Personally, The thing I hate about this is not the pittance they donated, or that it was a blatant 'cash grab' that nDoors did...

It's the fact that griefers on the internet will rant about anything..

Say a random company asked players to opt into a program to have a higher monthly fee, the extra going to 'random charities'... We'd have several thousand people who were subscribed complaining about 'using charity to get more of our money'... with more than half of them possibly not in the opt-in group.

What I hate is that people seem to live to cause grief on the internet. People who seem to cry 'Scrooge' for the fact that the rich businessman is giving some money to charity over Christmas, ignoring the fact he's even giving something. People don't give a shit that the griefers won...

Congratulations, assholes. Will love to know what nDoors will do with that 5% of sales now you made their attempt to show a bit of Christmas spirit go 'poof'. If they keep it, you'll say they always were. If they find a new charity, you'll make that one pull out. It's the law of the internet.

And it stinks.

All this garbage about, "Now Child's Play looses out on 5%" is complete, utter ignorance.

The truth is that Child's Play is an NFP (not for profit). NFP's are scrutinized all the time simply because the true definition of an NFP means that the corporation does not retain profits (unless in specific tax shelters as assets or liabilities) and has no cash value or dividends for share holders. That leaves room for "questionable" NFP's to give a large salary to its executive officers as they no longer need to worry about share holders. Most of the people who sit on the boards of an NFP sit on several boards of other NFPs. It's a very large intertwined circle that revolves completely around social networking and image.

If Child's Play took a 5% donation for items that were solely created for the purpose of charity or even an impression that they were - that would be bad PR for Child's Play. They would appear to be endorsing a new product for increased revenue gains that profit nDoors. Questions would instantly arise to see if anyone on the board or executive officers of Child's Play had any kind of compensation (i.e. Kickback) or relationship to "gift" a contract to another company.

Not to mention, think of how many people would not have donated directly to Childs Play for 100% donation because of the questionable intent. If they went through with this, I am sure that a lot of people would look elsewhere to donate their charity. Too often are people be scammed out of their money when donating to charities. Which is why any time you make a donation, you should know who you are donating to and how much of the donation actually get to where it's supposed to. In this case, how much of the 5% are going to gifts and how much are going into "operational expenses" (i.e. salaries and office expenses).

Originally posted by Kaelaan21

All this garbage about, "Now Child's Play looses out on 5%" is complete, utter ignorance.

 

The truth is that Child's Play is an NFP (not for profit). NFP's are scrutinized all the time simply because the true definition of an NFP means that the corporation does not retain profits (unless in specific tax shelters as assets or liabilities) and has no cash value or dividends for share holders. That leaves room for "questionable" NFP's to give a large salary to its executive officers as they no longer need to worry about share holders. Most of the people who sit on the boards of an NFP sit on several boards of other NFPs. It's a very large intertwined circle that revolves completely around social networking and image.

 

If Child's Play took a 5% donation for items that were solely created for the purpose of charity or even an impression that they were - that would be bad PR for Child's Play. They would appear to be endorsing a new product for increased revenue gains that profit nDoors. Questions would instantly arise to see if anyone on the board or executive officers of Child's Play had any kind of compensation (i.e. Kickback) or relationship to "gift" a contract to another company.

 

Not to mention, think of how many people would not have donated directly to Childs Play for 100% donation because of the questionable intent. If they went through with this, I am sure that a lot of people would look elsewhere to donate their charity. Too often are people be scammed out of their money when donating to charities. Which is why any time you make a donation, you should know who you are donating to and how much of the donation actually get to where it's supposed to. In this case, how much of the 5% are going to gifts and how much are going into "operational expenses" (i.e. salaries and office expenses).

Most NFP organizations do take profits from those who raised money for them by doing things such a bake sales, marathons, etc..Look at Feeding America, they are NFP but Food Network is raising money for them....Every NFP does this...and no one complains but when it become some MMO trying to help even if a little...everyone is up in arms. I don't see people telling Feeding America to pull from Food Network because they are big company. I don't see people telling March of Dimes to not do Marches to raise money when big businesses are behind them. It is a double standard and it is sick.

 I stopped playing this shit a lonnnnng time ago, i'm not saying it was a bad game. I'm saying that the game was soo good, it seemed to me like ndoors were trying to stuff up their throats by selling this and selling that. Making those who bought shit better in game and ofcourse, their wallets fatter. I hope ndoors burns in hell along with t heir money. This charity SCAM(yea, thats right) its a freaking SCAM is just unnaceptable. I saw this shit coming a mile away and its the first time i see a cash shop package go beyond $50 USD in any game. From now on, its all P2P games for me, i done with free games and their shitty cash shop and greedy owners. Happy New years folks! :)

Originally posted by twiggy550

Originally posted by Ozmodan

Originally posted by Lawllipops

 

 

Hello,

I am the Community Coordinator here at Ndoors Interactive Inc. In order to give some clarification on our promotion, we created a special item box for our players to have the opportunity to receive a desirable item within our game. As an added bonus, we would be donating 5% of our gross sales of this box to the Child’s Play charity. When we released this item we informed our players about which charity the proceeds would go to so that players who did not wish to participate by purchasing this item had the opportunity to donate to the charity directly.

The promotional item mall box in question included a group of in-game items which was gathered from our player’s feedback. This was created in order to give back to some of our users this holiday season. Players are neither required to purchase this item box to play our game, nor is it the only possible way of obtaining the items that are contained in this box.

We here at Ndoors Inc. wish to continue in keeping with the giving spirit and we will be continually giving back to charities on an annual basis. We are now working with our community in order to decide on a new charity so that the proceeds will benefit people in need.

Sincerely,

The Atlantica Online Team

 

 

To even admit you are part of this fiasco is hilarious.  Ndoors is without doubt the most despised company in the genre and this just reinforces that view.   

 

 

Sorry dude, but SOE is more despised in the genre than Ndoors will ever be.

And yet SOE doubles the players donations to Child's Play while NDoors tried 5%. Fascinating.

I don't get why some people always want to party with one or the other side when both sides clearly stink... G.Bush was your child hero heh?

Sooo why protest this.Let me break down what I see .Maybe you will agree , maybe you won't.

        Ndoors  is offering 5% of the GROSS earnings from the special box they are selling to Child's Play.That is 5% of what they make before taxes.Meaning that this money being donated is tax free to Child's play .Where as Ndoors will still have to pay taxes on the whole ammount they recieved.(Granted they will get a tax break on the donation.But this alone means that they are donating more than 5% of the actual money they get to keep.

        Ndoors has bills to pay also.1st they have to pay taxes on the money they make.Then there is overhead.I mean guys lets be real here.They probably pay out half if not much more of the money they make to keep this game running.This is how they make there money .So 5% turns into a larger ammount when you factor in taxes that Ndoors pays.Plus after it is said and done, who knows how much of this money they make is actual profit? For all we know 5% of the Gross earnings , may be close to how much Ndoors actual gets to keep after Taxes and overhead,staffing,equipment etc.So for people to think that 5% is bad , it may be more than you think and it is definately better than 0%.

          Which leads me to my closing thought.Now they get 0% .But Guess what .Ndoors is still going to sell that package I bet.And now they get more money.So the only company that wins here is Ndoors.This money could have helped someone.Heck it may have helped someone you know down the road.And in truth Ndoors doesn't really win either.Cuz it's player base has alienated a children's charity.They can't be at all happy about this with there company name dangling in the media.

         The people who actually wrote to Child's Play should be banned imo.But thats just me.

Originally posted by Zorvan01

Originally posted by twiggy550

Originally posted by Ozmodan

Originally posted by Lawllipops

 

 

Hello,

I am the Community Coordinator here at Ndoors Interactive Inc. In order to give some clarification on our promotion, we created a special item box for our players to have the opportunity to receive a desirable item within our game. As an added bonus, we would be donating 5% of our gross sales of this box to the Child’s Play charity. When we released this item we informed our players about which charity the proceeds would go to so that players who did not wish to participate by purchasing this item had the opportunity to donate to the charity directly.

The promotional item mall box in question included a group of in-game items which was gathered from our player’s feedback. This was created in order to give back to some of our users this holiday season. Players are neither required to purchase this item box to play our game, nor is it the only possible way of obtaining the items that are contained in this box.

We here at Ndoors Inc. wish to continue in keeping with the giving spirit and we will be continually giving back to charities on an annual basis. We are now working with our community in order to decide on a new charity so that the proceeds will benefit people in need.

Sincerely,

The Atlantica Online Team

 

 

To even admit you are part of this fiasco is hilarious.  Ndoors is without doubt the most despised company in the genre and this just reinforces that view.   

 

 

Sorry dude, but SOE is more despised in the genre than Ndoors will ever be.

 

And yet SOE doubles the players donations to Child's Play while NDoors tried 5%. Fascinating.

Fascinating indeed. While that's fantastic for SOE, their dubious award won't be going away any time soon.

Originally posted by Pryetta

 

Most NFP organizations do take profits from those who raised money for them by doing things such a bake sales, marathons, etc..Look at Feeding America, they are NFP but Food Network is raising money for them....Every NFP does this...and no one complains but when it become some MMO trying to help even if a little...everyone is up in arms. I don't see people telling Feeding America to pull from Food Network because they are big company. I don't see people telling March of Dimes to not do Marches to raise money when big businesses are behind them. It is a double standard and it is sick.

It's actually the other way around. NFPs do not make a profit. Anything that is left over in the NFPs wallet needs to be placed in a tax shelter designed for NFPs, spent on capital or expenses (i.e. salary). Food Network is not an NFP. However, Feeding America is a NFP. Food Network makes a profit. Feeding America does not. Food Network informs viewers that it donates a certain amount of procedes to Feeding America. The rest of the procedes are considered gross profit.

The difference between the above and the nDoors issue is that nDoors claimed to have made certain items that are exclusive for the charitable event. When this happens and a portion of the procedes are held as profit - it makes people raise an eyebrow and wonder if Child's Play is just selling it's name to help market someone elses product. Usually when this happens, there are hidden financial incentives that are not disclosed (i.e. Kickbacks). It happens all the time.

An example of how bad it could be. Let's say I sit on a board of an NFP organization called Smile Play. Someone approaches me from a company, let's call mDoors for the sake of argument. mDoors creates a product for their item mall and wants to use my NFP as a way to drum up publicity. Some very nice free advertising. The item they are offering is an exclusive item and they expect about 2 million dollar return in their investment. For this, my NFP, Smile Play, will get a nice $100,000 payed in quarterly installments over the course of one year. Because mDoors really wants this new revenue, they need to woo me. Now, I happen to sit on an NFP board (board of electives) and I am not allowed to be paid any form of compensation. Only executives and employees are allowed to be paid in an NFP. This means that being on the board of an NFP organization is not my job. It's something that I do to network with other big wigs and we go out once every month and have a dinner and discuss issues and feedback from the executives. Meanwhile, I still have a day job. What do I do as a day job? Well, I own my own IT company. It is definately a for-profit corporation and it's also a cut throat business. mDoors knows this. So, mDoors mentions that with their increased revenue of 2 million that it will open up a budget to cover a needed 250 thousand dollar service contract that they will happily give to me. That is if I decide to allow Smile Play to endorse them. This means that I just profited 12.5% of the contributions that go directly in my wallet. This does happen and it happens more often than you think. Most NFP organization board members actively sit on several NFP boards at one time. It's a very exclusive social club for people that are usually of executive level or major stock holders of very profitable corporations.

On the March of Dimes comment - The contributions made to to the March of Dimes by the large corporations are 100%. This differs from the bake sale example you gave. If I owned my own bake shop and I made an exclusive muffin for the Girl Scouts (with their logo on it) one of the stipulations that most NFPs have is that although I can pay my employees for the time to bake the muffin and the ingredients used in the muffin - my company cannot make a profit on the muffin. This means any sales revenue of the muffin will not make company grow or end up in my pocket. There is a clear difference.

Originally posted by Kaelaan21

Originally posted by Pryetta

 

Most NFP organizations do take profits from those who raised money for them by doing things such a bake sales, marathons, etc..Look at Feeding America, they are NFP but Food Network is raising money for them....Every NFP does this...and no one complains but when it become some MMO trying to help even if a little...everyone is up in arms. I don't see people telling Feeding America to pull from Food Network because they are big company. I don't see people telling March of Dimes to not do Marches to raise money when big businesses are behind them. It is a double standard and it is sick.

 

It's actually the other way around. NFPs do not make a profit. Anything that is left over in the NFPs wallet needs to be placed in a tax shelter designed for NFPs, spent on capital or expenses (i.e. salary). Food Network is not an NFP. However, Feeding America is a NFP. Food Network makes a profit. Feeding America does not. Food Network informs viewers that it donates a certain amount of procedes to Feeding America. The rest of the procedes are considered gross profit.

 

The difference between the above and the nDoors issue is that nDoors claimed to have made certain items that are exclusive for the charitable event. When this happens and a portion of the procedes are held as profit - it makes people raise an eyebrow and wonder if Child's Play is just selling it's name to help market someone elses product. Usually when this happens, there are hidden financial incentives that are not disclosed (i.e. Kickbacks). It happens all the time.

 

An example of how bad it could be. Let's say I sit on a board of an NFP organization called Smile Play. Someone approaches me from a company, let's call mDoors for the sake of argument. mDoors creates a product for their item mall and wants to use my NFP as a way to drum up publicity. Some very nice free advertising. The item they are offering is an exclusive item and they expect about 2 million dollar return in their investment. For this, my NFP, Smile Play, will get a nice $100,000 payed in quarterly installments over the course of one year. Because mDoors really wants this new revenue, they need to woo me. Now, I happen to sit on an NFP board (board of electives) and I am not allowed to be paid any form of compensation. Only executives and employees are allowed to be paid in an NFP. This means that being on the board of an NFP organization is not my job. It's something that I do to network with other big wigs and we go out once every month and have a dinner and discuss issues and feedback from the executives. Meanwhile, I still have a day job. What do I do as a day job? Well, I own my own IT company. It is definately a for-profit corporation and it's also a cut throat business. mDoors knows this. So, mDoors mentions that with their increased revenue of 2 million that it will open up a budget to cover a needed 250 thousand dollar service contract that they will happily give to me. That is if I decide to allow Smile Play to endorse them. This means that I just profited 12.5% of the contributions that go directly in my wallet. This does happen and it happens more often than you think. Most NFP organization board members actively sit on several NFP boards at one time. It's a very exclusive social club for people that are usually of executive level or major stock holders of very profitable corporations.

 

On the March of Dimes comment - The contributions made to to the March of Dimes by the large corporations are 100%. This differs from the bake sale example you gave. If I owned my own bake shop and I made an exclusive muffin for the Girl Scouts (with their logo on it) one of the stipulations that most NFPs have is that although I can pay my employees for the time to bake the muffin and the ingredients used in the muffin - my company cannot make a profit on the muffin. This means any sales revenue of the muffin will not make company grow or end up in my pocket. There is a clear difference.

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/9/index/451712 <--Yet no one has gone to Child's Play about Bioware...I guess because Bioware is different and they are giving all the money to them I believe.

Originally posted by Pryetta

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/9/index/451712 <--Yet no one has gone to Child's Play about Bioware...I guess because Bioware is different and they are giving all the money to them I believe.

100% of the proceeds from the auction are going to Child's Play. The big difference is that the winner of the auction is getting a giant banner (signed by each member), each collector's edition (signed by the team), lithographs, a shield, comics, and more. That must have been pretty expensive for them, yet the only money being deducted out of the auction is going to Ebay's required deductions. Bioware is actually taking a loss (Not a big one for a company, but a nicely sized one nonetheless) for all the physical items they had to have created.

No one will raise stink about Bioware because there is nothing to raise stink over. We trust the company has good intentions, and that they're not secretly taking a bit off the top for themselves. 

Meanwhile, who are nDoors? One of the couple thousand cookie cutter Korean "free to play" item mall developers? From what I've seen researching this over the past couple days, people already don't trust nDoors. Not because the game is bad, but because of the random grab-bags sold in the item shop.

Originally posted by Omali

Originally posted by Pryetta

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/9/index/451712 <--Yet no one has gone to Child's Play about Bioware...I guess because Bioware is different and they are giving all the money to them I believe.

100% of the proceeds from the auction are going to Child's Play. The big difference is that the winner of the auction is getting a giant banner (signed by each member), each collector's edition (signed by the team), lithographs, a shield, comics, and more. That must have been pretty expensive for them, yet the only money being deducted out of the auction is going to Ebay's required deductions. Bioware is actually taking a loss (Not a big one for a company, but a nicely sized one nonetheless) for all the physical items they had to have created.

No one will raise stink about Bioware because there is nothing to raise stink over. We trust the company has good intentions, and that they're not secretly taking a bit off the top for themselves. 

Meanwhile, who are nDoors? One of the couple thousand cookie cutter Korean "free to play" item mall developers? From what I've seen researching this over the past couple days, people already don't trust nDoors. Not because the game is bad, but because of the random grab-bags sold in the item shop.

Not a big loss? That is four thousand dollars...that is what it closed at...not .99 cents like it started out at...but really. No one trusts nDoors, we get that...but what about the people raising a stink over Blizzard and their fund raising? I thought Blizzard was trusted as well...then again it might be the Activision part of Bliizard people don't like.

Originally posted by Pryetta

Not a big loss? That is four thousand dollars...that is what it closed at...not .99 cents like it started out at...but really. No one trusts nDoors, we get that...but what about the people raising a stink over Blizzard and their fund raising? I thought Blizzard was trusted as well...then again it might be the Activision part of Bliizard people don't like.

Because.... Blizzard made the item specifically to profit from and is only using the "portion of procedes" crap as a way to get people to buy a product from them, which they will make a sizable profit from. Something that probably only took about 10-20k to develop in terms of man hours applied to their monstrous staff.

If Blizzard donated all procedes before Jan. 1st for the purchase of those items - people would be singing a completely different tune. They aren't. Also, I think they you may not understand the difference between a charitable auction and a commercial product that has a portion of it's profits is donated to charity.

There are people out there that make a good amount of money by using language to their advantage. For example, I could sell pink T-Shirts with cute random sayings on them for $10 each. Advertise that "A portion of the procedes from the purchase of these shirts will be donated to Breast Cancer Research Foundation". People tend to get all mushy about that stuff and will pick one or two up just to feel better about themselves. Sure, I will make a donation of 10 cents for every shirt that I sell. The shirt only costs me $2 each from some third world country in low quantities. So, I make $7.90 for every shirt that I sell to some sucker with soft spot. I'll even come up with some website that plays sad music and shows pictures of young girls who have died of breast cancer. What's the difference? In the case of nDoors, the cost compared to revenue is much, much less. So, it means that they make off with even more money that the pink shirt scam.

Originally posted by Archemorous

Just goes to show that some people will complain about the sky being blue. And those people should be put on a spaceshuttle and be shot into the sun.

Just goes to show that some people are money grubbing bastards who'll use the guise of charity to pour money into their pockets. And other people are so incredibly short-sighted that they actually defend these greasy practices.

Thats a decidated MMo gamer right there.. Will stop even a chairty for children if it means tey wont be "uber l33t"  anymore.

Sad

sad

Sick world

Originally posted by GTwander

I don't think a charity is going to give a shit where it gets money from - they are only afraid that the idiot peoples sending them hate mail will target them next for accepting the money. Ridiculous how people actually sent them messages saying "don't take it, it's a scam, boogey boogey", only to have these people think "well shit, maybe these crazy players will come after us next and try to defraud our organization over blatant BS too".

Of course it matters where the money comes from. I have a feeling a charity working for Children wouldn't accept money from child labor companies, or perhaps companies making landmines (which children are known to find while playing)..

For some absurd reason, I actually think Charities have a conscience and won't accept just any kind of money.

I normally avoid going through such company offers and give my money directly to the charity I want to help. This way I know they get all the money.

I suggest people simply give money directly to Child's Play :)

Originally posted by Longswd

For those who want to say that 5% is better than nothing, well yes, it is. The problem of course, as has been pointed out, is that 5% is such a meager pittance that it can only be classified as a blatant attempt to *USE* a good charity as a *VEHICLE* to enrich your own coffers.

My personal measure of the glass being considered half full (doing a good deed) or half empty (being a self-serving d-bag), is the 50% mark. The glass is 5% full, 95% empty. The so-called charitable gesture is as morally bankrupt and transparent as the foregoing glass, AND THAT is why people are reacting negatively to it.

Apparently, Child's Play doesn't much care to be played for a fool and pulled out. No amount of complaints would have caused them to take this action had they not felt similarly.

For NDOORS to then try to lay blame on those who pointed this out to Child's Play is just the reprehensible icing on the shit cake.

I recently purchased a vanity pet in EQ2 with 50% of the proceeds going to Child's Play, so I do practice what I espouse. Had the contribution been anything less than 50%, I would not have bought it and instead would have sent money directly to CP. Which is great option for anyone who still feels that 5% is better than nothing.

 

 

Exactly. Those who are saying "5% is better than nothing!" are like people who would say "well, that guy mugged you a beat the crap out of you? Don't bother going to the police because it's better than him killing you!"

Originally posted by Ozmodan

Don't see Ndoors complaining, they get the extra 5%!  Sounds like they were in the only winners in this scenario.  Advertising something as going to charity and then turning around and not doing it seems to be like they are breaking some laws.  Perhaps some attorney general's need to look into this situation.

Personally I find Ndoors one of the more greedy producers in this genre.  I don't play their games and advise any one else to avoid them too.

 

That may be the case if they weren't "asked to leave the charity."  As in asked to not contribute at all, which is peculiar IMO. That makes me think they were slandered in some way by this hate mail. Which resulted in the charity not wanting their contribution, if that's the case I can see why they would point out the reasons "why". Maybe the mail stated exactly what they were doing and how they were getting these donations, in turn they (the charity) weren't happy about that.

Originally posted by Kaelaan21

Originally posted by lawnmowerman

Orrrrr......instead of being greedy fucks and involving some cashscam in the whole thing, ndoors could just make a donation? Nonsense to do something asblatantly obviously greedy and self serving as this, try to pass it off as charity, then put the owness on the players when they call bullshit.

Blizz just pulled the same shit. Its crap. 

 

"charity" should not involve the company "being charitable" making a pile of  money off it. Luckily, most people aren't too dense to see this kind of scheme for what it is....though, obviously , there are those dense few.

 

Yeah.. but even Blizz donated 50% of the revenue for these items. To me, 50% of the procedes does show good intention. 5% is simply an attempt to gain free advertising and a false incentive for players to actually buy the items.

It was 50% off ONE of the pets and it was the pet that was the worst of the two. And the 50% to charity was only for a month or two. The reason why the other pet was better because it killed "critters" for you which is an achievement (kill 30 specific critters). Blizzard got a lot of flack over it as well.

First off I wish to defend Child's Play's decision to remove AO NDoors from advertising for their charity after receiving bad emails from AO's own player base. Charities are run off of GOOD word of mouth. They do not have the luxury of having a few shakey deals especially publically. Registered charities jump through hoops to get their charities approved and their charity number. They then seek the holy grail of which all charities dream of for sustainability: A Large Well Known Corporate Sponsor.  They then must keep their noses clean to maintain their corporate sponsors and their official charity status.  Child's Play is an organization that seeks to bring games to children stuck in hospital convalescing over long periods of time. Many of these children will never be able to play outside. But just as games bring enjoyment to us here on this forum, so do they help to bring a smile, a welcome distraction and a sense of normalicy to children who have  lesser circumstances then most.

Individual donations account for very little of the operating costs for any charity. It is in fact big business that keeps them going. Why would a business wish to support a charity? Well it is good advertising, for BOTH the charity and the company. It is also a tax write off. It improves your corporate image. It improves corporate morale giving the employees a rewarding challenge to fundraising drives and the feeling of inclusiveness. And maybe those big ol'boys sitting at the executive desks have a kid or a niece who benefited from the charity and they wish to give back. What ever the reasons... it is money that is given to help others.

You can say that the 5% was too little an amount, but this was most likely AO's first attempt to donate to charity and were being conservative either worried they would loose profit or uncertain how it would all work out.  Sometimes going too big can be even more harmful as what if their servers couldn't handle the transactions and crashed or if they lost too much money and were unable to make good on their promises. Even baby steps are steps in the right direction. Sony and BLizzard are much large companies that have done other charitable drives and know the ropes.

What was the real outcome of all of this... Well the BEST one was that Child's Play is in the news, is being spoken of, and is now known by all of you.  The worst is that AO/NDoors may likely never attempt to partner on another charitable drive.

PS I work as a nurse and have seen many charities at work, from the individual celebrity that walks in to cheer up the patients, to the giant McDonalds Play room, and even the grannies that knit little hats for the premies in NICU. There is always a place for people to give, no matter how great or small. And no matter the size of the contribution we are always thankful, as it wouldn't happen without the effort.