSENSE.
 

Go to xfire.

Aion has lost retention around 80% after a few months. (from peak 80k hours played to around 17k now). Xfire shows trends, and shows it quite accurately.

• Age of Conan lost 90%
• WAR 95%
• Lotro 85%
• DDO 95%

etc

Name me a game other than WoW/EVE that would retain even 50% of its customers since release. THERE IS NONE.

Vanguard sold barely around 200.000 copies worldwide during first months of release. Age of Conan, WAR, Aion, Lotro,.. all sold over 500 - 1k milion. Talking about retention? Get your facts right first.

 So your saying Vanguard has retained more then 10% of those 200k players that tried it (and thats only counting the first 2 months or so not any that tried it after that?) Funny you don't list Vanguards retention with those others.  Or oh wait its seem I did get my facts straight and you know it.

Woah, you missed my point by miles.

No, I meant, Vanguard retention is nothing unusual. 9 games out of 10 coming out last years, have the same crap retention. Every games go high first weeks, and then drop by 80-90% during the next months. Every game except EVE, WoW.

That magical word "retention" means nothing and says nothing about the quality of the game. Thanks god for that. It just shows the customers are not really interested to invest in the same game for a long time. It shows market preference changes greatly and rapidly, and that's why we see games like STO with mediocre gameplay, huge IP, lifetime offer, which obviously relies on high first sales and no retention.

Vanguard has more than 10% of that Original 200k playing.

That doesn't change the fact that the game is so huge and thus seems devoid of life.

tbh i would say avoid the game only because once you go through that awesome journey (easily one of the best) the endgame sucks because they cut devs too early and they aren't making an effort to flesh it out anymore.

Originally posted by Death1942

Vanguard has more than 10% of that Original 200k playing.

 

That doesn't change the fact that the game is so huge and thus seems devoid of life.

 

tbh i would say avoid the game only because once you go through that awesome journey (easily one of the best) the endgame sucks because they cut devs too early and they aren't making an effort to flesh it out anymore.

But...you just said it's an awesome journey?

Who cares about endgame? Only WoW heads get tangled up in that. Re-roll or move on to another game if it loses your attention.

I honestly don't get the contaversy or drama over going to a game. If the download is the big issue, you can get disk for the game off ebay for under 10 bucks. Hell I got a new collectors addition years ago for 9.99.

shop.ebay.com/

Originally posted by Torak

Originally posted by Death1942

Vanguard has more than 10% of that Original 200k playing.

 

That doesn't change the fact that the game is so huge and thus seems devoid of life.

 

tbh i would say avoid the game only because once you go through that awesome journey (easily one of the best) the endgame sucks because they cut devs too early and they aren't making an effort to flesh it out anymore.

 

But...you just said it's an awesome journey?

Who cares about endgame? Only WoW heads get tangled up in that. Re-roll or move on to another game if it loses your attention.

I honestly don't get the contaversy or drama over going to a game. If the download is the big issue, you can get disk for the game off ebay for under 10 bucks. Hell I got a new collectors addition years ago for 9.99.

shop.ebay.com/

 

some people do care about it.  Some people prefer to find a game that will hook them for both the journey and the endgame.

If the OP doesn't mind the crap endgame then my all means, go for it.

I'll be honest with ya OP, there have been times that i would want to just pop my head in to look around but the above posters said it best. Vanguard is quite possibly the only game I can say that you want to avoid the end game. That being said I'm talking about anything post  Lvl 50 APW. You will have the best time if you go through lvl 1 - 49 group content then top it off with APW and the Griffin quest line...and yeah you could slap fengrot/dresla on top of it.

Vanguard shines in its mid-level content as there is an abundant amount of it. So for what it is worth, there's a few things you have to "check off" in order to enjoy the game for what it is:

- You need patience. Alot of it, this includes patience for bugs, groups, and the overall feel that the game will move forward.
- You will need a guild. The game population does not support well for those who like to roam solo and PUGs. If you don't join a guild, plain and simple your expeirence in the game will be...not as good sort to speak.
- Understand the position of the game. Do not go in expecting support such as WoW/EQ2/LoTrO/Eve. Vanguard today is basically what you will see in VG 10 months from now 9 times out of 10.
- Do not go in with a hardcore mentality. Vanguard doesn't support that kind of gameplay. Vanguard today is a casual man's game due to its lack of development to keep up with a hardcore mentality (not that any game can) but in VG you will hit the ceiling and be stuck there for quite some time.

That's my basic guide to enjoying Vanguard. This is not a biased "hate raiding post", this is the simple reality of what VG offers and who it will cater to from now until...whenever.

Well, I do like solo play. I just saw a video on housing, crafting and chopping down trees. So I am going to do the trial.

People complained that there wasnt enough high end content for group (besides kdq) so now they have decided to focus on group content for the year and people are complaining that they set aside the raid content.  So yea, whatever.

Originally posted by Thillian 

Woah, you missed my point by miles.

No, I meant, Vanguard retention is nothing unusual. 9 games out of 10 coming out last years, have the same crap retention. Every games go high first weeks, and then drop by 80-90% during the next months. Every game except EVE, WoW.

That magical word "retention" means nothing and says nothing about the quality of the game. Thanks god for that. It just shows the customers are not really interested to invest in the same game for a long time. It shows market preference changes greatly and rapidly, and that's why we see games like STO with mediocre gameplay, huge IP, lifetime offer, which obviously relies on high first sales and no retention.

Do you really think it is normal for games to lose 80-90% of their playerbase in a short period of time?  I'm sure that this is only a recent trend in games and comparing a bunch of failed mmos doesn't make it normal by any means.

There is a reason retention rates have dropped so much the last few years. 

@OP

As long as you go into vanguard with the knowledge that it will receive little to no development compared to other 15$/month games and could close doors in the near future, give it a try.  There are some really nice features to experience.

Originally posted by Thillian

Everybody keep bringing up the retention crap. What a NONSENSE.
 

Go to xfire.

Aion has lost retention around 80% after a few months. (from peak 80k hours played to around 17k now). Xfire shows trends, and shows it quite accurately.

• Age of Conan lost 90%
• WAR 95%
• Lotro 85%
• DDO 95%

etc

Name me a game other than WoW/EVE that would retain even 50% of its customers since release. THERE IS NONE.

Vanguard sold barely around 200.000 copies worldwide during first months of release. Age of Conan, WAR, Aion, Lotro,.. all sold over 500 - 1k milion. Talking about retention? Get your facts right first.

Thillian

I had pretty nice moments in Vanguard, but what you said is very questionable.

AION  has a LOT of crawded servers, the game is a success.

LotRo has a nice number of healthy servers.

DDO and War had major population issues.

Age of Conan recovered, the same did not really happened with Vanguard.

Vanguard population loss was much more considerable and fast ... to tell te truth we can't even say AION and LotRo had a real issue with retention, they are successful games.

Your statistics claims are not even accurate and reflect much more your personal impression than anything. What happened with Vanguard was indeed disastrous.

anyway...

I think Vanguard can generate a lot of nice experiences, but I would recommend Everquest 2 and even WoW for anyone looking for long term gaming experience and a MMORPG with real support and vast content but in my opinion, all the good aspects of Vanguard (world, community, a couple of good dungeons etc) make it worth a try.

Originally posted by Hoobley

Over the past few days I've had quite serious cravings for Vanguard again.

 

To play I'd have to download the entire client again and all that.

 

I've said in some other threads recently that the reason I'm not playing is because I don't have faith that the game will last.

 

Someone either stop me or tell me that it's worth the time investment. 

This brings up what you want in a game. VG probably does not have as much "end game" content as some other games; for me, that means little. I enjoy being in the game, and don't want to level as fast as possible to the end.

If you like old-school MMORPG's, with massive open worlds and lots of different stuff to do, then VG could be your game.

I started fairly recently, and am having a blast!

The game is not dead and they will not pull the plug.  But unfortunately, investment in this game will be minimal going forward.

So if you find the game fun, download it and have that fun.  I enjoy the end-game a lot, and since they shelved AAs, Stirhaad and HoSS I might very well be looking for something new within the next year or so.  However, the journey from level 1 to 50 is incredible fun in Vanguard.  You'll have tons to do before you even come close to worrying about end game content.

It's also worth mentioning that the 1 through 50 journey is virtually bug-free with much improved performance.  When I started out on my main 3 years ago, the bugs and performance were horrendous.  I'm taking a new alt Sorc through now and it's a whole different scene without all those problems. 

For example, when I did the spider caves on my main long ago, many of the quests didn't work and I couldn't complete the story line for the spider mother.  I did this a few weeks ago with an alt and finally got to see all the quests through including the entire storyline.  I also had spider eggs implanted in me while in the caves and they they burst out of my body and killed me after I had returned to the outpost and through I was safe (it's stuff like that which never worked back in the day).

Ehm who says end game sucks in Vanguard?? Its fucking awesome.

Originally posted by Hoobley

Over the past few days I've had quite serious cravings for Vanguard again.

 

To play I'd have to download the entire client again and all that.

 

I've said in some other threads recently that the reason I'm not playing is because I don't have faith that the game will last.

 

Someone either stop me or tell me that it's worth the time investment. 

The game will not die,it became clear to me,that SOE took over the game to add a legitimate game to their station pass.

It is a big game,enjoy it if you like it,after you got all you could out of it,move on to something else.

Originally posted by Umbral

Originally posted by Thillian

Everybody keep bringing up the retention crap. What a NONSENSE.
 

Go to xfire.

Aion has lost retention around 80% after a few months. (from peak 80k hours played to around 17k now). Xfire shows trends, and shows it quite accurately.

• Age of Conan lost 90%
• WAR 95%
• Lotro 85%
• DDO 95%

etc

Name me a game other than WoW/EVE that would retain even 50% of its customers since release. THERE IS NONE.

Vanguard sold barely around 200.000 copies worldwide during first months of release. Age of Conan, WAR, Aion, Lotro,.. all sold over 500 - 1k milion. Talking about retention? Get your facts right first.

 

Thillian

I had pretty nice moments in Vanguard, but what you said is very questionable.

AION  has a LOT of crawded servers, the game is a success.

LotRo has a nice number of healthy servers.

DDO and War had major population issues.

Age of Conan recovered, the same did not really happened with Vanguard.

Vanguard population loss was much more considerable and fast ... to tell te truth we can't even say AION and LotRo had a real issue with retention, they are successful games.

Your statistics claims are not even accurate and reflect much more your personal impression than anything. What happened with Vanguard was indeed disastrous.

 

My statistics claim are directly taken from x-fire. You either believe x-fire figures or not but calling it a fabrication from my side is a bit silly, especially when you can take a look by yourself anytime you want.

re-subbed myself a few months back, after wandering around lost in MMO land, keep being drawn back to VG because the PVE is so good, and the martial art style classes are just a pure blast compared to lets say a bruiser in eq2.

And well its a joy to fear kite with a necro again, after the sad attempt at rehashing necro,s in EQ2, the thing that pisses me off and I nerd rage quit after 4 months or so, is lack of support, knowing there is something huge here, something that deserves so much more, and its being left to die. ( For Whatever Reason, so enough with the reasons, there is loads of them, it was a pure clusterF**k I know, we all know)