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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » The 'Group Play vs Solo Play in an MMO' Thread

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2099 posts found
  VengeSunsoar

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4718

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

4/11/13 1:44:31 PM#1781
I think every MMO ever has offered full group progression.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  tats27

Novice Member

Joined: 1/21/13
Posts: 76

4/27/13 2:04:49 AM#1782

I too miss the day of forced grouping. I WANT to play in groups, but when the path is as easy to go alone most people can't be bothered to group up. Newer MMOs should at least offer greater rewards or benefits for group content. Let people who want to solo kill 1,000 scoprions and get to mac lvl in 24 hours. 

I want it to be difficult and  take months and feel like an accomplishment when I get there.

Give me and updated HD version of EQ or FFXI anyday.

  ReeseFlamelocks

Novice Member

Joined: 2/21/10
Posts: 42

4/27/13 2:46:05 AM#1783
The key for a game is to incorporate both solo and group play but make them BOTH pertinent to the progression of the character and the world as a whole.

Played: UO, DAoC, Shadowbane, DDO, LOTRO, Aion, Rift, TERA
Sampled: WoW, AoC, GW2, Vanguard, FF XIV, Neverwinter
Playing: ESO

  VengeSunsoar

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4718

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

4/28/13 2:46:30 AM#1784
Originally posted by tats27

I too miss the day of forced grouping. I WANT to play in groups, but when the path is as easy to go alone most people can't be bothered to group up. Newer MMOs should at least offer greater rewards or benefits for group content. Let people who want to solo kill 1,000 scoprions and get to mac lvl in 24 hours. 

 

They do.  Grouping gives more xp, faster xp, more coin and better loot.

No you don't need to group for everything, but you didn't in old games either.  In new games grouping is largely for dungeons, end game and raids.

However it does, even during leveling, give significantly better rewards.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  UsualSuspect

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/01/04
Posts: 1216

4/28/13 2:22:24 PM#1785
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

They do.  Grouping gives more xp, faster xp, more coin and better loot.

No you don't need to group for everything, but you didn't in old games either.  In new games grouping is largely for dungeons, end game and raids.

However it does, even during leveling, give significantly better rewards.

In modern MMO's it's actually a bad thing to get faster xp, unless you really are in some rush to end game. MMO's now are more about the story, which can easily be missed if you gather more xp than normal, meaning you either skip parts of the story or go through them but gain absolutely nothing from them.

Let's face it, modern MMO's are just really poorly designed. The devs want to make a single player game but have been forced into making an MMO, so they add grouping and multiplayer sections as an afterthought rather than as a main point of the game.

  Cephus404

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/08
Posts: 3604

4/28/13 2:52:52 PM#1786
Originally posted by UsualSuspect

In modern MMO's it's actually a bad thing to get faster xp, unless you really are in some rush to end game. MMO's now are more about the story, which can easily be missed if you gather more xp than normal, meaning you either skip parts of the story or go through them but gain absolutely nothing from them.

The vast majority of players *DO* want to rush to endgame, so how is it a bad thing to give the players what they want?

Let's face it, modern MMO's are just really poorly designed. The devs want to make a single player game but have been forced into making an MMO, so they add grouping and multiplayer sections as an afterthought rather than as a main point of the game.

They're not badly designed except for people who don't want to play them.  Designers are making games to appeal to the vast majority of people who play them.  You seem to think they ought to force everyone to group, a completely niche element, slow down, a completely niche element, and that will only succeed in driving most MMOs into bankruptcy because most people won't pay for a game like that.

Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None

  VengeSunsoar

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4718

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

4/28/13 4:48:08 PM#1787
Originally posted by UsualSuspect
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

They do.  Grouping gives more xp, faster xp, more coin and better loot.

No you don't need to group for everything, but you didn't in old games either.  In new games grouping is largely for dungeons, end game and raids.

However it does, even during leveling, give significantly better rewards.

In modern MMO's it's actually a bad thing to get faster xp, unless you really are in some rush to end game. MMO's now are more about the story, which can easily be missed if you gather more xp than normal, meaning you either skip parts of the story or go through them but gain absolutely nothing from them.

Let's face it, modern MMO's are just really poorly designed. The devs want to make a single player game but have been forced into making an MMO, so they add grouping and multiplayer sections as an afterthought rather than as a main point of the game.

You know, I actually don't really disagree with.

I do think many are rushing to end game, for whatever reason (totally diffeent topic) and many MMO's are about the story which IMO makes rushing even sillier.

I do agree that there are many parts of MMO's that are poorly designed, we likely disagree with what parts those are. I'm not sure if they want to make a single player game or not.  I do think that they are trying to find a way to have grouping be significant and usefull while still having soloing as an option, unfortunatley it is a trial and error approach (not many other ways it could be).

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  UsualSuspect

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/01/04
Posts: 1216

5/05/13 3:55:56 AM#1788

I now believe solo play has sucked the soul out of the MMO genre. I've gone from game to game and they're all the same thing, all single player online games with multiplayer as an afterthought, all quest hub to quest hub, run back and fore, bash monsters with the power of a superhero. Take away the challenge and you're left with something that's incredibly dry and shallow.

I went from The Secret World, which is good but is still a solo quest grind, with only end of area dungeons for multiplayer content. Jumped out of there to try the Guild Wars 2 free weekend, found again the single player quest grind, went from there to try out the trial of Rift, which has to be the worst MMO I've ever played. Seriously, they give you flashy QUEST COMPLETE messages and sparkles and booms and whistles, just for walking down the road to the next quest giver? Seriously?! That's marked as an accomplishment these days?

And then I tried Neverwinter, which is more of the same, an unstoppable superhero facing down dungeons full of badguys, with barely a sniff of multiplayer to be found anywhere.

What a sad sorry state the MMO genre has turned into. How you soloers can actually enjoy this crap is beyond comprehension. Doesn't anyone like a challenge anymore? Or do they just like to do simple tasks and be patted on the back and awarded shinies for being a good boy?

Pathetic.

  VengeSunsoar

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4718

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

5/05/13 10:26:55 AM#1789

Solo play has has nothing to do with challenge.

There are challenges in all games.  Find something to easy, go to a harder area. 

edit - I will say that the increasing lack of challenging areas/tasks has made many games a tad dull.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  UsualSuspect

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/01/04
Posts: 1216

5/05/13 12:14:17 PM#1790
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Solo play has has nothing to do with challenge.

There are challenges in all games.  Find something to easy, go to a harder area. 

edit - I will say that the increasing lack of challenging areas/tasks has made many games a tad dull.

You can't really do that in these games though, as the majority of XP comes from quests. You can't just run off to a harder area and get new quests, these things make you either have to be a certain level, which can only be gained through quest XP, or complete the previous set of quests first. On top of that, they set your eqiupment as rewards for each quest along the path, so if you rush off you're going to end up gimping yourself due to lack of decent armour/weapons.

Hence, the name themepark. You're basically on a rollercoaster, heading straight down the path laid out for you. It's a horrible design and I hope it dies soon, it's taken the MMO genre backwards half a dozen steps instead of forward.

  CorvusCorax

Novice Member

Joined: 9/08/12
Posts: 38

5/09/13 6:32:36 PM#1791

Single player gameplay in a mmo makes no sense whatsoever. Why create a massively multiplayer game for people who dislike multiplayer gameplay? there is no logic behind that thought. Making a multiplayer game that focuses on single player gameplay makes no sense at all from a gameplay standpoint. What soloers need is not a mmo that is designed for them, they need to either play the games that are already single player or ask for a new genre that fits only them.

 

  Prepared

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/11/13
Posts: 87

5/09/13 7:42:01 PM#1792

I'm for multiboxing play where a player plays more than one account!

 

  Cephus404

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/08
Posts: 3604

5/11/13 9:53:35 PM#1793
Originally posted by CorvusCorax

Single player gameplay in a mmo makes no sense whatsoever. Why create a massively multiplayer game for people who dislike multiplayer gameplay? there is no logic behind that thought. Making a multiplayer game that focuses on single player gameplay makes no sense at all from a gameplay standpoint. What soloers need is not a mmo that is designed for them, they need to either play the games that are already single player or ask for a new genre that fits only them.

 

Because there is a difference between people who want to play around a lot of people, as most MMO players do, and those who want to play *WITH* a lot of people, as the majority of MMO players do not.  I'd be all for playing *WITH* people if there were a better class of players to play with, but there aren't, so I don't.

What others do is none of your damn business.

Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None

  MMOPapa

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/13
Posts: 121

There's a reason you can't spell Deadline without the word 'dead'.

5/11/13 10:49:42 PM#1794

It's funny because if you follow the history of our genre to it's very roots? From MMORPG back to RPG back to Table-Top? You would end up looking crazy as bat-sh*t playing table-top Dungeons and Dragons alone. You'd be talking to yourself pretending to be the Dungeon Master AND the Character at the same time...

 

But now? It's okay to look crazy. :)

  VengeSunsoar

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4718

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

5/12/13 12:37:15 AM#1795
Originally posted by MMOPapa

It's funny because if you follow the history of our genre to it's very roots? From MMORPG back to RPG back to Table-Top? You would end up looking crazy as bat-sh*t playing table-top Dungeons and Dragons alone. You'd be talking to yourself pretending to be the Dungeon Master AND the Character at the same time...

 

But now? It's okay to look crazy. :)

Well I guess it's a good thing that video games have virtually nothing in common with pnp games.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  MMOPapa

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/13
Posts: 121

There's a reason you can't spell Deadline without the word 'dead'.

5/12/13 1:32:05 AM#1796
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by MMOPapa

It's funny because if you follow the history of our genre to it's very roots? From MMORPG back to RPG back to Table-Top? You would end up looking crazy as bat-sh*t playing table-top Dungeons and Dragons alone. You'd be talking to yourself pretending to be the Dungeon Master AND the Character at the same time...

 

But now? It's okay to look crazy. :)

Well I guess it's a good thing that video games have virtually nothing in common with pnp games.

Actually they have quite a few similarities if you take the time to think about it... for example; the chance at rolling a ten or higher on a twenty-sided die is still nothing more than percentages; which is the foundation of multiple systems implemented into MMORPGs such as Chance To Hit, Crit, Block, Evade, Proc, etc. etc. The basis of Character Creation remains almost identical. Traps and what not still utilize tools or skills to disable them. The amount of spaces you could move versus movement speed. I mean... the list goes on and on. After all, it is undeniably our origin.

  VengeSunsoar

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4718

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

5/12/13 2:36:42 AM#1797

Yes it is undeniably our origin however they have diverged significantly.

This article talks about it a bit:

http://gdlab.net/?p=1

This as well:

http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=743

Just as some examples.

The record player is also an ancestor to an mp3 - both are storage devices for music.  But they are not the same.

Today you would still look crazy playing a pnp game by yourself.  In video games you don't.  Why?  Because they are undeniably different. 

And while I never played a pvp game myself (not significantly anyway, it just wasn't fun for me), my brother did a lot.  I did prep characters though.  Funnily enough to both of us, building characters was the most fun.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  MMOPapa

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/13
Posts: 121

There's a reason you can't spell Deadline without the word 'dead'.

5/12/13 3:19:36 AM#1798
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

... while I never played a pvp game myself ...

You don't know what you're missing! PVP is fun!

 

Lol, I know what you meant, I'm just being a dork. :3

  Cephus404

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/08
Posts: 3604

5/12/13 3:53:08 AM#1799
Originally posted by MMOPapa

It's funny because if you follow the history of our genre to it's very roots? From MMORPG back to RPG back to Table-Top? You would end up looking crazy as bat-sh*t playing table-top Dungeons and Dragons alone. You'd be talking to yourself pretending to be the Dungeon Master AND the Character at the same time...

 

But now? It's okay to look crazy. :)

Hate to say it, but TSR produced a line of D&D modules intended for solo play.  In case you didn't know...

Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None

  Cephus404

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/08
Posts: 3604

5/12/13 3:54:05 AM#1800
Originally posted by MMOPapa
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

... while I never played a pvp game myself ...

You don't know what you're missing! PVP is fun!

 

Yeah, not so much and I have played PvP games before and I detest them with a passion.

Your mileage may vary, of course.

 

Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None

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