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Darkfall

Darkfall 

General Discussion  » Alignment questions...

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22 posts found
  patshir

Novice Member

Joined: 10/04/09
Posts: 115

 
OP  1/21/10 10:17:28 AM#1

 Well, I am a relative new gamer of DFO and I am discovering new aspects of the game everyday. The last I discovered was that I could be ganked by blue players and they could later laugh at my face and stay harmless.

Yesterday while I was harvesting, I was attacked for what I thought was a red (I can stand to be ganked by a red, these are the risks of Agon) but when I sawclosely I could see that the player was a grey one, so he was a blue before attacking me. I fought but he was levels up from me so I had to run but no use, he finished me off in seconds. When I was dying I saw a pop that asked if I wanted to forgive my attacker, I had received that pop before but I never understood why it appeared with some deaths and not in others.

I understood that the question is asked when I am ganked by a racial ally.

However I don't understand why my ganker appeared in the same city I respawn and his name was so blue as ever. I assume his actions brought some penalty that will put him near being a red, but how many killings will take him to get to red.

This is a little annoying for me to be ganked by blues and later see them laughing in my face inside the cities and without any possibility to take vengeance. I only want to know how many gankings will bring them red. Thanks for any input. 

  Ruyn

Novice Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 1086

1/21/10 10:32:44 AM#2

A blue can kill you without going red if they have full allignment and don't gank you.

  jango1337

Novice Member

Joined: 10/23/09
Posts: 227

1/21/10 10:33:33 AM#3

the alignment system right now is pretty bad but it should be a lot better in the next expansion.

  DarthRaiden

Novice Member

Joined: 11/20/05
Posts: 4547

i make art,
till someone dies.

Forum Terrorist

1/21/10 10:53:46 AM#4

FFA PvP rules ...expect to be attacked by everyone. The alignment system as implemented now put a very small hurdle to everyone's freedom to attack someone. That's not a bad thing IMO.

Simply expect everyone to attack you  and you good to go...why put artificial hurdles to FFA ruleset ? 

From the litle i know about MO's alignement system and correct me if i am wrong you get murder count and you can't attack another blue player for several hours ? If so....then it takes the freedom away from FFA part ...

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  Paragus1

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Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 1751

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1/21/10 11:50:56 AM#5
Originally posted by Ruyn

A blue can kill you without going red if they have full allignment and don't gank you.

 

What he said.  If your alignment is maxed in the positive direction, you will have a +10 rating.  If you murder a racial ally and the person does not forgive you, I think your alignment shifts 8 points roughly in a negative direction.   In this case his score would still be a +2.   Any alignment rating above zero will still keep you blue.

  Ruyn

Novice Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 1086

1/21/10 11:54:25 AM#6
Originally posted by Paragus1
Originally posted by Ruyn

A blue can kill you without going red if they have full allignment and don't gank you.

 

What he said.  If your alignment is maxed in the positive direction, you will have a +10 rating.  If you murder a racial ally and the person does not forgive you, I think your alignment shifts 8 points roughly in a negative direction.   In this case his score would still be a +2.   Any alignment rating above zero will still keep you blue.

 

To add to that, if he would have ganked you he would have lost that extra 2 points to goto 0, thus red.

  User Deleted
1/21/10 12:25:47 PM#7

also, be careful of players who hit you once, then parry your counter-attacks long enough to go blue again....in your attack you don't notice they are blue again fast enough... and now YOU are grey, and they kill you without penalty.

Yeah...I know....nasty trick....has come in handy from time to time, though.

Rule of thumb: if you're going to kill a grey, make sure you have the time to do it....if you can't totally dominate them in ten seconds, then wait 'till they hit you at least twice in a row before opening up on them.

  segmentfault

Novice Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 76

1/21/10 1:14:13 PM#8

It is a very nasty trick.  Had it done by me a few days ago at goblins when I was still extremely green around the gills.

 

First I congratulated him for killing me (it's part of the game - blue or not.)  Second I asked him what exactly happened and he mumbled something about grey this grey that (very cryptic,) but I still didn't completely understand until I asked some people a few days later.

 

  MadnessRealm

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/02/09
Posts: 2717

Ignorance is Bliss.

1/21/10 3:00:07 PM#9
Originally posted by Ruyn
Originally posted by Paragus1
Originally posted by Ruyn

A blue can kill you without going red if they have full allignment and don't gank you.

 

What he said.  If your alignment is maxed in the positive direction, you will have a +10 rating.  If you murder a racial ally and the person does not forgive you, I think your alignment shifts 8 points roughly in a negative direction.   In this case his score would still be a +2.   Any alignment rating above zero will still keep you blue.

 

To add to that, if he would have ganked you he would have lost that extra 2 points to goto 0, thus red.

Correction ,ganking a blue is -4 points. So if a blue kills another blue and then gank him, he will be at -2.

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  Ruyn

Novice Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 1086

1/21/10 3:02:39 PM#10
Originally posted by MadnessRealm
Originally posted by Ruyn
Originally posted by Paragus1
Originally posted by Ruyn

A blue can kill you without going red if they have full allignment and don't gank you.

 

What he said.  If your alignment is maxed in the positive direction, you will have a +10 rating.  If you murder a racial ally and the person does not forgive you, I think your alignment shifts 8 points roughly in a negative direction.   In this case his score would still be a +2.   Any alignment rating above zero will still keep you blue.

 

To add to that, if he would have ganked you he would have lost that extra 2 points to goto 0, thus red.

Correction ,ganking a blue is -4 points. So if a blue kills another blue and then gank him, he will be at -2.

My bad.  Being in a clan and never going to a capital I never even look at alignment anymore.

  MadnessRealm

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/02/09
Posts: 2717

Ignorance is Bliss.

1/21/10 3:38:02 PM#11
Originally posted by Ruyn

My bad.  Being in a clan and never going to a capital I never even look at alignment anymore.

 

Yeah, they really need to modify the Alignement system. It's more of an annoyance and no one bothers with it anymore.

------
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  Respit

Novice Member

Joined: 11/05/08
Posts: 780

“It's not easy to cut through a human head with a hacksaw.”
- Michael Crichton

1/21/10 4:11:58 PM#12
Originally posted by DarthRaiden

FFA PvP rules ...expect to be attacked by everyone. The alignment system as implemented now put a very small hurdle to everyone's freedom to attack someone. That's not a bad thing IMO.

Simply expect everyone to attack you  and you good to go...why put artificial hurdles to FFA ruleset ? 

From the litle i know about MO's alignement system and correct me if i am wrong you get murder count and you can't attack another blue player for several hours ? If so....then it takes the freedom away from FFA part ...

 

Then why have any alignment system at all?

The alignment system was and is (according to currently available information) supposed to make a red's life difficult and something to be generally avoided. Accountability was and is advertised as a feature. But, as you stated, it is nothing more than a "very small hurdle", and easily circumvented.

 

While it may not concern you, there are more than a few that feel it is one of the core game mechanics that Aventurine needs to fix. Not only would it make sense, it would go a long ways towards making things a tiny bit easier on the new player experience.

 

Is it because of the "William Wallace" crowd that Aventurine hasn't fixed it yet?? I don't know, but it really needs to be addressed , one way or the other.

 

Besides all that, what does MO's alignment system have to do with the OP and Darkfall?

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  Stoney0jej

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/05
Posts: 33

1/21/10 4:47:19 PM#13
Originally posted by Respit
Originally posted by DarthRaiden

FFA PvP rules ...expect to be attacked by everyone. The alignment system as implemented now put a very small hurdle to everyone's freedom to attack someone. That's not a bad thing IMO.

Simply expect everyone to attack you  and you good to go...why put artificial hurdles to FFA ruleset ? 

From the litle i know about MO's alignement system and correct me if i am wrong you get murder count and you can't attack another blue player for several hours ? If so....then it takes the freedom away from FFA part ...

 

Then why have any alignment system at all?

The alignment system was and is (according to currently available information) supposed to make a red's life difficult and something to be generally avoided. Accountability was and is advertised as a feature. But, as you stated, it is nothing more than a "very small hurdle", and easily circumvented.

 

While it may not concern you, there are more than a few that feel it is one of the core game mechanics that Aventurine needs to fix. Not only would it make sense, it would go a ways towards making things a tiny bit easier on the new player experience.

 

Is it because of the "William Wallace" crowd that Aventurine hasn't fixed it yet?? I don't know, but it really needs to be addressed , one way or the other.

 

Besides all that, what does MO's alignment system have to do with the OP and Darkfall?

Ya an alignment system is ment to provide consequence for unlawful behavior. AV totally blew it when they designed the whole alignment system around racial warfare and then allowed ARAC clans without consequence. Not only do they not have consequence but they are advantaged because they can recruit from every race, and then they went and made it worse by allowing them to have clan recruiting stations in RA capitals and starting towns. Now you have people that are red and do not want to be red, and people that are blue just so they can screw over other blues. It is a huge mess and planned very poorly IMO.

  Ruyn

Novice Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 1086

1/21/10 5:07:09 PM#14

Alignment is kind of a sore issue with me.   I have been bitching about the ARAC issue and alignment since beta.

My solution was to have anyone grouping with a red automatically turn red.  Anyone in a group that goes red, makes the whole group red.  Killing same faction or alliance faction makes you red.  To go blue you kill 100 enemies and it can't be the same person more than once/day.

The only fault of my system is when reds travel with blues ungrouped.  And the only thing I can think of around that is if a blue hits another blue multiple times he goes red for attempted murder but instead of -100 alignment it would be a lesser number.

That would give a meaningful alignment system that would make it hard to go back to a blue status (not impossible) and all arac clans would then be red.

  Stoney0jej

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/05
Posts: 33

1/21/10 6:07:25 PM#15
Originally posted by Ruyn

Alignment is kind of a sore issue with me.   I have been bitching about the ARAC issue and alignment since beta.

My solution was to have anyone grouping with a red automatically turn red.  Anyone in a group that goes red, makes the whole group red.  Killing same faction or alliance faction makes you red.  To go blue you kill 100 enemies and it can't be the same person more than once/day.

The only fault of my system is when reds travel with blues ungrouped.  And the only thing I can think of around that is if a blue hits another blue multiple times he goes red for attempted murder but instead of -100 alignment it would be a lesser number.

That would give a meaningful alignment system that would make it hard to go back to a blue status (not impossible) and all arac clans would then be red.


 

I dont know it seems like they are going to have to do more. It may be to late. As it is now ARAC's hugely out number RAC's. If ARAC are made to be permanently aligned as evil but still have the advantage, and RAC's are viewed as good and disadvantaged. I dont see many people switching to smaller clans just for the sake of being good. If everyone is encouraged to be evil whats the point of alignment.

  MadnessRealm

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/02/09
Posts: 2717

Ignorance is Bliss.

1/21/10 6:21:12 PM#16
Originally posted by Stoney0jej
Originally posted by Ruyn

Alignment is kind of a sore issue with me.   I have been bitching about the ARAC issue and alignment since beta.

My solution was to have anyone grouping with a red automatically turn red.  Anyone in a group that goes red, makes the whole group red.  Killing same faction or alliance faction makes you red.  To go blue you kill 100 enemies and it can't be the same person more than once/day.

The only fault of my system is when reds travel with blues ungrouped.  And the only thing I can think of around that is if a blue hits another blue multiple times he goes red for attempted murder but instead of -100 alignment it would be a lesser number.

That would give a meaningful alignment system that would make it hard to go back to a blue status (not impossible) and all arac clans would then be red.


 

I dont know it seems like they are going to have to do more. It may be to late. As it is now ARAC's hugely out number RAC's. If ARAC are made to be permanently aligned as evil but still have the advantage, and RAC's are viewed as good and disadvantaged. I dont see many people switching to smaller clans just for the sake of being good. If everyone is encouraged to be evil whats the point of alignment.


I agree with you there. Until AV succesfully add Racial War in DarkFall, pushing for a non-ARAC feature with the current system won't work at all. As for the alignements, as someone said a while ago (not on these forums), the alignement system should make it challenging to go Red. It should be HARD to go RED and because of this, we would see real PKers.

Though I have yet to figure out "how" to make it harder without creating more issues.

------
Your daily dose of common sense since 2009!

  Stoney0jej

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/05
Posts: 33

1/21/10 7:00:55 PM#17
Originally posted by MadnessRealm
Originally posted by Stoney0jej
Originally posted by Ruyn

Alignment is kind of a sore issue with me.   I have been bitching about the ARAC issue and alignment since beta.

My solution was to have anyone grouping with a red automatically turn red.  Anyone in a group that goes red, makes the whole group red.  Killing same faction or alliance faction makes you red.  To go blue you kill 100 enemies and it can't be the same person more than once/day.

The only fault of my system is when reds travel with blues ungrouped.  And the only thing I can think of around that is if a blue hits another blue multiple times he goes red for attempted murder but instead of -100 alignment it would be a lesser number.

That would give a meaningful alignment system that would make it hard to go back to a blue status (not impossible) and all arac clans would then be red.


 

I dont know it seems like they are going to have to do more. It may be to late. As it is now ARAC's hugely out number RAC's. If ARAC are made to be permanently aligned as evil but still have the advantage, and RAC's are viewed as good and disadvantaged. I dont see many people switching to smaller clans just for the sake of being good. If everyone is encouraged to be evil whats the point of alignment.


I agree with you there. Until AV succesfully add Racial War in DarkFall, pushing for a non-ARAC feature with the current system won't work at all. As for the alignements, as someone said a while ago (not on these forums), the alignement system should make it challenging to go Red. It should be HARD to go RED and because of this, we would see real PKers.

Though I have yet to figure out "how" to make it harder without creating more issues.

Well I think one thing they could do Is to Reinforce RAC's Maybe give highly rewarding quests at the capitals for RAC's to seige lost cities in the RA's homeland thereby driving arac's off the mainland. Then reds wouldnt have easy access to noob lands like they do now. Reds would then have to operate out of chaos cities or enemy RAC's.

The clan recruiting stations should only be available to RAC's.

They could let you build up alignment past 10 (where if you take an alignment hit you lose it all) for the purpose of turning in for rewards, like I dont know racial weapons and armour might be apropriate. They would have to limit the alignment you can get off a single enemy per day though so cant be efficiently exploited.

Make all ARAC's evil with no posative alignment gains.

Im sure they could find a way if they really wanted too.

  thinktank001

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/13/08
Posts: 1954

1/21/10 7:53:52 PM#18

I think before they move into fixing alignment they should incorporate land ownership through keeps and villages.  This would allow guilds to still have their FFA area with no or very little penalty, and everywhere else would be held to the normal alignment penalties. 

  DarthRaiden

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1/21/10 8:04:30 PM#19
Originally posted by Respit
Originally posted by DarthRaiden

FFA PvP rules ...expect to be attacked by everyone. The alignment system as implemented now put a very small hurdle to everyone's freedom to attack someone. That's not a bad thing IMO.

Simply expect everyone to attack you  and you good to go...why put artificial hurdles to FFA ruleset ? 

From the litle i know about MO's alignement system and correct me if i am wrong you get murder count and you can't attack another blue player for several hours ? If so....then it takes the freedom away from FFA part ...

 

Then why have any alignment system at all?

The alignment system was and is (according to currently available information) supposed to make a red's life difficult and something to be generally avoided. Accountability was and is advertised as a feature. But, as you stated, it is nothing more than a "very small hurdle", and easily circumvented.

 

While it may not concern you, there are more than a few that feel it is one of the core game mechanics that Aventurine needs to fix. Not only would it make sense, it would go a ways towards making things a tiny bit easier on the new player experience.

 

Is it because of the "William Wallace" crowd that Aventurine hasn't fixed it yet?? I don't know, but it really needs to be addressed , one way or the other.

 

Besides all that, what does MO's alignment system have to do with the OP and Darkfall?

 

Did put MO as example for an FFA PvP alignment system a majority seems to prefer (isn't it similar to UO)

Your question why an alignment system at all is a good one.  From the PvP perspective IMO that would be an ideal solution. The reason why its in in these shape i think its because of to offer a small protection to crafter's, un-clanned soloer's and newbs to have a somewhat little protection the rest is based on the rule : FFA player-driven PvP > racial PvP.

The unit of player-driven PvP  is  a clan and i think the alignment system is designed around clans and their members having freedom of race choice. Race restrictions would "destroy" that freedom and would establish a concurrent artificial core unit : the race affiliation of single individuals and simply put IRL mates may have inclination to one race or the other but they want to experience the world together.

The only type that remains  for racial content in DarkFall's system is as an option. Not as a core mechanic but something on a optional voluntary basis like housing or title quests.

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  thinktank001

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/13/08
Posts: 1954

1/21/10 8:18:34 PM#20
Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Did put MO as example for an FFA PvP alignment system a majority seems to prefer (isn't it similar to UO)

Your question why an alignment system at all is a good one.  From the PvP perspective IMO that would be an ideal solution. The reason why its in in these shape i think its because of offer a small protection to crafter's, un-clanned soloer's and newbs to have a somewhat litle protection the rest is based on the rule : FFA player-driven PvP > racial PvP.

The core of player-driven unit is  a clan and i think the alignment system is designed around clans and their members having freedom of race choice. Race restrictions would "destroy" that freedom and would establish a concurrent artificial core unit : the race affiliation and simply put IRL mates may have inclination to one race or the other but they want to experience the world together.

 


 

I disagree.   I think AV thought their race alignment scheme would be the driven conflict factor, and that guild PvP would actually take a back seat as feuds between guilds developed from their " RvR " encounters.   I think their alignment system would work excellent where RvR is the main focus, and ARAC type clans would be a haven for reds.   

However, the player base has moved into a completely different direction with clans as being the focus of PvP, and that isn't a bad thing, but I hope that the devs change the alignment system to match it.

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