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Star Wars Galaxies

Star Wars Galaxies 

SWG Veteran Refuge  » So why hasn't SWG bounced back... honestly.

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138 posts found
  Varny

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/14/09
Posts: 786

1/06/10 5:45:48 PM#41

 Because they ruined the game, their reputation and it is now six years old and new players will be put off by that.

  User Deleted
1/06/10 5:46:25 PM#42

Personally, I really wanted to like it. Even knowing what the naysayers were complaining about I tried it anyway since I am a big SW fan. What killed it for me was a few things that really bothered me. I will list some of them:

1. Dead cities. If one is going to play a sandbox style MMO a good sized playerbase is very important since the players make a lot of the "content." It was so barren outside of a few areas where vets congregated.

2. After the main storyline ended I was left with nothing but empty spaces with generic terrain and no real quests outside of fedex ones from the consoles. Obviously this kind of relates to number one.

3. Mobs. Seriously, whenever I did a quest the mobs were grouped and I would usually aggro 2-3 at a time and they were tough to handle alone. Why solo you ask? see number one... most players were maxed level and I rarely saw anyone outside of the few major cities that are popular.

 

I really WANTED to like it. In fact the starter zone and the storyline on Tatooine were awesome. Going into Jabba's palace and working for him was cool! The beginning of the story on Naboo was fun as well. But by the time I was done with Naboo, it had gotten real old. I bet once upon  a time when the place was filled with cities of players making content, city pvp, etc.... it would have been an easy thing to stay and hang my hat so to speak. 

When I hear you old school SWG vets talk of filled cantinas and meaningful community, rare jedi and the hunt to get one, etc... I think I really missed something special. I understand SWG had issues and it was not all roses, but still..... Also, I like how they did the beastmaster and other things that I am told were taken out but were coming back in. However, I think it may be a little to late.

In summary, as a SW fan I found SWG to leave me with a feeling of disappointment. I feel that it wasn't fleshed out like it could have been, and especially when the players left in droves, they needed to flesh out the planets to make up for the lack of player content. By not doing so, all I found , mostly, is dead player cities, empty towns, and terrain that  gave a feeling of de ja vu.

Just my opinion <shrugs>

 

  eolse

Novice Member

Joined: 6/23/05
Posts: 72

1/06/10 5:49:02 PM#43

games don't bounce back , you have one shot ..  i havent seen anygame like go through total revamp and have a health population or have made me want to come back and play it. example -  Vanguard , age of Conan, everquest 2 , 

  User Deleted
1/06/10 5:52:49 PM#44
Originally posted by Lateris

 

The numbers went down and never came back because of these actions. Because SOE and Lucas Arts destroyed the foundation of its very own community for SWG when they changed the game from a skill system to a leveling system, they lied to its community, banned community members who protested the change, and failed to deliver to the community promises that were made. The WoW clone failed!

 


The marketing is not there for this game, large expansion are not there that shows what they have done to turn the game around since the NGE. The artwork has regressed! Hardcore Star Wars fans turn a blind eye to this game because the cannon are completely frakked up. And producers change hands like a butterfly flying from leaf to leaf never able to complete the vision such as how Dead Meat delivered wonderful changes to the game that actually fixed the mire that was the NGE.


And it is really a shame because the crafting system and the player house system is fantastic. The space game is decent. I liked the collection system which made sense with the world design of the game. The world maps are large. Such a shame.

 

 

 

 

 

I totally agree on the crafting. In fact, that was really the diamond in the rough. Despite the negative post I made in this thread, I did enjoy the crafting and setting up shop! Few if any do crafting and selling so well.

  topllama

Novice Member

Joined: 11/27/06
Posts: 3

1/06/10 5:53:04 PM#45

Because it sucks now. as it has for 3+ years.

  alexanys1982

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/08
Posts: 277

WTB a sandbox mmo with WoW's polish.

1/06/10 5:58:49 PM#46

If they revert the game back to what it was on release sans bugs, thousands of people would drop EvE, WoW and w/e else they are playing to come back and re live the magic that game used to have. It would once again be a real competitor.

 

BUT they arent going to do that, dev manager egos and the sort will doom the game to getting shutdown soon. They would rather see the game gone then to admit they made a mistake and change things back.

  someforumguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 3481

1/06/10 6:08:23 PM#47
Originally posted by alexanys1982

If they revert the game back to what it was on release sans bugs, ...blahblah blah

 

You are asking for removing loads of content that has been added since the NGE and trying to solve the bugs that were mostly there from the beginning.

I think that starting from scratch would prove to be even less difficult. But I know, I shouldnt talk sense in this forum. So ahem, here it goes...

Yeah! revert the game back to preCU and itll be a WoW killer! Millions of players crave for item decay, waiting 30minutes on a shuttle and nothing but sand in the sandbox! They dont want content! SWG is srs bsns!

 

  alexanys1982

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/08
Posts: 277

WTB a sandbox mmo with WoW's polish.

1/06/10 6:20:22 PM#48

 Im not asking to remove loads of content, and alot of people didnt mind the shuttle times and item decay btw, its part of the original vision of the game where crafters actually mattered and were a big part of the game. To this day there isnt anything at all that compares to running and decorating my own droid shop...having customers come in and place orders/chat and just have a generally amazing time.  Having BH's come in and tell you about his last jedi hunt was cool, as was being a part of a towns commercial area in general. Also, im sure if they spent a few months tweaking code they could make the new content work just fine with the old original game design.

 

I understand that SWG is awful, but there was a time before all the NGE crapola that the game was a unique work of art with devs that had real vision that made a living breathing SW world, it was sony that decided they wanted to take WoW  head on and destroyed the games soul of player interaction in the proccess. Stop denying that SWG was once an amazing game.

 

  Bob_Blawblaw

Novice Member

Joined: 1/11/06
Posts: 1314

 
OP  1/06/10 6:32:01 PM#49
Originally posted by someforumguy
Originally posted by alexanys1982

If they revert the game back to what it was on release sans bugs, ...blahblah blah

 

You are asking for removing loads of content that has been added since the NGE and trying to solve the bugs that were mostly there from the beginning.

I think that starting from scratch would prove to be even less difficult. But I know, I shouldnt talk sense in this forum. So ahem, here it goes...

Yeah! revert the game back to preCU and itll be a WoW killer! Millions of players crave for item decay, waiting 30minutes on a shuttle and nothing but sand in the sandbox! They dont want content! SWG is srs bsns!

 

 

Someforumguy, what is your opinion of why SWG has not bounced back?

  someforumguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 3481

1/06/10 6:35:16 PM#50
Originally posted by alexanys1982

 Im not asking to remove loads of content, and alot of people didnt mind the shuttle times and item decay btw, its part of the original vision of the game where crafters actually mattered and were a big part of the game. To this day there isnt anything at all that compares to running and decorating my own droid shop...having customers come in and place orders/chat and just have a generally amazing time.  Having BH's come in and tell you about his last jedi hunt was cool, as was being a part of a towns commercial area in general. Also, im sure if they spent a few months tweaking code they could make the new content work just fine with the old original game design.

 

I understand that SWG is awful, but there was a time before all the NGE crapola that the game was a unique work of art with devs that had real vision that made a living breathing SW world, it was sony that decided they wanted to take WoW  head on and destroyed the games soul of player interaction in the proccess. Stop denying that SWG was once an amazing game.

 

I never denied that SWG was or is an amazing game. It just would never bring in the numbers like WoW does.

I only see replacing the skillsystem for the cookiecutter professions as a bad move. I think that removing things like decay, TEF and shorten shuttle wait times was a great move.  Adding content was a good thing.

But it doesnt matter. Even if the skillsystem would be put back in place, it would still be nothing but a niche game. What you dont realise is that loads of those millions of WoW players arent even what you would call 'gamers'.

They never played games before WoW and do play WoW, because WoW can be played without ever having to face a challenge or having to read a guide on a website. This kind of crowd will never play a game like SWG.

If you could add the old skillsystem to todays SWG, it would be loads better then preNGE. But just the old skillsystem. Not crap like TEF or other systems that only promote griefing (TEF) or idle time (shuttletimes). Because seriously, you dont need long waiting times to get socializing starting.


 

  Terranah

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/03/04
Posts: 3616

1/06/10 6:36:34 PM#51
Originally posted by Lateris

 

The numbers went down and never came back because of these actions. Because SOE and Lucas Arts destroyed the foundation of its very own community for SWG when they changed the game from a skill system to a leveling system, they lied to its community, banned community members who protested the change, and failed to deliver to the community promises that were made. The WoW clone failed!

 


The marketing is not there for this game, large expansion are not there that shows what they have done to turn the game around since the NGE. The artwork has regressed! Hardcore Star Wars fans turn a blind eye to this game because the cannon are completely frakked up. And producers change hands like a butterfly flying from leaf to leaf never able to complete the vision such as how Dead Meat delivered wonderful changes to the game that actually fixed the mire that was the NGE.


And it is really a shame because the crafting system and the player house system is fantastic. The space game is decent. I liked the collection system which made sense with the world design of the game. The world maps are large. Such a shame.

 

 

 

 

 


 

I have returned to SWG post NGE a few times to assess the state of the game.  I think the crafting system, player housing, space, and large worlds are amazing.  But unfortunately, the move away from skill based game to a class/level type of system gutted one of the main draws of the game.  The fps combat would be more engauging if it was implemented better, so far I have yet to see an fps hybrid style mmo with a well designed user interface. 

  someforumguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 3481

1/06/10 6:47:57 PM#52
Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw
Originally posted by someforumguy
Originally posted by alexanys1982

If they revert the game back to what it was on release sans bugs, ...blahblah blah

 

You are asking for removing loads of content that has been added since the NGE and trying to solve the bugs that were mostly there from the beginning.

I think that starting from scratch would prove to be even less difficult. But I know, I shouldnt talk sense in this forum. So ahem, here it goes...

Yeah! revert the game back to preCU and itll be a WoW killer! Millions of players crave for item decay, waiting 30minutes on a shuttle and nothing but sand in the sandbox! They dont want content! SWG is srs bsns!

 

 

Someforumguy, what is your opinion of why SWG has not bounced back?

 

Too late for that. The engine has too many flaws to start with, that itll always have line of sight issues, no true Z-axis and lag in mass PVP battles.

But lets say you can squash all bugs, put the skillsystem back in and maybe add some graphic improvements. Based on the original idea of SWG, it would still be a niche game. So expect player numbers like EVE, not WoW.

For WoW like figures, it would need a completely new engine to get rid of the LOS issues, add a true Z- axis and faster client-server communication. Space, housing, crafting and player cities are ok as it is to start out with. Add atmospheric flight for the planets (not possible with current engine), replace cookiecutter professions for the skillsystem for more diversity. Get some good questdesigners and writers to slap on content. Then you might have a shot, IF..

SW:TOR wasnt this far in production. If that will prove to be a hit, I dont believe SWG will get a fair shot at a relaunch. Also it would take way too much money to rebuild SWG with all its features for a new engine. I dont know any other MMO that has so many features(except UO maybe).

  someforumguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 3481

1/06/10 6:58:48 PM#53

Just saw a nice suggestion in a different thread.

Free to play. Make SWG free to play after the GCW update which they are currently working on. After that, offer all new content through TCG or cashshop.

Or like AO, offer some perks to subscribers, while the froobs have the base game. In the case of SWG, let players pay a monthly fee for one or two extra characterslots (one of the most asked additions for the game) and more free TCG packs a month. While current base game is free to play.

Its either this, or SWG will be shelved in a year or two.

Of course, I dont have a clue if this would be viable because I dont know SOE's finances.

  alexanys1982

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/08
Posts: 277

WTB a sandbox mmo with WoW's polish.

1/06/10 8:37:17 PM#54
Originally posted by someforumguy
Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw
Originally posted by someforumguy
Originally posted by alexanys1982

If they revert the game back to what it was on release sans bugs, ...blahblah blah

 

You are asking for removing loads of content that has been added since the NGE and trying to solve the bugs that were mostly there from the beginning.

I think that starting from scratch would prove to be even less difficult. But I know, I shouldnt talk sense in this forum. So ahem, here it goes...

Yeah! revert the game back to preCU and itll be a WoW killer! Millions of players crave for item decay, waiting 30minutes on a shuttle and nothing but sand in the sandbox! They dont want content! SWG is srs bsns!

 

 

Someforumguy, what is your opinion of why SWG has not bounced back?

 

Too late for that. The engine has too many flaws to start with, that itll always have line of sight issues, no true Z-axis and lag in mass PVP battles.

But lets say you can squash all bugs, put the skillsystem back in and maybe add some graphic improvements. Based on the original idea of SWG, it would still be a niche game. So expect player numbers like EVE, not WoW.

For WoW like figures, it would need a completely new engine to get rid of the LOS issues, add a true Z- axis and faster client-server communication. Space, housing, crafting and player cities are ok as it is to start out with. Add atmospheric flight for the planets (not possible with current engine), replace cookiecutter professions for the skillsystem for more diversity. Get some good questdesigners and writers to slap on content. Then you might have a shot, IF..

SW:TOR wasnt this far in production. If that will prove to be a hit, I dont believe SWG will get a fair shot at a relaunch. Also it would take way too much money to rebuild SWG with all its features for a new engine. I dont know any other MMO that has so many features(except UO maybe).

 

I would rather have subscription numbers like EvE in a pre-NGE version of SWG then have it get shut down because of developer egos and an unwillingness to admit mistakes.

Also, noone is going to get WoW sub numbers. Its a once a decade phenom that wont be topped until either Blizzard unleashes the new secret MMO or another company shocks the world and dethrones the giant, and telling by what I been seeing coming down the pipe the latter isnt gonna happen anytime soon, seems like the latest trend is to make all your money on lifetime subs + preorder scams then float garbage games.

 

  Daffid011

Old School

Joined: 1/03/04
Posts: 7652

1/06/10 9:38:23 PM#55
Originally posted by someforumguy
Originally posted by alexanys1982

If they revert the game back to what it was on release sans bugs, ...blahblah blah

 

You are asking for removing loads of content that has been added since the NGE and trying to solve the bugs that were mostly there from the beginning.

I think that starting from scratch would prove to be even less difficult. But I know, I shouldnt talk sense in this forum. So ahem, here it goes...

Yeah! revert the game back to preCU and itll be a WoW killer! Millions of players crave for item decay, waiting 30minutes on a shuttle and nothing but sand in the sandbox! They dont want content! SWG is srs bsns!

 

I don't think anyone is saying SWG could topple wow if X changes are made or that it would have some miracle recovery to hundreds and hundreds of thousands of players.

 

However, could reverting to the old code be any worse that what is happening now?  Has any of that loads of content really done positive for the game?

 

 

 

  AntiheroD

Novice Member

Joined: 7/03/04
Posts: 41

1/06/10 10:59:29 PM#56

I wish Lucas would just make them shut it down. its been dead for a while now.

  Burntvet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/16/07
Posts: 2747

1/06/10 11:17:00 PM#57

I do a good bit of business development for my company, and one thing is true: A good product sells itself, a bad product you can barely give away. A few "disgruntled vets" have no effect compared to the reality of a bad product.

SWG-NGE is what it is. It is a well known quantity by now, in the MMO community, and people know SWG is a lousy game currently. And I have never played any game, before or since, that the "new content" makes more people quit. Recently SWG introduced... Flying pink Ewoks, Angel wings on players (on hot pants wearing Jedi even), Zombies, no trade on almost all new reward items, a crappy no trade player made quest system ... all of these thing cost SWG subs.

Why? Because the paying customers by and large, didn't like it, or felt that dev time was better spent fixing what was already there.

SWG-NGE is going down, because it is an inferior game, both compared previous incarnations of SWG and to other games, and because of SOE mismanagement and disregard they have for customers.

 

As a side note, I have never seen or heard of any other company hiding the "cancel button" as SOE did during the week after the NGE. When the account server crashed under the weight of people canceling, the geniuses at SOE decided to leave it broken and hoped the tide of cancellations would let up. Until people started getting on the phone and trying to cancel that way, the account server magically started working a short time later.

SOE can't live stuff like that down.

 

 

 

  Warmaker

Novice Member

Joined: 5/04/07
Posts: 2233

1/07/10 2:29:19 AM#58

SOE & SWG:

Piss-poor development

Piss-poor customer / public relations

Piss-poor gameplay

Piss-poor ethics

Piss-poor reputation

So... why hasn't SWG bounced back?  I wonder why...

"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)

  someforumguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 3481

1/07/10 4:15:49 AM#59
Originally posted by Daffid011
Originally posted by someforumguy
Originally posted by alexanys1982

If they revert the game back to what it was on release sans bugs, ...blahblah blah

 

You are asking for removing loads of content that has been added since the NGE and trying to solve the bugs that were mostly there from the beginning.

I think that starting from scratch would prove to be even less difficult. But I know, I shouldnt talk sense in this forum. So ahem, here it goes...

Yeah! revert the game back to preCU and itll be a WoW killer! Millions of players crave for item decay, waiting 30minutes on a shuttle and nothing but sand in the sandbox! They dont want content! SWG is srs bsns!

 

I don't think anyone is saying SWG could topple wow if X changes are made or that it would have some miracle recovery to hundreds and hundreds of thousands of players.

 

However, could reverting to the old code be any worse that what is happening now?  Has any of that loads of content really done positive for the game?

 

 

 

 

Well I didnt quote you, so maybe you think differently. But a lot of posters in here actually think they would regain hundreds of thousand new players with a rollback.

About the rollback. That would cause loads of problems if you want to keep the current content. All the questlines and instances would have to be rebalanced for a system without lvls. A lot has been added since NGE.

The changed munitions crafting can also be binned, because its designed with lvls in mind.

So a rollback at this point would result in an even larger mess for which SWG doesnt have enough devs to deal with atm.

A lot of current players would like more diversity in the professions though. Its one of the most asked things for alongside more characterslots. Although there is beastmaster, chronicles master and pilot available to every profession, its still doesnt come near the freedom of choice in the old skillsystem.

Atm, SWG suffers mainly from a lack of devs. Players get impatient for new content before the devs even get to start something new. Well, and that the PVPers always want to push everyone into PVP if they want to or not. Maybe a PVP server would be a good thing for those.

  CujoSWAoA

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/27/04
Posts: 1848

"Pablo Picasso said art is a lie that tells the truth."

1/07/10 4:24:22 AM#60
Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

After reading this post (thanks Kaz for bringing it to my attention) on the Oboards, claiming that SWG is suffering due to a smear campaign by 'disgruntled vets', it really begs the discussion, who is responsible for keeping people out of the game?

The angry vets?

Or simply a crappy game?

Or both?

I think the implications are pretty interesting.

For myself, being an 'angry vet' who's posted my disdain for SOE and the current iteration of SWG, my ego would love for me to be a participant in the downfall of SWG. Although reality may be a bit different.

Sure, word of mouth has initially caused ALOT of damage to SWG upon NGE day, but in the last few years, the serious hatred posts have died out considerably, and honestly, I have a hard time believing the small handful of us 'vocal minority' are still keeping the masses at bay... so why hasn't SWG bounced back?

Addendum: adding a poll, and another option... 'the NGE community'

 

The Developers. That is the problem.

They destroyed the game with the NGE, yes. But then the plug was mostly pulled on the project and its floundered ever since.  SOE did not invest the MONEY into SWG to ever let it return to what it once was.  They did not BACK THEIR OWN NGE UPDATE and because of that, it was never an accepted change.

They ripped the spine out of the product, and then left it to die.

Thats why it failed. Its not the smeer campaign, though that hasn't helped either by any means.

SOE gave up on it the moment the NGE hit.

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