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Star Wars Galaxies

Star Wars Galaxies 

SWG Veteran Refuge  » So why hasn't SWG bounced back... honestly.

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138 posts found
  Bob_Blawblaw

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/11/06
Posts: 1315

 
OP  1/05/10 5:48:01 PM#1

After reading this post (thanks Kaz for bringing it to my attention) on the Oboards, claiming that SWG is suffering due to a smear campaign by 'disgruntled vets', it really begs the discussion, who is responsible for keeping people out of the game?

The angry vets?

Or simply a crappy game?

Or both?

I think the implications are pretty interesting.

For myself, being an 'angry vet' who's posted my disdain for SOE and the current iteration of SWG, my ego would love for me to be a participant in the downfall of SWG. Although reality may be a bit different.

Sure, word of mouth has initially caused ALOT of damage to SWG upon NGE day, but in the last few years, the serious hatred posts have died out considerably, and honestly, I have a hard time believing the small handful of us 'vocal minority' are still keeping the masses at bay... so why hasn't SWG bounced back?

Addendum: adding a poll, and another option... 'the NGE community'

What is keeping SWG from bouncing back?

The Disgruntled Vets
The current community
The game itself being crappy
All of the above
(login to vote)
  0over0

Novice Member

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 499

I'm just here for the cookies.

1/05/10 5:55:21 PM#2

Plenty of people hate WoW, it seems to do pretty well with subs.

People make up their own minds about products/services--all being vocal does is give it more attention, so more people try it and find out for themselves.

Apply lemon juice and candle flame here to reveal secret message.

  bbethel

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/04/05
Posts: 180

1/05/10 6:01:57 PM#3

The game has a Bad Name now. I have talked to people that I know they have not played the game by what they are talking about. They still have bad things to say about SWG. People hear or read people complaining about a game and then repeat that as if it is a game they have played. Word of mouth is very very strong. Even when it comes from people that have no idea what that are talking about. I feel sad about SWG. I have come back to SWG on and off sence the game came out and it is a fun game.

  Sortis

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/22/05
Posts: 202

1/05/10 6:06:08 PM#4

 Word gets around and the word has been spread very well. There are a lot of Star Wars fans out there and a lot of them were looking forward to this and a lot of them are still angry. It will be a boil on the ass of this genre for years to come, even after it's shut down.

Deadpool(to "Daredevil): See how you like it when I smack you with an interspatial distorter that will temporarily phase your brain into Dimension X!

"Daredevil": This is an ipod with a piece of masking tape attached to it.

Deadpool: It is...Ah, but for a second there, you were really worried!

"Daredevil": Idiot.

  Khalathwyr

Tipster

Joined: 6/02/04
Posts: 3151

Google is your friend.

1/05/10 6:11:02 PM#5

1 cup of SOE giving an existing customer base the middle finger

1 cup of taking a unique character progression system and making it closer to more of the same

2/3 cup of word of mouth

1 1/3 cup of many gamers having the memory of elephants and the tenacity of tigers

For someone to suggest it is a "smear campaign" only speaks to their ignorance on various levels. The actions of SOE are the cause of what they are getting gamer community wise today. They are "owed" a clean slate  just as much as their  former customers are "owed" classic servers.

I find it funny that they (SOE) and some "fans" of them are now crying that they deserve such a tabula rasa and they expect that it should be given them yet they will extend no such courtesy with the above mentioned classic server. It's SOE's right to take a customer be damned approach with their games. It is their game, afterall. That said, the opinions of their practices are the domain of their customers, past and present. SOE has not right to submit demands on those opinions because of them, if they are, causing financial distress to their product. Instead they should try changing their business approaches and take some "good faith" actions if they want to rid themselves of this laughably perceived "smear campaign".

"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."

Kickstarter 1 / Naysayers 0

  Sortis

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/22/05
Posts: 202

1/05/10 6:14:56 PM#6
Originally posted by Khalathwyr

1 cup of SOE giving an existing customer base the middle finger

1 cup of taking a unique character progression system and making it closer to more of the same

2/3 cup of word of mouth

1 1/3 cup of many gamers having the memory of elephants and the tenacity of tigers

For someone to suggest it is a "smear campaign" only speaks to their ignorance on various levels. The actions of SOE are the cause of what they are getting gamer community wise today. They are "owed" a clean slate  just as much as their  former customers are "owed" classic servers.

I find it funny that they (SOE) and some "fans" of them are now crying that they deserve such a tabula rasa and they expect that it should be given them yet they will extend no such courtesy with the above mentioned classic server. It's SOE's right to take a customer be damned approach with their games. It is their game, afterall. That said, the opinions of their practices are the domain of their customers, past and present. SOE has not right to submit demands on those opinions because of them, if they are, causing financial distress to their product. Instead they should try changing their business approaches and take some "good faith" actions if they want to rid themselves of this laughably perceived "smear campaign".

too true

Deadpool(to "Daredevil): See how you like it when I smack you with an interspatial distorter that will temporarily phase your brain into Dimension X!

"Daredevil": This is an ipod with a piece of masking tape attached to it.

Deadpool: It is...Ah, but for a second there, you were really worried!

"Daredevil": Idiot.

  needalife214

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/30/06
Posts: 1129

Big Bang happened. And life happened. Then you trolls somehow got here?

1/05/10 6:17:17 PM#7

 the game wasnt crap   it is now enough said. Don't change whole damn games. I still find it hard to believe that they had this idea for NGE anyway..........

 

all memories now and enjoy those i shall

  Terranah

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/03/04
Posts: 3618

1/05/10 6:36:39 PM#8

I think their greatest failure was in thinking the customer was expendable.

 

If you have a business and regular customers, even if you are not the biggest success story on the block, you focus on what makes you unique and play to your strengths.  You can then build on those strengths, adding new things that will interest the veterans while drawing in a new crowd. 

 

But SOE took another route.  Instead of investing the subscription fees they recieved from players toward improving the game, they used the money to buid a secret version of the game, one that would fundamentally change how the game was played.  They lied to the community many times, and when people voted with their wallets they simply shrugged nonchallantly and said they would get new customers.  This has given SWG a bad reputation.

  Obee

Novice Member

Joined: 8/07/06
Posts: 1560

1/05/10 6:39:06 PM#9

It would be great if the word of mouth was what was killing the game, as it would mean we, as customers, could wield power beyond canceling our accounts.  Sadly, the major reason SWG has such a small playerbase is because the game is horrible and unfun.  The Star Wars IP is keeping the game on life support, as no matter how bad a Star Wars game is, there are people who will buy it because it is Star Wars.  The game is a broken mishmash of systems taken from games of much higher quality and implemented in the worst way possible.

 

  User Deleted
1/05/10 6:45:31 PM#10

SOE needs to own its failure and the fanbois need to stop blaming SOEs failure on the vets. 

  Bob_Blawblaw

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/11/06
Posts: 1315

 
OP  1/05/10 6:52:43 PM#11
Originally posted by Terranah

I think their greatest failure was in thinking the customer was expendable.

 

If you have a business and regular customers, even if you are not the biggest success story on the block, you focus on what makes you unique and play to your strengths.  You can then build on those strengths, adding new things that will interest the veterans while drawing in a new crowd. 

 

But SOE took another route.  Instead of investing the subscription fees they recieved from players toward improving the game, they used the money to buid a secret version of the game, one that would fundamentally change how the game was played.  They lied to the community many times, and when people voted with their wallets they simply shrugged nonchallantly and said they would get new customers.  This has given SWG a bad reputation.

 

You definitely described one of the major reasons why I personally will have no part of a SOE title, but I left that option out of the pole/question on purpose.

I suppose what I wanted to really get at is why did these so called millions of players never materialize, and why to this day, does SOE have a hard time attracting players? The MMORPG market is expanding exponentially every year thanks to WoW (etc etc), which should translate to new players who have no known connection to or grievance against SOE. MANY of those are likely Star Wars fans to some degree.

Like somebody posted earlier, Blizzard has it's share of haters as well, yet continues to gain buttloads of new subscribers everyday. Why can't SOE?

Could it be that EVERY ONE of those newbie MMO players come through the mmorpg.com disgruntled vet forums before shelling out cash to SOE?

OR, as somebody has mentioned earlier, have they all tried it already... and the game is just not good.

 

 

  User Deleted
1/05/10 7:17:44 PM#12


Originally posted by Jixx
SOE needs to own its failure and the fanbois need to stop blaming SOEs failure on the vets. 

/HanSolo "It's not My Fault!"

  Warmaker

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/04/07
Posts: 2240

1/06/10 3:54:20 AM#13

Kinda late to this.  But I picked "All of the above"

The Disgruntled Vets - Sure thing!  Either through forums (official or not) and of course in other MMO in-game chats.  A great example is MMO discussions while in the game.  When people talk about bad MMOs, SWG frequently is brought up.  The funny thing is that there's a bit of "... it was good up until they ________."

Current Community - Not so much the current players themselves.  It's just that SOE destroyed the once far larger, very active player community that used to exist.  The CU killed a noticeable amount, but the NGE hit the playerbase like a dinosaur-killing asteroid.  LOTS of trust was lost.  Let's say SOE *somehow, someway* implements Pre-CU servers with newest content adjusted for the original system.  How many would actually come back from that old playerbase?  Not me.  Burned me good already years back, and not forking over money to get screwed again by that same company.

The game itself being crappy - CU implementation left alot to be desired and was not what I thought it'd be.  But the NGE made the game inferior in so many different ways.  By design and intent.

And as for the link provided earlier from someone about the o-board post blaming the players that left... please, WE didn't implement the horrible NGE.  WE didn't want a stripped down, dumbed down game.  WE did not betray the trust.  WE did not see our community as expendable to chase some other magical, larger, non-existent playerbase.  And WE did not feel like sticking around a wrecked MMO and still PAY for it.

SOE did all that, not us.  We just left when those monkeys ran the ship into a huge iceberg... on purpose, and told us to like it or leave.

I can go on and on about SOE, but I also know Lucasarts had a hand in this.  I can go on about LA also, since those worthless monkeys have been inept since 1999.

"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)

  kzaske

Novice Member

Joined: 9/28/09
Posts: 515

1/06/10 4:08:56 AM#14

In a word, SONY.  I don't trust them. 

  tman5

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/24/07
Posts: 612

1/06/10 7:34:09 AM#15

It is a combination of factors, in varying and changing degrees.

 

At first, disgruntled vets, reacting to a seriously poor plan and even poorer execution, raised enough ruckus to be heard by the national media.  That was unthinkable at the time and certainly took SOE and LA by surprise.  Their suits were in full damage control mode for months.  We let the gamng community know very clearly what was done to us and what we felt about it and it looked very bad on SOE/LA.  Very.  Bad.  Whether they had valid reasons for the NGE was completely immaterial;  they could not shake the appearance of being a couple of greedy companies dissing existing paying customers in hopes of gaining even more moola.  Other gamers were left to ponder what might happen to them and their efforts in-game should they trust this team.  Certainly, that granted some percentage of the prospective playerbase pause.

 

While the game has arguably improved, it started off in such terrible condition after the NGE that by the time it got to a playable state (again, arguably) interest had waned.  Eventually, the vet cries morphed into so much noise.  In fact, I have anecdotal evidence that perceived vet "whining" had pushed some gamers to try SWG.  But the current game could not hold against other offerings, even to those gamers who have no idea what SWG once was.   There are simply better games at the same price point.  As many have said, the game itself is its own example why not to play.

 

In my few efforts back at SWG, I have not found much "community" to speak of.  That may not be a fair assessment, as my longest stretch since NGE was one month, but I have not found anything close to even the player community you could find on WoW.  If that's a negative, I cannot say.  Certainly isn't a plus.

  Robsolf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/21/06
Posts: 4027

Let go of my ears, I know what I'm doing!

1/06/10 7:55:56 AM#16

In its efforts to fix what they've screwed up, they've spent most their resources rebuilding the game instead of improving on what was already there.  Meanwhile, other MMO's have been improving their game and are now light years ahead in gameplay, content, and quality.

SWG is a hybrid 3ps with a Neverwinter Nights type gaming engine, and the effect is disastrous.  It will never work so well as a game that has the right engine for the right gameplay.

SWG provides an experience that barely competes with ftp games, let alone ptp.  Thus, its main demographic is people who can't get enough of Star Wars, but don't like MMO's enough to try anything else.  And even those people it craps on by raping the continuity of the IP.

I have no real veteran anger.  I'm not one of those folks that looks back fondly with rose colored glasses at pre-cu SWG.  But the gaming engine worked correctly for it's own gameplay, which automatically makes it a better game than it is, today.  And no amount of legacy quests or phat loot is going to help a game that's "not comfortable in its own skin(engine)".

  darkax

Novice Member

Joined: 3/08/09
Posts: 9

1/06/10 8:14:22 AM#17

I have been coming to this site for some time, and i think this is the first time i ever posted anything.  I played swg for sometime, never a vet, but not a noob either, i think the game was fun which is why i came back to it time and time again.  The problem for me was that the graphical errors made it almost unplayable, like shooting something, then it shows its dead, but the thing is still standing there, cant loot or anything, or some other cases showed the thing standing there "dead" then all of a sudden 15-20 seconds later it falls over, then you can loot.  Another issue i had was at the beginning when you are on the station when you take the shuttle to the planet, a lot of times it would just leave me in the middle of space not able to move or anything else.  So for me that is why swg has failed (coming from a casual player).

edit: nope see there second post ever!

  Kazara

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/20/06
Posts: 1069

"Denial does not change reality."

1/06/10 8:47:09 AM#18
Originally posted by Warmaker

Kinda late to this.  But I picked "All of the above"

The Disgruntled Vets - Sure thing!  Either through forums (official or not) and of course in other MMO in-game chats.  A great example is MMO discussions while in the game.  When people talk about bad MMOs, SWG frequently is brought up.  The funny thing is that there's a bit of "... it was good up until they ________."

Current Community - Not so much the current players themselves.  It's just that SOE destroyed the once far larger, very active player community that used to exist.  The CU killed a noticeable amount, but the NGE hit the playerbase like a dinosaur-killing asteroid.  LOTS of trust was lost.  Let's say SOE *somehow, someway* implements Pre-CU servers with newest content adjusted for the original system.  How many would actually come back from that old playerbase?  Not me.  Burned me good already years back, and not forking over money to get screwed again by that same company.

The game itself being crappy - CU implementation left alot to be desired and was not what I thought it'd be.  But the NGE made the game inferior in so many different ways.  By design and intent.

And as for the link provided earlier from someone about the o-board post blaming the players that left... please, WE didn't implement the horrible NGE.  WE didn't want a stripped down, dumbed down game.  WE did not betray the trust.  WE did not see our community as expendable to chase some other magical, larger, non-existent playerbase.  And WE did not feel like sticking around a wrecked MMO and still PAY for it.

SOE did all that, not us.  We just left when those monkeys ran the ship into a huge iceberg... on purpose, and told us to like it or leave.

I can go on and on about SOE, but I also know Lucasarts had a hand in this.  I can go on about LA also, since those worthless monkeys have been inept since 1999.


 

This. Well said Warmaker.

Word of mouth is a strong consumer tool. Don't balme the consumer for a faulty, substandard product/service. A bad reputation is earned and it takes effort to repair it - something $OE apparently has no interest in doing.

  xanphia

Novice Member

Joined: 9/28/09
Posts: 694

1/06/10 8:49:47 AM#19
Originally posted by 0over0

Plenty of people hate WoW, it seems to do pretty well with subs.

People make up their own minds about products/services--all being vocal does is give it more attention, so more people try it and find out for themselves.

 

WoW also has huge marketing campaigns.

 

Word of mouth, especially from other consumers is a huge tool whether in favor or against an item or idea.

  kefkah

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/04
Posts: 851

1/06/10 8:50:23 AM#20

This thread is probably one of the more valid and interesting reads I have seen here in a long while.  The point about WoW's subs versus the amount of hate and complaints is a ringer. I know a nearly equal amount of people who love the game to the amount that hate it. Forums constantly are filled with venom about the direction of the game. Yet, 12 million and climbing.

The point about SOE's biggest sin is one of my personal mantras. The people who paid and were loyal were treated like they were expendable. I could metaphor it all day but it wouldn't matter - it comes down to real subscription base versus an imaginary one. NGE can be spun all day long but it comes down to the fact that they wanted WoW numbers (not a sin per se) but sacrificed a healthy community to do it (there is your sin). Like stated earlier - money that was paid in good faith by people thinking that it was going towards future content and towards the advancement of their profession (/ranger salute) was wasted on an overhaul nobody wanted or asked for. The cries across the forums were for content, bug fixing and balance - not for a game replacement with no chance of opting for an alternative.

To show just how messed up the NGE was and how "to hell with the client" SOE was - they didn't even offer a single classic server when they brought the NGE online. You know, I would wager that the sub rates would have been quite respectable on that server and forced SOE's hand into adding more and then making NGE the minority.

Anyway, to respond to the whole "disgruntled vet" conspiracy - that is a cop out. Blaming the failure of a contraversial and lesser product on the people who would have simply preferred a choice is shortsighted and obtuse.

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